Not enough crow has been eaten by all the pundits who said this guff last season.
Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)
- Thread starter simonhch
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That’s a really good clip on how good movement and a good first touch make football look easy. Quite difficult to do it effectively, and consistently, but the top teams do that. Barcelona at their peak did that regularly every game and that’s what sets them apart.
One can't help but notice the impact Pep's first season and insistence of passing through the press (with sometimes disastrous results) has had on City's dominance in this aspect, this season.
because booting the ball up to Aguero makes no sense as it will just come back quicker to their defence. It doesn't make any sense from a statistical or logical point of view with the players he has. These pundits are so clueless it's painful to listen to sometimes.
A few months ago one of them suggested he get a big #9 to hoof the ball to. It was embarrassing to listen to tbh.
Pep is a fraud. Haha.
We've got high hopes that his return will allow us to use the Wing Backs formation that looked so good at the start of the season.
He then got a silly self-inflicted injury to keep him out for months so he is still a mystery to most City fans.
Their third goal was something else.
The very definition of chasing shadows.
The very definition of chasing shadows.
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It makes perfect sense if the thing you are offended by the most is the instant obvious in your face mistake. It's a society thing in general; if something is not working instantly and yielding immediate results, or worse, if it is causing some obvious problems, the reaction is that it's a total failure and there needs to be a change of direction. This, I feel is the general reaction of most pundits, English ones at least. A team tries for example to press, gets done on the break, verdict in; pressing is bad and a parked bus is the best solution. We saw that when Spurs tried it against City and lost earlier in the season for example. There is just a desperation to draw very quick conclusion based on very little data and in the context of football. The data tends to be one bad pass from the back that led to a goal or one bad game where a mistake was made making pundits judging the entire approach as problematic and cause for the defeat. You understand that from fans as naturally we are not qualified to thoroughly analyse the game and end up looking for any half baked clue to draw up conclusions. But when it comes to pundits who generally go into management or were in management, you begin to think they are either pandering to the public to make click bait headlines or just a bunch of idiots making a quick buck.
The style has worked as he has spent nearly half a Billion implementing it. He also had players costing several hundred million bought before his arrival. It was impossible to fail. Many people said Pep's style wouldn't work in the PL as they didn't know how much he was going to spend.
You may win a treble this season but it would still be inferior to our treble. All trophies have a different level of prestige. The FA Cup is vastly superior to the LC. It's also highly doubtful that the drama & romance of our treble will ever be repeated. Winning the PL on the final day. The penalty save & Gigg's goal Vs Arsenal. The 2 late goals to snatch the trophy from Bayern's grasp. This will be remembered forever.
After your last 2 title wins City fans were telling anyone who would listen how you were going to go on to dominate. We all know how this worked out. If anything you got worse. If history has taught us anything then rest assured you will feck everything up, you always do.
If players like Sane , Jesus, Silva, et al, reach their predicted levels it's highly unlikely the will stay at City for 10 years. They will have dreams of playing for bigger & more prestigious clubs. ATM Pep is flavour of the month so it's obvious he'll bring alot of exposure to City. When he's gone the bubble bursts & nobodies interested in City any more.
You can tell which team is drilled on how to do quick passing, and which team isn't.
It's a core principle of System Dynamics: initiatives being torpedo'ed by short term implementation mishaps. cf VAR at the moment. If the decision concerning implementation was left in the hands of the reactionary public it would have been binned by now.
They will not reach our status unless they dominate for about 10 years. It took us and Fergie about that long before we started properly assuming Liverpool's position in the country. The only way City can earn that status is through consistency so there is not much to talk about at the moment. Having said that, attributing their football this season to their spending just comes across as bitter. Their spending and squad quality might justify winning the league but the style of football they play is something only their manager can produce. It's like Barcelona, the quality of players is good enough to win but the football produced between 2009-2011 is something different. You can of course dismiss that as insignificant and that all wins are equal which is a different topic. But to argue that the way they are playing can be achieved simply by spending or having great players is just not true.
I think he deserves alot of credit. Yes he has spent huge money but he has stayed firm to his managerial beliefs and sadly he has moulded a team that play fantastic football.
Money doesnt guarantee success or great football. Jose has spent nearly 300 million with little sign of creating either.
Good points. You may be right about the 10 years but a couple more seasons watching City's style in sharp contrast to our own will seem like a lifetime .
The high hopes are justified. The kid loves to bomb forward and deliver dangerous crosses. Him and Sané on that left side will be difficult to contain
The fact that you put Milan in this group shows you have no idea what you are talking about
It's more that I hope I will be right
The way they play is something we have not seen in the PL. Even in Europe with the exception of Barcelona. I don't mean from an aesthetic point of view as that's subjective and to many, the directness of our 1999 team or even Klopp's teams are more exciting sides. What I mean is the uncompromising authority with which they play. The idea that everybody is resigned to being dominated by them wherever they play. Their approach seems to be "we will go to Stamford Bridge or Old Trafford, we will take the ball, force you back and play most of the game in your own half and you should hope you get a set piece or a lucky break". That's what Barcelona reduced Europe's elite to doing and that's where their aura came from. Many teams have won but none have treated fellow established elite with such authority. If City can do that in Europe as well and marry it with wins, the 10 years prediction won't be necessary.
yeah, nobody could expect that City were going to spend a lot of money, so unlike them right?
