Rooney plus cash for Stones ?
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He will, but its taking longer and longer for him to find form after a layoff/summer. There will come a point where hes spending more time finding form that he is in it, and i think that could be this season.
Another issue is his captaincy and general status at the club. He will leave big shoes to fill and with that agent of his wont go quietly if we dont handle his phasing out properly.
Yeah it will be tricky when he leaves. The transfer fee will be very little since most clubs won't be prepared to eat a 260k/wk wage bill
I've never really understood being annoyed by people having an opinion on a board designed for that in truth. If a topic starts to grate just don't click on the thread is my method, like the circular Fellaini debate.
That would be rather one sided wouldn't it. The purpose of this board is to discuss points and counterpoints.
But saying "Stop moaning even though I agree he's playing shite" is not really debating the points, right now there isn't anything to debate with Rooney in fairness, his performances are rancid hence people are annoyed, I think more because he just keeps playing regardless, where everyone else is dropped when they have poor form.
Yeah he's clearly mentally shot. No physical issues. He's a second behind the game these days... reluctance to pass, reluctance to shoot, reluctance to make runs.
Seeing all this talk of Rooney 2015 = Rvp 2014, I checked out the Fenerbahce page...
Nani 4 goals 2 assists (6 starts)
RvP 2 goals 1 assist (4 starts)
Not bad but no earth-shakingly good either
Nani 4 goals 2 assists (6 starts)
RvP 2 goals 1 assist (4 starts)
Not bad but no earth-shakingly good either
They are still good players who can contribute. Having looked at our wage bill, which is still the highest in the Prem this year, it quickly became clear that we moved each of them on because they were past their respective primes and we needed to reduce our wage bill after pursuing players like Schweinsteiger. Same will probably be the case for Rooney next year.
He's only good for 1/3 of the season, the rest of the time he's spent looking like utter shit or injured. Moyes fecked this club in more ways than just the results on the pitch.
Is he finished as a man utd player? He cannot seems to contribute anymore
I would not say no to that!Rooney plus cash for Stones ?
I've been defending our captain in the newb forums since I started, saying form is temporary, class is permanent and all those other clichés. Genuinely thought he'd reach top form soon, especially considering the fairly reasonable start to the season we were given in terms of who we were playing, and put to rest all those who were slating the guy.
Last few games he's played he doesn't seem to be improving at all and yesterday was slowing the match down way too much. Starting to feel it's time he was dropped and herrera / mata play in the no. 10 role with martial as the no. 9
Last few games he's played he doesn't seem to be improving at all and yesterday was slowing the match down way too much. Starting to feel it's time he was dropped and herrera / mata play in the no. 10 role with martial as the no. 9
looks so slow and uninterested. he needs to step up quickly if not then time to drop him.
The debate isn't on whether he should be sold now or not is it, when the window is shut and it's obvious he's here for the season. It's on whether he should be starting games when he's in a terrible run of form / looking past it.
It's conceivable that he will hit form and play closer to what he did before, but is that the best option for the team, to play him into form? Do we have better options already perhaps - I wouldn't play Fellaini ahead of Rooney as a #10 as he's got worse first touch, is more static, with a lesser passing range and handles being pressed even worse (he's a decent sub to have though, at times) - but I'd prefer to see Herrera instead of Rooney when he's not giving the manager a reason for picking him.
We've carried him this season but it's not just Louis who hypes him up, the whole team seems to speak incredibly highly of him which might be part Wayne's world codependency and part being his importance to the team due to his career history with the club given our team is brand new. If he could hold that influence and not sulk if he were dropped but instead play himself into the team in training, that'd be really neat.
It's conceivable that he will hit form and play closer to what he did before, but is that the best option for the team, to play him into form? Do we have better options already perhaps - I wouldn't play Fellaini ahead of Rooney as a #10 as he's got worse first touch, is more static, with a lesser passing range and handles being pressed even worse (he's a decent sub to have though, at times) - but I'd prefer to see Herrera instead of Rooney when he's not giving the manager a reason for picking him.
We've carried him this season but it's not just Louis who hypes him up, the whole team seems to speak incredibly highly of him which might be part Wayne's world codependency and part being his importance to the team due to his career history with the club given our team is brand new. If he could hold that influence and not sulk if he were dropped but instead play himself into the team in training, that'd be really neat.
I would not be surprised if LvG sells him next summer if this continues. Captain or not, LvG is ruthless. He saw RVP was in decline and looked physically shot and made the honest assessment that it was best he move. The question is, if he did move, where could he realistically go? Not many teams can afford his wages. But hopefully for our and his sake, this is a rough patch in form and he will start scoring again in bucket loads like usual.
