g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });

Chain Draft (Main Thread)

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Didn't know the reset effect carried on to the reinforcement rounds too? Thought the standard club link rules were once again applicable during the reinforcement rounds and the reset effect was only during the drafting round. Abbadie-Varela-Andrade is playing the NT card in the drafting rounds and Varela-Andrade-Schiaffino during reinforcements is once again sort of like using the nationality card again. Or does the reset effect in that segment of the chain during the drafting round, carry on to the reinforcement rounds? If it was allowed then well-played there, great planning.
It's a reset of the chain, period. Once used the link between before and after ceases to exist. Of course, I didn't exactly plan it that way as I was oblivious to the reinforcements needing to not link to the player before the link, so it was handy that I used the NT then rather than planned.

In any case, I could pick Alcides through Hohberg and get Pepe anyway, I just want to give Abbadie the run he deserves and not just kick him out for a more famous name and combo. PS: Just realised it isn't the case as Ghiggia and Hohberg played together as well. Jammy! Anyhow, could have done Gonçalves-Míguez-Schiaffino... actuallly no can't either. Basically, you can't backtrack in time if you have stuck to a certain side, that's a major disadvantage that only now dawns on me.
 
Last edited:

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,472
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
One question though @Edgar Allan Pillow, what happens with the next reinforcement round? Do we follow the picking order or the branches? Point being that if, say, Tuppet picks someone linked to Augenthaler, does he need not to have played with Arbeloa (draft order) or with Reuter (branch)?
1st round 2nd pick continue with the branch, not the original draft order.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,472
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Didn't know the reset effect carried on to the reinforcement rounds too? Thought the standard club link rules were once again applicable during the reinforcement rounds and the reset effect was only during the drafting round. Abbadie-Varela-Andrade is playing the NT card in the drafting rounds and Varela-Andrade-Schiaffino during reinforcements is once again sort of like using the nationality card again. Or does the reset effect in that segment of the chain during the drafting round, carry on to the reinforcement rounds? If it was allowed then well-played there, great planning.
Once broken stays broken. No way it can be reestablished!

Anto squeezing every advantage permissible in the rules! :lol:
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
You are not evil enough

Means you are still evil, but not as evil as Anto
Nah, I never change rules, that's the point and why I'd like a co-mod for the Bamboozle draft (alternative is uploading the rules somewhere and sending a link after). I could see people feeling victimised and it's nothing like it, rule #1 will be "EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED", but that fate and all the mechanics will have been set in stone in advance. Who will they hit? We don't know, it willl hit you harder or not depending on decisions you have consciously or unconsciously made.

It's basically not a football draft, nothing you can 100% control, you just accept to be putty in my hands. Not for anyone, clearly.
 

diarm

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,899
OK, makes sense. So it's not a chain draft, it's a decision tree draft :lol:
You're not wrong on that. The excel timeline sheet I've been working since the beginning is getting out of hand! Here's a sneak peak without the names but you can continue scrolling down for about 15 seconds!

 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
SCHIAFFINO – Il Regista del Diavolo (the Devil's Regista)


“God has reserved the distribution of two or three small things which cannot be attained or countered by all the gold in the hands of the powerful ones: genius, beauty, happiness". When Gautier wrote these words in 1856 he could not know Juan Alberto Schiaffino, he could not know that this definition would fit perfectly. In the years of Liedholm the number ten is divided between the shoulders of the Baron and those, more slender and graceful, of "Pepe" Schiaffino.

God had given him a gift, a privilege: that of genius. Gianni Brera, still considered the greatest Italian football expert, thought as much:

Gianni Brera said:
There has never been a regista of greater value. Schiaffino seemed to have flashlights in his feet. He illuminated and invented the game with the simplicity that is typical of the great. He had an innate sense of geometry, he found the right position and pass almost by instinct.
Those who had the good fortune of seeing him play remember him, decades later and without a shadow of the slightest doubt, as the best player they have seen. Most of these refer to the final of the European Cup in 1958 as the game that settled it: Di Stefano, Puskas and Schiaffino were all on show and Milan lost 3-2 against Real Madrid, but it was Schiaffino, now thirty-four, who stole the show. Differently from the previous two, he had also won a World Cup, in memorable circumstances. After that game the Brazilian coach had only one thing to say: "Schiaffino was the unexpected that silenced all our ambition". From that day, Uruguayans had called him “el Dios del Futbol” (the God of Football).


