9
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- 8
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 3
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It can be argued he used him in the wrong way but obviously he is a defensive manager that is always gonna prefer the safer options at the back. All of our leftbacks are limited in some way, so it's more difficult to make things work down that side no matter who plays.
I really shouldn't have even commented on him in this game since I only have seen limited footage. But it's apparent that his movement and decision making at least in Mourinho's system is not up to par. And like I said before, we aren't in the same position to judge as Mourinho, since we don't see him in training.
Mourinho has actually spoken about the need to balance having an attacking outlet on the right (Valencia) with a more defensive option on the left (Darmian)
I personally never thought the same about Mkhi as it was very similar to his treatment of Willian. However he's called out both Martial and Shaw in a kinda personal way (asking Martial to shut up through his agent, and mentioning Shaw and Smalling as being a bit wimpy when it comes to playing with injury) in a manner he's not done with Mkhi.
I agree but probably not for the same reasons. At that point Herrera was out of sorts and struggling a bit; sort of like Martial now. I reckon the outcry and hullabaloo is way OTT, as it was then.
I think this will be the first big C-section on the club and a massive mistake to let him go. Obviously I am a huge fan but if we sell him it would be up there with Chelsea selling Mata, except Martial fits our system, hes clearly a huge huge talent and we would be down right crazy to sell him, and who would we be selling to?! I could definitely see him playing at any of the prem big boys after a period in another club.
And when Martial played last season he did fine. Heck, in two of his last three starts he was one of our best players and got benched at a minimum after each.
People were saying he needed to do better in games. His attitude in at least the last three starts has been great and he was one of the best players against Middlesbrough and Reading. His performance wasn't as good against Liverpool but he was nowhere near the worst. After his great performance against Middlesbrough he was left on the bench against West Ham (a team he has scored five goals against in less than two full seasons) and after similar against Reading he was a sub against Hull. Being saved for the Liverpool game maybe, but after that game he was left out of the squad entirely with Schweinsteiger - a player who has played 16 minutes all season - being preferred.
Here are the performances from two of his last three starts. Looks to me like someone eager to get back into the team.
He's come into form lately and still been dropped after each game.
I don't know if it's just me but it just seems like Martial's sulking a bit too much during his game. If this is due to Mourinho not giving a lot of trust in him or his own lack of self confidence I'm not certain. But there seems to be a heavy burden on him - maybe there is a lot of pressure on him to succeed - he maybe feels that a bad game or two might be an indication that the club will go for a new player (Griezmann) and therefore his play becomes more forced and therefore "fruitless".
On thing is at least clear and that is his amount of talent. Has so much to give this team and if he can only find the right solution then he will make a massive impact and create chances both for him and his teammates. I still have a lot of hopes for him.
On thing is at least clear and that is his amount of talent. Has so much to give this team and if he can only find the right solution then he will make a massive impact and create chances both for him and his teammates. I still have a lot of hopes for him.
Oh well…opinions.
It'll be fascinating to see how this one pans out.
A club that cherishes youth and creativity rubs up against a manager who, let's just say, has a patchy record on that score.
There may be no story at all but Jose's defensive ideals are non-negotiable and Martial - with his laid-back, uber-calm, personality - may be easy meat for him.
A club that cherishes youth and creativity rubs up against a manager who, let's just say, has a patchy record on that score.
There may be no story at all but Jose's defensive ideals are non-negotiable and Martial - with his laid-back, uber-calm, personality - may be easy meat for him.
I think the sensitivity is heightened because of Mourinho's track record. He doesn't trust young players and has let a number go that have gone on to become top players. There is precedent.
I think people "exaggerate" a bit when it comes to Mourinho not using young players. Martial is born 95 and Pogba 93. But Pogba is a player who has his trust. Should be pretty easy really - if a player is good then they'll get a chance. Mkhitaryan had experience but lacked a few things according to Mourinho - Mkhi has taken care of those bits and is now a regular. It's probably the same with other young ones who are close to the starting 11 - fix a few things then you'll get a chance. But maybe I'm a bit naive...
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And as I said before a 20 y/o Robben was a key part of his all conquering first Chelsea side.
That right there is a Slam Dunc!
Ik it's a long shot but I'd really like seeing him as our number 9 vs. Hull this midweek, tho ik that's wishful thinking.
More likely Rashford is to start there, which I'm completely OK with, but just saying would like seeing Martial in that spot for a game or 2.
Tho in the light of recent developments wouldn't surprise me at all if Martial isn't included in 18 men squad.
More likely Rashford is to start there, which I'm completely OK with, but just saying would like seeing Martial in that spot for a game or 2.
Tho in the light of recent developments wouldn't surprise me at all if Martial isn't included in 18 men squad.
