He attended the by election as a representative for GB News and not the Tories. Says it all
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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As a non-Brit I need to ask this. What can trigger an election if a government doesn't call one by dissolving Parlament? Can Sunak and his Eton boys just squat on Nr 10 until the 5 years are up? Is there nothing the opposition can do to trigger one? More than anything I'm curious as to how much longer Britons have to endure this state of affairs.
Yes, they can squat until the 5 years are up. Only the Government has the legal power to call an election.
If they lose a vote of confidence (almost impossible) they still have no legal duty to call an election.
That's pretty sad. So basically, unless there's huge protests with outbreaks of civil unrest, you're stuck with the Tories until they want to lose their jobs, right?
Yes and given their majority they can give all their mates knighthoods, tax cuts, jobs on the board of the BBC etc before they go.
A government is elected for a certain time span. If the opposition had the power to call a new election whenever they wanted it would be hard to govern in a meaningful way ( seems like it is hard in the uk anyway...)
Yeah but the problem is it’s not a fixed date; if they want to call a snap election because the polls, by some miracle, suggests they might win they can. And then we end up stuck with them until they decide it’s in their interest to call another one (within five years)
I guess you can argue that an democratic elected government have a mandate to govern, for 5 years in this case, or until the next election. But I don't know, where I live a government is elected for 4 years, with a set date for the next election.
Oh I absolutely agree with that on principle. It's more about how much mismanagement and bad governance you can have before some instance/law steps in and tries to bring about meaningful change. In some countries the head of state can step in and call for a new government to be formed.
The FPTP system is what straddles UK politics and is self perpetuating.
A Tory government with a large majority of 80+ seats is coming to an end and is likely to be replaced by a Labour Government with a similar large majority. The hope is Labour will do a better job for the majority of the populace, but there is no guarantee.
'Events' (outside the governments control) as Harold Macmillan explained can be instrumental in ruining everything; as Suez did for Eden, Iraq for Blair (although he got 3 terms), Financial Crisis did for Brown, Brexit for Cameron and May, Covid for Boris; Liz Truss (for herself really) Money Markets; Small Boats for Sunak.
When Starmer takes over there are no shortage of internal issues, like cost of living, housing, NHS waiting lists/dentistry etc., but there are enormous external 'events,' Wars, those continuing (or further likely to break out) in eastern Europe, Middle-East, etc. mass migration on a hitherto unimaginable level, and of course dealing with climate change.
Why do we persist with a FPTP system? Because there is a 'gut' feeling, than when the country is facing crisis, or when sh** lands from a great height and we didn't see it coming (you can ask why again some other time), the government has to be able to act quickly and it is only with an overall majority (gained by FPTP) can this happen.
Where does this 'gut' feeling come from... law making based for centuries, mainly on precedent.
A Tory government with a large majority of 80+ seats is coming to an end and is likely to be replaced by a Labour Government with a similar large majority. The hope is Labour will do a better job for the majority of the populace, but there is no guarantee.
'Events' (outside the governments control) as Harold Macmillan explained can be instrumental in ruining everything; as Suez did for Eden, Iraq for Blair (although he got 3 terms), Financial Crisis did for Brown, Brexit for Cameron and May, Covid for Boris; Liz Truss (for herself really) Money Markets; Small Boats for Sunak.
When Starmer takes over there are no shortage of internal issues, like cost of living, housing, NHS waiting lists/dentistry etc., but there are enormous external 'events,' Wars, those continuing (or further likely to break out) in eastern Europe, Middle-East, etc. mass migration on a hitherto unimaginable level, and of course dealing with climate change.
Why do we persist with a FPTP system? Because there is a 'gut' feeling, than when the country is facing crisis, or when sh** lands from a great height and we didn't see it coming (you can ask why again some other time), the government has to be able to act quickly and it is only with an overall majority (gained by FPTP) can this happen.
Where does this 'gut' feeling come from... law making based for centuries, mainly on precedent.