Eduardo Galeano said:
He plays as if he were watching the field from the highest point in the stadium
Cesare Maldini said:
He had a radar for brains
Arrigo Sacchi said:
When I first saw Schiaffino I was 10... I was struck not only by his greatness when in possession of the ball, but also about how he had the property, the capacity, of being everywhere. He seemed to possess the gift of ubiquity
Schiaffino was a universal midfielder, he could do everything and read ahead the development of the game. He didn’t chase the ball, the ball ran towards him. Which brings us to another characteristic: he was silent, inscrutable but possessed an immense confidence in his own abilities, which often made him a bit stubborn and lippy. He was once suspended for five games after signalling at a ref with his hands that he was on the take, in front of the entire stadium.

He was also the only player known to talk back at captain Varela. The competitive tension between those two was the stuff of legend. One synthesised defensive play, the other synthesised attacking play, so it often resulted in orders/directives being barked in either direction. In 1950, during the final against Brazil and with the game still at 0:0, Varela demanded Schiaffino stopped fannying around the frontline testing defenders and made a more disciplined defensive effort by picking up a certain Brazilian player. “When you can pass the ball to me like I pass the ball to you I’ll take orders on my positioning”, he replied. Then against England in 1954, after Schiaffino moaned about poor service from the centrebacks Varela barked back “Take a woman” (basically, have a shag and chill the feck out).

Of course, there was nothing other than immense respect between the two, with Obdulio having overseen the formation and coming of age of the Death Squad. Schiaffino’s older brother, Raúl (NT and Peñarol forward) brought him to the club aged 16, and he tore up the reserves. As Raúl insisted he should be promoted, Varela argued the opposite: “they are very promising, but like a good wine we must let them come of age. Juan is ahead of the others, with the seniors he will be behind... and then they will be gone, and he will be alone. Let him stay with that frontline that’s forming around him and bring them all up when they are ready”. The outcome: he got his first cap aged 18, before even playing for Peñarol’s first team, but when he finally got promoted he no longer was a talented skinny little kid. He was boss, and went on to win five national titles and score 88 goals in 227 games.


From an early age he was considered a football intellectual, but one that didn’t only theorise, compute and resolve in an abstract way: he could also execute in practice. He was the tactical and technical conscience of the teams he played for. He was an enemy of football dogmas and conventional wisdom, like the one establishing the forwards should wait for the ball or that anticipation was only a defensive recourse. He was a pioneer of one-touch play, which better helped exploit the fact he was several seconds ahead of anyone on the pitch. His preeminence was based on his power of discernment, his serene impartiality that allowed him not to get dragged by the urgencies and pressures of the match. He wasn’t affected by temporary adversity, the importance of getting a result, the clock running or the urgency cascading from the stands. A footballing Spartan.

When in 1984 the Italian Federation’s Coversiano Technical Centre consulted the Serie A managers on who had been the greatest foreign player in Serie A all but two responded: Schiaffino. He left an indelible mark not just through his football, but other innovations he brought about:

1. Brera credits him as the one introducing the slide tackle in Italy. This must be some translation issue I suppose, it must be some very specific form of slide tackle surely. But he does mention how referees weren’t used to it so erroneously whistled foul.

2. He pushed for changes to how Milanello was run regarding admission of women and clearly defined schedules for training and resting.

3. Upon joining Roma, aged 35 and without the physical conditioning he used to possess, he applied his intact brain and football intelligence playing between the defence and the goalkeeper: and thus the role of libero was born. Rumour has it that he was impassable.

 
Last edited:

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Thank God I joined and didn't stick to being a sounding board for @diarm, that spreadsheet would have done my head in :lol:
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,247
It's a reset of the chain, period. Once used the link between before and after ceases to exist. Of course, I didn't exactly plan it that way as I was oblivious to the reinforcements needing to not link to the player before the link, so it was handy that I used the NT then rather than planned.
A nice break then. It would have been epic planning to get 4 players who've played together in the same side though.
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,247
You're not wrong on that. The excel timeline sheet I've been working since the beginning is getting out of hand! Here's a sneak peak without the names but you can continue scrolling down for about 15 seconds!

:lol:
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
A nice break then. It would have been epic planning to get 4 players who've played together in the same side though.
Actually, my plans included that since I was oblivious to that rule, I certainly planned to get several 60s Peñarol players.

Had Pepe not been available, I would have gone Hohberg-Spencer-Joya, resulting in 4 concurrent players (these two plus Tito + Figueroa).

