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So far all games that played has been wonOh dear. That doesn't look good.
So far all games that played has been wonOh dear. That doesn't look good.
I don't feel sorry for him at all. He left Real on an extreme high: 3 CL's and 1 La Liga.Tweet
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Feel sorry for him. His legacy was virtually untouchable until he decided to come back for some reason .
You know, his last league title feels quite similiar to Mourinho`s last.It still is and he won them the league again.
It kind of weird. He's probably had the best managerial start of any manager in history apart from Pep maybe. Personally I think he's earned himself quite a lot of time.It's amazing how high their standards are. You wouldn't think they are in second place and still in the CL the way people are going on about a coach who's won 3 Champions leagues and 2 league titles in about four seasons.
Add that he's a playing legend for them as well you'd think there's a soft spot somewhere but it seems not. I think it's risky to change a manager who's proven he can win at any level especially now when there's a bunch of charlatans with unproven tactics and theories trying to convince us the world is flat and not showing the results. Just look at how our managerial situation has been for the past decade.It kind of weird. He's probably had the best managerial start of any manager in history apart from Pep maybe. Personally I think he's earned himself quite a lot of time.
Eh? 7 points off top despite having played a game more, knocked out of the Cup to the very definition of cannon-fodder (who were down to 10 at the time they scored), scraped through very unconvincingly in the CL (Pretty sure we'd be in Rd 2 and Real in the EL if the groups were swapped) and he's a big factor for the position the squad is in. Transfer decisions and calls on specific players are finally being questioned too. Marca just ran an article titled "Solari was right" about some player decisions (Reguilon, Llorente, Isco, Marcelo).It's amazing how high their standards are. You wouldn't think they are in second place and still in the CL the way people are going on about a coach who's won 3 Champions leagues and 2 league titles in about four seasons.
This is the same logic that had people running around saying Fergie must go after Becks left. Mind you, we all know transfers at Madrid are complicated. The so called youngsters at the club, maybe he just doesn't rate them. You say past glories like we're talking about the distant past, we're literally about them winning the league a season ago.Eh? 7 points off top despite having played a game more, knocked out of the Cup to the very definition of cannon-fodder (who were down to 10 at the time they scored), scraped through very unconvincingly in the CL (Pretty sure we'd be in Rd 2 and Real in the EL if the groups were swapped) and he's a big factor for the position the squad is in. Transfer decisions and calls on specific players are finally being questioned too. Marca just ran an article titled "Solari was right" about some player decisions (Reguilon, Llorente, Isco, Marcelo).
In short, yes, he won a load of stuff, but something's not quite right at the moment and it's only correct that he be questioned. You don't live off past glories forever in any job. He's done very well in the past, but there is a nagging feeling that he may not be the right man to rebuild. So far the signs aren't the most promising, anyway. I personally feel he's got it horribly wrong in the transfer market and his loyalty to / reliance on the ageing spine that won the CL hat-trick is hurting him badly now. Also, I feel (just my own opinion) that he has - for some unknown reason - lost that flexibility which was a hallmark of his first stint.
It's not about the journalist's opinion. I've posted previously too about this as my opinion. I don't think anyone can argue that Zidane's transfer dealings - ins and outs - have been far from successful. Comparing him to Fergie is ridiculous by the way. Previous discussions on this thread also covered where his management style etc. have changed - and nobody can say for sure how much is caused by personnel changes beyond his control and how much is driven by him and the choices he makes.This is the same logic that had people running around saying Fergie must go after Becks left. Mind you, we all know transfers at Madrid are complicated. The so called youngsters at the club, maybe he just doesn't rate them. You say past glories like we're talking about the distant past, we're literally about them winning the league a season ago.
Why would you care about a journalist's opinion. This is like these 'pep's job at risk' concepts running around now he looks odds on to win another title. You can question him but his job cant be at risk, that makes no sense. It'd be foolish if they get rid of him. It's that simple.
Transfers at Madrid isn't as simple as it is at a club like ours. He's not exactly running around signing everyone. You can't blame him for transfers.It's not about the journalist's opinion. I've posted previously too about this as my opinion. I don't think anyone can argue that Zidane's transfer dealings - ins and outs - have been far from successful. Comparing him to Fergie is ridiculous by the way. Previous discussions on this thread also covered where his management style etc. have changed - and nobody can say for sure how much is caused by personnel changes beyond his control and how much is driven by him and the choices he makes.
