Protests following the killing of George Floyd

[noodlehair]

I'm still seeing the "racism is a bigger pandemic than corona virus" thing going round a lot. I don't get this at all. The two have nothing to do with each other. It's like saying cancer is a worse killer than falling off a cliff...sure is, but you can't walk off a cliff and not fall down just because you're fighting cancer, just like you can't not get corona virus just because you're fighting racism, so what on earth are you on about?

Surely the aim of all this (presuming there actually is one) is to bring amount meaningful change, which would involve education, a change of people's mindsets, and giving young black people better opportunities in life? Things that require engagement and a level of agreement between everyone. Can anyone actually explain how throwing a statue in the sea or telling the police they're racist for doing things like trying to stop drug dealing actually helps achieve this rather than just create opposition?

Sure makes you feel better to do angry things to show you're angry, but it sure doesn't do much to help either.

 

[neverdie]

There is a petition online to get the White cliffs of Dover renamed the Black Lives Matter cliffs of Dover.

I really hope that this is a parody. The cliffs are white in colour. Nothing to do with race ffs

The only way these things make sense is if various state backed groups are doing it. Like Russian computer farms. It's the best way to undermine the entire protest because it alienates public support. Ditto the statues.

No serious, self-respecting activist advocating revolutionary social change takes their point of departure from statues and the white cliffs of fecking Dover.

 

[Withnail]

I lived it mate!

Ah ok, I was born at the end of the 70s. Didn't realise you were a fossil

Don't ban me

 

[nimic]

There is a petition online to get the White cliffs of Dover renamed the Black Lives Matter cliffs of Dover.

I really hope that this is a parody. The cliffs are white in colour. Nothing to do with race ffs

It's so so so obviously a joke.

 

[neverdie]

It's so so so obviously a joke.

Do you think Daily Mail readers will get that nuance? I'm fairly certain it has its origins either in right wing movements or directly from state interference.

 

[Grinner]

Ah ok, I was born at the end of the 70s. Didn't realise you were a fossil

Don't ban me

my best mate was on Jim'll Fix It and I we were both on the Rolf Harris show. Amazed we got out unscathed quite frankly.

 

[nimic]

Do you think Daily Mail readers will get that nuance? I'm fairly certain it has its origins either in right wing movements or directly from state interference.

It might have its origin in right wing movements, but it might also just be a joke. It doesn't devalue everything else that is happening either. Though I would disagree that this is the same as the statues in any way. Taking down symbols of repression is not going to solve racism, but it might help a little bit in the long run. That's a genuine strategy. Signing a petition to rename the White Cliffs of Dover the Black Lives Matter Cliffs of Dover is just a mildly amusing joke.

 

[entropy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Grinner]

9/10. All your usual nuance but you miss out on the 10/10 because you delivered in under 18 paragraphs.

it's a fecking relief getting Noodlebrevity wisdom.

 

[neverdie]

It might have its origin in right wing movements, but it might also just be a joke. It doesn't devalue everything else that is happening either. Though I would disagree that this is the same as the statues in any way. Taking down symbols of repression is not going to solve racism, but it might help a little bit in the long run. That's a genuine strategy. Signing a petition to rename the White Cliffs of Dover the Black Lives Matter Cliffs of Dover is just a mildly amusing joke.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/20/elgan-varney-charges-dropped-hannah-stubbs-case

The creator of the petition is using this name. Chances of right wing agitation just went up 1000%.

 

[nimic]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/20/elgan-varney-charges-dropped-hannah-stubbs-case

The creator of the petition is using this name. Chances of right wing agitation just went up 1000%.

Math checks out, yeah.

 

[Wolverine]

I'm still seeing the "racism is a bigger pandemic than corona virus" thing going round a lot. I don't get this at all. The two have nothing to do with each other. It's like saying cancer is a worse killer than falling off a cliff...sure is, but you can't walk off a cliff and not fall down just because you're fighting cancer, just like you can't not get corona virus just because you're fighting racism, so what on earth are you on about?

Surely the aim of all this (presuming there actually is one) is to bring amount meaningful change, which would involve education, a change of people's mindsets, and giving young black people better opportunities in life? Things that require engagement and a level of agreement between everyone. Can anyone actually explain how throwing a statue in the sea or telling the police they're racist for doing things like trying to stop drug dealing actually helps achieve this rather than just create opposition?

Sure makes you feel better to do angry things to show you're angry, but it sure doesn't do much to help either.

