I didn't say anything about the majority, I said it happened. I also mentioned other things. Our fanbase is toxic atm, some players receive a level of hate/abuse that isn't justified. Even on this forum, that is my opinion
Why is our fanbase so toxic towards its players?
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I didn't say anything about the majority, I said it happened. I also mentioned other things. Our fanbase is toxic atm, some players receive a level of hate/abuse that isn't justified. Even on this forum, that is my opinion
In your haste to respond you have completely missed the point.
The post was about our supporters and not about the manager.
Perhaps it would be better if you thought before posting.
Up to me isnt it. Thats the beauty of a forum, i can do what i want and say what i want and not what you want.
Because we’re tired of mediocre players who steal for a living.
It’s been far too long since we had a proper team. I’m not sure about OP but I’m not one for enabling shit players to be comfortable here. They’ve been lollygagging with no consequence and keep getting pats on their back for doing feck all and being feck all.
The quality players don’t deserve much backlash because honestly speaking, kudos to them for even staying at United. Let’s not beat around the bush here: we’re shit, so it’s somewhat of a miracle they’ve stuck around and that we’ve still been able to attract quality players with a shit on field product on top of discombobulated management from the top down.
...as for the shit players, feck em. They deserve all the criticism. It’s partially on them for being so bad and the rest on our shit management/higher ups for allowing such mediocrity to be allowed and become part of the culture. This isn’t United. They’re still given a pass and kept around so why be nice? Voice your opinion even if it makes you “toxic” if it means being heard and leading to change.
It’s been far too long since we had a proper team. I’m not sure about OP but I’m not one for enabling shit players to be comfortable here. They’ve been lollygagging with no consequence and keep getting pats on their back for doing feck all and being feck all.
The quality players don’t deserve much backlash because honestly speaking, kudos to them for even staying at United. Let’s not beat around the bush here: we’re shit, so it’s somewhat of a miracle they’ve stuck around and that we’ve still been able to attract quality players with a shit on field product on top of discombobulated management from the top down.
...as for the shit players, feck em. They deserve all the criticism. It’s partially on them for being so bad and the rest on our shit management/higher ups for allowing such mediocrity to be allowed and become part of the culture. This isn’t United. They’re still given a pass and kept around so why be nice? Voice your opinion even if it makes you “toxic” if it means being heard and leading to change.
Because they aren’t good enough (which admittedly isn’t their fault we keep them here) & we don’t have many likeable players - Herrera & Blind were a couple & they’ve gone now. They just aren’t really relatable I think
Some of the stuff from our players on Twitter is proper cringeworthy. Lingard in particular grinds my bones because it’s like he’s making himself out to be something far more elevated than his ability suggests. Outside of United fans, is Jesse Lingard the most despised modern day footballer out there - must be close?
Do other clubs have so many of their players causing this kind of frustration? I don’t see it.
If the club wants to move forward, then need to get a grip of players social media activity because it’s a massive embarrassment to the club in my eyes. Makes us look at joke at times.
Do other clubs have so many of their players causing this kind of frustration? I don’t see it.
If the club wants to move forward, then need to get a grip of players social media activity because it’s a massive embarrassment to the club in my eyes. Makes us look at joke at times.
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This
We give too much excuse and help them mask their deficiency :
1. Jose is a dinosaur
2. Jose didn't train them enough they lack match fitness (while Jose is actually known to rotate less and his team lead by John fecking Terry plays 50+ games every year)
3. Another new slate
4. Young and learning
5 months is a long time, most coach don't have 5 months teething period injury or no injury.
If Ole can't find a working formation 5 months into his job, he's not the one for the job
Who said you couldn't? It also means I can highlight your childish, spoilt, nonsensical mindset as utter horseshit too. The irony of course, is you have a problem with the freedom players have in their downtime...
Up to a certain level yeah but there are some obvious boundaries
Not solely on goals but 6 from open play, for a £100 million midfielder with barely any defensive responsibilities that is piss poor, Real Madrid are welcome to him and his circus as far as I’m concerned
Think Gilfi Sigurdsson has 11 from open play
Did I ever deny "it happened" or you are arguing with yourself? When we talk about "our fanbase" it should be a majority of our fanbase. Why a minority of stupid people get to represent "our fanbase" but not the majority?
5. Our fanbase is toxic!!! How can they perform when people attack them on Twitter?
Ask yourself why is Lingard in our team?
Does he assist? Does he score goals? In the last few months he hasn’t done anything on the pitch.
The only reason we should have players in the squad is because of their ability. Not because they’re home grown, or from our youth system, or from Manchester.