That's where losing Hohberg hits me badly: I can't pick any pair starting from Tito or Figueroa. That's why I asked earlier about picking players twice.

In any case, that side pretty much coexisted and disappeared in one season after Peñarol hired a Brazilian (Brandão) as a Vilas Boas of sorts to clear up the legendary but aging dead wood. There's no forward links as the players who were still young (Figueroa, Mazurkiewicz, Rocha) left in shock at how the likes of Joya and Abbadie were treated.

So it's the end of the line for the Peñarol end of the story, now the story arch moves to how that 54 side, and Pepe in particular, changed Italian football courtesy of the pen of their most influential football critic: the legendary Gianni Brera.
 

mazhar13

Kermit Inc. 2022
Scout
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
37,048
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
Alright, so I've decided to take advantage of the open reinforcements rule and will be picking these two players who have been Champions League winners with Barcelona:


Carles Puyol


Samuel Eto'o
 

mazhar13

Kermit Inc. 2022
Scout
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
37,048
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
mazhar13: 1. P. Falcao 2. di Bartolomei (Roma) 3. Tassotti (Milan) 4. Savicevic (Milan) 5. Jugovic (Red Star) 6. J. Zanetti (Inter) 7. R. Carlos (Inter) 8. Rivaldo (Palmeiras) 9. Couto (Barcelona) 10. Popescu (Barcelona) 11. van Breukelen (PSV) 12. Nielsen (PSV) 13. Puyol (Rivaldo-Barca) 14. Eto'o (Barcelona)

antohan: 1. Facchetti 2. Boninsegna (Inter) 3. Scirea (Juve) 4. Altafini (Juve) 5. L. Buffon (Milan) 6. Julio César Abbadie (Genoa) 7. O. Varela (Peñarol) 8. V. R. Andrade (NT) 9. Juan Eduardo Hohberg (Peñarol) 10. Néstor Gonçalves (Peñarol) 11. Elías Ricardo Figueroa (Peñarol) 12. T. Cubillas (Ft. Lauderdale Strikers) 13. J.A. Schiaffino (Andrade-Peñarol)

MJJ (crappy)
: 1. Romario 2. Guardiola (Barca) 3. Figo (Barca) 4. Vieira (Inter) 5. Henry (Arsenal) 6. Deschamps (Juve) 7. Kohler (Juve) 8. Sammer (Dortmund) 9. Kahn (NT) 10. Kroos (Bayern) 11. Marcelo (Real) 12. Thiago Silva 13. Lahm (Kahn-Bayern)

diarm
: 1. R. Baggio 2. Tacconi (Juve) 3. Tardelli (Juve) 4. G. Baresi (Inter) 5. Klinsmann (Inter) 6. Campbell (Spurs) 7. Scholes (NT) 8. Cantona (United) 9. Amoros (Marseille) 10. Bokšić (Marseille) 11. Veron (Lazio) 12. Gary Neville (United) 13. Völler (Amoros-OM)

Cutch
: 1. Passarella 2. Bergomi (Inter) 3. Bergkamp (Inter) 4. Davids (Ajax) 5. Vierchowod (Juve) 6. Conti (Roma) 7. P. Rossi (NT) 8. Evani (Milan) 9. Donadoni (Milan) 10. Panucci (Milan) 11. De Rossi (Roma) 12. Morgan De Sanctis (Roma) 13. Cafu (Panucci-Roma)

Skizzo
: 1. J. Charles 2. O. Sivori (Juve) 3. Del Sol (Juve) 4. Santamaria (Real) 5. Pirri (Real) 6. Camacho (Real) 7. Chendo (Real) 8. Hierro (Real) 9. L. Enrique (NT) 10. Riquelme (Barcelona) 11. Tevez (Boca) 12. Buffon (Juve) 13. Cannavaro (Buffon-Juve)

The Stain
: 1. Robson 2. Giggs (United) 3. Stam (United) 4. Kaka (Milan) 5. Essien (Real) 6. A. Cole (Chelsea) 7. Beckham (NT) 8. Van Nistelrooy (United) 9. Iwan (PSV) 10. Koeman (Feyenoord) 11. Gerets (PSV) 12. Preud'homme (Standard) 13. Robben (RvN-Real)