Certainly.
The issue here however is that there's a conveyor belt of ever changing Tory PM's, with different agendas and representing different factions of the party. They aren't governing on the mandate from 2019. They are clinging on and squeezing every last penny they can before they're booted out.
Yes indeed. But he is already on a reputed £500k with GB News.
Rats leaving the sinking ship, or better the stinking ship.
I can't see the FPTP changing, certainly not in my lifetime because the British people like to know the result of the election almost immediately. And who has won. It is engrained in our psyche. And the most recent Tory/Liberals coalition was a disaster, especially for the liberals.
At least he's wasting those cnuts' money
Good point.
In a working democracy with independent press coverage, that sort of behavior should mean that said party will be out of government for a long period.
With how the uk looks from the outside I wouldn't be surprised to see the tories back in government before long though.
How was Iraq outside Blair's control? If you genuinely believe that you're unhinged. Same goes for Cameron with Brexit and Truss with whatever the feck that was. A competent and/or non-criminal leader doesn't make those mistakes. Problems of their own making. Small boats too tbh, shockingly enough closing the legal migration routes leads to illegal migration. He didn't start the calamitous handling of immigration but he is steering his small boat over the same cliff.
It shows the state of British politics can get a job like that on top of their MPs salary. Absolute joke.
My thoughts exactly. Cameron is the architect of Brexit, all because he knew that without that on the ballot, the Tories would lose seats to UKIP, split the vote and let in a Labour government. Suicidal recklessness.
So Labour will win the GE (because they're not quite the Tories). Tories will not win (because they're so awful) and Reform gain some Tory voters (because they're even worse than the Tories).
Exciting, isn't it?
Exciting, isn't it?
If you genuinely believe these matters were in the control of these people, then its you who are unhinged.
Blair got suckered into Iraq via Bush and WMD's, Cameron thought he was in control of both his party EU dissidents, and the country, until the Brexit result came in, and Truss thought she had got into her full blown Conservatism stride, only to find it was the money markets who were in control.
Unhinged is a good film.
Blair had to doctor an intelligence dossier to be released to the public to justify (a second!) illegal war FFS. There's also accounts of him being the one that persuaded Bush to go to war. It's a bit of an "I slipped over and fell arse first on to the ketchup bottle...again" to claim you had no agency in that!
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So true.
No, neither can I, unless the transient nature of recent elections i.e. large majority's for the winner followed by what is expected to be another wide range swing toward the former loser in the next GE. If this has a lasting effect in destabilizing then subsequent decoupling of elements within both of the larger parties, then who knows.
In the run up to 2019 GE the Labour move to the left with Corbyn coupled with Boris's success in the red wall areas on Brexit gave the Tories a 80+ majority. Then (in some cases almost immediately) the internal bickering, heightened by how Covid was tackled, raised old 'one nation conservatism' standards and now the 'pro-con' movement has raised it's flag and the subsequent internal divisions led to two new leaders, both elected by internal means only.
In a new Labour government with a similar large majority, the same sort of internal disputes may well arise, if particular groups hold sway. However it would appear that Starmer can see the dangers in this and is already taking action and perhaps he is preparing for his own 'night of the long knives' (made famous by Harold Macmillan in 1962).
Only time will tell.
Behave yourself!
Please tell me after WW2, the last time a UK PM persuaded a US President to go to War
At the age of 36, the Tories have been in power since the minute I really started to care about politics. I did beforehand and voted but I’m talking meaningful interest.
I'm going to stay up, watch and enjoy every single second of the next general election coverage. What a night that will be.
I'm going to stay up, watch and enjoy every single second of the next general election coverage. What a night that will be.
Jesus spoke to Tony Blair personally and told him to bomb a birth defects crisis into several generations of Iraqi children.
It's called white memory syndrome. It's the only way to handle centuries of apartheids and genocides, including current ones. Let it happen then doctor the history later.
