Walters_19_MuFc
Full Member
@finneh posted a diagram of the average positions against Spurs and Liverpool
Top one - Spurs
Bottom one - Liverpool
Top one - Spurs
Bottom one - Liverpool
I typed out a reply and realised this is just getting into levels of interpretation. Either way, Fellaini is starting matches pulling out towards the left wing, playing with his back to goal and pushing onto the RCB and RB. By virtue of being our outlet ball, he spends a lot of time ahead of the ball. I can't see how you can compare that role to what Herrera does, or any other orthodox CM player. He did tuck back in into what was a more orthodox midfield 3 position against Liverpool and Tottenham in the second half, to be fair (where he was noticeably less prominent/effective in both games).Rooney was playing behind the forward, centrally, in a 4411 or 4231. He was a 10 who helped out defensively - similar to Oscar for Chelsea. Fellaini, on the other hand, although slightly more advanced than Herrera, is playing on the left of a three, whilst Herrera is on the right.
Fellaini shares a similar role to Matuidi of PSG, who constantly running off the shoulder of the last man, but also comes back and makes a three off the ball. In a 433, if the forward drops off, which Rooney likes to do often, you then need one of the midfielders to run in behind, and it seems that Van Gaal has given Fellaini that role.
That's not true, Fellaini does things better than Herrera and Herrera does over things better than Fellaini. You can see it with your own eyes and the stats proves it too.
For the record my post that started this wasn't me saying we actually won games 5-4 regularly or scored record tallies every season. I was talking about the cavalier mentality we played with, not how well that actually panned out.That style of play is also a myth. Until 06-07 we'd only scored more than 80 goals in a Prem season twice and, over the 15 seasons to that point, we averaged less than 2 goals a game. And that's including 99-00 and 01-02 when we scored 97 and 87 goals respectively. In the Prem we let in 3 or more goals 40 times in those 15 seasons - we won 5 of those games (and had six 3-3 draws). That's not to say that the game wasn't more "end to end" in those days - it was. But, strangely, that didn't result in more goals (for or against) than we've seen in recent years.
I agree with that. However I think that Fellaini's defensive qualities, the physical stuff as you said, is at a higher level than Herrera's defensive qualities.That's not true, Fellaini does things better than Herrera and Herrera does over things better than Fellaini. You can see it with your own eyes and the stats proves it too.
Fellaini is better in all the physical things (clearances, takles won) and Herrera his better in all the positional things hence his high number of interceptions.
None of them are perfect defensively but Herrera's strong points are more suited for the role that Van gaal gave him.
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...nterceptions/defence_score/fouls_committed#90
de Gea's positioning was all over the place Vs Liverpool.@finneh posted a diagram of the average positions against Spurs and Liverpool
Top one - Spurs
Bottom one - Liverpool
And rightly so. He's been in terrific form, and gives us something very few teams can offer.Tweet
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Seems van Gaal is really impressed with him.
That is the quote from the conference (taking from the BBC).Van Gaal on United midfielder Marouane Fellaini's form: "I knew of him but I didn't meet him until after we came back from pre-season in the United States. From the first training session he has done everything I have asked. He has been very open to what I have said and he wants to perform. We can change the system but the way he is playing, I cannot change him."
It's the case with Young as well. The two players who got the most shit thrown at them last year. They both have exemplary attitudes and work their balls off for the manager and team.That is the quote from the conference (taking from the BBC).
Honestly not wanting to beat a dead horse with this one, but it backs up what I thought from when Fellaini came on against West Brom and scored his first goal for us, earlier this season. He listens and does what the manager asks - we saw in that game (it was West Brom or West Ham, cant remember which) that LVG was talking to Fellaini at length in the dugout, before he brought him on. It was clear that he was giving Fellaini various instructions, and Fellaini came on and changed the game around.
You can doubt many things about the afroman, but his attitude is not one of them. He has shown the balls, grit and determination to be a United player, and has shown that he will listen to the manager to good effect. At this point and based on these quotes I would be shocked if LVG sold Fellaini anytime soon.
I have personally been more surprised at Young's turnaround. I always thought that Fellaini would come good if LVG gave him a chance, but Young I expected to be one of the first out the door. Credit to him as well.It's the case with Young as well. The two players who got the most shit thrown at them last year. They both have exemplary attitudes and work their balls off for the manager and team.
It was West Ham Big Sam was on about Long Ball Utd and LVG brought out a dossier to prove him wrong.That is the quote from the conference (taking from the BBC).
