I feel like @Balu would really appreciate my write up on Overath in particular.
40s Retro Football Fantasy Draft | Finished
- Thread starter Moby
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Yeah that sounds good.
I can't make jokes about Joga's walls of text anymore 
. You ruined my life, I hate all of you.
. You ruined my life, I hate all of you.You expect me to read all that?
That's quite a bizarre criticism of Overath by Weisweiler, unless of course age had caught up with him at that stage of his career.
I haven't read the long, long post about Overath yet, but Weisweiler was the same hypocrit as any other manager in the history of the game. So it's possible that he said that and then used Heinz Flohe instead of Overath as the main playmaker, who was even more lazy than Overath. Overath was well past his peak when Weisweiler joined Cologne and I'm sure you'll read in @Skizzo 's write up about Flohe that Overath was holding the team back and only once Flohe finally got his chance after Overath's retirement, he lead the club to glory.
Weisweiler went to Cologne in 76, Overath retired in 77 and Cologne won the league in 78.
You're right there. I just wanted to do one on Lubanski, because he is quite unknown and is very important for my team, not to mention that he is absolutely awesome. But than I found all these articles about Rivera and Dzajic and thought might as well dump them here.
You can't possibly be saying my writeups are long though, not after the book on Overath is published here
They always had off field issues I believe. He just used it as an excuse to drop Overath.
Barry Hulshoff
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Hulshoff was the central defender of Ajax's golden team along with Blankenburg, he was also known for scoring quite often for a defender, usually with his head. He should have been the sweeper for Holland in 1974 but he got injured and was unable to play the tournament. The Ajax team in which he was a pivotal member of, won three consecutive European Cups in 1971, 1972 and 1973.
Bernardus Adriaan Hulshoff is a former Dutch football player and coach. As a player he was part of the golden era of Ajax Amsterdam in the late 1960s to the beginning 1970s. An injury prevented his participation in the football World Cup in 1974. As a coach, he was mainly active in Belgium and the Netherlands.
Barry Hulshoff began his career in the youth of AVV Zeeburgia to play football. He left the club after quarrels and joined, as a 16-year-old, Ajax Amsterdam. His early days there were not just success and he was soon demoted from the A1 to A4 youth. At that time he had started to have been called "anti-football" and questions rose whether his typical defending nature compared with a total footballer. But in the A4 he was repositioned to the left-back defender and fate turned. Soon he was even captain of the youth national team coached by George Kessler and played alongside Johan Cruyff, Willy van der Kuijlen and Wim Jansen. In 1964 Hulshoff was eventually integrated into the senior squad of Ajax, but initially only played in the B-team. Between 1965 and 1966 he had his first games in the first team that won the championship in 1966 and 1967, and a year later, the Cup final against NAC Breda. From the season 1967/68, he had finally been accepted as a regular player and formed together a partnership in with the player coming from the European Cup finalists of 1966 Partizan and Yugoslav national team, Velibor Vasović, the libero. Ajax won in 1968, their third championship in a row. The introverted Hulshoff was not without controversy. First, it was to be technically unshod for the team, on the other Hulshoff was dissatisfied with his relationship with the stern coach Rinus Michels. "I never had a conversation with Michels, which lasted more than three minutes," he once complained. Hulshoff also said that Michels had never explained the real reasons for his decisions when he was not picked for the national team. At the end of the season 1968/69, the team won no new titles, but got into the European Cup final in 1969, the first time fully into the European spotlight. There, an AC Milan team awaited, with stars Karl-Heinz Schnellinger, Giovanni Trapattoni and the midfielder Gianni Rivera conductors. The young Dutchman could learn from the experience of the European Cup as Ajax lost 4-1 in a 32,000 capacity crowd at the bernabeu, in a game where many considered the result to reflect unfairly on how the match went.
