He was putting in a shift, smiling, taking shots and making incredible passes. Looks like he had a good outing. Fellaini has really helped to relieve him of most of Defensive duties and enjoy himself. More of this please, Paul.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Unless he passes the ball into the net with the outside of his left bollock, he will be called shit. Accept it Paul, it was a mistake to have talent such as yours.
.....but he never uses his right bollock?
I think the bolded part sums up what many people have been saying about the next level for Pogba. He seems great when the team is collectively playing well like in the first half. He was absolutely brilliant for most parts of it. But when the team's standard drops, his own play also seems to drop like the second half of today's game. But that next level is when he is able to raise the quality of the team almost single handedly. The greats are those who drag the team to win.
My take is that much of the problem we have had since Pogba came are connected to the expectation the club has for Pogba. I don't see him as the type of player meant to pull a team up. I see him as a player whose star shines brightest when surrounded by leaders and also super stars like himself. He is not the type of player you should build a team around. His best doesn't come out when you build the team around him.
There’s always one...
....like against Man City you mean? The game if we lost, would never ever be forgotten?
he's a class player
Very good today with moments of class...unlucky not to score and he was in many positions around the pitch. Much more unpredictable. Carry on lad.
Well let’s just say that’s how it’s going to be for arguments sake. Many greats are infact like that. The best and more successful ones do have a collection of great/good players who work as a great team. The expectation that you talk about is a narrative that fans or the media has come up with to have an excuse to beat him up with. His strengths and weaknesses are not that hard to see.
If the guy has immaculate passing range, you need players with immaculate movement to slot those passes into goals. If the guy is a little shoddy in possession sometimes, you need someone else to support him so that it doesn’t bite the team, etc etc. His strengths are indeed world class but he like many others have weaknesses that by now should be clear to us. He will win you matches with his strengths more often than not with the right kind of support which everyone needs.
Thought he was sloppy and at times petulant today. Still a massive improvement on previous weeks when he just did not care, looked like he really wanted to get a goal towards the end but just looked isolated with martial not getting involved. Hopefully can build on this
Faded badly in the last 20 minutes or so but up until then he was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. My MOTM.
How many more can you mention?
Just to let you know, I didn't mean that post as a criticism of Paul. I just pointed out how I think the best can be gotten out of him.
I did not mean that post to 'beat him up'. He's a good lad and immensely talented. But like I said, I don't see him as the type of player you build a team around. That doesn't get the best out of him. You need to relieve him of 'leadership' pressure to get the best out of him. That's what I have observed about him and that's not a criticism.
That's definitely part of it, but I think there's a particularly British idea of what constitutes "hard work" in football which exacerbates that for Pogba. Running towards your own goal is lauded as a heroic effort, running forward towards the opposition goal is ignored entirely. That feeds into all sorts of assessments about the level of commitment, determination, selflessness, effort etc. that plays a huge role in shaping people's views on footballers over here. So even if he contributes a lot outside of that, the frustration that comes from Pogba's perceived laziness just make him a constant target. If only he put in more effort...
The very obvious reality is that Pogba runs more than most players, but he gets criticised for not running enough because of the kind of runs he makes and the ones he chooses not to. The fact he's the only player in the team consistently making lung-busting runs to support Lukaku right up until the 90th minute is simply overlooked. No-one ever criticises Matic for not running forward enough, despite the fact he opts to take a breather and hang back in almost exactly the same way with the same kind of frequency. He does it in a different part of the pitch and his body language is different, but that hardly matters. Running is running, a lot of the time it's selfless and it's always mentally and physically draining.
People associate it with a sense of ego and teamwork but that doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. Running up to support Lukaku in the 90th minute is every bit as important to holding onto the lead as sitting deep is. It is not an ego-driven surge but an essential team contribution. The fact he gives us that outlet to allow the team to re-group is incredibly valuable, and the fact he has the energy levels and sheer explosiveness to actually provide a threat on top of that is invaluable. It's something that Pellegrini touched on a while back:
Distance covered stats aren't really available in the public domain but FIFA and UEFA show some of them for their major events. If you look at the distance covered stats averaged over the course of the World Cup for the finalists' four main centre mids - Modric, Pogba, Rakitic and Kante - you can see they're in the same ballpark. Yet only one of them is frequently described as lazy, two of them are described as unusually hardworking playmakers, and one is described as almost superhuman.
Modric: 9.4km
Pogba: 9.7km
Rakitic: 10.2km
Kante: 10.4km
(distance covered per 90 mins)
The point is not that Pogba runs more than Modric. The fact Modric played another 150 minutes in a short space of time likely brought down that overall average, and on the whole he probably runs more. The point is they are not that far apart in the numbers, but they're worlds apart in the descriptions. Pogba runs less but makes longer, more explosive runs more frequently. The nature of that style of running and the role he occupies as a result of that makes it entirely expected that he takes breathers high up the pitch more often. It's not about laziness.
The fact that even Lukaku chased back a fullback towards the end of the game should not be in any way shocking. He doesn't have to make the draining runs minute by minute that Pogba does because he's saving his energy for the explosive runs, so he should be expected to do that every now and then. In the same way he shouldn't be expected to do it all the time, because that wouldn't be the most valuable use of the energy he has. His average was 7.8km in the World Cup, for what it's worth. That isn't something that is purely down to where he plays - e.g. Kane's was 9.9km, Giroud's was 9.3km - nor is it a measurement of effort. It's just a reflection of the kind of running they do. Explosive running like Lukaku's is far more draining than Kane's or Giroud's, and repeated long bursts at speed like Pogba (or Toure) is more draining than Matic or Fellaini's constant movement at a much steadier pace.
He did well today. He didnt have a pre-season and sucked it up to play for the team against Leicester. Im surprised if anything that the club couldnt manage to get him to stay back from the Internationals last week. It would have done him good. We need him fit for this season and he looks a ltb tired already. This needs to be adressed.
Did not really mean you. It’s a feeling I get reading some others or even the media. Maybe you are right about the pressure of leadership is not meant for him as he works better when left free to be expansive and letting others around him cover at times. But he is still relatively young and things can change. Or even it doesn’t, he can still be a highly functional match winner/highly important cog for us. One thing we both know is letting him go would be a fecking mistake even if it means sometimes putting up with his oddities.
Yes.
You can keep quoting me and trying to bait me but this is the last time I respond to you as I found out last time that the rules of the board don't apply to you, so I wont waste my time with your trolling.
Why?
France had a huge presentation at Stade De France for their world cup win. He was not going to miss that.
You said you were going to stop! Lukaku is 25 - he’s here for a long time.
Oh yeah. Spout continuous abuse about our players and manager and declare you're going to stop supporting the team because we sign a player you don't like, and I'm the troll. The difference is I can keep my displeasure to a reasonable level most of the time, you however, cannot.
I never realised they supposedly stopped being pals. When did that happen??
Maybe, I thought he was the wrong buy and was angry and still think he'll be replaced when we get a new manager, I'll see him out.
I have no idea - I remember hearing about it and i thought it was just a rumour. I think it was when Sanchez joined.
That's what I noticed at as well too. He's smiling! which is good.
Havent watched the full game yet but based on comments I guess it was due to lack of preseason. Great first half bad second can only mean lack of consistency at the moment or energy to maintain the level for full game.
Reminded me of Scholes in the first half... Brilliant
Good moments in the 2nd but, pretty average overall in the last 30 mins....
If ever a match summed up a player...
Good moments in the 2nd but, pretty average overall in the last 30 mins....
If ever a match summed up a player...
Very good post and very good analysis.
End of the day people will ignore everything and will be back to "lazy Pogba" posts.
Modric is 33 ( 7 years difference ), is intelligent and always does the right thing for the team.If I remember the WC final, I don't think he even gave away the ball once while creating a lot of attacking plays and chances.
The thing with Pogba is not laziness, his off the ball movement is pretty average. He makes a pass and then does not move enough to make his contribution on the attack. When you combine this with his hogging on the ball, it looks pretty bad.
Also if he plays in a 2 man midfield he will have to put effort when we loose the ball which has not been the case, its not what he wants but what the team needs.
I think for some reason he thinks of himself as a great player, but I honestly think he is at best a good player, nothing more.
Yea.. If ever a match summed up the team.
I agree. As much as I have had issues with his attitude recently, I would do everything to retain him at United and keep him happy. He's a special talent. I just think the best way to maximize him is by surrounding him with world class talents. If that is done, people will see the best of Pogba.
He is hell’a frustrating, first half some of thise passes off of his weak foot as well. Everyone can surely see he is something special he just isn’t special consistently enough, maybe not all his fault as Rio made a good point yesterday in that he wants runners and we don’t really play or haven’t played like that in seasons past.
You see him take the ball and the first thing he does is look up and often I think this problem of him holding the ball too often is because he doesn’t see anyone making those runs but he backs his ability and strength to hold the ball until someone makes the run. Maybe at times it would be better for him to just pop it off and move in to another position but then we’ve been looking for a guy who’ll take responsibility for making things happen in midfield for years now and here we have him and people think we should be selling him. Madness.
You see him take the ball and the first thing he does is look up and often I think this problem of him holding the ball too often is because he doesn’t see anyone making those runs but he backs his ability and strength to hold the ball until someone makes the run. Maybe at times it would be better for him to just pop it off and move in to another position but then we’ve been looking for a guy who’ll take responsibility for making things happen in midfield for years now and here we have him and people think we should be selling him. Madness.
I don't think anyone(sane) has ever denied that. It is also the crux of the criticism towards him, he has the talent to be among the very best in the world, a contender for the individual prizes in the post Messi/Ronaldo era. Fans and pundits for that matter are right to expect a lot from him and he should be called out when he goes through self indulgent phases, but also praised when he is excellent. His first 2 years at Utd were disappointing but the WC and a more attacking Utd could be the final step of him realizing that potential.
He had moments of sublime quality yesterday, that only a handful of players in the world could match, then switched off from the game for a spell and was in part culpable for Watford coming back strongly.
I thought he was brilliant yesterday, some of his passes were excellent. It's a shame out attackers can't make anything out of the passes.
Paul had a fantastic game yesterday
Played more like a 10 yesterday, with Matic and Fellaini sitting in front of the back four.
Thought he was fine. Some of the passing he displayed was fantastic, especially in the first half. Felt his decison making in the second half on the counter could have been a bit better, though.
I do think we need more width, though. We need one of our wingers to hug the touchline, then make darting runs from out to in. There were a few occasions Sanchez did it, but Pogba didn't spot the run.
I think if we're going to play with a double pivot, which is more or less what we did yesterday, with Fellaini and Matic, then maybe we should sacrifice one of those players and put Pogba further back, with a more traditional number 10 and a winger to keep the width.
As solid as we were, in the second half when we were under pressure and set up to play on the counter, we didn't have anyone with the vision to start the counters. Pogba would do that, and we often saw this in the World Cup when he would release Kylian Mbappe.
Thought he was fine. Some of the passing he displayed was fantastic, especially in the first half. Felt his decison making in the second half on the counter could have been a bit better, though.
I do think we need more width, though. We need one of our wingers to hug the touchline, then make darting runs from out to in. There were a few occasions Sanchez did it, but Pogba didn't spot the run.
I think if we're going to play with a double pivot, which is more or less what we did yesterday, with Fellaini and Matic, then maybe we should sacrifice one of those players and put Pogba further back, with a more traditional number 10 and a winger to keep the width.
As solid as we were, in the second half when we were under pressure and set up to play on the counter, we didn't have anyone with the vision to start the counters. Pogba would do that, and we often saw this in the World Cup when he would release Kylian Mbappe.
Oh you'll see him out. How kind of you.
Some ridiculously demanding posters on here, and Pogba captures it more than many. He’s amazing, and was so yesterday. We need more at his level, and we can be absolutely certain that if he’s sold, his replacement will not be as good.
I don’t get why he get’s more criticism than praise in this country, when he’s easily in the best very few midfielders here.
I don’t get why he get’s more criticism than praise in this country, when he’s easily in the best very few midfielders here.
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