Noted with timestamp and everything.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
I dont think it’s controversial to say he has stagnated but I always get attacked in Martial threads.
To be fair “lack of improvement” he got pretty decent at holding his position as a double left back under Jose so I think it’s hard to say he hasn’t improved since he arrived here. Attacking not much has changed except he seems much more stronger now and his hold up is probably better due to that but doesn’t to me seem to have that “anything could happen” when he got on the ball when he first arrived.
I seconded this, discussing Martial with Haram is like discussing logic with religious people, it's kinda impossible. Fortunately, with Lukaku almost gone, we will hear less and less bs from him.
Back to the topic, I like Martial but he definitely needs to step up this season, maybe getting a decent chance to play up top or with Rashford as a front two will reignite the Martial we know in Monaco and in first season at Man Utd.
His apparent weaknesses in workrate and movement can be honed in training and i'm quite confident Ole is the man to kick his bollocks if he doesn't try to improve them.
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You are attacked because you have zero balance and are fixated on Martial. When we are talking about your darlings, it's the complete opposite and you make outlandish excuses, like for Lukaku.
I dont think it’s controversial to say he has stagnated but I always get attacked in Martial threads.
The reality regarding Martial is fairly boring, he is very talented, he is surprisingly productive but he isn't driven and hasn't improved enough, some of it is due to the coaches but most of it is due to himself, he has always been a player that needs to be kicked in the backside and that's why I wasn't for the move to United, he needed to stay in Monaco with Jardim for at least a season or two.
He was joy to watch in that first season. Trying to take on the defender whenever possible, scoring and assisting goals.
He still is very good player to watch when he has the ball.
Lukaku has his faults but in my opinion is a better forward than Martial. Also Lukaku and Rashford are way more heavily criticised which is why I defend them more. Rashford has his faults as well of course.
Playing the "I told you so" game. Repeating the same thing over and over, when everyone already knows your stance. It's like a child sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting lalalalalala. Either add something new to the conversation or pipe down.
Its kinda clear to see, Martial and Lukaku were on different sides. Sanchez joining in just boosted whole thing, culminated with famous summer transfer window of last year, didnt see anything like it before, the amount of drivel was spouted in the name of JM, holy shit. Oh almost forgot, wasnt there also something about Martial being autistic etc.
And that's wrong. On the field and even statistically, they are all in the same bracket which is an issue for one of them, the older one. I don't want to be harsh on them because they are all far better than we pretend, the issue is that they don't necessarily belong in the same team for the same coaches, Martial and Rashford have flaws that are common among young players(U23), decision making and game management, while Lukaku is an above average player who could in the correct system be a big success.
About game management, Martial not running around isn't necessarily an issue as long as he reads the game well enough to understand when he needs to play at an higher rhythm, that's basically what Ibrahimovic has done for his entire career but to do that you need to be in a team that is adapted it(and be smart) which was the case under LVG and not the case under Mourinho. Truth be told, he probably should be sold.
Solskjaer was full of praise for Martial in the Press conference. Also said his work rate is improving, also his attitude, how he came back to preseason.
Well if he works on his work rate and movement he would legitimately be a top player. I always said that.
The fact that it is still a discussion about 'whether Martial has good movement, has stagnated etc..' tells you exactly what you need to know.
That is an average player, who should be no more than a squad player, if that, at a ckub like Manchester United. We used to have players like Pique and Rossi on the bench!
Our standards have been taken in one direction, down, and now we have fans trying to convince both themselves and others that Martial, Lindgard, Mata can somehow take Manchester United to a competitive level with the other big clubs in Europe.
Anthony Martial's attitide is a disgrace. You can see it. Week in, week out. The guy plays as if he is entitled, and with little pride. Deschamps didn't hesitiate to drop him from the National team, and even when they lost Nasri, and Benzema, he wouldn't even consider Martial. Why? Because he knows that he simply is not that good, and therefore not that relevant.
Anthony Martial was given (hell knows why..) a massive new contract, after another poor season. And now our great hope, OGS, is talking about his 'potential'.
It's embarrasing, we have become an also-rans team, right in front of our own eyes as fans.
I said before, I want him out the club, because as long as he is there, he represents where Man Utd feel they should be.
That is an average player, who should be no more than a squad player, if that, at a ckub like Manchester United. We used to have players like Pique and Rossi on the bench!
Our standards have been taken in one direction, down, and now we have fans trying to convince both themselves and others that Martial, Lindgard, Mata can somehow take Manchester United to a competitive level with the other big clubs in Europe.
Anthony Martial's attitide is a disgrace. You can see it. Week in, week out. The guy plays as if he is entitled, and with little pride. Deschamps didn't hesitiate to drop him from the National team, and even when they lost Nasri, and Benzema, he wouldn't even consider Martial. Why? Because he knows that he simply is not that good, and therefore not that relevant.