Maybe I'm the only one who read lots of people saying that the style couldn't work in the PL even if Pep had his Barça side at his disposal. Now the nitpicks are coming...
The funny thing is that the only additions to their first team this year have been Ederson and Walker. Did anyone honestly think that the difference between struggling to finish fourth and winning the league by Christmas is a goalkeeper and a full back who fell behind Trippier? They must be geniuses.
Wtf are you talking about? Yeah, AC Milan has dipped dramatically in recent years but that doesn't mean they won't be coming back, they're still successful. They belong to the same groups as Bayern, Ajax, United and Liverpool, etc which they had success without cheating their way to success through
financially backed by oil state like City and PSG who are a just fake club and seen as a toy for rich to play FIFA in real life.
You are mistaken my friend. LB positions have been well covered by Delph/Zinchenko/Danilo.
Undoubtedly the wingbacks coupled witha disastrous Bravo were the biggest issue last season.
We lost so many games because of Bravo last season. It was like every shot resulted in a goal.
On top of that Wingbacks age caught up with them, Zabaleta, Clichy were regularly exploited by the teams last season.
Walker/Ederson along with Delph/Zinchenko and Danilo have given us another dimension.
On top of that KDB's phenomenal form has definitely helped.
Every paragraph in this post is riddled with nonsense. If you were one of the better posters I’d give you more respect in reply, given it’s a United forum, but a nonsense post deserves it.
1st) By the same logic it was impossible for Mourinho to fail, unless money doesn’t actually garauntee success at all times. You should know that right now more than anyone. If you could spend another £200M and replicate Citys style of play this season you’d probably take that? If not then what would you expect from another £200M? Do tell. (I’m even being kind because the net spend difference isn’t even that big).
2) A treble is a treble, you cannot downplay any treble down because it’s near impossible to achieve when it includes a PL and CL. 1999 was an outstanding achievement and nothing will ever take that away, should it ever be replicated you can never take that away either. FACup Vs LC when PLs and CLs are involved? Go home. Any PL/CL double, nevermind treble, will ALWAYS be remembered.
3) Yeah, always. After this season we’ll be the most successful English club in the last 6 seasons, right since that initial PL title won in 11/12. 3/7 titles isn’t domination, granted, but 4/8 or 5/9 is getting there - don’t write it off just yet. It’s still in the conversation so to dismiss it entirely when the game is still in play is odd. Nothing has been “fecked up” just yet. Great facilities, great squad, great manager.
4) You’re right. Just like Kompany, Yaya, Silva and Aguero all left us in there prime years, and like De Bruyne, one of the best players on the planet, just refused to sign a 5 year deal in January because he can’t see past the rest of Peps 18 months remaining on his contract. There is ZERO evidence that City let top players go, it hasn’t happened once yet. You should be more worried about the top players who would want to come to City right now.
The League Cup is in no way comparable to the FA Cup. Going out to Wigan, for example, shows the beauty and complexity of the FA Cup
AC Milan never cheated? Hehe and they also had Berlusconi bankrolling them and aye he's whiter than white
Before Berlusconi brought A.C. Milan, they are already there in that group and they're still successful compared to City and PSG who haven't had much success before oil state-funded brought them and cheated their way to top club, you could argue that United would be still in that group even if Qatar brought them and bankrolling them.
When you put it in the context of a treble winning season alongside the PL and CL, you’re talking minor comparisons. Context is everything.
As of now Pep has spent £150 Mill more than Jose. The title race would be a lot closer if Jose had been able to match Pep's transfer budget. We would still be behind though as Pep inherited proven quality players like Aguero & KDB. The net spend argument has no bearing on anything. Many players Pep sold were bought before his tenure. Are we to believe that Pep told the previous City manager to buy these players. When he officially joined the club he could then sell these players to pad out his net spend figures. Jesus Wept.
I don't know why you would think a PL, CL, LC treble ranks the same as a PL, CL, FA Cup treble. The LC is the least prestigious trophy to win of the 4. Therefore by definition a treble which substitutes the FA Cup for the LC is inferior.
You are getting ahead of yourself predicting you will win the next 2 PL titles. History has told us you are incapable of defending the PL title even when everything is stacked in your favour. As a club you have always fecked everything up. You don't mean to, but you do.
The players you mention were not wanted by any of the top clubs. Real & Barca already had strong sides. Italian clubs were skint. Bayern were also very strong due to having no competition domestically. I don't need to remind you that player contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. KDB will have no problems signing a huge 5 year contract as it gives him financial security. When Pep leaves City & the ship starts going down KDB & the rest will be looking for an exit. We will see how you hold onto players when the big boys come calling.
Completely. It's completely unearned and immoral, that will never change.
Good post. Can't really disagree with anything here
This was said less tan a month ago when they were like 15 points ahead...