Now look at Lingard’s social media profile. New clothing lines, dances, generally child-like behaviour hence why so many pundits think he’s still 20 years old. He is of an age where young players will come in and look up to him. Lingard has too many distractions outside of football to focus. Sir Alex said the same thing about Rio Ferdinand, the difference being he was doing it at the end of his career when he had already accomplished everything with the club
Now in the last couple of days him and Rashford have hashtagged ‘0.012%’ basically throwing back into fans abusing them that they’re made it as Premier League footballers. They have the arrogance but not the ability to back it up, that is a mid table player mindset. Best thing we could do is get rid of Lingard to be honest, he’s clearly having a bad influence on Rashford as well.
As for the others, there is a lot of players, on a lot of money that aren’t even running enough. I don’t see why fans should back the players, after finishing 6th, with no trophies and with a shocking run of form at the end of the season. We couldn’t beat two relegated sides in our last two games. They deserve all the abuse they get.
Does he assist? Does he score goals? In the last few months he hasn’t done anything on the pitch.
The only reason we should have players in the squad is because of their ability. Not because they’re home grown, or from our youth system, or from Manchester.
Now look at Lingard’s social media profile. New clothing lines, dances, generally child-like behaviour hence why so many pundits think he’s still 20 years old. He is of an age where young players will come in and look up to him. Lingard has too many distractions outside of football to focus. Sir Alex said the same thing about Rio Ferdinand, the difference being he was doing it at the end of his career when he had already accomplished everything with the club
Now in the last couple of days him and Rashford have hashtagged ‘0.012%’ basically throwing back into fans abusing them that they’re made it as Premier League footballers. They have the arrogance but not the ability to back it up, that is a mid table player mindset. Best thing we could do is get rid of Lingard to be honest, he’s clearly having a bad influence on Rashford as well.
As for the others, there is a lot of players, on a lot of money that aren’t even running enough. I don’t see why fans should back the players, after finishing 6th, with no trophies and with a shocking run of form at the end of the season. We couldn’t beat two relegated sides in our last two games. They deserve all the abuse they get.
Are we more toxic than fans of other big clubs? I mean, have a look at have Madrid fans treat Bale.
Can we stop bringing Madrid fans up as if it exonerates us at all.
I couldn’t give a shit what Madrid fans do.
When its blatantly effecting what they give to the club on the pitch then yes. And i am not the only one who feels this way. In your opinion this might be a childish mindset, however i grew up watching players that would literally die for the badge, part of the reason i fell in love with the club. I used players attitudes as inspiration. Robson, Bruce, Schmeichel, Ince, Keane, i could go on were all great players that played for the badge and understood what it meant..... Even average players you could draw inspiration from the way the conducted themselves...... Blackmore, Webb, P.Neville, May, O'shea, again i could go on.
Now we have idiots using the badge to promote their own image and moron fans defending this notion citing things like 'what they do in their own time is fine' whilst firing insults at people disagreeing with them on a football forum.
If you think the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Martial and whoever else we have that is here purely for self promotion are doing the business on the pitch then thats fine. Who am i to say to you that your wrong. However in my opinion, and its only an opinion, i feel that they should be 100% dedicated to sorting their performances out on the field, which lets not forget has to be the priority for us fans, before indulging themselves in potential off field distractions.
Don't get me wrong. I am far from expecting Lingard to turn into Ronaldo, or Pogba into Robson however there are behaviors, attitudes and applications heavily associated with our badge that are not being portrayed by the majority of our current group. Again, my opinion. Not yours. Dont be so upset.
Criticizing them for bad performances is one thing. Constantly abusing the players on social media(which is happening right now to our player) is another.
There's literally nothing that justifies that.
There's literally nothing that justifies that.
Nope. No player in midtable teams sport this kinds of attitude. Players in lower leagues works harder, runs harder, and definitely dont sport this kind of shenagigans
Doesn't play CM but fair enough
Exactly
In terms of the numbers there are more fans abusing players on social media than go to the stadium or are even on this forum... so its not quite a fact to say its a minority. It may well be but not clear
Also plenty of fans on this forum also abuse the players
Good post.
I don't condone abuse but the tone was set with Fellaini and because he was near universally disliked it was okay apparently.
Now it's built because the managers keep taking the flak and we see some of our players come off unscathed and living the life. The recent backlash is because they were backed so much and all the blame was put on Jose and there's been a sudden realisation.
Now it's built because the managers keep taking the flak and we see some of our players come off unscathed and living the life. The recent backlash is because they were backed so much and all the blame was put on Jose and there's been a sudden realisation.
Fact is we filled our stadium most of the time, and most of the time they sing support to our players. There are very very few boo or "abuse" toward them, especially when we consider their "performance".