Anthony Martial was given (hell knows why..) a massive new contract, after another poor season. And now our great hope, OGS, is talking about his 'potential'.
It's embarrasing, we have become an also-rans team, right in front of our own eyes as fans.
I said before, I want him out the club, because as long as he is there, he represents where Man Utd feel they should be.
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- Praised his attitude and how he came back to preseason.
- Says "ask Matic as well"
- new Martial in couple of instances, in the way he works for the team
- Work rate is improving.
While I agree with that to a certain degree Martial is not one of our most pressing concerns. If he is not fit to start our already underwhelming attacking line-up gets even worse.
Even the smallest possibility of starting any of Lingard, Mata, Sanchez or Lukaku (if still here) is what worries me.
He's definitely working harder in pressing off the ball that's for sure, we just need more movement from him but perhaps playing as a striker he understands that role better.
From the wing his off the ball running isn't good enough.
From the wing his off the ball running isn't good enough.
Hope it's true. He's at the moment an automatic starter next to rashford with one other part of that front 3, and I don't think he's ever quite had the role and responsibility going into a season. He always showed great periods of form, but inconsistency. Think it'll be a big year for him though.
I see your point and I also wish we had someone like RVP (in his prime), but it's not like we always had world class strikers in our starting 11. Even when we had Ole playing for us people were talking about his potential.
don't get me wrong, I certainly have not given up on him as there is a player in there. same as with Rashford.
We'll see on the pitch week in week out. Loads of big talks about how changed the players were and how hard they worked in the past pre-seasons.
Thing is, I think he has forgotten how to play as a #9, his positioning in these last two games was all over the place and didn't seem a threat at all. I can't see what kind of #9 he is supposed to be. Not a poacher, not a target man, in fact he played so deep he was more of a #10, yet he isn't creative enough or good enough at passing to be a #10. Always seemed to me to be a left inside forward in a 4-3-3, and seems to not fit a 4-2-3-1 to me.
I think this is his problem in general really, he doesn't understand how to position himself. If he has the ball at his feet he's great, but below average off it.
For this reason he will never be world class.
yes, we all hope. Believe me, depsite my cynicism, we hope. But I also look at what has happened over the last few seasons. Nice warm pre-season games in the States etc, with 45 mins here and there, that's fine. It's the week in, week out, playing against other very good players... that's the Anthony Martial I am interested in.
The Premiership is only going to get tougher. We have to rise to that challenge. And that is through our Coaching staff and players... so I do hope all the OGS positivity about Martial et al is genuine.
The Premiership is only going to get tougher. We have to rise to that challenge. And that is through our Coaching staff and players... so I do hope all the OGS positivity about Martial et al is genuine.
Right. Someone far more qualified than you has just said he is potentially a world class forward and also said he's very happy with him so far, indicating that if he keeps it up, he'll be world class. I'm slightly more inclined to believe him, as I'm sure most people are.
What are you so upset for? Ole is trying to talk him up and give him confidence, it's basic management.
It's pretty obvious Martial's movement is his weakness, I don't need a coaching badge for that
Of course he is "potentially" but that is Martials middle name isn't it? He's made no improvements in this regard since we first signed him.
He won't be being played as a number 9 either IMO, as Rashford / Greenwood already show better ability in that position.
The thing with Martial is that it's not like he hasnt shown hes capable of it. Hes shown brilliant runs of form, he has performances that are exactly what you want to see, or sub appearances. It's just that they're really inconsistent. Of course he needs to improve his movement and work rate and mentality, but I think its improving it to have it in every game, having that bare minimum level where he's focused motivated and alive in every game. Far too often he's flat, but with occasionally coming alive.
We'll see if he can put it together, but I think he'll have a very good season.
We'll see if he can put it together, but I think he'll have a very good season.
Me to as am on record saying many times he is potentially world class. Some players take a bit longer for the penny to drop.
Fantastic player and really excited about how what Ole is seeing in training will translate to the pitch this season.
I really like the player and has been great to read/contribute to most of the posts here that have contributed to such an interesting debate. We all have different opinions but in the main the respect for opinions that do not align with your own have made it really good fun to discuss.
Yes not as if the person saying that has a vested interest in the success of said player... It's his manager haha.
Sadly Martial has not only stagnated since he arrived but has definitely gotten worse. He just doesn't play with any sort of consistency and might become a good rotational player but he is so lacking in concentration, movement and work rate that I don't think we'd do worse even if we placed him with an academy player like Chong or Gomes.