Tuppet (VivaJ)
: 1. Van Hanegem 2. Gullit (Feyenoord) 3. Costacurta (Milan) 4. Nesta (Milan) 5. Nedved (Lazio) 6. Del Piero (Juve) 7. Peruzzi (Juve) 8. Reuter (Juve) 9. Kopke (Nurnberg) 10. Makelele (Marseille) 11. Benzema (France) 12. Arbeloa (Real Madrid) 13. Augenthaler (Reuter-Bayern)

@antohan
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
In my last game @Annahnomoss kept dissing Boninsegna and Altafini saying they couldn't be that good if they had never been picked... Nothing of the sort. The issue is, it is obviously much more convenient to pick players that can combine the best of both. If you can get a classic centreforward who can be a great finisher in the box be it aerially or with ball on deck, lead the line and provide hold up play and knock balls down for others. That is, if you can get a complete centreforward unit you can have two players for the price of one.

It's a no-brainer really. I pick the player @Gio once described as "Vieri on steroids" so he can once again relive that devastating AC Milan partnership under Bela Guttman.


Now, I know the Scot is spontaneously combusting while laughing hysterically (where's that EAP gif?). I also know that someone will do an Annah digging up so-called "inconsistencies", so I'll make it easy for them: this match contains some of the most ludicrous shit you'll ever hear from me.

That's what you call "force majeure" but, as a former prop, I know the importance of timing: "get set, hold, hoooold, hooooooold, ENGAGE!". How do you beat a team like the one Gio had? Firstly, don't talk about Xavi, Davids, Platini or Rivaldo: it's a losing battle so just try get them to fly under the radar... somehow. Second, don't talk about Moreno since nobody cares and all you may get is people appreciating what a cracking player he was. Of course there was an argument to be made on whether that midfield could work, but you know how those always end: "X to win it anyway in a moment of individual brilliance".

The only option to win this was turning the game into a battle of the strikers. What you don't do is try win that argument quickly: it only leads to discussing all the other players. Nope, you stick a superb but relatively unknown striker upfront and go about the business of comparing the two. It doesn't really matter if people buy your -excellent- striker or not. What matters is that by hook and crook you slowly get everyone involved to perceive the game as a battle between two relative unknowns. You frame their perception, you give them cold feet by playing on their first-hand ignorance. And you stick to that arcane path for as long as you can (hooooold, hoooooold), i.e. until the scoreline is on the verge of being unrecoverable. Then at 15-10 down you take off your unknown and put Henry upfront (ENGAGE!). "Easy decision now, I know Henry!" and that starts the comeback scoring 10 votes to 1 in the remainder of the game.

Anyhow, Nordahl, top striker, do yourself a favour and watch the clip above with a selection of the many goals he and Schiaffino scored in that 1954-55 season. Tremendous firepower.

 
Last edited:

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
mazhar13: 1. P. Falcao 2. di Bartolomei (Roma) 3. Tassotti (Milan) 4. Savicevic (Milan) 5. Jugovic (Red Star) 6. J. Zanetti (Inter) 7. R. Carlos (Inter) 8. Rivaldo (Palmeiras) 9. Couto (Barcelona) 10. Popescu (Barcelona) 11. van Breukelen (PSV) 12. Nielsen (PSV) 13. Puyol (Rivaldo-Barca) 14. Eto'o (Barcelona)

antohan: 1. Facchetti 2. Boninsegna (Inter) 3. Scirea (Juve) 4. Altafini (Juve) 5. L. Buffon (Milan) 6. Julio César Abbadie (Genoa) 7. O. Varela (Peñarol) 8. V. R. Andrade (NT) 9. Juan Eduardo Hohberg (Peñarol) 10. Néstor Gonçalves (Peñarol) 11. Elías Ricardo Figueroa (Peñarol) 12. T. Cubillas (Ft. Lauderdale Strikers) 13. J.A. Schiaffino (Andrade-Peñarol) 14. Nordahl (AC Milan)

MJJ (crappy)
: 1. Romario 2. Guardiola (Barca) 3. Figo (Barca) 4. Vieira (Inter) 5. Henry (Arsenal) 6. Deschamps (Juve) 7. Kohler (Juve) 8. Sammer (Dortmund) 9. Kahn (NT) 10. Kroos (Bayern) 11. Marcelo (Real) 12. Thiago Silva 13. Lahm (Kahn-Bayern)

diarm
: 1. R. Baggio 2. Tacconi (Juve) 3. Tardelli (Juve) 4. G. Baresi (Inter) 5. Klinsmann (Inter) 6. Campbell (Spurs) 7. Scholes (NT) 8. Cantona (United) 9. Amoros (Marseille) 10. Bokšić (Marseille) 11. Veron (Lazio) 12. Gary Neville (United) 13. Völler (Amoros-OM)