Ajax came back to win in 1970, winning the double, championship trophy and two titles again, qualified once more for the European Champions Cup. 1971 found Ajax lose the championship to then chief rivals Feyenoord Rotterdam rise to prominence and they could only win the Cup, won the cup in style - the so-called Total Football. The first time they won the European Champions Cup was in a 2-0 final win at Wembley Stadium against Panathinaikos Athens. In October of that year, Barry Hulshoff celebrated his first international cap. In a 3-2 victory over the East Zone of the Netherlands he scored one of his now trademark run and goals with his head to level the game at 1-1. In this role he excelled in the formation created by František Fadrhonc for the national team. In the other two international matches this year, he also contributed with a goal in each. The first international match of 1972 - a 5-0 win in Greece – he even scored two. At club level, from the 1971/72 season, he found himself with a new partner in central defense – the player who had come from TSV 1860 Munich Horst; Blankenburg replaced the "thinker" from Velibor Vasović who had retired due to health reasons - and the Romanian Ştefan Kovacs left with Rinus Michels to go to Barcelona. In the eyes of many, Ajax pushed on and won in even more emphatic and entertaining style. In 1972, the most successful year in club history. The Cup was defended, they won back the championship - and in the European Cup final, this time in Rotterdam, Ajax faced and Inter Milan side with the defensive great Giacinto Facchetti, midfield conductor Sandro Mazzola and star striker Roberto Boninsegna. Inter were convincingly defeated with two Cruijff goals to finish the game 2-0. The fourth title of the year Ajax won in September in the two hard-fought games against the Copa Libertadores winners from CA Independiente Avellaneda bonarenser industrial suburb of the World Cup. In Argentina, Ajax achieved a draw and won 3-0 in the second leg of the tie. 1973 Ajax defended the championship and won for the third year in a row the European Champions Cup, this time thanks to a Johnny Rep goal in the fourth minute through a somewhat laboriously played out 1-0 victory over Juventus in Belgrade, in a game which distinguished the Amsterdam defence as a cut above the rest. This was for the time being the last great success of Ajax since the end of the season as Johan Cruyff left the club to join Rinus Michels at FC Barcelona, which began a sustained decline. The national team, however qualified for the FIFA World Cup 1974 in Germany. This was not least due to the one-time equipped with a distinctive beard Barry Hulshoff. He scored in September 1973 at the penultimate World Cup qualifier in Oslo three minutes into a 2-1 win against the Norwegians. This was his sixth and last international goal. In the remaining game in November he led the Oranje to a fortunate 0-0 draw against Belgium in order to qualify, which they did thanks to goal difference. This was Hulshoffs last international appearance. Participation in the World Cup was denied him by an injury, what was perceived by many as a significant weakening of the Dutch back line. In return, Barry Hulshoff was allowed a small cameo in the film Op de Hollandse Toer which director Wim Sonneveld did to comfort him in 1973.
Ajax won the championship with Barry Hulshoff only in 1977 following Cruyffs departure. In the following two seasons he had left Ajax to end his playing career at the MVV Maastricht. In 1987, Barry Hulshoff joined the coaching staff at Ajax. After the head coach of Ajax in January 1988, Johan Cruyff, retired from the office Ajax took a triumvirate consisting of Hulshoff, Antoine Kohn and Bobby Haarms to take leadership of the senior squad. This meant Barry Hulshoff was granted in May at the final of the European Cup Winners' Cup in Strasbourg against KV Mechelen the chance to sit on the bench as the managerAjax lost the game 1-0, conceding in the 15th minute. In the national championship Ajax finished second behind PSV Eindhoven and the triumvirate was replaced by the German Kurt Linder, who was already, in 1981/82, one of the head coaches at the club. Hulshoff remained until 1990. From the 1990s Hulshoff moved from Netherlands and Belgium was the center of his activities as he practiced there for KVC Westerlo, Lierse SK, KSK Beveren, Beerschot VAC, K. Sint-Truidense VV, SK Aalst between 2001 and 2002, the KV Mechelen. These endeavours were consistently unsuccessful and at Mechelen his side were relegated. In 2002 he returned to the Netherlands and was technical director at Willem II, where he also left in March of next year. There followed in 2005 he made a commitment help with training in the United States at Ajax Orlando, where he was to succeed his former team-mate Wim Suurbier. But even here the activity was not long, because Ajax Orlando went into debt and the club was disbanded. When he returned to the Netherlands in 2007, the former Belgian national team coach Jan Ceulemans , gave him the job ofmanaging and coaching the youth team.
What do we do about tactics?
You'll need to submit your 200-page tactical dossier to the gamemaster in advance of your match @Gol123
What time does the match start?
Same here
all those gifsMy tactics are 3000 words long so far, however, I will be gone for a few hours today and won't have it ready until later.
For what it's worth, from an outsiders' point of view those who write walls of text are at a huge disadvantage because people - even people who love football from decades ago - simply won't bother reading the player profiles and your team will just be filled up with unknown players. They may be great players but to most they'll just be names on a picture.
Less is more.
The walls of text copied and pasted from other sources just make me think that person doesn't have a clue about the player himself, which counts against them even further. Again that may not be true, it may be they have walls of text because they read up all about this player and know him as well as anyone on here, but that's how it looks.
Less is more.
