Nah, I didn't.
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
- Thread starter Tommy
- Start date
I’d take that as I Can’t imagine a Syrian prison is a good place to be at the best of times, I’d much rather she live out her days there than the 3* bed and breakfast she’d get in our prison.
This was just the UK dodging its responsibilities and passing them on to countries that don't have the same resources to handle the situation or countries where she will not get a fair trial. If she was british, you had to get her back and put her on trial. Anything else is just irresponsible.
Is that even true? Her mom was British too and claimed to not have dual citizenship. Bangladesh also clarified that mom was not a citizen there.
The whole "let's shift it to Bangladesh" is just awful.
You clearly don't.
So what would you do with a British citizen who does not have ties to another country?
I read a story about an Indian couple in the UK who paid to have their adopted son murdered in India for insurance payout. The UK courts have blocked their extradition to India because they would face the death penalty and that is against the European human rights act. If shamima is sent to Bangladesh then I think she won't survive longer than a month before she's done in by state security forces.
A tribunal ruled that Ms Begum could be stripped of her nationality because she had not been left stateless.
The Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC), a semi-secret court which hears national security cases, said she could instead turn to Bangladesh for citizenship.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c347vzp58nzt/shamima-begum-case
What do you mean ‘ was British?’ She is!
I'm questioning this. Did a basic lookup and only people who have at least one Bangladeshi parent are eligible to obtain citizenship. Neither of SBs parents are Bangladeshi. Bangladesh FM also confirmed this.
I support what the government are doing RE this situation in regards to doing everything they can to stop this cnut returning. I am surprised that she didn't win her first appeal though given that practically she has been made stateless after the Bangladeshi government wiped their hands of her. Regardless of the verdict in this appeal it is quite clear that both sides will continue to appeal so will just go on rumbling through the courts until it reaches a conclusion or until she's dead.
Yes, it's the reason why so many foreign born people of Bangladeshi background can't play for the national football team.
Yeah, I think this was all done for publicity by the right wing government.
My point was more about the long term implications, what if one day a really right wing extremist government manages to get in and starts stripping people of their citizenship just because their parents are from a different country.
Bangladesh had nothing to wipe their hands with, she's got nothing to do with them.
It's a slippery slope covered in oil
That would be you.
Let them die in a ditch? Deliver her to ISIS? I understand perfectly well the legal entanglements of trying to remove her citizenship, but that doesn't mean I give a damn about any miscarriage of justice for individuals like of her.
To think that has any ramifications for people with duel nationalities or foreign born parents who don't support and aid in the deaths of countless innocent people, is daft.
I meant washed. But yes, I agree.
Why not strip citizenship.?Oh..
Oh that would be horrible! Imagine aiding in the deaths of dozens of innocent lives and then having your citizenship revoked. The injustice of it all!
This would be a next level episode of Banged up Abroad.
Or The Undateables
I get it, your argument is emotional, no point taking this discussion further.
Stripping the citizenship of terrorists could be used as deterrent for future terrorists wanna be.
I don't think we should strip her citizenship and saying that she can be a Bangladeshi citizen because her parents (who I believe are also British citizens) were born in another country. It isn't football. In any case, we haven't done it before. Levi Bellfield was Romani and I'm fairly sure he has ancestors born outside the UK, but he gets the relatively cushy prison life in the UK.
But we don't have to extradite her. She committed the crimes in Syria, let Syria try her.
But we don't have to extradite her. She committed the crimes in Syria, let Syria try her.
Elvis goes on a date with a terrorist
I feel the society is hypocritical in this instance.
They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.
You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.
Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
They cared so much about one case but turns a blind eye on many injustices surrounding their daily life.
You all care for her one life yet made no qualms about isis killing thousands od people, which she took part in indirectly.