Also, last season's title is a bit of a strange one. Yes, the form post-lockdown was fantastic, but equally, Barca were ahead (despite being in crisis and being quite crap) and it still took some fortunate refereeing decisions to get the title home. They all count of course, but it wasn't vintage. Also, that was the last season. It's gone. History now. Real Madrid wouldn't be the first club to change manager the season after winning the league. So yes, his job can certainly be at risk.
As for a managerial change, it's a very tough call, but will likely boil down to whether Flo feels another manager would change things with the current squad and also how they'd handle youth and transition. There isn't going to be much (if any) money to go around.
But the project is to buy young players and unite them with elite players / great promises who have already shown something (Hazard, Militao, Jovic). As you say, maybe Madrid is not a team for that. Many people begin to share that opinion.Transfers at Madrid isn't as simple as it is at a club like ours. He's not exactly running around signing everyone. You can't blame him for transfers.
If he doesnt rate players that come in that's his perogative as a coach. Being unhappy at him cause he doesn't, doesn't make any sense at all.
He's won more in his first 4 seasons managing Madrid than Sir Alex won in his first decade here. So there's that. Only difference is Sir Alex was here forever, he hasn't been there forever but he's a proven winner.
Firing him isnt going to help anything. That squad isn't good enough. Sort the squad out and if he loses with real quality around then you can blame him.
Madrid have been barking up the wrong tree for some time and now it's falling on them. They went and wasted a lot of money on young unproven players when they're a team that demands immediate success. The whole thing doesn't make sense.
Eh? I can only assume you don’t follow Madrid. I’ll list just the top of my peeves with Zidane:Transfers at Madrid isn't as simple as it is at a club like ours. He's not exactly running around signing everyone. You can't blame him for transfers.
If he doesnt rate players that come in that's his perogative as a coach. Being unhappy at him cause he doesn't, doesn't make any sense at all.
He's won more in his first 4 seasons managing Madrid than Sir Alex won in his first decade here. So there's that. Only difference is Sir Alex was here forever, he hasn't been there forever but he's a proven winner.
Firing him isnt going to help anything. That squad isn't good enough. Sort the squad out and if he loses with real quality around then you can blame him.
Madrid have been barking up the wrong tree for some time and now it's falling on them. They went and wasted a lot of money on young unproven players when they're a team that demands immediate success. The whole thing doesn't make sense.
seems Zidane doesn’t want to be that ‘transition’ manager. Perhaps he should have left after winning the league.Eh? I can only assume you don’t follow Madrid. I’ll list just the top of my peeves with Zidane:
1. Marcos Llorente - In that summer, when asked who I’d take from Madrid in exchange for Pogba, my immediate answer was “Marcos Llorente”. Rated him and felt he was good. Zidane didn’t agree. His subsequent performances leave me wondering just why.
2. The Reguilon-Marcelo-Mendy situation. Santi blooded Reguilon, who kept Marcelo benched on merit. With the return of Zidane, boom! Out goes Reguilon, in comes Mendy and Marcelo stayed. Oh and then he sold Reguilon - and just 3 months later, wants to buy him back. So that’s going to be 20 Mn euros spent within 9 months to get a guy some experience at Spurs. Mindless madness.
3. Jovic - I feel he’s not been managed right
4. Won’t even bother going into how he’s just completely refusing to move on the old guard but will just say, I’m sick of it
5. Hazard. Wanted him and his attitude is horrific. He gets injured because he’s unprofessional. His unprofessionalism and lack of focus on fitness is a disrespectful to the club. But as soon as he’s “fit”, he plays!
6. Odegaard. Most of all. The stories of him being detrimental to Odegaard started soon after he was signed and Zidane was managing him at Castilla. But what’s happened in the last 6 months is disgraceful. His 2 year loan was cut short and he was convinced to agree to that as Zidane assured him he’d be integrated and played. He’s just not got a proper look in despite looking good all of last season in the same league. And now, 4 monthsafter being brought back, he’s being loaned out?
I love Zizou for what he’s done for the club but his second stint has just not been what it was meant to be. It was supposed to see a transition. Where is that transition?
It’s easy to mouth off when you don’t follow the club but I don’t think Zizou has much (if any) credit left in the bank. Unless he (no idea how) turns things around completely, I think he’s done.
PS: And yes, he has that passport issue, but I really feel a way should have been found to include Kubo. Poor kid got injured but that was clearly not a factor in loaning him.
You really think so?I predict he will reach the semis of the UCL this season.
