I like this argument that we are an 8th placed team as though that's the default position.
Liverpool are in as false a league position as an LvG led Utd.
Liverpool are in as false a league position as an LvG led Utd.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
There is no such thing as a false league position. Cup competitions are where you can get lucky.I like this argument that we are an 8th placed team as though that's the default position.
Liverpool are in as false a league position as an LvG led Utd.
I thought Dortmund were tactically terrible, they stopped playing assertively at 2-0 (which was the next 45mins) & 3-1. Eventually it was too late to start again. They were asking to be done over.
It wasn't only about tactics, they couldn't sustain the intense pressing all over the pitch that they offered in the first half. They got a bit tired and Liverpool took control over the pitch. Maybe they got a bit complacent too.
That is how you play against Dortmund or Liverpool though. Sit in and let them blow themselves out and then pick them off.
I don't think I quite agree, the pressing team want you to sit in as well, though. You've got to defend higher up than the edge of your box surely or you can hardly pose a threat other than a quick break for 80mins is asking a lot & knackering for the MF & attack. Even 20 yards (sweeper-keeper) changes the shape of the game. Frightened of the offside not holding up, probably. I dunno, being not a top level footy manager (not in real life, anyway)
And LFC League position this season, 7th or lower, innit?
From here
http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool
From here
http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool
The logical inference then is that league position means nothing at all for the next season given Leicesters position.
Seems completely illogical to me. Leicester are top of the league because the tactics they have employed suit their player's capabilities to a tee. They are top by merit not by accident. I think the way they play would be perfect for beating Dortmund, for example, as they sit in, defend resolutely, play the percentages and use pace to counter.
League positions in one season can only act as a basic guide for future performance anyway.
Of course I would, but he has his limits as do all managers. Id prefer him over Mourinho because he would give youth more of a chance.
Some really weird claims being made in this thread
They were 10th when he took over. They're 8th currently and can go higher if they win their games in hand.
He's picked up more despite playing two games less.
What's so frustrating is how Liverpool with less resources than us have recognised an opportunity and replaced a flailing manager with a superior one, and now it looks like they're about to win the EL and I'd tip them to do very well next season with Klopp players.
On the other hand our chairman sits on his finger, focused more on securing an Uzbek Hedgetrimmer sponsorship deal while our fraud of a manager pisses about with bemusing tactical decisions as we plunge deeper into mediocrity.
On the other hand our chairman sits on his finger, focused more on securing an Uzbek Hedgetrimmer sponsorship deal while our fraud of a manager pisses about with bemusing tactical decisions as we plunge deeper into mediocrity.
We are still above them and in a cup semi also. Liverpool are prone to the odd great result but they are still pretty random. There is a concern that we have an inadequate manager so this might be as good as it gets so yes maybe they have more upside potential if their board gives him funds in the summer. But then again we might be getting Jose. The worst case scenario is LVG gets sacked and we give the job to Giggs. Then I can appreciate if we see a cafe meltdown because we will then be bringing a knife to a gun fight and expect a trainee manager to compete against Klopp, Pep, Conte, Pochettino, Wenger and Co. This is all hypothetical though.
this
3 yrs on and mega millions spent and another reboot. he was the guy. two yrs of jose' , and another title , the wheels come off and klopp comes in. we instead chose moyes and LVG.
It really hits home and put things in perspective, our club have made some very very poor decisions over the last 3 years. Makes you think if the board and Woodward are really upto running the football side of things.this
3 yrs on and mega millions spent and another reboot. he was the guy. two yrs of jose' , and another title , the wheels come off and klopp comes in. we instead chose moyes and LVG.
the old folks running the club think about image and the united way which was long ago lost. the money spinning is getting in the way and the lack of real vision is worrisome. all of them think chucking money around is the way to go. LVG and the many on the board should be tossed but the pounds coming in is all that matters. don't tarnish the brand.
I just need to vent it here, but I'd almost forgotten just how terrible Liverpool fans are. It's anecdotal for sure, but they are the only ones that creep out of the woodwork in my Facebook feed every time their team does something vaguely notable. And I have been in and around Facebook, so a large part of my "network" is made up of football folks, but still, it's always the Liverpool fans that cry out for attention (even when we lose, but that's another matter).
After yesterday it's been terrible, as if they think they won the Champions League. A reminder of why I generally hate Liverpool fans, and why I need Klopp to start fecking it up all around, like they've been doing in the league since his arrival, sooner rather than lather. I cannot stomach this becoming a regular occurrence.
So in short, Klopp out, Flopp in.
After yesterday it's been terrible, as if they think they won the Champions League. A reminder of why I generally hate Liverpool fans, and why I need Klopp to start fecking it up all around, like they've been doing in the league since his arrival, sooner rather than lather. I cannot stomach this becoming a regular occurrence.
So in short, Klopp out, Flopp in.
Ok - The context for asserting 'false' league position here is clearly with a view to next season though.
Having calmed down a bit, I am still on a high from last night. One of the great European nights really. Short of winning the CL, I'm happy we are in the Europa league this year to be honest. There has been some great ties I can't see us having had in the CL.
That's just not true though is it?
What an awful post. Can starts next season as a nailed on starter, and deservedly so.
Think they'll win the league next year. An extremely premature hunch.
Three.