While its easy to mock, the protests have led to a few things beyond statues in the States
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ved-george-floyd-death-police-funding-statues

And the Rhodes must fall and other anti-racist movements have said what they want to achieve beyond bringing down statues. Including some of the long term societal changes you've said.

Your caricature of the movement as doing angry things I don't know whether its for some edgelord comedic bullshit reasons or if its genuinely how you feel, but its wrong. Yes there will be fringe elements of any movement that will do things that are anathema to the movement and counterproductive but surely the big picture is what's important?

 

[Suv666]

I was waiting for Biden to something stupid. Actually a decent interview.

 

[horsechoker]

There is a petition online to get the White cliffs of Dover renamed the Black Lives Matter cliffs of Dover.

I really hope that this is a parody. The cliffs are white in colour. Nothing to do with race ffs

This is Aladeen news

 

[Suv666]

Have no idea why Democrats are against defunding the police. If Bernie was still in the race, I reckon he would have gotten a lot more votes. At the end of the day, under Biden I dont see any major changes happening.

 

[Drifter]

‘Bye-bye, Tucker’: Fox News host loses multiple corporate advertisers following rants against Black Lives Matter

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/by...s-following-rants-against-black-lives-matter/

 

[Pexbo]

‘Bye-bye, Tucker’: Fox News host loses multiple corporate advertisers following rants against Black Lives Matter

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/by...s-following-rants-against-black-lives-matter/

He won’t give a feck, OANN and Brietbart will pick him up and ply him with those roubles.

 

[adexkola]

Have no idea why Democrats are against defunding the police. If Bernie was still in the race, I reckon he would have gotten a lot more votes. At the end of the day, under Biden I dont see any major changes happening.

Some are but that's to be expected, you'll have those who buy into the law and order bullshit and are only voting blue because Biden isn't scary or a commie. To be fair to Biden, I'm not sure Bernie gets it either.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Accommodation, both private and student. There's not much else going on at the moment. There is absolutely no demand for office space and retail space. Both those sectors are in serious difficulties.

Indeed, not surprised! Also a difficult spot to open a retain business or restaurant given its location and one imagines there’s plenty of more modern office spaces available at the business park on Caton road.

 

[noodlehair]

While its easy to mock, the protests have led to a few things beyond statues in the States
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ved-george-floyd-death-police-funding-statues

And the Rhodes must fall and other anti-racist movements have said what they want to achieve beyond bringing down statues. Including some of the long term societal changes you've said.

Your caricature of the movement as doing angry things I don't know whether its for some edgelord comedic bullshit reasons or if its genuinely how you feel, but its wrong. Yes there will be fringe elements of any movement that will do things that are anathema to the movement and counterproductive but surely the big picture is what's important?

The big picture is news stories about people destroying statues and attacking police officers, and the fact we have a world wide pandemic going on.

This just harps back to what I was saying the other day about our social media generation of left wingers who are more concerned with being seen to be anti this or anti that, than they are with actually bringing about meaningful change.

It's really easy to go and stand in the street shouting, or destroy property, or go off on a rant here and there. It's much harder to come up with solutions and realistic ways to achieve them, and to actively engage society into subscribing to them. It is not impossible but it involves a very different attitude to what is being portrayed here atm.

It's the difference between saying the police are racist because they search black people more, and accepting that the police search black people more because of the perceived higher likelyhood of them carrying a weapon, and that the racism is actually hidden in the reason why that is the case.

As you say there may be a few people willing to engage in a more progressive way, but as long as the idiots are off the leash the headlines will be about idiots. Make it a black and white issue and that's always what it will be.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Are we all satisfied we've defeated racism now that we've helped spread corona virus around, unfairly smeared every police officer in the land and started a campaign to smash up some statues?

Next we should start punching anyone in the face who doesn't look anti racist enough.

As far as campaigns/protests go, this is among the stupidest I've witnessed I'm afraid...apart from ones that are for stupid causes in the first place.

I was wondering when you were going to show your face in this thread again. Thought you’d leave it a few days so you wouldn’t get called out? Never did see you post any sort of contrition. It’s funny how all these white males who two weeks ago were demanding a reopening of the economy are suddenly against people going out and protesting the implicit and systemic racism in this country.

I didn’t say it before but you’re definitely racist by wilful ignorance, you’ve had plenty of time to educate yourself and have clearly elected not to. Racist is as racist does, shame.