The walls of text copied and pasted from other sources just make me think that person doesn't have a clue about the player himself, which counts against them even further. Again that may not be true, it may be they have walls of text because they read up all about this player and know him as well as anyone on here, but that's how it looks.
When presenting a player the readers/voters presumably know very little or nothing about, the main idea should be to highlight his strengths as a player (and his weaknesses, for that matter - better to do so yourself than having your opponent do so, which he probably will if there are glaring ones to point out):
What's your man good at, and why does his qualities suit your team? That's what a so-called scan voter is likely to take an interest in. Now, beyond that you can go wild with all sorts of interesting or funny anecdotes (I usually find those worthwhile reading myself - but that is a completely different sort of read) in the main thread - but you should focus on a concise presentation. If you don't, it will indeed probably end up counting against you - for the very reasons @Brwned suggests above.
Also a good idea - always - to credit your sources. I don't think people deliberately avoid doing so - but they should always do it. Copy/pasting a wall of text is fine by me (it's more convenient for the reader on here, for one thing), but a link to the original should be provided too.
Just my opinion, of course - there are no rules regarding this that I'm aware of (well, apart from basic copyright rules, that is), and people are free to do as they see fit.
What's your man good at, and why does his qualities suit your team? That's what a so-called scan voter is likely to take an interest in. Now, beyond that you can go wild with all sorts of interesting or funny anecdotes (I usually find those worthwhile reading myself - but that is a completely different sort of read) in the main thread - but you should focus on a concise presentation. If you don't, it will indeed probably end up counting against you - for the very reasons @Brwned suggests above.
Also a good idea - always - to credit your sources. I don't think people deliberately avoid doing so - but they should always do it. Copy/pasting a wall of text is fine by me (it's more convenient for the reader on here, for one thing), but a link to the original should be provided too.
Just my opinion, of course - there are no rules regarding this that I'm aware of (well, apart from basic copyright rules, that is), and people are free to do as they see fit.
The new Ashley Cole. Beware, Georgie Best.
But that is true for a lot of players here. So many of them are obscure and most people here weren't even alive when they were playing, let alone clued up enough to write about them. Plus, I feel these drafts are all about bringing to prominence unknown players and that a big bibliography helps to know them more.
I can't really say what others want or what kind of impression a wall of text has on them, but I love a short summary about the player in your own words. It shows that you know a bit about the player yourself, doesn't matter if you read up on him, watched footage/games or watched him live. Your own words tell a lot more than just copy/paste an article. Use it as a tease, tell something about the player, his role in the team or a cool story, maybe add one or two (not more!!!) quotes. Then link to a longer article or put an extended write-up/long article in spoilers, so that it doesn't hit me in the face. Let me make the decision if I want to read a more detailed article about him or not. If you overwhelm me with a huge wall of text before I even start reading, I usually skip it completely.
That's just my opinion and how I react to these long posts. I don't know how others feel about it and I don't want to tell anyone how to do their write-ups. Do as you please, but don't expect me to read so much in one go. That won't happen, even if it's about one of my favourite players.
That's just my opinion and how I react to these long posts. I don't know how others feel about it and I don't want to tell anyone how to do their write-ups. Do as you please, but don't expect me to read so much in one go. That won't happen, even if it's about one of my favourite players.
I feel that I can give my own impression about the players when we are in arguments. It saves going over the similar circular arguments that tend to happen occasionally.
I actually finished my tactical write up and it is long as shit. I feel like Brendan Rodgers.
I actually finished my tactical write up and it is long as shit. I feel like Brendan Rodgers.
I agree one of the main points of interest in this thing is bringing previously unknown players to prominence, but overwhelming people with a wall of text will achieve the exact opposite I feel. You need to pique their interest with a short intro touching on the key points, and after that they might feel intrigued enough to read a bibliography.
No-one reads bibliographies about things they have no prior knowledge of or interest in. There needs to be a step before that.
Hopefully, after reading my tactical write up (Which only touches on the players ability) they will be interested in reading about the player as well. I feel, the write ups I have posted in here for players aren't just for winning the draft but also to read very interesting stories about these players that I have researched on.
I also spent A lot of my tactics write up explaining possession football rather then my own tactics.
What website do you use to make a formation?
Most seem to favour http://sharemytactics.com/
Yeah, let's all stick with Sharemytactics for consistency.
Okay. You're the boss, bossman.
Ye, sharemytactics. Make sure you spell out their full names in caps. The players will cover the whole pitch. Forget write-ups, this is the nr one tip for winning a match.