Fact is in 2 largest online fan forum of Manchester United, redcafe and reddit/r/reddevils - Young got overwhelming support.
As I said, it's up to you to determine who the majority is, and it's clear for me what's your opinion on this. Good for you I guess. I will just focus on our match-going fan and well moderated place like redcafe, instead of Twitter where every stupid guy can have a platform to speak.
Good analogy. If Ole thinks They didn't care enough I hope He'll show them. We don't need lazy players playing week in week out just because They're academy players or 'potentially can be good'.
I never once called them cnuts, Moyes was the only cnut. Trying to turn the once great United into fecking Everton, and he achieved it in less than a season. That's were the toxicity comes from. Nani used to get serious abuse I feel sorry for him in hindsight, he makes our current wide men look pathetic. Players get bashed just as much as the manager post SAF, if not the manager more. The players have avoided a lot of abuse its only this season where it's become quite serious. Fans have bit their tongue's for 6+ years now I don't think many can stomach it any longer. Especially not with JLingz and Rashy dressing like 70's pimps and putting up condescending social media posts.
I think we can stop at your first sentence. Blatantly effecting their on pitch performances? No it's not blatant, there's no stock or credibility you can lend to this point of view, there's no way you can qualify it, and it's pretty evident you simply don't like it. We have seen countless players conduct themselves in an identical manner without seeing any effect on their performance whatsoever. The way you are rambling on, you'd expect players like Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo etc. to be shunning social media. You seem entirely incapable of separating the two things, as if because we aren't performing on the pitch everything and anything you can shake a stick at is an issue. It's tragic we've seemingly cultivated a set of fans so devoid of any realism, so trapped in a bygone era with antiquated ideals that they can't accept the truisms of modern day society, and how they invariably imprint on modern day football. I mean, you've listed players there that couldn't go a season without violently attacking someone, a player that was very much part of the drinking culture Fergie often references, and a 'big-time Charlie.' Wake up. No matter how much someone is paid, you cannot expect them to devote their entire lives to football; they are going yo have interests outside of it. If you don't like footballers having a social media presence then fine, but don't conflate that with a lack of commitment or professionalism.
Again you keep talking about the Young situation and I am talking about abuse in general, I see tons of abuse on both redcafe and reddevils. I am on both forums and have seen the level of abuse increase dramatically over the past few years.
Not racial and that is not what I am saying I am talking about general abuse regarding them as people that has nothing to do with football
I just downplay the fact the abuse our players receive and most footballers receive in this day and age has increased dramatically
This is a great post.
Anyone labelling all the people criticising the players as cnuts or toxic or any of that shite should read this.
Bang on.
The injection of, or the spread of toxicity is now something of a phenomenon all over, almost in every walk of life. It would appear it stems from the current human condition of "what do we want... ? "and "when do we want it...now".
It seems now, especially in the age of social media, that if anyone, is doing or saying anything we dislike or is not performing as we think they should, then 'having a go" at them, creating 'false news' about them, disrespecting them, etc. is Ok, its acceptable... but not of course when its turned on us!
When I was younger the world seemed full of 'grumpy old men', now it seems to be full of 'grumpy young men' as well... or perhaps its just me.
I've supported United for over fifty years and yes I've done my share of cursing players for bad performances, but I don't recall the level of personal abuse now aimed at our own players, from our own fans, its seems incredible to me, but as they say, the past is another country!
It seems now, especially in the age of social media, that if anyone, is doing or saying anything we dislike or is not performing as we think they should, then 'having a go" at them, creating 'false news' about them, disrespecting them, etc. is Ok, its acceptable... but not of course when its turned on us!
When I was younger the world seemed full of 'grumpy old men', now it seems to be full of 'grumpy young men' as well... or perhaps its just me.
I've supported United for over fifty years and yes I've done my share of cursing players for bad performances, but I don't recall the level of personal abuse now aimed at our own players, from our own fans, its seems incredible to me, but as they say, the past is another country!
Great post mate. Captures the frustrations of our fans perfectly. Also, I don't think we are the only fan base that berates it's players. Every club when under-performing gets treated similarly by it's fans. We have been under performing for 6 of the last 7 years so it's kinda obvious why we are all so irked.
I will conflate this very thing, until i see evidence that clothing brands etc dont effect on field performances. Of the successful teams this season, please could somebody tell me how many of their players are messing about selling perfumes or clothes?
By successful teams.... teams that have actually won something or surpassed expectations. Liverpool, City, Ajax, Spurs, Barca, Bayern, Dortmund. It would be interesting to know why a chunk of our 'Everton level' players (no disrespect to Everton at all) tend to believe they have the right to behave like superstars when all they have achieved in the game (Pogba aside) is fraudulently earned a whopping contract at the biggest club in the world.