 

[Drifter]

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage loses UK radio show after statue row

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/br...-farage-loses-uk-radio-show-after-statue-row/

 

[Foxbatt]

I was wondering when you were going to show your face in this thread again. Thought you’d leave it a few days so you wouldn’t get called out? Never did see you post any sort of contrition. It’s funny how all these white males who two weeks ago were demanding a reopening of the economy are suddenly against people going out and protesting the implicit and systemic racism in this country.

I didn’t say it before but you’re definitely racist by wilful ignorance, you’ve had plenty of time to educate yourself and have clearly elected not to. Racist is as racist does, shame.

Spot on. I really can't understand how anyone who is against racisms can criticise this movement at this moment in time, pandemic or not.

 

[entropy]

@That'sHernandez you’ve gone and done it now. Get ready for the ban and BS rhetoric from Grinner explaining why he actually isn’t racist.

 

[That'sHernandez]

@That'sHernandez you’ve gone and done it now. Get ready for the ban and BS rhetoric from Grinner explaining why he actually isn’t racist.

I’d rather be banned and have a clear conscience than be able to post somewhere racists are defended because they are popular members of the forum. That’s sort of what this whole battle is about really, isn’t it?

 

[dove]

I was wondering when you were going to show your face in this thread again. Thought you’d leave it a few days so you wouldn’t get called out? Never did see you post any sort of contrition. It’s funny how all these white males who two weeks ago were demanding a reopening of the economy are suddenly against people going out and protesting the implicit and systemic racism in this country.

I didn’t say it before but you’re definitely racist by wilful ignorance, you’ve had plenty of time to educate yourself and have clearly elected not to. Racist is as racist does, shame.

You are definitely racist and lack the brain power to understand the difference between "reopening the economy" and forming massive groups of 10k+ people.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Something is better than nothing, i guess. If this were any other country we’d be halfway there with our military by now.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Do as I say, not as I do

 

[noodlehair]

I was wondering when you were going to show your face in this thread again. Thought you’d leave it a few days so you wouldn’t get called out? Never did see you post any sort of contrition. It’s funny how all these white males who two weeks ago were demanding a reopening of the economy are suddenly against people going out and protesting the implicit and systemic racism in this country.

I didn’t say it before but you’re definitely racist by wilful ignorance, you’ve had plenty of time to educate yourself and have clearly elected not to. Racist is as racist does, shame.

No I "left it alone" for a few days because I have been busy and have barely had time to look on here. I'm currently listening to a 4 hour lecture about how sound travels through walls so thought I'd log on here to avoid killing myself.

I haven't demanded a reopening of anything. I had a debate with Pogue about balancing lockdown measures with people's wellbeing and health...and I already addressed this after the previous time you called me racist, which you have chosen to ignore whilst calling me "willfully ignorant"

Do you go around accusing people with anti racist views of being racists a lot? How does that work for you? Do you think this is a good way to stop people being racist?

 

[That'sHernandez]

You are definitely racist and lack the brain power to understand the difference between "reopening the economy" and forming massive groups of 10k+ people.

I understand the difference. Non-racist people have a judgement call: do they protest the racism too, or do they say “I personally don’t feel comfortable protesting in the current climate but people have a right to protest.”

Most my friends elected the latter and didn’t criticise those of us who decided to protest.

 

[That'sHernandez]

No I "left it alone" for a few days because I have been busy and have barely had time to look on here. I'm currently listening to a 4 hour lecture about how sound travels through walls so thought I'd log on here to avoid killing myself.

I haven't demanded a reopening of anything. I had a debate with Pogue about balancing lockdown measures with people's wellbeing and health...and I already addressed this after the previous time you called me racist, which you have chosen to ignore whilst calling me "willfully ignorant"

Do you go around accusing people with anti racist views of being racists a lot? How does that work for you?

Didn’t accuse you the first time, your post was implicitly racist. The fact that you don’t see that evidences and confirms my initial suspicions.

All you had to do was say “Apologies, I can see that I phrased that insensitively” and move on but you see nothing wrong with it.

 

[noodlehair]

Spot on. I really can't understand how anyone who is against racisms can criticise this movement at this moment in time, pandemic or not.

Please explain to me why and how I am a racist.

Otherwise do feck off.

 

[noodlehair]

Didn’t accuse you the first time, your post was implicitly racist. The fact that you don’t see that evidences and confirms my initial suspicions.

All you had to do was say “Apologies, I can see that I phrased that insensitively” and move on but you see nothing wrong with it.