I would like to see a front 3 of Martial/Rashford/Mikhi with hopefully some interchanging and free flowing football against Hull.
Also for all them posters that are praising Mourinho's handling of Mikhi should go back and rethink that.
Mikhi played in pre-season and played well at that, after which he got only minute and a half vs Leicester in super cup. Than he was inexplicably left out from the team and also the bench in next 3 games, finally getting some 15 minutes vs. Hull in which he helped turn things around.
After that he sustained an injury on his international duty after which he was thrown into fire of City derby whilst still a bit injured according to the reports.
I'm expecting some people to come and say "but Mikhi alone came out and said it, that it was him and Mourinho did all well". Well duh, you certainly won't expect him to come out and say "Mourinho's a cnut" and say farewell to his UTD career even before it begun.
Mikhi played in pre-season and played well at that, after which he got only minute and a half vs Leicester in super cup. Than he was inexplicably left out from the team and also the bench in next 3 games, finally getting some 15 minutes vs. Hull in which he helped turn things around.
After that he sustained an injury on his international duty after which he was thrown into fire of City derby whilst still a bit injured according to the reports.
I'm expecting some people to come and say "but Mikhi alone came out and said it, that it was him and Mourinho did all well". Well duh, you certainly won't expect him to come out and say "Mourinho's a cnut" and say farewell to his UTD career even before it begun.
Ahh my friend i had the same dream in the beginning until the cold, harsh reality bitch-slapped me - Zlatan's rarely droppable and absolutely unsubbale. (pretty sure i just made up some new words there)
Relative form for him this season, yes, but if it is true that Jose questioned his intensity and work rate, then that might not only explain why he keeps subbing him but also why he might not play him the next game: perhaps Jose thinks he needs a rest between games.
Out of curiosity, why do you think Jose rested him?
Very interesting choice of words there.
You can replace it with 'dropped' if you like. Why do you think Jose dropped Martial at Stoke?
You'd have to ask Jose that (why he dropped him, not 'rested' him), but he managed to start more than a couple of consecutive games plenty of times last season and the season before so doubt it is to do with fitness when Rooney (a player many have complained about being overweight/not fit) has started consecutive matches on five separate occasions this season compared to three for Martial.
Because he's in a perpetual state of fighting - with himself.
But that's just my opinion.
Interestingly enough in Middlesbrough game he covered crazy ground and played for the entire game, yet he looked as if he could go for another half an hour, easily.
Mourinho signed Pogba for a world-record fee. He can't afford not to trust him, at the risk of looking like a complete idiot.
Players like Shaw, Martial and Rashford were all established players at senior level and all of them have had their wings clipped by Mourinho in some way. That's without mentioning someone like Fosu-Mensah whose development has no doubt been stunted by Mourinho's refusal to give chances to young players. I can understand Mourinho's reluctance to promote from within to some extent but there shouldn't be any excuses for the lack of progress from those 4 given the amount of talent they possess.
Well, Martial of last season isn't really the same Martial we are seeing this season; also different manager, different demands.
And, I bet Jose would rather have not started Rooney that much... That was a political hot potato.
Amen. Big Dunc has spoken. That puts my mind at ease somewhat.
Well can you really blame Mourinho for playing Ibra instead of Rashford when he is adamant on playing with one striker. Wouldn't be fair on Marcus to have all that pressure on him at that young age. This way Rashford can slowly develop and learn until he is ready to lead the team. He gets a couple of matches from start in the "lesser" games and a not so little time as a "winger" - as long as he can play he won't "drop in quality". You'll probably mention his debut season but players sometimes (usually) are really good when the opponents don't really know the player - besides he basically scored everytime he had a chance to score - how often does that happen to a player?
Martial's situation is a bit difficult to answer. But it's most likely that he at this moment can't follow Mourinho's difficult tactics - he probably wants his wingers to work hard even in the defence and this is something he's doesn't do well now. And the same thing I said about Rashford applies for Martial as well - he had a really good first season in a new league where he wasn't well known and had the element of surprise. As I said before - Martial "declined" in the Euro's before Mourinho even had a "chance" to "ruin" him. Sometimes players just don't develop as fast as fans want. The second season is also often the most difficult one.
Shaw has been injured so it would be wrong to even talk about his situation.
So as I said Before - if a player is good enough (better than the others) then they'll get a chance. With good enough I don't just mean that for instance if Martial is good a creating chances but "cheating" when it comes to helping his teammates in the defence then it's clear that he isn't good enough.
And Mourinho doesn't have time to take chances with players with potential. He just can't gamble at this moment when he's trying to build something new so he choosed the ones that he can trust even if this can be seen as a "boring" choice. It's not like everything is perfect at the moment and he can try different things. Just my opinion but as I said, I may be a little naive for thinking like this.
