When is the club going to call out this corruption?

cyberman

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Has anyone in the media even acknowledged the fact that Andre Marriner abused VAR in defiance of the rules to change a decision? VAR is not allowed to go "actually I think that should be a red, not a yellow." It's meant for instances where the ref doesn't see the incident, or makes a call that's completely at odds with what happened. The VAR official isn't allowed to use the technology to persuade the ref to change a call. That's literally not allowed. Marriner abused his position to feck us over (yet again) and I'm not hearing a single peep about that anywhere except here.
Yeah, I think it’s his the case now since they flagged the Arsenal goal being disallowed at OT. If the ref clearly sees it and makes a decision I don’t think VAR is meant to get involved. It’s why VAR didn’t get involved in Leicester v Chelsea
It doesn’t even make sense, the ref booked Casemiro for what? Where did he think Casemiro foot landed? He saw the same tackle and called it a yellow
 

pauldyson1uk

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This is shocking, our inability to beat the bottom of the table and its corruption, FFS are we now RAWK !
It's not corruption its just piss poor refs, piss poor VAR , refs seem to thing they can make the rules up as they go along.
 

11101

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The standard of refereeing is rank bad but there's little to no actual corruption or deliberate bias.

Something needs to be done though. I don't actually think Anthony Taylor did that much obviously wrong yesterday (all decisions marginal) but its the inconsistencies demonstrated week-in, week-out.

One thing is for sure, VAR hasnt helped at all when it comes to getting the right decision, bar with offsides
All VAR has done is highlight exactly how incompetent the referees are. The notion of corruption is childish at best but its definitely the case that referees look at the team they're officiating and think about the fallout from a decision; anything marginal given our way will be scrutinised but give it against us and youre golden, whereas it's the other way round for Liverpool.

Ever since that City goal every single marginal decision has gone against us and ETH needs to start talking about it.
 

big_jeffstar

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Match fixing is real and been going on for decades and for many leagues. You wouldn't realise it because it is very subtle and they don't do it every game. Only games with huge betting activity. E.g. World Cup final

This season feels different. Don't know if it is because of VAR but this season feels more like a hatchet job. Like someone trying to ruin the season. It's sickening to see.
I’ve been of the opinion that they create narratives to make the league more entertaining for a while now and they go out of their way to feed into it, like this season for example.. they end up with a “race for top four” and also a race for the top between pep and his protégé..you can see it happening a mile off, it’s all about creating drama
 

cyberman

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I’ve been of the opinion that they create narratives to make the league more entertaining for a while now and they go out of their way to feed into it, like this season for example.. they end up with a “race for top four” and also a race for the top between pep and his protégé..you can see it happening a mile off, it’s all about creating drama
https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/mark-cl...lan-to-infamous-chelsea-vs-spurs-clash-151688
Posters pretending it’s childish to call this out
 

Drizzle

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I dont think it's corruption. Incompetence definitely.
Well I think it's also a fear of having the ABU media crashing down on their heads if they give a 50/50 call to United. So I would say it's a form of bias, yes. Not corruption as such.
 

OldSchoolManc

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If people don’t accept it being called corruption, which is fair, then can they at least accept it being called selective bias?
 

antk

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I've seen people posting this but is this actually the case? Genuinely asking for my own knowledge. Not attempting to agree or disagree. Is this a law documented/stated somewhere?
Not at all. The IFAB rules state:
The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a 'clear and obvious error'.
Which says nothing about the ref not having seen the play. If the VAR refs consider the incident should be a red according to the rules and the field ref only gave a yellow, they're actually required to ask the field ref to review the play (after a conversation where both sides explain their reasoning).
 

Ludens the Red

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I'm sorry but of all the clubs to have benefited from referee calls over the decades Utd must be very very high on the list. This is a hilarious thread.

Meh one of footballs great myths. The thing with United is we won a lot of stuff. So most horrendous decisions that went against us would often be inconsequential or nobody outside United would care so it wouldn’t be big news.