You did accuse me the first time and several people also pointed out to you that you had accused me of being racist.

Why would I apologise because you don't agree with my opinion? My opinion at the time was that I didn't want people to die of corona virus.

According to you this means I'm racist.

Explain yourself without sounding like a tit. Go on

 

[Sweet Square]

I was wondering when you were going to show your face in this thread again. Thought you’d leave it a few days so you wouldn’t get called out? Never did see you post any sort of contrition. It’s funny how all these white males who two weeks ago were demanding a reopening of the economy are suddenly against people going out and protesting the implicit and systemic racism in this country.

I didn’t say it before but you’re definitely racist by wilful ignorance, you’ve had plenty of time to educate yourself and have clearly elected not to. Racist is as racist does, shame.

Yeah it's been quite the character arc from old @noodlehair.

 

[entropy]

I’d rather be banned and have a clear conscience than be able to post somewhere racists are defended because they are popular members of the forum. That’s sort of what this whole battle is about really, isn’t it?

Absolutely. I was also hoping he’d read the room and spare us of a repeat performance. Nobody wants to hear that. Not in this thread, anyways.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It might have its origin in right wing movements, but it might also just be a joke. It doesn't devalue everything else that is happening either. Though I would disagree that this is the same as the statues in any way. Taking down symbols of repression is not going to solve racism, but it might help a little bit in the long run. That's a genuine strategy. Signing a petition to rename the White Cliffs of Dover the Black Lives Matter Cliffs of Dover is just a mildly amusing joke.

You say that but there is people like this Cathy about and Purdue university trying to stop the word man and renaming places such as Manchester and changing words like humans. Unless Cathy is made up and it’s all a lie.
I don’t know what to believe anymore, the world is full of wonderful people

 

[Zlatan 7]

Disagreeing Or having issues with a protest during a worldwide health pandemic where thousands have died and everyone else has been locked away for the previous months does not make one racist imo.

 

[That'sHernandez]

You did accuse me the first time and several people also pointed out to you that you had accused me of being racist.

Why would I apologise because you don't agree with my opinion? My opinion at the time was that I didn't want people to die of corona virus.

According to you this means I'm racist.

Explain yourself without sounding like a tit. Go on

I already have:

That’s not what you said though, is it? Here is what you said:



It’s totally missing the point of the protests; which is against implicit and systemic racism both in the states and in Britain and then sarcastically dismissing them as though they don’t matter or people are only going to them to be seen to have gone. If you don’t see that then you’re privileged enough to have never experienced racism and naive enough to think it’s not here. To deride the protest in such a way is racist, whether you intended it to be or not; perhaps be contrite and apologise for the way you put your argument?

Totally agree the protests can be considered irresponsible, but being someone who went on one I decided that actually in the scheme of things this matters more. It’s a decision we all have to make and one where you (and most of my friends) decided on the other side of the coin.

Edit: and perhaps it’s because I have an American connection through my wife, but this is the first time I have been to a protest. Both BLM protests on Wednesday and Saturday. I feel strongly enough about this that I want to be active.

And I have already told you how you could prove you're not racist but you continue to stubbornly refuse to admit you were wrong to phrase your argument in the (implicitly racist) way you did, which suggests to me that you do not think the way you phrased your argument was in any way racist and therefore you are either racist or choosing to remain ignorant, which in my opinion makes you racist as silence, or at least the unwillingness to educate ones self is complicity.

 

[neverdie]

You say that but there is people like this Cathy about and Purdue university trying to stop the word man and renaming places such as Manchester and changing words like humans. Unless Cathy is made up and it’s all a lie.
I don’t know what to believe anymore, the world is full of wonderful people

Classic example of right wing media baiting their own target demographic with an inconsequential news item which they know will rile them up. And it's this type of disingenuous rhetorical framing which will be used to turn the protests into an absurdity about statues and cliffs instead of social inequality and structural racism.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Disagreeing Or having issues with a protest during a worldwide health pandemic where thousands have died and everyone else has been locked away for the previous months does not make one racist imo.

You can disagree with the protest, fine. Perhaps if you don't use implicitly racist language while disagreeing with the protest you won't get called racist?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Classic example of right wing media baiting their own target demographic with an inconsequential news item which they know will rile them up.

I don’t disagree with that, it’s clearly a bullshit interview to rile , but still, Cathy must be a real person with those views and the university is also real, unless they’re not.
Was just pointing out that it wasn’t so so so obviously a joke as a poster mentioned a couple of times