Some people fail to grasp that good managers can provide the direction pretty quickly, with Klopp it was clear straight away that a lot of teams could not handle their style only for them to draw/lose due to stupid mistakes by Karius/Mingnolet/Lovren/Moreno etc. when they were right on top of other teams. With Ole we're losing games deservedly to most bottom teams after a year in charge. I'm really not sure how people are missing this by bringing up Pep/Klopp etc. to the conversation.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Spot on. Agree with every single word here.
Incredible stuff. I have seen it all I guess.
LVG's football was literally sleep inducing most of the time, but you could clearly see what he was trying to do, and with a Pogba in that side and a bit more quality it would be way more successful than whatever it is Ole is trying to do.
2 midfielders this window and Ole can push for top 4.
No manager in world football would get much more out of the players we currently have available for selection. If Klopp tried to play his style with this group we would concede about 6 goals a game.
Ole is certainly not the big problem here - I think he’s doing ok given how poor this squad is. I don’t buy that he signed off about the lack of signings - no manager turns down the opportunity to get new players.
For the last 3 managers I, like many others, have said many times it’s not just the manager but lack of quality in the squad. People judge the squad based on fees paid but the reality is they are worth much, much less. Changing Ole now without backing him more will just set us back further. We are currently 5th so forget about him getting sacked for the foreseeable future. Support the club and vent your anger towards Woodward and the Glazers. Ole can and will get us back into a top 4 side if he’s backed properly, I’m sure of it. That’s the first target and he’s currently on course.
No manager in world football would get much more out of the players we currently have available for selection. If Klopp tried to play his style with this group we would concede about 6 goals a game.
Ole is certainly not the big problem here - I think he’s doing ok given how poor this squad is. I don’t buy that he signed off about the lack of signings - no manager turns down the opportunity to get new players.
For the last 3 managers I, like many others, have said many times it’s not just the manager but lack of quality in the squad. People judge the squad based on fees paid but the reality is they are worth much, much less. Changing Ole now without backing him more will just set us back further. We are currently 5th so forget about him getting sacked for the foreseeable future. Support the club and vent your anger towards Woodward and the Glazers. Ole can and will get us back into a top 4 side if he’s backed properly, I’m sure of it. That’s the first target and he’s currently on course.
Personally, I'd put that down to the coaching. It's become a trend in Shaw's game that either the coaching staff are fine with or they are not doing much about it, otherwise he would have been dropped.
Even with AWB, while his natural attacking instincts are not high, those type of runs should be drilled into him by the coaching staff. If you don't drill particular movements into players then they will just revert to what they're used to/most comfortable and with Shaw and AWB it will offer little from an attacking perspective.
Lads. Close the thread. Hes sure of it.
If Ole gets all the players he wants and implements his philosophy will we win anything with him? That is the main question. In the PL only Leicester has won using Ole's methods while no recent CL team has won with Ole's methods.
I don't see the point of continuing with this and the stupidity of Woodward to get sold by a philosophy that barely gets you top 4 in the long run is damning.
I don't see the point of continuing with this and the stupidity of Woodward to get sold by a philosophy that barely gets you top 4 in the long run is damning.
An opinion cannot be wrong, it's subjective, that's why it's called an opinion and not fact. You cannot say someone he/she is wrong to have liked watching certain type of football. Go check that up.
OK, so if my opinion is that the earth is flat, that vaccines are bad for you, that Trump is a good man, the Brexit is great for the UK, that genocide is a good thing... then you can't say I'm wrong, because it's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.
What an atrocious post. Why are you confusing facts with opinions. Earth is demonstrably not flat. Vaccines protect your from getting infections later in life. Genocide causes unnecessary suffering of humans. With Brexit and Trump people can have opinions because you cannot demonstrate its good or bad yet.
How can you demonstrate to me that LVG's football is boring, it's my preference. Same way can you tell a homosexual person that their own gender is not attractive? That would be intolerance. If you cannot demonstrate, then people are entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind that people's opinions can change over time.
The point is that stating your opinion and saying "hey, look, it's just my opinion, you can't actually say it's wrong!" is a really lazy argument in general. If you're in the extreme minority of people who have your opinion then there's a strong chance it's wrong.
Personally I'd demonstrate it by the number of times that I actually dozed off for 20 minutes whilst watching United, awoke to discover that we still hadn't taken a shot at goal...Zzzz, Zzzz, Zzzz..
The moaning ole out brigade just hate a bit of positivity. Sad.
I believe the point here is not really what Ferguson did in his first season alone, but what he did in his first seasons in general.
Ferguson took over a side which had placed either 3rd or 4th the five seasons prior to him taking over. Yes, they were in 21st place when he took over, which is why he can not be criticized for only achieving 11th in his first season. But he then proceeded to finish 2nd, 11th, 13th and 6th before finally winning the league in his fifth full season.