Man Utd getting a contentious decision in their favour is headline news. The media know it. They know the average fan will lap it up and it’ll feed into their hysterical ness. May even get a panaroma special on it.

To give you a prime example. In 2005 spurs scored a legit goal at old Trafford that passed the line but not given. Linesman was too far away to see … but anyway, that decision probably stopped spurs from finishing 10th and instead they finished 11th. That call spawned so much outrage and discussion for years.

In 2010 didier drogba stood about 500 miles offside at Old Trafford to score a goal that LITERALLY cost United a league title. Barely any outrage, no panorama special, nothing.

Thing is most United fans can probably give you tonnes of examples of decisions not given in uniteds favour. There’s just no point because nobody wants to hear it. The other way however and ….
 

balaks

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Meh one of footballs great myths. The thing with United is we won a lot of stuff. So most horrendous decisions that went against us would often be inconsequential or nobody outside United would care so it wouldn’t be big news.

Man Utd getting a contentious decision in their favour is headline news. The media know it. They know the average fan will lap it up and it’ll feed into their hysterical ness. May even get a panaroma special on it.

To give you a prime example. In 2005 spurs scored a legit goal at old Trafford that passed the line but not given. Linesman was too far away to see … but anyway, that decision probably stopped spurs from finishing 10th and instead they finished 11th. That call spawned so much outrage and discussion for years.

In 2010 didier drogba stood about 500 miles offside at Old Trafford to score a goal that LITERALLY cost United a league title. Barely any outrage, no panorama special, nothing.

Thing is most United fans can probably give you tonnes of examples of decisions not given in uniteds favour. There’s just no point because nobody wants to hear it. The other way however and ….
You sound like a Liverpool fan now. This is the biggest insult I can give another person.
 

dove

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No not even that, it's pure Incompetence on refs and VAR
How can you be so certain? Why does the corruptIon exist in La Liga, Serie A etc. but PL is somehow exempt? "Incompetence" is a very easy and lazy way out of this problem IMO, I think it's very unlikely PL is completely clean of such things.
 

RoyH1

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They need to mic up the refs and specially the VAR. Bring it out in the open and let the public know exactly what they are thinking
 

SilentWitness

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All clubs need to come together and send an official letter to the FA. Refereeing is shocking and I guarantee there is a game for every club this season where a ref has cost them points.
 

Annihilate Now!

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It's not corruption... other teams will be on the recieving end of equally shit performances (see Wolves yesterday).

Refs are crap, and we have a crap system in place with crap "clear and obvious" (that doesn't actually mean anything) in place to make crap refs, already doing a crap job, even crapper.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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As if we didn't have bad calls with Fergie. Big ones too.
The clearest example of bias/corruption - call it what you will - came under Fergie. Anyone remember when he said that Alan Wiley had not been fit enough to keep up with the game in a post-match interview? We literally never got a decision for the next couple of seasons, it was absolutely blatant.
 

Cloud7

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Not at all. The IFAB rules state:

Which says nothing about the ref not having seen the play. If the VAR refs consider the incident should be a red according to the rules and the field ref only gave a yellow, they're actually required to ask the field ref to review the play (after a conversation where both sides explain their reasoning).
Okay glad there's been some clarification on this because that other thing was posted a lot and it seemed like that would have been a weird law. Thanks.
 

Amir

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No, it isn't! Look at the number of comments on several similar threads on here this evening. Genuine United fans are heartily sick of the ongoing corruption and bias from match officials and the media against United. I suggest that you actually watch our matches to see what is happening.
Nothing is happening that isn't happening in football regularly. United are NOT being singled out.
 