And then say something about learning from history - which we just doctored of course.
When did you become so racist on the forum? keep seeing it. Bit troubling.
If there's any racism involved in what I said the poster I replied to can report me. In fact, you can report me. Mods going through these pages will infract or ban me.
I just recall you constantly bringing race in to discussions for some reason. You’ve been pulled a few times on it from memory.
What’s your deal?
There's no deal. Your opinion is yours and your welcome to it
I have no enthusiasm for Labour, and find them to be underwhelming , vacuous and uninspiring. But ultimately the Tories are so dangerous and so incompetent across the board, getting them out at the next election is just too important IMO. Another 5 years of Tory rule and chaos would be uttterly catastrophic for the country, public services etc. Plus I like my local Labour MP, and so am happy to vote for him personally. It's sad reality of British politics that many voters couldn't name who their local MP is without looking it up.
I wasn't old enough to remember the Tories being booted out in 1997 properly, but back then they had least had serious people like John Major and Ken Clarke at the helm. Clearly they were ndeeply unpopular given the scale of the defeat, but I can't imagine Major and Clarke were anywhere near as bad as the current Tory hierachy.
I wasn't old enough to remember the Tories being booted out in 1997 properly, but back then they had least had serious people like John Major and Ken Clarke at the helm. Clearly they were ndeeply unpopular given the scale of the defeat, but I can't imagine Major and Clarke were anywhere near as bad as the current Tory hierachy.
What we need is a leader with a brilliant 3 word slogan to really get us going
The Rwanda fiasco will be what puts Labour in power. If they’d thrown a dart at a board of Immigration policies and hit anything other than Rwanda you’d think they might still have a chance. Reform voters are done with the Tories and it’s not a protest on this occasion. The recession announcement was perfectly timed this week, as morbid as that is. Vocal social accounts within that part of the electorate are even reflecting on how everything else besides immigration is also a mess so if the Tories can’t be trusted on immigration they’re is literally nothing left for them. It’s mostly echo chamber bed wetting as I think they’re starting to realise that outside of their online bubble where their views are amplified and encouraged there are tens of millions of regular folks who are just ready for a change - it’s inevitable.
The Tories have completely snookered themselves on immigration.
Even dating back to when Cameron was their leader then and PM and May was their shadow home secretary and then home secretary, they've set completely unrealistic and unachieveable immigration targets, to keep their back-benchers, swivelled eye loon grass roots members and the gruesome, xenophobic right wing media outlets happy.
Their inevitable and repeated failure to come close to meeting their own targets, has angered many people on the right of the political spectrum that have supported them in the past. And of course the people on the left and centre of the spectrum that have despised their nasty rhetoric over the years (and to repeat that dates back to when Cameron was the PM and May was the home home secretary), me being one of them, are not going forgive them.
Reform want them to smashed to pieces at the next GE, so that they can influence their post-election rebuild. They'll be no pact, standing down of candidates as with the Brexit party in 2019 etc, that's for sure.
Even dating back to when Cameron was their leader then and PM and May was their shadow home secretary and then home secretary, they've set completely unrealistic and unachieveable immigration targets, to keep their back-benchers, swivelled eye loon grass roots members and the gruesome, xenophobic right wing media outlets happy.
Their inevitable and repeated failure to come close to meeting their own targets, has angered many people on the right of the political spectrum that have supported them in the past. And of course the people on the left and centre of the spectrum that have despised their nasty rhetoric over the years (and to repeat that dates back to when Cameron was the PM and May was the home home secretary), me being one of them, are not going forgive them.
Reform want them to smashed to pieces at the next GE, so that they can influence their post-election rebuild. They'll be no pact, standing down of candidates as with the Brexit party in 2019 etc, that's for sure.
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Im also 36 and it feels like our entire generation (and others) are now just completely lost to the tories. I can’t see myself ever voting for them. I don’t see how they recover from this and how they can possibly win back this section of the electorate.