Honestly not wanting to beat a dead horse with this one, but it backs up what I thought from when Fellaini came on against West Brom and scored his first goal for us, earlier this season. He listens and does what the manager asks - we saw in that game (it was West Brom or West Ham, cant remember which) that LVG was talking to Fellaini at length in the dugout, before he brought him on. It was clear that he was giving Fellaini various instructions, and Fellaini came on and changed the game around.
You can doubt many things about the afroman, but his attitude is not one of them. He has shown the balls, grit and determination to be a United player, and has shown that he will listen to the manager to good effect. At this point and based on these quotes I would be shocked if LVG sold Fellaini anytime soon.
Ah yes, now I remember!It was West Ham Big Sam was on about Long Ball Utd and LVG brought out a dossier to prove him wrong.
Yep, no chance of him being sold. Even if we sign someone to replace him in the first team he'll still be an excellent squad player to have around.That is the quote from the conference (taking from the BBC).
Honestly not wanting to beat a dead horse with this one, but it backs up what I thought from when Fellaini came on against West Brom and scored his first goal for us, earlier this season. He listens and does what the manager asks - we saw in that game (it was West Brom or West Ham, cant remember which) that LVG was talking to Fellaini at length in the dugout, before he brought him on. It was clear that he was giving Fellaini various instructions, and Fellaini came on and changed the game around.
You can doubt many things about the afroman, but his attitude is not one of them. He has shown the balls, grit and determination to be a United player, and has shown that he will listen to the manager to good effect. At this point and based on these quotes I would be shocked if LVG sold Fellaini anytime soon.
May the (aerial) force be with you.Expecting one of the gif masters here to do a Star Wars/Fellaini combo. "He will bring balance".
I wouldn't disagree with this. The English game was helter-skelter end-to-end back then. Exciting, but useless against top European sides who could slow the game down and use skill (dastardly foreigners!!). And, when it came down to it, lack of skill was why so few goals were scored in the Prem despite all the effort. (Does that tell us something about the national team?)For the record my post that started this wasn't me saying we actually won games 5-4 regularly or scored record tallies every season. I was talking about the cavalier mentality we played with, not how well that actually panned out.
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I remember supporting Fellaini a bit last year and you get a lot of stick when you do that, so it's surprising to see so many "I knew he'd come good" posts, but fair play @togg, @Walrus and @Robbie Boy all don't seem to be that harsh on the lad (although Robbie Boy seriously doubted during the world cup)
That was my post on 3rd September, when we signed him, and I stand by every wordThe fee was too high, the circumstances ridiculous and the overall transfer window has been a shambles, but he will be a good signing for us I reckon.
that comparison is a bit misleading seeing as he mostly played a more defensive midfield role last seasonTweet
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It's more an indication of how much his attacking play regressed last season, which is explained by the role he was used in.Tweet
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Can't deny I doubted to him to the point that I wanted rid. The only reason I wanted to keep was because I knew we would have take a massive loss.I remember supporting Fellaini a bit last year and you get a lot of stick when you do that, so it's surprising to see so many "I knew he'd come good" posts, but fair play @togg, @Walrus and @Robbie Boy all don't seem to be that harsh on the lad (although Robbie Boy seriously doubted during the world cup)
I agree with most of this - he wasnt the right signing for us at the time, and we overpaid, which is part of the reason for the animosity towards him.I didn't want to sign him we he wasn't what we needed but I thought he was a good player for Everton. I never necessarily doubted his ability as footballer; it was more that he was a terrible fit that wasn't utilised properly. Fair play to him, he's winning me over and I hope he has another good game against Villa tomorrow.
Eating my words here, which is a good thing in this case.I remember supporting Fellaini a bit last year and you get a lot of stick when you do that, so it's surprising to see so many "I knew he'd come good" posts, but fair play @togg, @Walrus and @Robbie Boy all don't seem to be that harsh on the lad (although Robbie Boy seriously doubted during the world cup)
Fellaini is the result of having too many pussies in midfield. He brings physicality that we need to bring some balance in midfield. Hence why I want Carrick to be replaced with someone whose more defensive minded. It would allow us to release both Herrera and Di Maria in CM.
meant to be I am in total agreement with that :-)and your point is?
If Fellaini carries on playing the way he's been doing in the last few games, I don't see why he can't start for us next season. On his day, he's absolutely unplayable, and gives us something different.
Next season, I can imagine our midfield trio's will be something like:
Fellaini - New B2B
Carrick
Fellaini - Herrera
Carrick
Herrera - New B2B
Carrick
I like Herrera, but I just can't see Van Gaal regularly starting him as a 10 next season. Although he's picked up a few goals this season, he's not really known for his goalscoring, and Van Gaal likes his goalscoring attacking midfielders. I could see Fellaini, on the other hand, picking up about 10-15 goals in the most advanced midfield position if played often.