No way. I'm designing my own thing. None of the sites are anywhere near good enough - they're all pretty shite, in fact.
I'm willing to use the dimensions of the basic image (in pixels) used by SMT, however, if that is what people generally go for.
The game is still not up?
I sent out my write up to @Aldo last night, may be he is not around and someone else would like to set it up ?
Just got back home. I'll set it up soon.
Can't find Gol123's formation graphic in the PM. I'll be back in around an hour or so so if someone else could please kick this game off once Gol123 sends his picture that would be great. Else I'll do it when I'm back. Thanks.
Still not received the formation picture.
This is taking too long. Will our match be delayed because of this, @Aldo?
No it will start on time. Two games can go on at the same time.
While we wait let's do another text attack, so I won't need to do that in the game. Found a nice little article about Van Beveren and his feud with Cruyff.
http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/ruud20010525.html
Johan Cruijff cost Holland two World Cups
Holland has been known for an attacking, entertaining style of football throughout the last 30 years. One of the masterminds behind their style was Johan Cruijff, the elegant dribbler and good finisher, who also set up attacks while showing his teammates where to go. What a blessing to have him around? By no means! The presence of Cruijff, and most of all his struggle for power behind the scenes, cost Holland dear. To be more exact, two World Cup titles! On the field, Johan Cruijff has been one of the best things that could ever happen to Dutch football, off the field he has been the worst by far.
Jan van Beveren, the extremely talented PSV-goalkeeper, was a man who played for the crowd. A wizard, capable of doing magical things between the posts. The best Holland had ever had, by a mile. Cruijff and Van Beveren, the biggest row in Dutch football history. With the most dramatic consequences. They must have been enemies since they first met. The tall and flexible Van Beveren opposed very heavily to all privileges Cruijff had in the Dutch squad: arriving late for trainingcamps, not having to play at all because of business-affaires, smoking in the dressingroom. And, like so often in Holland, it was about money. Van Beveren, not afraid of standing up against the emancipated Ajax-players, said: we're in it together, everyone has to work for a good result, so we all have the same rights and the same duties. But that was not the case in the Holland-team, Cruijff was the "animal to be created equal, but a little more equal than the others".
When Van Beveren got injured badly in 1973, Cruijff immediately took his chance to get rid of this powerthreatening teammate. With his big influence on coaches, he talked Amsterdam-born Jan Jongbloed into the squad for the World Cup 1974. He was a rather mediocre, elderly goalkeeper who previously had played just one cap, as a substitute in 1962. Of course Jongbloed, who never in his life had expected this invitation, gladly accepted a role in Cruijff's shadow, where Van Beveren - with the world at his feet - wanted to win the title and to get global recognition for the superb goalie he was. With both Cruijff and Van Beveren in the team, it had been to be seen who would have been considered as the greatest star in the Dutch team. Cruijff knew it, couldn't accept another superman beside him and persuaded coach Rinus Michels to draft in Jongbloed. Van Beveren still could have made it to the finals, since he had recovered in may. He just needed one or two weeks to regain match-fitness. But Michels urged him to play a meaningless testgame against Hamburger SV, or to stay at home. Other more or less injured players got the chance to prove their fitness until a couple of days before travelling to Germany. Van Beveren, had he gotten the same opportunity, would have been fit for the first match against Uruguay. It wasn't to be, Holland lost the final after conceding two soft goals.
Between 1974 and 1978, Cruijff again managed to keep his big rival out of the team. Because Van Beveren was in his best form they just couldn't ignore him, again the were some quarrels (Van Beveren left the team in 1975 but came back later) and in the end he was left on the bench behind three different goalkeepers. When he asked Jan Zwartkruis why he had been picked at all when it was clear that he would never play, the coach said: "Jan, don't blame, I am being manipulated. I have no chance." Cruijff had threatened never to play for Holland again, with Van Beveren in the same team. And the Dutch people would never have forgiven the coach, who let Cruijff go. Van Beveren knew enough, withdrew from the Dutch team after 32 caps. It was 1977, the world's best goalkeeper was just 29 years of age.
Jan van Beveren is the best goalkeeper the world has ever seen. But he's never recognized as the best, and that is mainly because he never made it to the stage of the World Cup. And that is because he wasn't a part of the Ajax-clan of the seventies. Everybody may say I'm crazy, I don't mind. I can judge him, I've seen many games of him, I can compare him to other goalies and .... I have a sense of soccer. He could stop shots like I've never seen anybody doing, and in a majestical style. He would have saved Müllers soft shot easily, with both eyes closed and with his left hand bound on his back. He would have had a fair chance to save Breitner's weak penalty-kick. Don't ever think that Van Beveren would have allowed Kempes and Bertoni to squeeze through and take Argentina to the worldtitle. With Jan van Beveren as their goalkeeper, Holland would have been World Cup winners in 1974 and 1978. Cruijff also wanted to be a world champion, but only if he could be the one and only star himself. And it proved to be not enough.