Cutch
: 1. Passarella 2. Bergomi (Inter) 3. Bergkamp (Inter) 4. Davids (Ajax) 5. Vierchowod (Juve) 6. Conti (Roma) 7. P. Rossi (NT) 8. Evani (Milan) 9. Donadoni (Milan) 10. Panucci (Milan) 11. De Rossi (Roma) 12. Morgan De Sanctis (Roma) 13. Cafu (Panucci-Roma)

Skizzo
: 1. J. Charles 2. O. Sivori (Juve) 3. Del Sol (Juve) 4. Santamaria (Real) 5. Pirri (Real) 6. Camacho (Real) 7. Chendo (Real) 8. Hierro (Real) 9. L. Enrique (NT) 10. Riquelme (Barcelona) 11. Tevez (Boca) 12. Buffon (Juve) 13. Cannavaro (Buffon-Juve)

The Stain
: 1. Robson 2. Giggs (United) 3. Stam (United) 4. Kaka (Milan) 5. Essien (Real) 6. A. Cole (Chelsea) 7. Beckham (NT) 8. Van Nistelrooy (United) 9. Iwan (PSV) 10. Koeman (Feyenoord) 11. Gerets (PSV) 12. Preud'homme (Standard) 13. Robben (RvN-Real)

Tuppet (VivaJ)
: 1. Van Hanegem 2. Gullit (Feyenoord) 3. Costacurta (Milan) 4. Nesta (Milan) 5. Nedved (Lazio) 6. Del Piero (Juve) 7. Peruzzi (Juve) 8. Reuter (Juve) 9. Kopke (Nurnberg) 10. Makelele (Marseille) 11. Benzema (France) 12. Arbeloa (Real Madrid) 13. Augenthaler (Reuter-Bayern)

@MJJ @crappycraperson
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
mazhar13: 1. P. Falcao 2. di Bartolomei (Roma) 3. Tassotti (Milan) 4. Savicevic (Milan) 5. Jugovic (Red Star) 6. J. Zanetti (Inter) 7. R. Carlos (Inter) 8. Rivaldo (Palmeiras) 9. Couto (Barcelona) 10. Popescu (Barcelona) 11. van Breukelen (PSV) 12. Nielsen (PSV) 13. Puyol (Rivaldo-Barca) 14. Eto'o (Barcelona)

antohan: 1. Facchetti 2. Boninsegna (Inter) 3. Scirea (Juve) 4. Altafini (Juve) 5. L. Buffon (Milan) 6. Julio César Abbadie (Genoa) 7. O. Varela (Peñarol) 8. V. R. Andrade (NT) 9. Juan Eduardo Hohberg (Peñarol) 10. Néstor Gonçalves (Peñarol) 11. Elías Ricardo Figueroa (Peñarol) 12. T. Cubillas (Ft. Lauderdale Strikers) 13. J.A. Schiaffino (Andrade-Peñarol) 14. Nordahl (AC Milan)

MJJ (crappy)
: 1. Romario 2. Guardiola (Barca) 3. Figo (Barca) 4. Vieira (Inter) 5. Henry (Arsenal) 6. Deschamps (Juve) 7. Kohler (Juve) 8. Sammer (Dortmund) 9. Kahn (NT) 10. Kroos (Bayern) 11. Marcelo (Real) 12. Thiago Silva 13. Lahm (Kahn-Bayern) 14. Neuer (Bayern)

diarm
: 1. R. Baggio 2. Tacconi (Juve) 3. Tardelli (Juve) 4. G. Baresi (Inter) 5. Klinsmann (Inter) 6. Campbell (Spurs) 7. Scholes (NT) 8. Cantona (United) 9. Amoros (Marseille) 10. Bokšić (Marseille) 11. Veron (Lazio) 12. Gary Neville (United) 13. Völler (Amoros-OM)

Cutch
: 1. Passarella 2. Bergomi (Inter) 3. Bergkamp (Inter) 4. Davids (Ajax) 5. Vierchowod (Juve) 6. Conti (Roma) 7. P. Rossi (NT) 8. Evani (Milan) 9. Donadoni (Milan) 10. Panucci (Milan) 11. De Rossi (Roma) 12. Morgan De Sanctis (Roma) 13. Cafu (Panucci-Roma)