I support the team but it is becoming increasingly difficult to support many of the individuals within it with their conduct on and off the field.
I posted the other day about when we went to Upton Park under LVG needing a win to keep alive the hopes of a top 4 finish. The West Ham fans terrorized the team bus. Now this was a must win game where the players should have been trying to keep complete focus on the task ahead and what happens..... JLings or whatever nickname he has dubbed himself see's an opportunity to gain a few extra followers by videoing himself acting like a complete buffoon. We lost the game. And yes, i expect him to sit down on the bus and not to act like a tit whilst he is representing this football club. Take it seriously ffs (him not you).
Great post, put better than i ever could, perhaps @ivaldo could have a read of this and then kindly close the door on his way out!
This is exactly the sort of attitude we hear about Rashford and Lingard when it comes to training, which also explains why they sprint more and run further than almost all their team-mates.
Ashley Young, talking about Rashford.
Mourinho:
Which makes shite of your analogy... (without even getting into the absolute nonsense implying they're on twitter or in the pub when they should be working
)I think we have struggles as a club to move into the modern era of football.
We are blessed with history and the Fergie Era and are clinging desperately on to past glory.
We were on top, we were good and we knew it. We had challengers and we rose to it and always, without fail battled to the end. If we lost, we lost with dignity and had a plan in place to adapt and get back on top.
We have totally lost our identity and structure and can no longer claim to be an elite performer. Mentality and application is missing and we don't have a structure as a Club that is comparable to our rivals. We have been left behind.
It starts from behind the scenes, from the owners down.
The Glazers are not perfect, but there is always money to spend.
Ed - should be nowhere near footballing decisions and we are all aware of this.
Coaches - While we have good coaches, I don't think we have world class coaches anymore.
Manager - Ole needs time, he's got several managers worth of players in there right now, most of which have underperformed for some time.
So the DOF needs addressing.
Why all this detail?
We are rotton from the top chief to the players.
Why are the fanbase toxic towards our players? Because of the drivel we are watching. Simple as.
Sub par performances, sub par effort. Our players used to be role models, play with confidence and finesse. Our players would always give 110% regardless.
Our current lot are a shambles. Regular 5/10 performances. Being a Manchester United player should be something to be extremely proud of, today its not. Social media seems more important to some of them than what goes on on the pitch. I repeat, a shambles.
While we watch this drivel, we have Spurs, City, Liverpool playing some amazing football. The standard of the Premier league is so high with majority of teams having some real quality. Its so easy to be caught and made to look average. (See Pogba stood there while Cardiff players run past him for a tap in). Being complacent just isn't good enough.
I, as a utd fan actually find the likes of Lingard an appalling ambassador for our club. Yes, he's been here a long time, through the ranks, I get it. But he isn't good enough as a footballer to be in our squad, let alone team!
The fact a lot of our players have been here so long while degressing is frustrating.
Young - Signed as an attacker, squad player when signed. Now captain and 1st choice full back. Not good enough!
Jones/Smalling/Darmian/Rojo/Lingard = Not improved over time, not going too. All surplus to requirements.
Matic/Sanchez = Stop gap signings that haven't worked = need selling
Pogba = Massive flop. Divides opinion. Easy to hate, easy to love. Marmite, but performance wise not good enough!
Ole needs time to sort this mess, like I said above he has 4 managers worth of players in there.
We are toxic because we demand the best.
We are blessed with history and the Fergie Era and are clinging desperately on to past glory.
We were on top, we were good and we knew it. We had challengers and we rose to it and always, without fail battled to the end. If we lost, we lost with dignity and had a plan in place to adapt and get back on top.
We have totally lost our identity and structure and can no longer claim to be an elite performer. Mentality and application is missing and we don't have a structure as a Club that is comparable to our rivals. We have been left behind.
It starts from behind the scenes, from the owners down.
The Glazers are not perfect, but there is always money to spend.
Ed - should be nowhere near footballing decisions and we are all aware of this.
Coaches - While we have good coaches, I don't think we have world class coaches anymore.
Manager - Ole needs time, he's got several managers worth of players in there right now, most of which have underperformed for some time.
So the DOF needs addressing.
Why all this detail?
We are rotton from the top chief to the players.
Why are the fanbase toxic towards our players? Because of the drivel we are watching. Simple as.
Sub par performances, sub par effort. Our players used to be role models, play with confidence and finesse. Our players would always give 110% regardless.
