MyOnlySolskjaer
Creator of Player Performance threads
Jesse Ellis Lingard
Dec 15, 1992 (24)
England
1,74 m
His movement is definitely the best part of this game.I think he's at his best in a central attacking midfield role. His movement and workrate are excellent. I'd be happy for him to be a replacement for Pogba off the bench. If he can develop a bit more bite, possibly even an option to compete with Herrera.
Also 1 cross per game for a guy playing out wide.42 appearances...5 goals.
Provides 1 goal or assist every 3.1 matches worth of football.
Movement is great, but we're not going to do much if one of our 3/4 attackers is delivering so little.
At the risk of starting a thread-derailing debate, no they are not. Good movement is one of the most important abilities in football; it creates space for yourself and other players, which is as valuable as any skill on the ball. And while work rate may not be as valuable in an attacking player as outright skill, it can be extremely valuable in specific games (eg when your opponent has a dangerous fullback that is key to their attacking system). You may be sick of people bringing up movement and work rate as attributes, I'm sick of people dismissing them. Not every player can be a star.I'm just hoping people(well some anyways) will dial down on the movement talks and start judging him solely on his footballing abilities.
If he still has a poor return(his numbers would be abysmal for an attacking player at decent side, let alone a huge club , it's downright ridiculous) then he'll rightly get criticised over them and people shouldn't be calling other haters over legit and founded criticisms.
"Movements", "work hard" have become such convenient excuses thrown around. Because of last season excessive use of those excuses those words are starting to make me roll my eyes everytime they're brought up.
With that said good luck to Lingard and hope he shows more this season otherwise this thread won't take long before spiralling out of control again.
Yes. Don't rate him at all. Not even as a squad player.The epitome of our past few seasons, get rid. His movement is actually average (just moving isn't good movement, mata has good movement as he occupies and exploits pockets of space, lingard just runs around aimlessly) it's just isn't as bad as everything else so is exaggerated in his defence.
To an extent, absolutely. However, Mourinho seemed much harsher on the likes of Martial and Mkhitaryan; as in, if either of them had one bad game, they could find themselves dropped for multiple games whereas, Lingard could have multiple bad games and still get picked.Him playing so much says much more about his teammates than himself.
Yes you're right and in a way it highlights even more what I said. Him playing so much means that other players aren't necessarily giving Mourinho satisfaction in terms of delivering what he expects from them. Mourinho is harsher on Martial because he knows he is much much better than Lingard but for whatever reasons, he doesn't show it. Same with Mkhitaryan. It's one way of coaching that has worked out for him, pushing and teasing the better players into reacting positively.To an extent, absolutely. However, Mourinho seemed much harsher on the likes of Martial and Mkhitaryan; as in, if either of them had one bad game, they could find themselves dropped for multiple games whereas, Lingard could have multiple bad games and still get picked.
Oh yeah, I totally agree. It's been the modus operandi of Mourinho for as long as I can remember. He is clearly harsher on the more talented players as it seems to be a tool of his to get the best out of them - well attempt to, anyway - and get them playing to his methods.Yes you're right and in a way it highlights even more what I said. Him playing so much means that other players aren't necessarily giving Mourinho satisfaction in terms of delivering what he expects from them. Mourinho is harsher on Martial because he knows he is much much better than Lingard but for whatever reasons, he doesn't show it. Same with Mkhitaryan. It's one way of coaching that has worked out for him, pushing and teasing the better players into reacting positively.
I remember how he used to call Benzema lazy at Real Madrid and was publicly criticizing him, Karim quickly changed his game and he automatically gained Mourinho's trust.
I wonder if he can improve upon his impressive record of 1 league goal in a season.
Don't worry, he will have 1 good game and people start raving about him againVery limited player. If he wasn't a local lad, he would be out the door already.
They're not excuses. They are his qualities. Two sides to the debate, one side is a bunch of internet fans, the other side is a bunch of internet fans and Jose mourinho. Is it at least even possible that your side of the fence is missing somethingI'm just hoping people(well some anyways) will dial down on the movement talks and start judging him solely on his footballing abilities.
If he still has a poor return(his numbers would be abysmal for an attacking player at decent side, let alone a huge club , it's downright ridiculous) then he'll rightly get criticised over them and people shouldn't be calling other haters over legit and founded criticisms.
"Movements", "work hard" have become such convenient excuses thrown around. Because of last season excessive use of those excuses those words are starting to make me roll my eyes everytime they're brought up.
With that said good luck to Lingard and hope he shows more this season otherwise this thread won't take long before spiralling out of control again.
With Mata and Miki in the squad, and Pogba capable of playing the #10 role, I would have thought Lingard would be 4th choice to get anywhere near the central attacking role.I wonder if we aren't going to be seeing him more through the middle this season. I kind of like those slaloms of his, and he might combine well with Lukaku.
Ah yes, the Jose is playing him so he must be good defence.They're not excuses. They are his qualities. Two sides to the debate, one side is a bunch of internet fans, the other side is a bunch of internet fans and Jose mourinho. Is it at least even possible that your side of the fence is missing something
Have you forgotten what Mourinho did with De Bruyne and Lukaku at Chelsea? He is not infallible. If Lingard is a regular starter this season then we're not getting top four. He's barely mid table level no matter what people say about his 'movement'.They're not excuses. They are his qualities. Two sides to the debate, one side is a bunch of internet fans, the other side is a bunch of internet fans and Jose mourinho. Is it at least even possible that your side of the fence is missing something
I know it's opinions but I disagree with most of this, right up to the chess. You could literally get check mate in 1 move.In my opinion, modern football isn't as easy as having a team of 11 players putting the ball in the back of the net. Sometimes, we need players who can play defensively on the wing, players who can hug the touch line to make space for others, a player who is in the right space at the right time, a player able to provide a link between multiple areas in the pitch.
It's now been 2 world renowned managers that have used Lingard & I am more than happy for it to continue as long as he continues to do what the manager asks of him.
Football is a game of chess, and a team full of queen pieces will struggle to win against a team of a balanced knights and pawns.
I personally see him moving centrally to provide a pivot like he did for Rashford against Chelsea.
Hehe that's fair play and without turning this to a game of chess - going for a one move check mate every game isn't going to work & May do more harm than good.I know it's opinions but I disagree with most of this, right up to the chess. You could literally get check mate in 1 move.
The bits I agree with are needing a couple grafters, but not on the wing!
Two managers have had a go and both seriously struggled to make us an attacking.
Fergie played cleverly Gibson Richardson all players that are lingards level and he let them go because they weren't good enough