I really don't believe him not running around or running less is a big problem by itself . I don't remember it being a problem in his first year (maybe he ran less I think ?). He played in a system that suited him. The long balls is just an example. If you asked a player who prefers the ball to be played aerially to suddenly sprint and press it's not going to suit him in the same way. But it's not a weakness if he plays in a system which covers that. A player who wants the ball to his feet more can be covered in a similar way . If you watch Martial he's very good at injecting the tempo very suddenly but it doesn't happen for 80/90 minutes. Just 4/5 times the whole match and by one or two tries he succeeds in creating a dangerous chance. In a different system it's not weakness but it could be exposed in this one.His lack of energy and work rate is not exaggerated. It's obvious weakness and proven by stats.
Aim is not to close the passing lane alone, it's also to put pressure on the player in possession, something that should be done with intensity.
Not sure why you keep talking about long balls, forget long balls we don't even cross the ball. There is middle ground between Martial and Tevez/Rooney. Winger covering less distance than CB/CF is just very poor. I don't understand how anyone can defend that.
Saying player has some weakness doesn't mean we don't rate the player(excluding @haram) . It's something that should be worked on for the benefit of team and player himself.
Bold part, that's what wrong with your argument and player himself. He should be encouraged to improve his obvious weakness.
p.s btw it's 180, not 360. 360 is the starting point
Anyways he's here he should follow the instructions of the manager and do his best to adapt some things for this new style. For the success of our season.
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I agree, especially on Rashford. Feels like some people just find reasons to dislike him. We genuinely have a fantastic talent on our hands.
It's same for every player. I don't think there is any player who doesn't get criticism. Maybe only Romero is safe.
He’ll have 1 or 2 excellent games and then disappear into the void again. I hope i’m wrong though. When he’s on song, he’s incredible.
Exactly, he needs to improve on other things but his main flaw concerns his intensity management. For me Ribéry is the perfect example, at his peak he wasn't always running like an headless chicken or pressing like a mad man. He would pick his moments and make them count, there are moments where the opposition is on the back foot that's when you need to press at very high intensity or counter attack at 100%. People talk aboutthe quality of his off the ball runs but I'm more bothered by the moments where we are on the counter and he isn't joining the attack at full intensity, a lot of our players have that issue but as an attacker he should be eager to exploit these moments.
I'm not upset, just pointing out that your opinion is meaningless given that the man who watches him every day has given an opinion on the same day that is the complete opposite of yours.What are you so upset for? Ole is trying to talk him up and give him confidence, it's basic management.
It's pretty obvious Martial's movement is his weakness, I don't need a coaching badge for that
Of course he is "potentially" but that is Martials middle name isn't it? He's made no improvements in this regard since we first signed him.
He won't be being played as a number 9 either IMO, as Rashford / Greenwood already show better ability in that position.
Just as a side note, players and managers don't just throw around the term world class. Who else has Ole called world class or potentially world class?
Yes of course he does. Not disputing that, but as I've mentioned people in football dont just throw around the term world class.
Yeah i like the discussion about him as well, provided it's in good faith. I think this will be a big season for him, probably make or break for him in terms of his United career, but the early signs are good.
I respect Ole's opinion of course, but I don't see it becoming feasible.
Fergie compared Phil Jones to Duncan Edwards, doesn't mean he was right.
TO ME Martial just doesn't have the natural instincts of a world class striker. Compare him to Aguero/Kane/Lewandowski/Suarez and they sniff out goals by being in the right place at the right time. Martial ball watches and hangs outside of the box too much to get the scruffy goals.
I hope he proves me wrong.
Yes of course but you probably could say that about pretty much every single player.
Sir Alex was ruthless in that respect and even the likes of Rooney / Beckham were benched in big games. Beckham - leeds/Real madrid when OGS was preferred. Rooney when Welbeck got the nod.
I am sure OGS will do the same because he can this season as he has bought really well.
In fairness, Phil Jones' career was ruined by injury, he was very promising back in the day.
You're comparing him to 4 of the best strikers in the world who have played nowhere but through the centre their entire careers, rather than being shunted out wide. Let's be realistic here, he obviously won't be spending as much time in the box playing as a conventional winger under Mourinho, rather than a centre forward in attacking teams.
He does have to improve, but to say he has no chance of becoming world class is nonsensical, he has all the physical and technical tools and is just entering the point in his career when consistency usually start to develop. He's still 23, by the premier league's definition, he is still a young player.
Promising. Will wait to see proof on the pitch.Tweet
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- Praised his attitude and how he came back to preseason.
- Says "ask Matic as well"
- new Martial in couple of instances, in the way he works for the team
- Work rate is improving.
Hopefully it's not just Ole trying to build him up a bit to try to get more out of him.
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