Absolutely shambolic performance. Even his first touch is now letting him down. There were many instances when Martial and Memphis made some bright runs behind the Saints back 4 and he just did not take a chance. A Mata or Herrera would have definitely attempted that. I get it, Herrera and Mata may not be the perfect no.10 but still they make that effort of trying those through balls.
All Rooney kept on doing was spraying ball from one end to the other which did not help when we were counter-attacking. He is really a waste of space currently and needs to be dropped.
All Rooney kept on doing was spraying ball from one end to the other which did not help when we were counter-attacking. He is really a waste of space currently and needs to be dropped.
Any other player would have been dropped to bench a long time ago.
Not exactly the stuff you'd expect from the captain and club's top earner.
Not exactly the stuff you'd expect from the captain and club's top earner.
I wonder if it's a case of him not being able to adapt.
Wayne Rooney has always had a special talent from an early age. He had that X-factor and the football brain that made him stand out and unfortunately, in my opinion, the versatility to play in a number of positions. In his early years, he was allowed to play with his instincts - his 'street football' type style, where he'd take on defenders, go for spectacular shots, while running back to defend in his own box. Needless to say, that's the Rooney we all remember fondly.
With each year, as he gets older, and as he's slowly moved away from his street football type game, its not surprising to see that he's no longer the same type of player. To make matters worse, rather than playing his preferred ST role, we've all seen him shifted onto the Wing and into Center Mid, under Fergie's last few seasons, under Moyes and now under LVG.
Now that he's back as a ST under LVG, a manager known for his philosophy and a set of unique roles for each of the players in his system - I honestly think Rooney doesn't have a clue about what he's supposed to do.
Don't get me wrong, the talent is clearly still there, as is his experience and leadership quality, but I suspect that more so than Fergie and Moyes, he's really been asked to reign in his instincts (which made him a worldclass player in the first place) and opposed to taking the speculative shot or pass, to instead, shift the ball or to maintain possession - which would explain why he's so dire...
I would clearly like to see him banging in the goals again- but I honestly don't think that under LVG, we're going to see much from Rooney, aside from the occasional glimpses of his ability.
Wayne Rooney has always had a special talent from an early age. He had that X-factor and the football brain that made him stand out and unfortunately, in my opinion, the versatility to play in a number of positions. In his early years, he was allowed to play with his instincts - his 'street football' type style, where he'd take on defenders, go for spectacular shots, while running back to defend in his own box. Needless to say, that's the Rooney we all remember fondly.
With each year, as he gets older, and as he's slowly moved away from his street football type game, its not surprising to see that he's no longer the same type of player. To make matters worse, rather than playing his preferred ST role, we've all seen him shifted onto the Wing and into Center Mid, under Fergie's last few seasons, under Moyes and now under LVG.
Now that he's back as a ST under LVG, a manager known for his philosophy and a set of unique roles for each of the players in his system - I honestly think Rooney doesn't have a clue about what he's supposed to do.
Don't get me wrong, the talent is clearly still there, as is his experience and leadership quality, but I suspect that more so than Fergie and Moyes, he's really been asked to reign in his instincts (which made him a worldclass player in the first place) and opposed to taking the speculative shot or pass, to instead, shift the ball or to maintain possession - which would explain why he's so dire...
I would clearly like to see him banging in the goals again- but I honestly don't think that under LVG, we're going to see much from Rooney, aside from the occasional glimpses of his ability.
He should be behind Herrera and Fellaini in the pecking order for the #10 position on recent form. He has become a huge problem that doesn't look like being solved.
You just answered your own post. Whether or not you accept it or creating a wall of hypothetical reasons and excuses is another issue.
People keep on pointing on that 2011-2012 season while it's 4 years ago. Rooney is 30 this year? It's not wise to assume he can simply become the 4 years younger Rooney just because he's Rooney.
Embarrassing how Gary was trying to pin the blame for his form on LVG yesterday.
Forget about goals, he hasn't even has 5 shots on target this season in the league
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/13017/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
This is pretty telling, he's all over the park making passes without purpose
And here's Martial's
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...r-stats/148225/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/13017/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
This is pretty telling, he's all over the park making passes without purpose
And here's Martial's
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...r-stats/148225/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
I've already said in another thread I see no place for him in Van Gaal's new team. He's simply not a no.10 and if Van Gaal continues to play him there he'll only hold Martial back.
With Rooney at no. 9 - we were dire and scored 2 goals (apart from the OG) in 4 games. With Martial playing the same position, we have 6 goals in 2 games. Isn't that a clear indication of Rooney's performances?
Now - he has moved to no. 10 to accommodate the skill, pace and creativity that Martial has shown. No. 10 is where he played most of last season (and wasn't very good). There will be a period of 5-10 games (I'm sure) where Rooney will look like the real deal, but the question that LVG needs to answer is whether that is worth the team carrying him for the remaining 40-50 games??