In short, yes, he won a load of stuff, but something's not quite right at the moment and it's only correct that he be questioned. You don't live off past glories forever in any job. He's done very well in the past, but there is a nagging feeling that he may not be the right man to rebuild. So far the signs aren't the most promising, anyway. I personally feel he's got it horribly wrong in the transfer market and his loyalty to / reliance on the ageing spine that won the CL hat-trick is hurting him badly now. Also, I feel (just my own opinion) that he has - for some unknown reason - lost that flexibility which was a hallmark of his first stint.
1: Surely you can understand why it's difficult for a midfielder to break through and play ahead of Kroos and Casemiro?Eh? I can only assume you don’t follow Madrid. I’ll list just the top of my peeves with Zidane:
1. Marcos Llorente - In that summer, when asked who I’d take from Madrid in exchange for Pogba, my immediate answer was “Marcos Llorente”. Rated him and felt he was good. Zidane didn’t agree. His subsequent performances leave me wondering just why.
2. The Reguilon-Marcelo-Mendy situation. Santi blooded Reguilon, who kept Marcelo benched on merit. With the return of Zidane, boom! Out goes Reguilon, in comes Mendy and Marcelo stayed. Oh and then he sold Reguilon - and just 3 months later, wants to buy him back. So that’s going to be 20 Mn euros spent within 9 months to get a guy some experience at Spurs. Mindless madness.
3. Jovic - I feel he’s not been managed right
4. Won’t even bother going into how he’s just completely refusing to move on the old guard but will just say, I’m sick of it
5. Hazard. Wanted him and his attitude is horrific. He gets injured because he’s unprofessional. His unprofessionalism and lack of focus on fitness is a disrespectful to the club. But as soon as he’s “fit”, he plays!
6. Odegaard. Most of all. The stories of him being detrimental to Odegaard started soon after he was signed and Zidane was managing him at Castilla. But what’s happened in the last 6 months is disgraceful. His 2 year loan was cut short and he was convinced to agree to that as Zidane assured him he’d be integrated and played. He’s just not got a proper look in despite looking good all of last season in the same league. And now, 4 monthsafter being brought back, he’s being loaned out?
I love Zizou for what he’s done for the club but his second stint has just not been what it was meant to be. It was supposed to see a transition. Where is that transition?
It’s easy to mouth off when you don’t follow the club but I don’t think Zizou has much (if any) credit left in the bank. Unless he (no idea how) turns things around completely, I think he’s done.
PS: And yes, he has that passport issue, but I really feel a way should have been found to include Kubo. Poor kid got injured but that was clearly not a factor in loaning him.
We very clearly are not the kind of club that can afford itBut the project is to buy young players and unite them with elite players / great promises who have already shown something (Hazard, Militao, Jovic). As you say, maybe Madrid is not a team for that. Many people begin to share that opinion.
Marcelo was good from the beginning, same as Ramos. Varane started playing regularly in his second season when Mourinho decided to punish Pepe, then spent the next 3 years being 3rd choice until he finally managed to overtake Pepe in the hierarchy, thanks in part to injuries, but also to the increasing quality of his performancesHowever, this was done in the past with Varane, Marcelo, Ramos or even Benzema, who also arrived very young. Today Marcelo would have gone on loan after months and months without playing.
Either his task is to develop those players, or it's winning. Can't be both. If it's the former, than he can't come under fire for not being competitive, or losing to Alcoyano. If it's the latter, he can't come under fire for not playing the kidsNot using them are his coaching decisions but then it completely collides with what the club needs, and his task should be to develop those players.
I agree, he should be responsible for Hazard and Jovic if indeed he wanted them. He can't be responsible for Militao looking like crap everytime he plays though, or for letting Hakimi go when we already have Carvajal and Hakimi wanted to be a starter, or Brahim, when he already has Vinicius and Rodrygo whom the president wants to see play every weekI can understand that he does not like a certain player, but he didn´t want Ceballos, Brahim, Jovic, Odegaard, Achraf or Reguilón. The next is Militâo.
He signed Hazard and supposedly Jovic. He should be responsible for his performances.
Zidane wanted Ceballos sold, the club refused. He wanted James sold, the club refused. At the end of the day the club needed a sale and Llorente was the only one they were willing to sellEh? I can only assume you don’t follow Madrid. I’ll list just the top of my peeves with Zidane:
1. Marcos Llorente - In that summer, when asked who I’d take from Madrid in exchange for Pogba, my immediate answer was “Marcos Llorente”. Rated him and felt he was good. Zidane didn’t agree. His subsequent performances leave me wondering just why.