Why cant we tell her to feck off? What made her so special? Why dont we fought equally for her victims? Why is this one girl gets a preferential treatment? Even when she spat at your face and tells you she doesnt even feel remorse? Does her life worth so much more that you wanna waste taxpayer money on special treatnent for her while there are other people who needs care more than her? Do you extend the same ferocity towards other wartorn human being? Or was it because she's British?
My argument was there would be any absolutely no fallout for citizens with foreign parents, as you had suggested, other than 'don't do terrorism.'
I don't think so. Many people think those who choose to make an enemy of the country should not be afford the protections it provides. Labelling it emotional is a lazy way of avoiding the discussion.
That’s what rubs me up too. The message seems to be that if you’re British of foreign ethnicity and you're a good citizen, you’re one of us. But if you're a feck up, then you’re a foreign piece of shit that can feck off.
I don’t care what happens to her in the slightest. And, considering she’s not repentant even verbally, bringing her back means she’ll probably spent her days trying to radicalise other inmates and cost the taxpayer a pretty penny over the next 50 years. But feck me that’s the worst message to be sending to minority groups of this country and such a great propaganda tool for for those who want to radicalise them. “Why care about people that will never see you as one of their own anyway?”
Does that apply equally to everyone or just brown people?
It's not, I've been trying to have a discussion about the implications of it all, all he's been saying is she's a terrorist and should be left for dead, that's an emotional argument. We have terrorism laws here, she's British so should be tried by them, otherwise tried in the country she committed the crimes - but given the situation in Syria that isn't happening.
That's not exactly true, is it?
Where to? Afaik the Kurds want to get rid of foreign Jihadis, understandably so.
Yes, that seems to be the underlying logic. Happens in all kinds of variations in self-proclaimed liberal societies.
what the feck you on about?I find the general sentiment of your post to be misguided and without logic, but I find the bolder bit to be utterly bizarre. Isis share a platform with an ideology like the Nazis in that they are universally despised and their crimes have been widely condemned and talked about. Very odd post.
If she has made an enemy of her home nation then doesn't that give us the legal right to drone her tent in the refugee camp? I'm sure that would quickly nip this thing in the bud.
"So @esmufc07 that's an interesting name. What's your fave Elvis Presley song?"
"I Begum of you"
"...Prat"
Because, funnily enough, we're supposed to be held to a higher moral standard than IS. A democratic society, the same one that we keep travelling around the world trying to instill on other nations, is one of fair law and order. The right to a fair trial.
Just because you have a moral objection to someone and emotionally are compromised to the point where you hate them - and frankly I don't blame anyone who hates her and others who have joined IS - doesn't mean that those same laws we uphold as fundamentals of our democracy cease to exist.
But she's not in Britain. If she somehow makes it back here she can have her fair trial. Until then, I would hope she'd be dodging drones for the rest of her life if it wasn't for the fact it would be a waste of a 100k missile.
Nicely put. The bolded part is a really important argument. It wouldn't matter to me if Begum had murdered a million people with her own hands, it wouldn't change my stance. It's not for her sake that I think Britain should bring her back and put her on trial.
To be fair, nothing the conservative government have done here is out of step with the grand British legal tradition.
Read up about Charles I’s trial. If might makes right suffices for a king, why not a brown terrorist/terrorist sympathizer?
Read up about Charles I’s trial. If might makes right suffices for a king, why not a brown terrorist/terrorist sympathizer?
It doesn’t seem very ‘legal’ what we are doing but I don’t think you’d find too many people that would care.
Maybe whatever law it is should be should be changed so that if you do terrorist stuff and get caught in a foreign country then you are subject to their laws and we won’t bring you back even if you are looking at a short drop and a sharp stop.
I’d be happy with that.
There are both moral and legal issues here. Morally speaking, imo, she has no right to be allowed back into the UK. She burned that bridge by joining ISIS.
Legally, she may have certain rights of return but I’d love to see the morality overrule that.
If she has to return then jail her for the rest of her life.
Legally, she may have certain rights of return but I’d love to see the morality overrule that.
If she has to return then jail her for the rest of her life.