Pexbo

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Nothing is happening that isn't happening in football regularly. United are NOT being singled out.
There’s literally 3 examples this weekend of the same challenge or worse that did not even get a booking. Casemiro got a booking. Then VAR upgraded it to a red.
 

glasgow 21

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My opinion is Utd should appeal Casemiro's red card purely for one reason if this possible not knowing the in's and outs of the process. You powerpoint the Chelsea v Leicester game and any other game this season Marriner is on and get him to answer why only Casemiro. Same as why wasn't Ayew sent off in the previous one. Marriner is knee deep in all this. If he sends the Leicester player off then far do's he is consistent but this is far from that and the games were less than 24hrs apart. This is also apparent on Marriner not giving Taylor a call to review any of the pens shouts. Handball and Rashford caught by keeper are clear as day. Bruno's isn't a pen as replay shows he didn't protect the ball from the incoming tackle.
 

Tarrou

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I think bias is way more likely than corruption. Is Taylor a city fan or something? He's a manc right and Liverpool fans seem to hate him too
 

Pexbo

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My opinion is Utd should appeal Casemiro's red card purely for one reason if this possible not knowing the in's and outs of the process. You powerpoint the Chelsea v Leicester game and any other game this season Marriner is on and get him to answer why only Casemiro. Same as why wasn't Ayew sent off in the previous one. Marriner is knee deep in all this. If he sends the Leicester player off then far do's he is consistent but this is far from that and the games were less than 24hrs apart. This is also apparent on Marriner not giving Taylor a call to review any of the pens shouts. Handball and Rashford caught by keeper are clear as day. Bruno's isn't a pen as replay shows he didn't protect the ball from the incoming tackle.
1000% this.
 

sparx99

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It’s not even the big calls that drive me mad most of the time. It’s the inconsistency of each and every decision. Rashford can be clearly fouled with nothing given while the other team get so many little decisions.

It affects the momentum if instead of a dangerous free kick or at least possession in the opposition half you are chasing the other team on the counter attack.

Another one is the lack of yellow cards for other teams and then we often get the first couple of cards in a game. So instead of their RB being on a yellow with 60 mins to play he gets to make fouls 2,3,4 before a yellow comes out on 65-70mins.

How many red cards have other players had against us in recent years? It doesn’t seem very many.
 

Zlatan 7

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My opinion is Utd should appeal Casemiro's red card purely for one reason if this possible not knowing the in's and outs of the process. You powerpoint the Chelsea v Leicester game and any other game this season Marriner is on and get him to answer why only Casemiro. Same as why wasn't Ayew sent off in the previous one. Marriner is knee deep in all this. If he sends the Leicester player off then far do's he is consistent but this is far from that and the games were less than 24hrs apart. This is also apparent on Marriner not giving Taylor a call to review any of the pens shouts. Handball and Rashford caught by keeper are clear as day. Bruno's isn't a pen as replay shows he didn't protect the ball from the incoming tackle.
Mariner wasn’t var for the Leicester game
 

Vitro

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If the bias/corruption is so blatant it shouldn’t be an issue providing long term statistical evidence, over 3 or 4 seasons for example rather than purely anecdotal evidence any supporter could provide for their team? The evidence that was provided in Barcelona’s case, though not enough on its own was pretty remarkable.
 

Amir

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There’s literally 3 examples this weekend of the same challenge or worse that did not even get a booking. Casemiro got a booking. Then VAR upgraded it to a red.
Blame it on inconsistent refereeing then. Not silly things like corruption or bias. Referees do want to be seen as getting the right decision.
 

Edwards6

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My opinion is Utd should appeal Casemiro's red card purely for one reason if this possible not knowing the in's and outs of the process. You powerpoint the Chelsea v Leicester game and any other game this season Marriner is on and get him to answer why only Casemiro. Same as why wasn't Ayew sent off in the previous one. Marriner is knee deep in all this. If he sends the Leicester player off then far do's he is consistent but this is far from that and the games were less than 24hrs apart. This is also apparent on Marriner not giving Taylor a call to review any of the pens shouts. Handball and Rashford caught by keeper are clear as day. Bruno's isn't a pen as replay shows he didn't protect the ball from the incoming tackle.
If we appeal is the conversation between ref and VAR reviewed? I'd like to know what VAR could of possibly seen that the ref hadn't already seen when he decided to book Casemiro
 

LawCharltonBest

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Nothing is happening that isn't happening in football regularly. United are NOT being singled out.
The problem is, United are the biggest club and if you give them a dodgy decision, you're going to have your name spat in shame all over the TV screens. You can definitely definitely see officials hesitate to give us decisions and don't do it unless it's absolutely cast iron.