Skizzo
: 1. J. Charles 2. O. Sivori (Juve) 3. Del Sol (Juve) 4. Santamaria (Real) 5. Pirri (Real) 6. Camacho (Real) 7. Chendo (Real) 8. Hierro (Real) 9. L. Enrique (NT) 10. Riquelme (Barcelona) 11. Tevez (Boca) 12. Buffon (Juve) 13. Cannavaro (Buffon-Juve)

The Stain
: 1. Robson 2. Giggs (United) 3. Stam (United) 4. Kaka (Milan) 5. Essien (Real) 6. A. Cole (Chelsea) 7. Beckham (NT) 8. Van Nistelrooy (United) 9. Iwan (PSV) 10. Koeman (Feyenoord) 11. Gerets (PSV) 12. Preud'homme (Standard) 13. Robben (RvN-Real)

Tuppet (VivaJ)
: 1. Van Hanegem 2. Gullit (Feyenoord) 3. Costacurta (Milan) 4. Nesta (Milan) 5. Nedved (Lazio) 6. Del Piero (Juve) 7. Peruzzi (Juve) 8. Reuter (Juve) 9. Kopke (Nurnberg) 10. Makelele (Marseille) 11. Benzema (France) 12. Arbeloa (Real Madrid) 13. Augenthaler (Reuter-Bayern)

@diarm
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,191
Location
Interweb
Sorry had to check that thread

Erico vs. Nordahl

There's a world of difference between the two, despite Gio selling Nordahl as the best thing since sliced bread and "Christian Vieri on steroids".

Firstly, he will tell you Erico never played for Paraguay. True, he couldn't, as foreign-based players were banned, and he opted not to play for Argentina despite being offered ridiculous sums to do so. He will also tell you Nordahl scored 43 goals in his 33 caps.

Let's look at that. Firstly, they were all friendly games (+a very rubbish post-war Olympic tourno). In 11 of those games he didn't score at all, which implies he freescored in others. Indeed, he racked up 15 of those goals in four games against Norway, aggregate score 24-5. Another eight goals were scored against Denmark and four against Hungary in 1943 (god knows what those war-time games looked like). He also scored 3 in a 7-0 drubbing of Finland and 4 in a 12-0 drubbing of South Korea. All in all, there's nothing to read into it.

He will also tell you that until recently he was the highest ever goalscorer in Serie A, five-time top scorer, averaging just under one goal per game at his peak.

What you are not told is Serie A used to have 20 teams then (38 games), when for most of the 60s, 70s and 80s it had 16 (30 games). That's one reason you find so many 50s top scorers ever there. Just look at the chaps who contested and sometimes beat him to top scorer: Istvan Nyers, who wouldn't get a look in for Hungary, and John Hansen, some Danish chap with 8 caps.

The other reason is Italian defences were rubbish. Seriously, Herrera only brought in Catenaccio in the 60s. Let's ignore number of games and Nordahl specifically. During his best years there were 3 goals per game, on average in Serie A, while in the 60s, 70s and 80s the average was 2 per game. So if we adjust for that, Nordahl's record is less than two every three games. That is worse than Vieri. He is no Vieri on steroids, not even Vieri, but a poor man's Christian Vieri.
:lol:
 

The Stain

Soccer Manager's Highwayman
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
12,417
Accuses people of tactical voting -> Picks 2 players from the losing side. Have to see the irony there, eh? ;)
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Sorry had to check that thread

:lol:
It's awesome, isn't it? Paved the way for all sorts of obscure discussions on stats and their value, I even tried to run regressions with their scoring records but couldn't get my old Uni software to work.

Great work, very proud. If I'm not mistaken, towards the end Gio realises he hasn't even talked about Rivaldo at all :lol:
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Accuses people of tactical voting -> Picks 2 players from the losing side. Have to see the irony there, eh? ;)
We've done this to death now. The only person I needed to explain myself to was GS. I didn't argue anything at all during the game and my vote was irrelevant anyway.

TBH, I had given up on Pepe (said as much during my game) and had a cracking path planned that would have brought together the remainder of that '66 side and Enzo. An all-time Peñarol of sorts.

Mind, it was handy GS went out as once I realised how the rules really worked that was shot to pieces (game was long finished by then though).
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
At one point I even posted the historical goals per game progression in Serie A over four decades. All prepared in advance of course. I reckon Gio must have spent about half the game crunching numbers to work out whether there was any truth in that :lol: