DatIrishFella
Band of Brothers, Thief
I watched it. The fecking scumbag was a master manipulator. A real evil piece of work.
I'm confused, are you arguing that people should just believe everything that is being claimed ?Yes but this isn't a criminal procedure and people don't pass judgment according to criminal law, for all sorts of good reasons. It just seems like some people in here are acting like MJ's defence attorney, actively challenging people on the nuances of the case.
Defence attorneys have an explicit incentive to do so. What is it you get out of it? It just seems detached from the big picture, from my perspective. You have to be very involved to go out there and actively argue against others, when you hold such a similar starting belief.
Modern age media has made people extremely gullible. Look at all those Netflix anti law enforcement documentaries. There was one about two kids who murdered one's parents with a baseball bat. There is an insane amount of evidence that they did it and are guilty but watching the Netflix documentary you'd think they were innocent.I’ve seen similarities in stories being mentioned a couple of times. I think over twenty years is enough time to get your similar stories straight.
No one knows what went on, I’m not even a fan of MJ but still shocked at peoples rush to judge after watching a piece of tv documentary even after law courts could not provide enough evidence.
I know, money, but still.
Like he Steven Avery case, it’s clear he’s guilty but a bloody Netflix series has people petitioning for his release. feck sakeModern age media has made people extremely gullible. Look at all those Netflix anti law enforcement documentaries. There was one about two kids who murdered one's parents with a baseball bat. There is an insane amount of evidence that they did it and are guilty but watching the Netflix documentary you'd think they were innocent.
I haven't seen this documentary but no documentary should be enough to convince you of something you thought of otherwise before imo.
Bless the caftards with proper sense of humourI'll watch it tomorrow and make my own judgement based on my unparalleled body language reading skills.
Jackson fitted the criminal profile of a predatory paedophile to a tee. He acted so much like a massive pedo that he was adopted as a pedo icon by the American Man and Boy freaks that wanted to normalise paedophilia ffs.I haven't seen this documentary but no documentary should be enough to convince you of something you thought of otherwise before imo.
1.American criminal justice system is trashWhat ?
Isn’t it by a UK director? Dan Reed? The guy behind the Pedo hunter documentary with Stinson HunterAmerican "documentaries", where they have to sensationalize even the simplest animal documentaries on National Geographic like some sort of Sci-Fi movie where Megalodon might be still alive to get you *suspense music* *horrific look on the face of some unknown second rate Biologist*.
Can't wait.
You'd be surprised then.Jackson fitted the criminal profile of a predatory paedophile to a tee. He acted so much like a massive pedo that he was adopted as a pedo icon by the American Man and Boy freaks that wanted to normalise paedophilia ffs.
I don't think anyone will be making their mind up about Jackson from this documentary alone.
Why ?1.American criminal justice system is trash
2.You should always believe the victim in cases of sexual abuse.
Surely only people who have never heard of MJ could do that?You'd be surprised then.
Plenty of people who listen to an interview with Oprah and say "ah so he's innocent" only to watch a documentary and go "He's guilty!!!"Surely only people who have never heard of MJ could do that?
No not at all. I'm not arguing for anything. I'm asking a question. If you think, on the whole, there's a good chance it happened, does it make that much of a difference whether you can prove it or not?I'm confused, are you arguing that people should just believe everything that is being claimed ?
Not one of those posts answer what I quoted you for.These are all excellent posts and effectively answer certain posters for me. I have little to add to them.
If that's what you think I did, then I have to apologise because I've clearly given off the wrong impression.No not at all. I'm not arguing for anything. I'm asking a question. If you think, on the whole, there's a good chance it happened, does it make that much of a difference whether you can prove it or not?
It makes a big difference in a criminal proceeding, obviously. I'm curious why it does outside of that. Surely the reasonable belief already destroys his reputation as much as it could? I can't see what else the evidence would do, at an individual level.
This is on the premise that you think there's a good chance it happened. For anyone else - which you may be - I can understand why it animates them. It's the people seemingly on the fence that think it's probably true, but don't know it's true, that I find curious. Not quietly sitting on the defence, but openly attacking other people's assertions of his guilt over a question of degrees. What drives that? That's all.
Because sexual abuse is traumatising enough to begin with. Without having to convince someone of your story. Not to mention how it makes it somewhat easier for victims to come forward. I mean there are tons of other reasons too. Also, American criminal justice system is trash.Why ?
The quote you bolded specifically referred to Jackson, not Oprah or Netflix docs.Plenty of people who listen to an interview with Oprah and say "ah so he's innocent" only to watch a documentary and go "He's guilty!!!"
Like I said, look at Netflix. Biased documentaries all over.
If someone makes their mind up over the Bashir interview that's sad.The quote you bolded specifically referred to Jackson, not Oprah or Netflix docs.
It's quite relevant as nearly everyone who will watch this documentary will know about MJ paying off Jordie Chandler and others, sleeping with children, the Bashir interview and general erratic behaviour. So, they will by no means be making up their mind based on the documentary alone.
What a sweeping statement.American "documentaries", where they have to sensationalize even the simplest animal documentaries on National Geographic like some sort of Sci-Fi movie where Megalodon might be still alive to get you *suspense music* *horrific look on the face of some unknown second rate Biologist*.
Can't wait.
Not really the point I was making.If someone makes their mind up over the Bashir interview that's sad.
Even to your point, there are definitely people who will change their view based solely on this documentary.Not really the point I was making.
Is that even a bad thing? A documentary like this allows people to focus on the victims and rightfully question the 05 trial and other allegations.Even to your point, there are definitely people who will change their view based solely on this documentary.
Guilty until proven otherwise is a dangerous presedent.Because sexual abuse is traumatising enough to begin with. Without having to convince someone of your story. Not to mention how it makes it somewhat easier for victims to come forward. I mean there are tons of other reasons too. Also, American criminal justice system is trash.
Great post.Simon shared with us in this thread that he was a victim of child abuse so he would understand the reasoning of these two men sharing their stories now. I kind of think its bullshit to not believe a victim of grooming and pedophilia just because they didn't run out of the room screaming the minute they were touched. Coming to terms with something like this is a long process especially when the icon of prepubescent boys is the perpetrator. We must also consider that in a lot of instances the only semblance of justice and truth for victims comes through civil courts.
Ask anyone who had to deal with a the catholic church to hold sexual abusers accountable, they will tell you how easy it was for them to be silenced when family members who were meant to protect them were actually enabling the abuse. You are fighting deep pockets and an institution that is to be protected at all cost. In the 80's and 90's Jackson was an institution.
Now if we want to talk about the 05 case well let's look at the rhetoric of his legal team, kind of disgraceful to be honest. And if you think the legal system here is beyond reproach, well I have a lovely bridge for sale. This is a system that would have me on a register and my life in tatters if I took a piss against an elementary school wall on the way home from the pub but will allow a human trafficker and serial child rapist like Jeffrey Epstein basically go free because he had a dodgy prosecutor (who is now trump's labor secretary) who cowered at the sight of money and power.
Link ?Great post.
One of the worst defenses is the one of well my kid was at that church or school and nothing happened to them so that couldnt have happened to that kid.
Also that because the earlier case were dropped or settled really doesnt mean that he was innocent. Only there was a lack of evidence and way to much defensive power on the other side.
The statistics regarding false accusations in rape and sex related crimes is know and the FBI claims its around 8% (even going as low as 2% or as high as 10%). Its really strange to have all these reports and accusations regarding Jackson and being a regular occurrence for decades for them all to being false.. That really doesnt make much sense at all.
I think you might be missing the fecking point mateGuilty until proven otherwise is a dangerous presedent.
Its fairly easy to find links related to this subject.Link ?
How soI think you might be missing the fecking point mate
I think peace of mind for the guys he molested and also Jackson was a scumbag who deserves ridicule and hate, not love. He deserves a tarnished legacy and the people that covered up his disgusting past don't deserve to profit from him the way his estate makes millions, no, billions since his death. That's blood money.What's to be gained by making this documentary other than the money from advertising revenue made during ad breaks?
I mean there isn't a person alive that wouldn't agree MJ was a monumental weirdo. A pedophile? I don't know (and I mean that sincerely, I wouldn't know). Does this mean these people are liars? No. But what's to be gained? MJ is dead and can't be held accountable. Even if it's 100% true what will happen ultimately?
Just watching the last episode of Surviving R Kelly now, I really didn’t know this was going on.I wonder if MJ and R Kelly talked about their shared hobby.
Simple thing for you to say. You're effectively telling me that society should castrate certain mentally ill people of society.Bearing in mind you will effectively ruin the life of an innocent child if you act upon it, they could make the decision to chemically castrate.
Do they need to go on television for that? Surely there's a case that they are being exploited for gain?I think peace of mind for the guys he molested and also Jackson was a scumbag who deserves ridicule and hate, not love. He deserves a tarnished legacy and the people that covered up his disgusting past don't deserve to profit from him the way his estate makes millions, no, billions since his death. That's blood money.
I also think it sets a precedent that no matter how much you try to cover it up and manipulate people and act all innocent you can and likely will be found and exposed for it. It's also a warning for parents who perhaps have vulnerable children in similar positions.