Holland has been known for an attacking, entertaining style of football throughout the last 30 years. One of the masterminds behind their style was Johan Cruijff, the elegant dribbler and good finisher, who also set up attacks while showing his teammates where to go. What a blessing to have him around? By no means! The presence of Cruijff, and most of all his struggle for power behind the scenes, cost Holland dear. To be more exact, two World Cup titles! On the field, Johan Cruijff has been one of the best things that could ever happen to Dutch football, off the field he has been the worst by far.
Jan van Beveren, the extremely talented PSV-goalkeeper, was a man who played for the crowd. A wizard, capable of doing magical things between the posts. The best Holland had ever had, by a mile. Cruijff and Van Beveren, the biggest row in Dutch football history. With the most dramatic consequences. They must have been enemies since they first met. The tall and flexible Van Beveren opposed very heavily to all privileges Cruijff had in the Dutch squad: arriving late for trainingcamps, not having to play at all because of business-affaires, smoking in the dressingroom. And, like so often in Holland, it was about money. Van Beveren, not afraid of standing up against the emancipated Ajax-players, said: we're in it together, everyone has to work for a good result, so we all have the same rights and the same duties. But that was not the case in the Holland-team, Cruijff was the "animal to be created equal, but a little more equal than the others".
When Van Beveren got injured badly in 1973, Cruijff immediately took his chance to get rid of this powerthreatening teammate. With his big influence on coaches, he talked Amsterdam-born Jan Jongbloed into the squad for the World Cup 1974. He was a rather mediocre, elderly goalkeeper who previously had played just one cap, as a substitute in 1962. Of course Jongbloed, who never in his life had expected this invitation, gladly accepted a role in Cruijff's shadow, where Van Beveren - with the world at his feet - wanted to win the title and to get global recognition for the superb goalie he was. With both Cruijff and Van Beveren in the team, it had been to be seen who would have been considered as the greatest star in the Dutch team. Cruijff knew it, couldn't accept another superman beside him and persuaded coach Rinus Michels to draft in Jongbloed. Van Beveren still could have made it to the finals, since he had recovered in may. He just needed one or two weeks to regain match-fitness. But Michels urged him to play a meaningless testgame against Hamburger SV, or to stay at home. Other more or less injured players got the chance to prove their fitness until a couple of days before travelling to Germany. Van Beveren, had he gotten the same opportunity, would have been fit for the first match against Uruguay. It wasn't to be, Holland lost the final after conceding two soft goals.
Between 1974 and 1978, Cruijff again managed to keep his big rival out of the team. Because Van Beveren was in his best form they just couldn't ignore him, again the were some quarrels (Van Beveren left the team in 1975 but came back later) and in the end he was left on the bench behind three different goalkeepers. When he asked Jan Zwartkruis why he had been picked at all when it was clear that he would never play, the coach said: "Jan, don't blame, I am being manipulated. I have no chance." Cruijff had threatened never to play for Holland again, with Van Beveren in the same team. And the Dutch people would never have forgiven the coach, who let Cruijff go. Van Beveren knew enough, withdrew from the Dutch team after 32 caps. It was 1977, the world's best goalkeeper was just 29 years of age.
Jan van Beveren is the best goalkeeper the world has ever seen. But he's never recognized as the best, and that is mainly because he never made it to the stage of the World Cup. And that is because he wasn't a part of the Ajax-clan of the seventies. Everybody may say I'm crazy, I don't mind. I can judge him, I've seen many games of him, I can compare him to other goalies and .... I have a sense of soccer. He could stop shots like I've never seen anybody doing, and in a majestical style. He would have saved Müllers soft shot easily, with both eyes closed and with his left hand bound on his back. He would have had a fair chance to save Breitner's weak penalty-kick. Don't ever think that Van Beveren would have allowed Kempes and Bertoni to squeeze through and take Argentina to the worldtitle. With Jan van Beveren as their goalkeeper, Holland would have been World Cup winners in 1974 and 1978. Cruijff also wanted to be a world champion, but only if he could be the one and only star himself. And it proved to be not enough.
You could of included van der kuijlen's role in all this as well, just to save me the hassle