You only need eyes, common sense and to watch all the matches to see this. You must see patterns, it must be getting predictable to you. I don't even appeal penalties any more because I know they won't be given if there's even a seed of doubt. How many times has Rashford been clean through and taken out this season? 4-5? How many penalties? 0. For other clubs, this is 3+ penalties.

I said 10mins into the match yesterday "He'll send off a United player today"

It's getting so so so predictable and so boring.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Blame it on inconsistent refereeing then. Not silly things like corruption or bias. Referees do want to be seen as getting the right decision.
The whole point is that refs know that if they get a decision wrong in favour of United then they will be subject to intense scrutiny. Hence it's easier for them to not give stuff in our favour.
 

Pexbo

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Blame it on inconsistent refereeing then. Not silly things like corruption or bias. Referees do want to be seen as getting the right decision.
Why?

It’s not a heat of the moment thing. Twice now Marriner has singled out Casemiro and edited footage in a way to make his offences look as bad as possible. That’s not inconsistency, it’s too calculated.
 

M16Red

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This is so rawk
Agree mate, embarrassing
Why? If you read the thread, you will see most, if not all posts are saying its a form of bias. The idea that the word RAWKish is way to dismiss a thread is lazy on the post and person reading it.

Like reading the headline and then making a judgement in the comments.

Late night I watched a lot football commentary on the red and the game, Alan Shearer actually said Ten Hag was talking nonsense, I think its the first first time I've ever heard a pundit speak about a manager like that.

Ten hag is right the inconsistency is very real.

My point yesterday, none of uk pundits are impartial and now it seems perfectly fine for them too show that they are not. Jamie Carragher, Graeme Souness, Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Gary Lineker are in no way impartial they can't be. Alan Shearer has a UTD song about him for feck sake.

Now we are starting to refs seemingly influenced by public opinion, that's why I didn't like MOTD situation this weekend. It puts the opinions of pundits outside of football in the in the spotlight, moving away from football.

I'd have have youtube football commentators from each team commentating on the matches - feck em.
 

sparx99

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The whole point is that refs know that if they get a decision wrong in favour of United then they will be subject to intense scrutiny. Hence it's easier for them to not give stuff in our favour.
Yeah, this is the thing. We’ve even seen the VAR mid-season review where they determined the Martinelli goal for Arsenal was a mistake. No it wasn’t. It was just determined that way because pundits and media created a narrative that a foul isn’t a foul. Odegaard clearly fouled Eriksen, he bundled him over and didn’t get the ball.
 

Revan

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I missed the first 29 matches so haven’t seen the pen incident, but the red card was an obvious red card.

This place is reaching RAWK level of delusion.
 

georgipep

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My opinion is Utd should appeal Casemiro's red card purely for one reason if this possible not knowing the in's and outs of the process. You powerpoint the Chelsea v Leicester game and any other game this season Marriner is on and get him to answer why only Casemiro. Same as why wasn't Ayew sent off in the previous one. Marriner is knee deep in all this. If he sends the Leicester player off then far do's he is consistent but this is far from that and the games were less than 24hrs apart. This is also apparent on Marriner not giving Taylor a call to review any of the pens shouts. Handball and Rashford caught by keeper are clear as day. Bruno's isn't a pen as replay shows he didn't protect the ball from the incoming tackle.
Marriner was the actual on-field ref in the Leicester - Chelsea, game. Graham Scott was the VAR.

You could argue that Marriner didn't see the Leicester - Chelsea incidents.

Before you ask, he also wasn't the VAR on Newcastle - Wolves, Tony Harrington was VAR for that game.