In other words, in his second full season, he took a team that had been 2nd the year before, and worse than 4th only one time in seven seasons, to 11th place in the league. In his third season, he regressed further to 13th Place. The fourth season saw improvement again with 6th place, but still that would have been far from what is currently acceptable here. I won't even start to imagine how the caf would have treated him in his second and third seasons.
We all agree that Ole is no Fergie. But Ferguson's initial years does give some perspective to the Ole debate. To me, the club is now in every way in as much of a need of rebuild as it was when Ferguson took over in 1986. I am not sure that Ole will be the one to steer the team to titles again. But one can say a few things from Ferguson's United statistics:
1) If a club has gone wrong, a proper rebuild will take time. Even a manager as great as Alex Ferguson needed a number of years to get United on track.
2) Patience can give great rewards. Ferguson would never have taken United to the heights he did if he had not been given the necessary patience in his first years.
Even if we are erratic at times, struggle to break down park the bus teams and don't win enough, I generally find that I agree with the steps Ole are taking to move the club back on track:
- Out with players who are expensive/mercenaries/old/without sufficient mobility
- Emphasise on developing young players from within
- Buying for the future as much as for the current year
- There seem to be a focus on players with speed, mobility and energy
- He seem to have focused on fixing the defence first. In a perspective that goes beyound the next game, and in a world where we can not buy 8 world class players at once, I am fine with that. I am sure he will aim to bring in players who can break down a defence in the next transwer windows.
- Fergie's teams were always deadly on the counter. That is back with Ole
-It seems that he is successfull in installing a team spirit and passion in the team, which I have not seen since Fergie's days (with some exeptions, such as the Arsenal game).
For me it would be madness to kick him out now, with so much work still to be done on the transition side. As Ferguson's early years shows, transition will take time if a club has lost its way. To me, sacking Ole now and bringing in a "top" manager for short term success comes with ith a huge risk, as we may be back to square one if this new manager is not successful in the short term.
It seems clear to me that any manager, even Fergie, would struggle to obtain consistant success with the current United squad. Based on the actions he has taken so far, it does however seem to me that Ole is close to the perfect fit to take us through the rebuilding process of the next few years. A "top" manager will be much more likely to succeed if he takes over in two years, compared to today.
In my view, Ole also deserves a lot of credit and respect for taking the long perspective even at the expense of his own managerial career and reputation, due to his love for the club. Most other managers would be much more focused on the short term in order not to risk their reputation, but as Fergie's early United years shows, patience and a long term perspective is some times needed to get a club back on track. I can not really see us getting that to the same degree from any other manager than Ole.
Other managers would be much more focused on the short term in order not to risk their reputation, but as Fergie's early United years shows, patience and a long term perspective is some times needed to get a club back on track. I can not really see us getting that to the same degree from any other manager than Ole, as the downside to such an approach is ridicule and a destroyed reputation if the manager is eventually not successful or given sufficient time to oversee the transition. Imagine Fergusons reputation in the early nineties if we had lost the famous game to Norwich and he had been sacked in the winter of 1990.
And again, I am in no way saying that Ole is the new Fergie, only that the club is at a point in time where patience and a long term perspective is needed, like in the 1986-90 period. And in my view, Ole is the correct manager for such a period.
But it's non-sensical. His results would be measured against what he took over.
Ole has just said in his pre match for Wolves, that he thought we didnt play badly against Arsenal.
He called it a high quality match in his post match interview.Ole has just said in his pre match for Wolves, that he thought we didnt play badly against Arsenal.
There is absolutely nothing to be positive about right now. We are on a highway to hell with Ole at the wheel.
I think it fair to point out that our squad is thin and everyone predicted we'd struggle with injuries to our midfield and strikers. But you can basicly say about any manager and a biggish club that they might turn into Saf if given 6 years. It's a really lame argument.
High quality match. From an Arsenal perspective I assume, because we were anything but high quality
But I am not saying that he will turn into SAF. I am saying the opposite, that Ole is not SAF.
What I am saying, and you seem to have missed the point, is that when a club has gone wrong, a rebuild can be a massive job. Even SAF needed a number of years to get things on track when he took over.
So the point is not that Ole is or may become SAF, but that patience is currently needed regardless of manager. What is important is whether we are going in the right direction. And for me, Ole is taking us to a better place, even if current results are not good enough.
Saf didnt rebuilt a 20 title winning team, saf rebuild a relegation battler.
Ole took over a much better team with less pedigree than saf. Stop comparing them both.
If its a like for like situation as in ole winning trebel with molde against real madrid, taking overr united in relegation battle then yes he deserve the same 6 years.
It's just kind of daft keep bringing up Saf without comparing them. We've done this with all our managers, moyes, lvg and mourinho. Let's judge managers on their own merit.
No, it was atrocious.