Our current lot are a shambles. Regular 5/10 performances. Being a Manchester United player should be something to be extremely proud of, today its not. Social media seems more important to some of them than what goes on on the pitch. I repeat, a shambles.
While we watch this drivel, we have Spurs, City, Liverpool playing some amazing football. The standard of the Premier league is so high with majority of teams having some real quality. Its so easy to be caught and made to look average. (See Pogba stood there while Cardiff players run past him for a tap in). Being complacent just isn't good enough.
I, as a utd fan actually find the likes of Lingard an appalling ambassador for our club. Yes, he's been here a long time, through the ranks, I get it. But he isn't good enough as a footballer to be in our squad, let alone team!
The fact a lot of our players have been here so long while degressing is frustrating.
Young - Signed as an attacker, squad player when signed. Now captain and 1st choice full back. Not good enough!
Jones/Smalling/Darmian/Rojo/Lingard = Not improved over time, not going too. All surplus to requirements.
Matic/Sanchez = Stop gap signings that haven't worked = need selling
Pogba = Massive flop. Divides opinion. Easy to hate, easy to love. Marmite, but performance wise not good enough!
Ole needs time to sort this mess, like I said above he has 4 managers worth of players in there.
We are toxic because we demand the best.
The only other instances I can remember of our fans giving managers/players sh*t before the last 12/18 months was Darren Fletcher (I remember being at Anfield some lad giving him loads and nearly getting belted for it) and of course Giggs when he had a poor season and a lot of fans got on his back.
Even under Moyes, although we were shocking you could see they were trying just not good enough and from memory there was not much abuse towards players or even the manager, every time I was at OT the atmosphere was unreal (we got smoked by Liverpool, then City the week after both 0-3 and the fans were just going insane, was class).
Now, for me anyway, I can take getting beat, losing games, not a problem with that at all but I have never seen in my lifetime, a team/set of players who:
1. Don't seem to have passion for the club or care that much;
2. Never track back, chase, press, even chase back after losing the ball, baffles me;
3. Are so lethargic in everything they do, 5/10 yard balls just sloppy, no urgency, no winning mentality, it's as if they are saying to themselves (ah well if this ball goes astray paycheck still on its way on Friday);
4. The social media aspect does wind me up, I know it is modern football and most do it but Pogba/Lingard just seem to be so OTT and I get that they have to sort out their brand and all that but we miss out on top 4, and a day later they are on selling their brand, fashion line etc. just screams that they don't give a toss.
Just my opinion but the above, for me is the cause of me not renewing my season ticket this year and choosing to spend my money elsewhere for a year or two. If they don't care and can't be bothered then I am going on a few lads trips and taking the missus away rather than flying/driving down to shithole places to watch our players not give a sh*t.
Just my two cents but personally this is the most distant I have felt from the club in my lifetime, zero connection and for the first time ever it does not bother me in the slightest who leaves, for me you can bin off anyone of them and I would not bat and eyelid.
Even under Moyes, although we were shocking you could see they were trying just not good enough and from memory there was not much abuse towards players or even the manager, every time I was at OT the atmosphere was unreal (we got smoked by Liverpool, then City the week after both 0-3 and the fans were just going insane, was class).
Now, for me anyway, I can take getting beat, losing games, not a problem with that at all but I have never seen in my lifetime, a team/set of players who:
1. Don't seem to have passion for the club or care that much;
2. Never track back, chase, press, even chase back after losing the ball, baffles me;
3. Are so lethargic in everything they do, 5/10 yard balls just sloppy, no urgency, no winning mentality, it's as if they are saying to themselves (ah well if this ball goes astray paycheck still on its way on Friday);
4. The social media aspect does wind me up, I know it is modern football and most do it but Pogba/Lingard just seem to be so OTT and I get that they have to sort out their brand and all that but we miss out on top 4, and a day later they are on selling their brand, fashion line etc. just screams that they don't give a toss.
Just my opinion but the above, for me is the cause of me not renewing my season ticket this year and choosing to spend my money elsewhere for a year or two. If they don't care and can't be bothered then I am going on a few lads trips and taking the missus away rather than flying/driving down to shithole places to watch our players not give a sh*t.
Just my two cents but personally this is the most distant I have felt from the club in my lifetime, zero connection and for the first time ever it does not bother me in the slightest who leaves, for me you can bin off anyone of them and I would not bat and eyelid.
Exactly, I'd love to know too. However, if there are any at least they actually have a leg to stand on (league titles, CL finals etc).
So that's the way these footballers should run their businesses? Shut down operations during bad seasons, then start them up again when things are going well. Exactly at what point in any given season should they decide whether or not to make their employees redundant?