@RedMaestro I don't expect Rashford to be the first choice striker at the club but he should've been given more opportunities to play in his preferred position. You mention the lesser games but in many of the League Cup and Europa League games this season, Mourinho has either benched him or continued to play him out of position. How is he supposed to develop into a striker capable of leading the team when he never plays there?
Martial's performance against Arsenal proves he is capable of adapting to Mourinho's way of playing when he did a great job of covering and protecting the left-back but I don't understand why that should even be expected of him if he is to be a success at this club. He has already proven his quality for us last season; he excels when he has the ball at his feet and is allowed to run at the opposition, why do we want to change that? He's a winger not a wing-back.
Important players are given some degree of freedom and Martial needs to be treated as such instead of the constant flip-flopping between him, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard and whoever else. Our chance conversion rate shows that the team isn't quite clicking in attack and that isn't likely to change until we get some consistency. I don't think it's a coincedence that the only games he wasn't subbed in this season (Middlesbrough and Reading) are the ones where he has made some of his most meaningful contributions. If Mourinho stops inexplicably dropping him, we might actually get to see some of what he has to offer.
Martial's performance against Arsenal proves he is capable of adapting to Mourinho's way of playing when he did a great job of covering and protecting the left-back but I don't understand why that should even be expected of him if he is to be a success at this club. He has already proven his quality for us last season; he excels when he has the ball at his feet and is allowed to run at the opposition, why do we want to change that? He's a winger not a wing-back.
Important players are given some degree of freedom and Martial needs to be treated as such instead of the constant flip-flopping between him, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard and whoever else. Our chance conversion rate shows that the team isn't quite clicking in attack and that isn't likely to change until we get some consistency. I don't think it's a coincedence that the only games he wasn't subbed in this season (Middlesbrough and Reading) are the ones where he has made some of his most meaningful contributions. If Mourinho stops inexplicably dropping him, we might actually get to see some of what he has to offer.
@CM10 Even Mourinho has admitted that he's used Ibra to much but he had to do this because the team were in a difficult spot (i.e. Europa League) with "must win games" and he felt that he couldn't take a chance with Rashford. Think this way - had he chosen Rashford instead of Ibra in the needed games and they lost - wouldn't most people blame Mourinho for not using his best player (in this case Ibra) for his striker position?
I'm almost certain that Marcus would have had a few more games from start as a striker but unfortunately the team were in a tight spot. Because we've seen that Mourinho has given Rashford the chance to gain experience when feeling it's a "lesser" game - the game against Reading where he scored. I'm almost sure that he'll get a lot more chances during the spring with a whole lot of games with both League and Cup. Ibra can't play all of the games til the end of the season.
The only thing I can say about why Martial would be expected to help his teammates is that in today's football there is no room for mistakes and when a player doesn't take the much needed defence duties then the team would most likely have a goal scored against them. Mourinho is a bit more strict in this area despite allowing his "front four" to move freely in the offence. But I'm no expert so I'm not going to act like I know a lot, just my opinion.
I agree with that players need to feel that the coach believes in them and need to start frequently and not every other game. But I still think this has something to do like the situation of Mkhitaryan. I honestly can't believe that there's anything other than this. Because why would any coach not use one of his best tools? It's that or lack of form, not performing during training (Ibra for instance is always a winner even when it's a training session according to former teammates), an "off season" due to this being his second season (as I said, normal to have a more difficult second season when opponents know your "trademark" moves) or a bad mindset (which I hope it's not). But like I said - hope everything goes well because he has great potential to be a world class player.
I'm almost certain that Marcus would have had a few more games from start as a striker but unfortunately the team were in a tight spot. Because we've seen that Mourinho has given Rashford the chance to gain experience when feeling it's a "lesser" game - the game against Reading where he scored. I'm almost sure that he'll get a lot more chances during the spring with a whole lot of games with both League and Cup. Ibra can't play all of the games til the end of the season.
The only thing I can say about why Martial would be expected to help his teammates is that in today's football there is no room for mistakes and when a player doesn't take the much needed defence duties then the team would most likely have a goal scored against them. Mourinho is a bit more strict in this area despite allowing his "front four" to move freely in the offence. But I'm no expert so I'm not going to act like I know a lot, just my opinion.
I agree with that players need to feel that the coach believes in them and need to start frequently and not every other game. But I still think this has something to do like the situation of Mkhitaryan. I honestly can't believe that there's anything other than this. Because why would any coach not use one of his best tools? It's that or lack of form, not performing during training (Ibra for instance is always a winner even when it's a training session according to former teammates), an "off season" due to this being his second season (as I said, normal to have a more difficult second season when opponents know your "trademark" moves) or a bad mindset (which I hope it's not). But like I said - hope everything goes well because he has great potential to be a world class player.