Thank you. You are the only one who can see what I was getting at. You cant throw someone on the scrap heap after a year as even the great man had ups and downs and would have been called out on here by a lot of the ones that are calling for oles head. Give him at least the end of the season ffs
Patience is fine, as long as it's built on something, not being patient for the sake of it. Of course, it's a matter of perspective at this point. You think he is taking us forward so you believe he should get more time. Other think he's not taking us anywhere and don't like his vision so they feel being patient is a waste of time rather than a required step for success. All depends on your perspective and evaluation of what he has done so far this. You can't ask others to be patient for several years while at the mean time they don't like the vision or style the manager is supposedly applying.
I guess you never saw fans at OT falling asleep then ?
. Bonkers comment! SAF's last 4 seasons post Ronaldo were still entertaining as hell don't give a feck what anyone says!I agree with you here, it’s still the highest quality of technical proficiency any team under the recent managers has shown. Just needed additions to it to become more potent. there was no one in midfield to drive on or that would take a chance, hence why Lingard got that role.
At least LVG had an approach to football that was not from the stoneage, compared to Moyes, JM and OGS.I guess you never saw fans at OT falling asleep then ?
LVG wanted players that were technically capable and could pass the ball and attacking players with individual abilities and mobility. If we had followed his blueprint of what type of players you needed and keep possession, then we would not have been where we are now.
His approach is the only one since SAF that had any chance of being successful long term.
It was just a boring attempt at tiki taka passing it backwards and sideways. It was dreadfully boring most of the time.
If you got more excited with LvG's sleep-inducing crap football than SAF's title-winning last year with RvP flying on the pitch, you may want to consider watching curling instead of football. Unless curling is also too fast-paced for you.
I think your league positions for fergie may have been a bit off as we came second in 92, not 6th, unless you did a weird reverse league position order.
Also, fergie had a far better track record than ole before becoming united manager. What he did with aberdeen was amazing really.
I'd also say that football has changed a lot since the 80s. There is far more at stake both in terms of club reputation and financially now. We can't give ole 3 years of mediocrity in the hope that he will suddenly turn into a world class manager. Yeah we counter like fergie teams did but under fergie we could also break teams down time and time again. Ole's united are almost completely incapable of playing through teams and after a year that is down to coaching.
Ole can't be given credit for wins against the big boys and then a shit squad get blamed for when we fail to beat crap teams. Its either all him or none of it is.
I agree we need a long term approach. I'm just not sure ole is the right man for that job. I hope i'm wrong.
* Yes you are. By claiming patience is required for Ole and claiming he's "the correct manager to do a Fergie" is to compare him to Fergie, of course it is.
What the shit are you going on about. For a start SAF finished 2nd twice in his first 4 years, if Ole like Fergie finishes 2nd in his first full year I'll be screaming from the rooftops that he deserves time despite him having zero pedigree like Fergie had. Will he though? Or will he likely finish 6th?
I'll tell who you the correct manager for this period was, a guy who, like Fergie had proven himself beyond a reasonable doubt before getting a job to rebuild a behemoth of a club. A guy who'd proven prior to taking the job that he could get a side to perform as a collective way above their individual talents and a guy who in his first season and a half can take a team from 21st to 11th and then 11th to 2nd.
The guy for such a period is not Ole just because @abbulf thinks he is and likes the noises he makes.
That's not going to happen because his targets are way too elusive for the master-plan he's trying to sell. There is a reason Dybala didn't want to come here but days later had everything agreed with Spurs, or Eriksen preferring to stay at Spurs instead of coming to Utd. That's Tottenham Hotspur for you, the club this forum laughed at for years and years. What chance do we have against the actual big boys when competing for top talent?
If given time, I see Ole saddling us with ton of average British talent while blowing significant amount of money on wages and fee on them. Just look at the fee/wages we are paying to Maguire/AWB and the fee touted for likes of Longstaff, Rice, Maddison and Grealish. I've said it a while ago, when its all said and done, Ole would've done more damage to this club than any of the previous 3 managers post SAF.
We can change the manager but honestly, I don't expect much of an improvement, if any at all. Ole is doing about as well as he can with the tools he's been given. That's not to say he hasn't made mistakes though, he definitely has, but when you look at the alarming lack of depth and quality throughout that squad (the only position where you can say we have proper quality and depth in is GK, FFS!) that we're still in the mix for top 4 is both a testament to Ole and a few members of the squad who have stepped up massively, and a damning indictment on the rest of the league, in equal measure.
I'm hoping that Woodward will confound expectations, but deep down, I know better than to do that.
I'm hoping that Woodward will confound expectations, but deep down, I know better than to do that.
He's probably judging us by Norwegian football standards.Ole has just said in his pre match for Wolves, that he thought we didnt play badly against Arsenal.
No he hasn't, that's absolute bollox.
This is the problem, if the manager finds those kind of performances acceptable then we have no hope.Ole has just said in his pre match for Wolves, that he thought we didnt play badly against Arsenal.
Any other manager would have made a change at 30 minutes because it looked like they just waited for half time.
Then at half time no changes made either?
Absolutely clueless he is. Very delusional too.