I haven't watched Spurs much this season but when I have seen him he seems to be invisible in games and manages to still score. Could be just the games I watched though.. How's his overall play? Passing, dribbling..etc
Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey
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His passing isn't something he's renowned for or stands out for. He's just a tidy passer really. Dribbling pretty much the same.
He's very much a second striker for me as he only gets involved in the final third. Thats why some games he won't have much involvement unless Spurs are in control.
He gets a decent amount of assists for a guy who isn't renowned for his passing.
So you think he's renowned for his passing?
According to the stats, Ibrahimovic has better assist stats and he's not renowned for his passing.
You don't need to be an excellent passer to get a lot of assists.
His passing is very good, he has great vision. He may not spray the ball around but he is precise and he is capable of picking out a chance creating pass.
Unless whoscored have their stats wrong, he only has 6 assists this season in a flying Spurs team. I wouldn't say that's anything to write home about. I can't say i ever really notice his passing, i dont doubt he couldn't play a nice through ball now and then if there was a great opening to do so, but he's not a "pass master" that will dictate play in the final third and pull an assist out of nowhere. Hence why I said he's a tidy passer.
Fwiw, whoscored have his passing down as a weakness and through balls as a strength. Probably just see it the same way I do.
I think when talking about passing, it can be categorized into different kind of types. Alli definitely very good for the passes in final third, but for a maestro role, he can only be seen as tidy. You can compare to your own Eriksen to get the idea. Then a Modric who controls midfield even from deep position.
Yeah that's a fair thing to say.
Only if you support United it is.
It's the old saying of he is mostly on the right place at the right time, a bit Lampardesque. It's an attribute that makes up for his lack of outright pace.
I don't think it's to make up for any thing. It's just instinct. Some players with ridiculous pace, even with no marker without the instinct can't position themselves to take chances. We used to have this Anderson dude who play in the furthest area of the midfield.
So Poch spots his talent and gives him a correct role while England NT utilized him wrongly by asking doing more in build up and restrict his freedom, space.
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He has 16 assists for Spurs this season so far and last. Plus 27 goals of course.
Chances created/key passes stat for creativity not "assists". Those are wholly dependent on your teammates actually scoring the chances you create and to a lesser extent, the style of play of your team.
I'd be happy to see us break the bank for him. He's immense. Can't see it happening though.
Tbh I dont care for the stats, somebody else mentioned assists and I looked it up. Whoscored had it at 6 this season, so how they are 10 out I don't know.
I prefer to judge on what I see with my own eyes and with Alli I don't see somebody that is a top level passer or particularly creative. Like I said, whoscored seem fairly trusted on here and they have his passing as a weakness. Not that their opinion is the be all and end all, but it shows that I'm not the only one that thinks this.
He's been good for a while now and getting better. It's great to see for England, but he's still got a bit further to go. Hopefully he can cut out the brashness as he matures.
Far too early to be thinking about a move though, especially as Spurs are going well atm.
Far too early to be thinking about a move though, especially as Spurs are going well atm.
Easy statement to write.
How about you back that up with some evidence or commentary as I'd like to understand what you can see that I can't.
I that's the case, it's a real indictment of Mourinho's ability to get the best out of his players.
Alli is currently playing several levels above Pogba. He's carrying spurs to victories away and at home. Pogba's done nothing of the sort.
Is he on 50k? If so I think Levy needs to further improve his contract this summer, and throw in an extra year of course.
He's certainly been much better than Pogba this season. Whether that continues to be the case...... *shrugs*
Comparisons of Alli to Pogba don't hold much ground as one is a second striker/ wide forward and one is a special cm. One is supposed to create and finish in the final third finish and the other has to operate in all thirds of the pitch. Using stats as a comparison is kind of moot in my opinion. Nevertheless, Dele Alli is one hell of a talent.
You're simply focus on what is currently visible which is Ali in a better team in a country he's been playing in for years vs Pogba is a much worse team having to adapt to a new league. Why disregard that Pogba has been an important part of a league dominating and CL finalist team and has achieved miles more than Ali in his career.
Any particular reason why Pogba is being compared with Alli?
It's been a trend since last 6 months to compare Pogba with any midfielder who does well, especially Alli and Kante.
Exactly. Alli plays as second striker while Pogba plays as CM. It's like saying Lukaku is the best player in they league.
Pogba should be compared with Dembele and Wanyama who plays in same position.
Pogba reminds me so much of Gerrard. Trying to make him into a "box-to-box" midfielder just because he's big and strong is a waste of his attacking ability and ignores the fact that he's not tactically intelligent enough for the role.
Pochettino started of playing Alli as a central midfielder before quickly realising he would be far more destructive playing 15 metres closer to the goal and he's been ridiculously productive.
Perhaps next season you will see Mourinho push Pogba forward a bit more. Lampard started out as the box-to-box player at Mou's Chelsea before Essien was signed before his second season and Lampard was pushed up to replace Guthjohnsen.
Pochettino started of playing Alli as a central midfielder before quickly realising he would be far more destructive playing 15 metres closer to the goal and he's been ridiculously productive.
Perhaps next season you will see Mourinho push Pogba forward a bit more. Lampard started out as the box-to-box player at Mou's Chelsea before Essien was signed before his second season and Lampard was pushed up to replace Guthjohnsen.
Pogba is much better than Alli ffs. It seems like the number of Spurs fans on here has addled the brains of a few United supporters to go with them.
Not sure why Alli's being compared to Pogba. People should realise something's off with the comparison when Pogba is compared with both Alli and Kante in different threads when no one in their right mind would compare Kante and Alli.