Norwich City 4:5 Liverpool (Lallana 90'+5 winner)
Crystal Palace 1:2 Liverpool (Benteke 90'+6 pen winner)
Liverpool 4:3 Borussia Dortmund (Lovren 90'+1 winner)
We've won two after 90'
Manchester United 1:0 Sheffield United (Rooney 90'+3 pen winner)
Watford 1:2 Manchester United (Deeney OG 90' winner)
When he took over they were 3 points away from top 4. Currently they are worse off which I would constitute as not improving.Some really weird claims being made in this thread
They were 10th when he took over. They're 8th currently and can go higher if they win their games in hand.
He's picked up more despite playing two games less.
Assuming we beat Bournemouth and Everton in the next two games we'd only be 6 from the top four, assuming City beat Chelsea on Saturday. If City lose then the gap will be 3 points by the end of Wednesday.
It is. Football is back for me. It was a delight to beat you so thoroughly and yesterday is a game to remember for years to come. Even for neutrals.
Trading that for a generic CL campaign that ends as soon as you meet one of Bayern, Barca or Real? Nope. Last night is what football is all about.
You can't have been seeing much of Can lately. He's becoming immense.
Right, because the points difference at the start of the season means as much as at the end.
I'm more than happy for this to be the prevailing perception. Go unnoticed. A wholly reductive analysis of what constitutes improvement. Keep it up, sir.
Of course we are worried that Klopp will revitalise you guys. He at least seems to be able to inspire average players to play above themselves in big games. Let's put it this way, I think a whole lot of us were asking ourselves if United were down 3-1 against a (to that point) flying Dortmund, would LVG be on the touchline, screaming, cajoling and generally pushing his players and managing a comeback of last night's proportions? Answer: Ed actually having the balls to fire LVG tomorrow is more likely.
Suddenly he's making us look amazing? I take it you didn't see out performance against Soton a couple of weeks ago. Although our points haul doesn't suggest it, there here has been a lot of improvement since he joined us but we're far from amazing. The reactions on here when we play a good game or defeat a quality side are way over the top - some of you are so afraid of him making us a powerhouse again that it's starting to look silly.
It's close to the end and their further off than when he started.
I'm supposed to be impressed by Liverpool this season? I haven't been. They've been a team that's had a hard time closing out games and were only two minutes from being talked about completely different on here.
The simplest benchmark would be to compare them to United since this is a United forum. United have barely played well the whole season but they're still ahead of Liverpool. Compare Liverpool to Spurs and the difference is night and day.
When he took over eight games has been played so everyone was still fairly close together. They were 3 points off 4th but only 4 points ahead of 17th... now they're 17 points ahead of 17th. At the end of the day they're higher up the table than when he took over and will probably finish even higher. It's silly to pretend that constitutes them being worse off.
They are worse off because they are further away from the top 4. The closest team to them when Klopp took over was Spurs.
Doesn't matter how far away from the relegation zone they are, that's not where they are challenging. Rodgers would have finished comfortably ahead of the relegation zone. The only real difference is that they've done well in Europe but they just beat a team by the slimmest of margins. In the league they've been average as evident by the same win percentage as Stoke.
There's a far better marker than the excruciatingly poor and painful examples you are giving .... your own eyes. If you don't believe Liverpool are a far improved team from when BR departed then there's really no hope for you. Of course results will be patchy, there's a transformation going on and they are not going to get it right every game. But even there they haven't been 'average', they've veered from sublime performances to the ridiculous, pretty much what should be expected.
And if you think that Dortmund are just 'a team' and that the performance itself, regardless of whether we scored that 91st minute goal or went out on away goals, wasn't a demonstration of the progress having been made ... then words fail me and I'll leave you to your biased view.
But they're closer to the top 4, not further away. 8th is closer to 4th than 10th is to 4th.
Ignoring league position to focus on points is disingenuous because of how early in the season Rodgers was sacked. The table hadn't spread out, hence my point about the gaps between them and 4th and them and 17th being almost the same.
Or even better, wait until the end of the season and see where everyone ends up. One of or both clubs could end up with a trophy and a Champions League place.
It doesn't seem like a fair comparison to make with Liverpool and either of Spurs and United though. Pochettino and Van Gaal are both in their second seasons having had two summers to buy/sell and work with their players. Klopp's had one January window so I suppose the real question is, where do you think this Liverpool squad should be? If you think we should be closer to the top four (within 1-8 points better off than we are now) then he has been below par.
His start wasn't amazing. it's been said on here before that his results were fairly mixed up until February, at which point we did improve in terms of performance and for the most part results. There's still a lot of work to be done though and he has to get his transfers right if we're going to continue to improve next season. The transfer windows are where Liverpool managers normally fall short.
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I haven't checked Liverpool's points per game, but as a general example:
If you're behind 3 points after 10 match days then you lost 0.3 points per game.
If you're then 6 points behind after 30 match days you lost 3 further points over (the next) 20 games which means 0.15 points per game, which means you performed better than before while still widening the gap.
Your ability to be impressed was not the debate. It's whether Liverpool have improved under Klopp. You appear to be using a selective set of criteria to prove a point that most disagree with you about.
As for saying Liverpool were two minutes from going out...hmmm, interesting that you wish to focus more on a scenario that didn't happen rather than what actually did happen.
Must try harder.