Agree on this one. His loyalty to Marcelo was bad business for the club. It made sense a year ago, when there was still hope Marcelo could still be a WC player and Reguilon hadn't shown enough to merit trusting him as the starter, so the signing of Mendy made sense at the time. But selling Reguilon last summer made zero sense2. The Reguilon-Marcelo-Mendy situation. Santi blooded Reguilon, who kept Marcelo benched on merit. With the return of Zidane, boom! Out goes Reguilon, in comes Mendy and Marcelo stayed. Oh and then he sold Reguilon - and just 3 months later, wants to buy him back. So that’s going to be 20 Mn euros spent within 9 months to get a guy some experience at Spurs. Mindless madness.
Maybe, but Jovic put a lot of effort into it too with constant off field drama and unprofessional behaviour. Club also didn't help at all, leaving him to his own devices instead of working to get him settled down3. Jovic - I feel he’s not been managed right
Me too, but it's not like the new signings have exactly covered themselves in glory either...4. Won’t even bother going into how he’s just completely refusing to move on the old guard but will just say, I’m sick of it
Yes, this i agree with too. Just hard to understand6. Odegaard. Most of all. The stories of him being detrimental to Odegaard started soon after he was signed and Zidane was managing him at Castilla. But what’s happened in the last 6 months is disgraceful. His 2 year loan was cut short and he was convinced to agree to that as Zidane assured him he’d be integrated and played. He’s just not got a proper look in despite looking good all of last season in the same league. And now, 4 monthsafter being brought back, he’s being loaned out?
What transition? This club doesn't do transitionIt was supposed to see a transition. Where is that transition?
And this is the perfect coda Kubo, who couldn't get a game for villarreal, would have cost one of Vincius, Rodrygo or Militao his spot, should have been included, somehowPS: And yes, he has that passport issue, but I really feel a way should have been found to include Kubo. Poor kid got injured but that was clearly not a factor in loaning him.
Either his task is to develop those players, or it's winning. Can't be both. If it's the former, than he can't come under fire for not being competitive, or losing to Alcoyano. If it's the latter, he can't come under fire for not playing the kids
The development of boys in the past seemed more natural to me, assuming they would have to take over the position, with good times and bad.He can't be responsible for Militao looking like crap everytime he plays
I genuinely don't remember that ever happening at this club to be honest. In 25 years of following the football...Iker is the only one i can think offThe development of boys in the past seemed more natural to me, assuming they would have to take over the position, with good times and bad.
I'm not asking him to put them all at once or to be a teacher, however he could have managed things better.
I mean, to play for real madrid you need to earn it. Let's not pretend otherwise. Militao was 3rd choice CB last season, he got plenty of chances to impress and make a case for himself as a starter. He failed at that. He was 3rd choice at the start of this season, and again, he failed to take his chances and eventually was even beaten by Nacho to 3rd choice. That's on him. The last time he played was 31st October because he didn't deserve to start over Varane or Ramos, or even Nacho. Why should he get chances when eveytime he plays he's crap? Over guys who've been better than him?Militao didn't do very well (we should blame @Peyroteo who probably overrated him ), but the last time he had played was on October 31st.
It would be a miracle if he did it well, or like when Karim does not rest at least 20 minutes to give a chance to Jovic.
I would like to bring Theo too, and his birthday parties
Well, maybe I saw it with different eyes in the past. It is clear that it is not an easy club but it did not seem like the black hole of talent that Zidane has become, as @GatoLoco said a few weeks ago.I genuinely don't remember that ever happening at this club to be honest. In 25 years of following the football...Iker is the only one i can think off
I mean, to play for real madrid you need to earn it. Let's not pretend otherwise. Militao was 3rd choice CB last season, he got plenty of chances to impress and make a case for himself as a starter. He failed at that. He was 3rd choice at the start of this season, and again, he failed to take his chances and eventually was even beaten by Nacho to 3rd choice. That's on him. The last time he played was 31st October because he didn't deserve to start over Varane or Ramos, or even Nacho. Why should he get chances when eveytime he plays he's crap? Over guys who've been better than him?
Jovic was just a clusterfeck all around but again, early on he *was* getting chances...maybe less than he deserved, ok, but still
If anything it's the insistence with Hazard, Asensio, even Marcelo and Isco that should be rightly criticized