Tottenham got him for 5 m and our scouting network dint have a clue , or ignored him.
Agree with you @Varun Alli is playing as a second striker (pushed right up) hence his goal record so futile to draw comparisons. Don't get me wrong I would love to have him here at OT but given the choice of him or Pogba and its Pogba all day long for me. Both in the side along with Griezmann is fantasy land but it would be fun.
I think people take "Pogba is all rounded & can do everything as midfielder" too literally; then doesn't try understand Alli's role which is of the second forward. Pogba may not meet expectatiton and be a bit unfortunately for not getting better numbers in goal scoring and assists department, but he's pretty good with offensive phase as a midfielder. If we're to judge Pogba with second forward benchmark then he's guaranteed as a failure.
Exactly. He is playing as a CM but for some weird reason he is compared with SS or a player who plays very closely behind striker.
Pogba should be compared with CMs like Dembele and Wanyama as they play in same position (Wanyama plays different role though).
He creates more chances than Dembele and Wanyama combined (52 vs 48),
scored more goals than Dembele and Wanyama combined (4 vs 2),
assists more than Dembele and Wanyama combined (3 vs 1)
wins more aerial duels than Dembele and Wanyama combined (2.71 per 90mins vs 2.6 per game)
Wins as many duels per 90 mins as Wanyama (1.45 tackles and 1.57 Interceptions vs 1.96+1.14)
I don't disagree, I wasn't originally making the comparison, just responding to a post about Pogba being the better player.
I think the main point is that Alli's contribution this year and last has been fantastic and is a real driving force in a very good Spurs side. Pogba on the other hand has performed below expectations in a very ordinary Man Utd side.
Alli would walk into our team and add a completely different dynamic with an added level of aggression and will to win, for me he is the best CM in the league and if there's half a chance of signing him we should move heaven and earth to do so. Whether he's deemed a SS or AM is semantics, he's a midfielder who Poch plays further forward and the tactic has been extremely effective.
I would add that Tottenham team is more balanced between everyone putting in a shift than us: Zlatan, Rooney, Martial, Carrick as dpl, Darmian to play as false CB... leading to Tottenham midfielders need not to overwork. Which I again suspect people mistake it for Pogba needs to be played in Lampard role, no 10, Alli's role... Just need a better balance of workload between our players then Pogba would not need to improve his defensive workload, lesser stats, but his offensive ability would improve even playing in midfield 2. By that I also meant if Wanyama & Dembele needed to up their defensive side in other set up, they can do so, and Pogba wouldn't just win by stats in that case.
Would mention Rooney as second forward who again caught into the mistaken "can do anything" and people are too eager to let him play as midfielder with this misleading notion.
I think alli is a good player who is being helped by the system poch has found for the team. This has elevated his game to another level. I feel the most important thing for spurs will be keeping Poch and not kane or Alli. Poch is getting much more out of the team than anyone else. He has improved the full backs, identified the strengths of his midfield and given them roles accordingly.
Alli is like gerrard/Pogba in that he is not a cm and not exactly a second striker. His position seems to be found well enough by Poch. With pogba we have a problem as we do not have other midfielders capable of doing the number 6 job unlike spurs. Herrera is ok at it but that takes away a number 8. Pogba for us should compete with mata/mkhi for that ss role but plays too deep. even as an 8 he has those defensive shackles as hererra/ carrick arent that great as 6.
I feel once we sign a midfielder capable of playing as a 6 to a great level only then can we release pogba.
As for spurs, they really need to increase the salaries of their players or they will have vultures soon circling around them. I know its horrendous experience taking a player from tottenham but if they start competing like they are this season, i dont think the players will want to leave.
Alli is like gerrard/Pogba in that he is not a cm and not exactly a second striker. His position seems to be found well enough by Poch. With pogba we have a problem as we do not have other midfielders capable of doing the number 6 job unlike spurs. Herrera is ok at it but that takes away a number 8. Pogba for us should compete with mata/mkhi for that ss role but plays too deep. even as an 8 he has those defensive shackles as hererra/ carrick arent that great as 6.
I feel once we sign a midfielder capable of playing as a 6 to a great level only then can we release pogba.
As for spurs, they really need to increase the salaries of their players or they will have vultures soon circling around them. I know its horrendous experience taking a player from tottenham but if they start competing like they are this season, i dont think the players will want to leave.
Yeah the balance in the team is very much non existent. Hopefully next season will be completely different.
Fair points here.
Just say that the expectation on Pogba is OTT with wrong notion that "Pogba can do everything" = matching Alli, Dembele, as well as Eriksen contribution all by himself; while failing to regard that Pogba is asked to be less a specialist than all those and more often being deployed in midfield 2. Pogba discussion about his contribution for us should be in his own thread as I think we have discussed Pogba enough in this thread to distinguish his & Alli's role
Alli would definitely be a excellent addition to our squad if he is transferable (unlikely) as we're chasing a no 10 or second forward. He would fit our current need perfectly. Even young Rooney has greater potential as all rounded SS, I think that Alli would become more efficient in similar role, and if being utilized correctly he can be special for England NT. Alli seems like have better tactical discipline & understanding while Rooney always deemed as indiscipline and over stepping other players' area. Since his explosiveness when he was younger was great, he would get away with it. Ever since his physical decline kicked in, he failed to adapt as he didn't learn to improve his understanding of the game that well tactic wise. The robotic spraying the ball to right wing while more often than not regardless option on the left side is testament.
Disagree that that Alli's a midfielder. He's second forward. Poch took huge credit to see his worth and utilize him correctly.
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He is NOT the best CM in the league, simply because he is not a CM. Semantics?