Am I right in saying there's absolutely nothing concrete that suggests Martial is unhappy at United and/or Mourinho is thinking of letting him go? And these 10 pages over the last two days are much ado about absolutely feck all besides him not being selected on Saturday?
I am a big fan of Jose and obviously I don't see the players training etc but I do see some favouritism from Jose for certain players. It's clear things are not 100% between Jose and Martial. Yes, Jose may expect more from Martial and maybe Martial is not so keen on tracking back, but neither is Pogba. Some of Pogba's performances have been poor as bad as anything Martial has produced. Martial was covered by 3 Liverpool players every time he touched the ball. So other players should have took advantage but they didn't. Pogba's performance against Liverpool was terrible yet he was not dropped. Zlatan again has had poor games yet never substituted. Again I have to question this. Rashford and Martial were a revelation last year yet have never had a consistent run in the team.
Like I stated at the beginning I have no real idea of everything that has gone on. Jose should be given more time regardless of how we do for the rest of the year, yet I think a mark against him so far is his faith in youngsters at United.
He is a manager and that involves different approached to dealing with people, not everyone responds the same way. Maybe Martial and his agent are exacerbating the problem but I don't like managers having favourites, and at the moment despite all Jose's strengths this is a weakness he is demonstrating.
Like I stated at the beginning I have no real idea of everything that has gone on. Jose should be given more time regardless of how we do for the rest of the year, yet I think a mark against him so far is his faith in youngsters at United.
He is a manager and that involves different approached to dealing with people, not everyone responds the same way. Maybe Martial and his agent are exacerbating the problem but I don't like managers having favourites, and at the moment despite all Jose's strengths this is a weakness he is demonstrating.
Anthony Martial is 21 years old. We signed him when no one had a clue who he was. His progression has therefore been beyond expectations as far as I'm concerned. He has played well this season and his waxing and waning performance trajectory is reflective of his stage development.
I wouldn't call him a phenomenon ala Ronaldo but he has all the attributes to be a world class player if he works at his game. In my opinion, I think it's absolutely fine for him to realise that he isn't necessarily 1st option on that left flank. If he has the mental fortitude to deal with that kind of pressure and come out on top then he'll be better for it and United will reap the rewards.
I also hope that he's not stupid. At 21 you can easily be influenced by the people around you and when large sums of money are involved it is inevitable that nefarious individuals will try to profit off you with the promise of greener pastures. I hope he keeps his head down and keeps going because if he does he'll cement his starting spot.
I wouldn't call him a phenomenon ala Ronaldo but he has all the attributes to be a world class player if he works at his game. In my opinion, I think it's absolutely fine for him to realise that he isn't necessarily 1st option on that left flank. If he has the mental fortitude to deal with that kind of pressure and come out on top then he'll be better for it and United will reap the rewards.
I also hope that he's not stupid. At 21 you can easily be influenced by the people around you and when large sums of money are involved it is inevitable that nefarious individuals will try to profit off you with the promise of greener pastures. I hope he keeps his head down and keeps going because if he does he'll cement his starting spot.
In a sense, all managers have favourites and there is nothing wrong with that when it is based on what they see the player do on the training pitch or on match day. For a time Ferguson preferred Jones over Rafael at right back, despite the caf preferring Rafael. Mourinho will presumably have good football reasons for not selecting Martial and Shaw.
Nice!
Martial hasn't been as good this season but results are better when he plays and he has been getting into form. He plays far away from goal with a lot of tracking back and has had to adapt to that.
Jose seems to have a problem with him but dropping him altogether caused a problem on Saturday. The manager went with the wrong team and got the wrong result, not for the first time. Stoke needed stretching out and Utd played in front of them.
If Martial goes then he will be banging on goals for the rest of his career elsewhere, he's too talented not to. Jose has sold badly for the last few years now and selling Martial would be a massive mistake.
Jose seems to have a problem with him but dropping him altogether caused a problem on Saturday. The manager went with the wrong team and got the wrong result, not for the first time. Stoke needed stretching out and Utd played in front of them.
If Martial goes then he will be banging on goals for the rest of his career elsewhere, he's too talented not to. Jose has sold badly for the last few years now and selling Martial would be a massive mistake.
This just isn't true. Martial was a well known huge prospect before we signed him... nobody becomes the most expensive teenager in football history with a background of anonymity. We knew when we signed him that we were getting one of the most promising forwards in football. I completely agree that his development in year 1 is beyond what anyone could have hoped for, but it's a surprise how quickly he hit those heights, not that he reached them at all
What is up with this lad, he needs to knuckle the feck down.
He was dropped from the squad, left for Paris, his agent mouthed off to French media again and now the red tops are reporting that Jose wasnt pleased with his Liverpool performance and that Martial was pissed off.
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