Now - he has moved to no. 10 to accommodate the skill, pace and creativity that Martial has shown. No. 10 is where he played most of last season (and wasn't very good). There will be a period of 5-10 games (I'm sure) where Rooney will look like the real deal, but the question that LVG needs to answer is whether that is worth the team carrying him for the remaining 40-50 games??
How does playing Rooney at No. 10 hold Martial back? I'd imagine it holds Herrera back.
His contract tuns till 2019. Imagine how he'll be then at 34. Will be a sight.
Wow!! Rooney's map has 1 successful 'forward' pass (though it has a lot of blues) ... That is really really dire.
He's holding everyone back. In last match he looks positionally very off, there were times him and Mata clashing trying to get into the same position. He leaves a very big hole in the middle, he offers nothing but acting like a lamp post with his sideways passing and back to whomever passing to him. It counts as a pass sure but in the grand scheme of things he's not needed there, his position would better be occupied by Herrera who overs alot going forward. Check the link above on his stats, there's really nothing in his game, no interception, not even one single successful forward pass.
We're like playing with 10 men, and if that isn't holding the team back I don't know which is.
Wasn't Rooney playing at 10 with Martial at 9?... Anyway, this thread is a bit of an icon at the moment. Roll onto the next game.
Not a single pass into the box. Jesus
I fully agree with you. My only point to your post was that, playing him at no. 10 doesn't really hold Martial back (as much as it does Herrera). Rooney is playing at no. 10 to accommodate Martial. If he played at no. 9, then it would hold Martial back.He's holding everyone back. In last match he looks positionally very off, there were times him and Mata clashing trying to get into the same position. He leaves a very big hole in the middle, he offers nothing but acting like a lamp post with his sideways passing and back to whomever passing to him. It counts as a pass sure but in the grand scheme of things he's not needed there, his position would better be occupied by Herrera who overs alot going forward. Check the link above on his stats, there's really nothing in his game, no interception, not even one single successful forward pass.
We're like playing with 10 men, and if that isn't holding the team back I don't know which is.
er.. having no service from Number 10 is holding Martial back, he won't perform as good as if we had a proper #10. We know how impatient the fans could be at times, lucky he made his own goal or it would have been "Martial's shit, Rooney back on 9"
Scoring on your debut could have a big domino effect on how he performs, the effect of having a goal to your name and being relaxed is underrated sometimes.
#10 is the most important attacking position on the pitch and supposed to be the creative conduit that holds and distributes for the entire attack. Rooney, as the #10, is supposed to be Martial's supplier with a constant stream of forward passes that probe and penetrate. He's also supposed to link up with his #9 more than any other player in short passing chains back and forth.
Rooney isn't offering anything as a #10 and if that continues, he'll actually stifle Martial's development and give him little chance to learn how to make runs away from the play and fine tune his game, or make runs at all in expectation or instinct his #10 will find, or even attempt to put him in.
Rooney is going to prevent Herrera getting on the pitch, which is a big problem for us and the Spaniard, but first and foremost he is going to stifle our entire attack and especially Martial if this level of play persists.
People say his legs have gone and so too his strength, but that shouldn't prevent him from passing the ball forward or attempting to at the very least. I'm more disappointed with this aspect of his play because even if he doesn't score many, to keep his place in the team he has to supply for others and he isn't even trying to do that, which really is concerning.
I was starting to believe people who said he don't get enough service to score goal early in this season but when you see what Martial has done in this last matches, not only creating chances for himself but also for others there is no excuses left for Wayne.
I think Martial's issue now will be to live up to the hype around him. He has had an immense start to his career here. Teams will now be aware of his threat and play him accordingly. That's the bit where Januzaj failed over the last 18 months.
Anyway - back to the topic. Unless LVG benches Rooney (which should be very close given his performances, and the 'discussion' on Sunday) and plays Herrera, I'd rather Rooney plays at 10 than at 9.
He's looking as average as van Persie did last season, which is not encouraging. Martial is clearly the better centre forward.
Fair enough. But you are assuming Rooney gets benched - I am assuming that he wont. Not yet. LVG loves Rooney for some reason (which is beyond me). In an ideal situation, I'd have Rooney gone from the club altogether (instead of being dropped), but that is not happening anytime soon.
It's true isn't it? When Rooney got his chances up front last season it was the same story, with the added evidence that Falcao and Van Persie weren't getting chances either. I was always skeptical of this opinion because people like Herrera and Mata regularly ended up in scoring positions.
The signing of Martial has instantly put those excuses to bed. A player who isn't afraid to run at the opposition defence, take players on and run in behind. If nothing else it stretches the opposition defence and creates room for others to play into.
A bit sad Herrera won't play cause of this guy.
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