I could literally copy and paste my previous response and it would still make perfect sense against what you’ve just said. At least bring something new to the table if you’re going to respond in that kind of depth.As of now Pep has spent £150 Mill more than Jose. The title race would be a lot closer if Jose had been able to match Pep's transfer budget. We would still be behind though as Pep inherited proven quality players like Aguero & KDB. The net spend argument has no bearing on anything. Many players Pep sold were bought before his tenure. Are we to believe that Pep told the previous City manager to buy these players. When he officially joined the club he could then sell these players to pad out his net spend figures. Jesus Wept.
I don't know why you would think a PL, CL, LC treble ranks the same as a PL, CL, FA Cup treble. The LC is the least prestigious trophy to win of the 4. Therefore by definition a treble which substitutes the FA Cup for the LC is inferior.
You are getting ahead of yourself predicting you will win the next 2 PL titles. History has told us you are incapable of defending the PL title even when everything is stacked in your favour. As a club you have always fecked everything up. You don't mean to, but you do.
The players you mention were not wanted by any of the top clubs. Real & Barca already had strong sides. Italian clubs were skint. Bayern were also very strong due to having no competition domestically. I don't need to remind you that player contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. KDB will have no problems signing a huge 5 year contract as it gives him financial security. When Pep leaves City & the ship starts going down KDB & the rest will be looking for an exit. We will see how you hold onto players when the big boys come calling.
They were also relegated due to match fixing before Berlusconi
The old big 5 and their greed created the modern City, it's funny seeing united fans throwing around words like immoral and cheating when it's was these clubs owners back in the day and their greedy quest for more revenue or in Alan Sugars case to sell satellite boxes that ended up with the owners like the Glazers, Ashleys, Hicks, Mansours etc etc we have in football today
That is just beautiful. I would have loved City to be a neutral team so I could watch them play for entertainment.
Can City fans point me to some other goals of theirs like that?
They didn't create modern City or Chelsea, it had nothing to do with the "The old big 5", it had to do with the FA policy that is completely different from Germans, anyone can buy the club in the premier league and take full control of the club, but that is not case in Germany, they have a 50-1 rules, it won't allow billionaire to buy German club outright, it doesn't favor billionaire. United was never greedy at that time, if they were, what does it mean for rest of the EPL clubs? English club was lucky that United never pushed harder for individuals broadcasting rights in the 90s like Barcelona and Real Madrid did. If it went the opposite way, let's say, United succeeded in acquired individuals broadcasting rights, we would be earning a lot of money at least 2x time than what Sky/BT would pay for each club in the premier league or be allowing Sky to buy United outright would assure us get more powers than English clubs. Also, amount of money Chelsea and City wouldn't get much money in broadcasting revenue if the FA allowed individuals broadcasting rights. Premier league were created because of another league that had their own TV rights as a corporation, they get much money than English league. Alan Sugars is the reason which the Premier League has led to has helped the English league to compete with Bundelisga, La Liga and Serie A, especially Serie A.
I'm not disputing the prestige and historical significance of AC Milan, that much is well accepted. However, your initial point was about how the likes of United, Liverpool and Bayern have achieved the wealth and stature they have today through strictly "organic" means which in the case of Milan isn't true, at least relative to those other teams. AC Milan was bankrolled by the literal leader of the country for over 30 years. To be fair to AC, they had won two European cups prior to him buying the team but when he did buy them they were on the brink of bankruptcy until he pumped millions of dollars into the club. Had he not done that they could of easily gone the way of Nottingham Forrest or worse but having the financial backing of the Prime Minister allowed them to break the world transfer record for players such as Ruud Gullit and ensured they consistently competed for the most expensive players when necessary throughout the ensuing decades.
If you're lucky Moyesy might be available
Yet mods allow shit newbie wum posts like this on the forum.Redcafe turning into Bluemoon.
So. Much. Bitterness.
Relax everyone. City are great. It's okay. Shh. Everything's gonna be okay.
Blue moon indeed.
I can see your point but they still belong to the groups no matter how who bankrolled them because they already achieved success through "organic" means before they were brought by Berlusconi, even though as if Qatar or Sky owner brought United and bankrolled them but still belong to same groups where they could complete without needing owner to invest due to FFP, in case of United's revenue power they could spend much as they want if allowed. City and PSG didn't have much success, they were brought by the oil state-funded and bankrolled them but they will never belong to that group and that' it, A.C Milan is different from City and PSG.
Today AC Milan is most definitely not PSG or City, but what about in 30 years? It's not fair to say that it was ok when AC Milan got huge investment because that ignores the fact that they were literally on the brink of bankruptcy. All the talk of wealth and self sustainability doesn't hold much weight for them because they're supposed self sustainability put them in a position where they could have easily went into administration or had the club dissolved all together until they had someone pump millions to not only keep them afloat but make them financial juggernauts. In terms of strictly the financial position of both clubs prior to the takeover, one could make the argument that what AC did was worse. Once again, Milan even as mediocre as they have been recently is still a bigger football club but its easy to draw parallels between what happened to them and what happened to City, if it the situations are not quite the same.