@Leroy The Red , I applaud you for that last post.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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Yeah, its easy to put things out of context. Best example the London terrorists thing. I never suggested anyone should be nuked, i actually replied to someone suggesting exactly that and even said "that would be even more stupid", but yeah just ignore that to make a point.
And yeah, i would call a legit terrorist, who kills innocent people, a parasite. I am sorry if that is offending you. Also this post was from a time, (2015? 2016?) where this kind of attacks were really common in Europe (Paris, Berlin, London, etc.), mostly by ISIS terrorists which were living in Europe.
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And then they start getting bolshie 
Your English is definitely not as bad as you want to make out.
I don't think you are helping yourself.
You can start by not calling them that.
@OutlawGER do you genuinely think that there is a wide ranging issue that means people need to be convinced that white lives matter?
Or does it seem more likely that the people banging on about “all lives matter” or “white lives matter” are only doing so in an attempt to dismiss the BLM movement?
White people do not struggle with deep rooted systemic racism on a day to day basis. Nobody needs to have it pointed out to them that white people also matter.
Sadly the same cannot be said for black people and other minorities. Their lives have been historically undervalued and they have to handle racism in a variety of forms every day.
It’s been posted many times by now but this captures it well:
Anyone making the effort to fly a “white lives matter” banner at the moment is unequivocally a racist.
Or does it seem more likely that the people banging on about “all lives matter” or “white lives matter” are only doing so in an attempt to dismiss the BLM movement?
White people do not struggle with deep rooted systemic racism on a day to day basis. Nobody needs to have it pointed out to them that white people also matter.
Sadly the same cannot be said for black people and other minorities. Their lives have been historically undervalued and they have to handle racism in a variety of forms every day.
It’s been posted many times by now but this captures it well:
Anyone making the effort to fly a “white lives matter” banner at the moment is unequivocally a racist.
The kids in the background... brainwashed.
Never heard of it but the rally was held at a Dixie Outfitters. Their website is something else. They claim the war was over tariffs.
https://dixieoutfitters.com/
2013 article about https://www.salon.com/2013/09/11/dixie_outfitters_is_still_fighting_the_civil_war/
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I think you try to ‘PG’ some of the things you say in order to not appear obvious. Again looking through your posts this particular tactic comes in different forms.
@OutlawGER, I think you are being disingenuous here. I find it hard to believe that you really can't grasp what people are trying to say to you.
His English is better than some of the actual English people on this board.
I wish I hadn’t bothered writing that out on my phone now having seen the other posts. Dude’s clearly full of shit.
Rare these days to find a German who isn't fluent in English, except of course us older folk.
I've only heard of this assclown Tommy through this forum (US resident). I would have no clue who he is in a lineup. Others may fall into the same boat as me.It's Tommy Robinson, who is famous for being a racist feck-wit
But you know that, I just wanted to see what you came up with
Because they are white?
Exactly, and in context of the world we live in black people suffer with racism a hell of lot more than white people, and that is why we have the BLM movement.
Can you honestly say that white people suffer with racism and discrimination on a scale remotely near?
Im actually one of those who - in other circumstances - might come out with "all lives matter", and would mean it in good faith. But at the moment it is so patently obvious that the black lives are the ones being discriminated against that it is simply unconscionable to come out with anything other than support for the BLM movement. When the protests started I was up every night watching streams. I saw dozens of videos of sheer police brutality aimed at peaceful protesters. Obviously a single case of police brutality is too much, but this was clearly far more than that. Right now, in these circumstances, the only people bringing up "white/all lives matter" are - as other posters have said - trying to undermine the movement.
No, i personally don't think that. Even though i myself have been a victim of racism a lot of times in my live.
But to some extend i could understand if some other people in US for instance could have the feeling to defend themselves. (as i posted before for example because of revenge attacks and white stereotypes such as "they are all racist").
But my question has been answered anyways on this topic (that it was done by well-known racists). My only point was that i don't like that people in general get too fast accused of racism. And yes, i have expressed this feeling in other topics over the years too. That is just my opinion. Judge me if you want. But i believe, one of the main reasons for todays(!) existing racism, is that we talk so much about it, especially in cases where it is not exactly necessary (not talking about the flag or BLM now, just in general, for example if some football players are joking around among friends).
^This. All of this.
I think my grammer is fine, yes. But still i can't express myself as good as i would like or as i could in my mother tongue. And this is key in a sensitive topic like that.
That's why i wanted to stress that out.
I never said anything against the BLM-movement, never ever. I can understand it, and this picture of that girl posted by @Rado_N is really good. I like it.
Well, to your question: It depends. British people probably not. German people over the last 70-80 years? Hell yeah. Roma people (which i also consider mostly white)? Yes.
I can honestly say that because i am 50% german and 25% Roma (and other 25% turkish). I can't even count how many times i was called a Nazi when i was a child. And i didn't even know what a Nazi was back then. Even in this forum, making fun of germans as a Nazi was present in match day threads years ago. Wasn't that racism too? I remember very well, when i was new here, and we had the casual talk in a champions league match-day thread, an opposition fan just randomly said to me "f*** you, Nazi" and the whole thread was laughing. Isn't that racism? I reported the guy and i think he was suspended, but still many guys were laughing and no one complained about racism. But to be fair: I think the last time i have seen this over here is 7 years or so ago and is not happening anymore.
Just as i said in my last post, i simply can understand if some(!) white people feel the need to protect themselves right now during the BLM-movement, and that's why i would be cautious to brand someone instantly as a racist just because of that. That's basically all i wanted to say with my initial posting.
That's all well and good, but you chose the single worst example to make your point. A little bit of googling would have explained to you why saying "white lives matter" in the middle of an event supporting black lives latter is enough to brand someone instantly as a racist, on top of the (already known by the time you made your post) ties of the organizer to an infamous far-right character. Read the room.
If you're truly arguing in good faith, you'll be more careful in future.
If you're truly arguing in good faith, you'll be more careful in future.
Sadly, what made it racist is not that it was posted by a well known racist. Nor is the phrase 'all lives matter' inherently racist in any way, shape or form. But it has been weaponised as a way to take away from the very real arguments which need to happen about how ethnic minorities, but especially black people, have been treated in the West over the past few hundred years.
Rather than getting defensive, people should try to listen to what others say and change their views accordingly. Anyone who says they are not a racist (or at least holds some prejudiced views) is either a liar or delusional. I include myself in that as well.
We've made huge progress but progress should not stop just so we can pat ourselves on the back.
I think your last point is interesting for a very different reason which is quite difficult for me to articulate. Its something which my kids have mentioned and many of their friends have noticed as well since going to university. They go along with these 'jokes' with friends, when they grow up in areas where they are by some distance the minority. They don't know any better, they don't want to mark themselves out any more than they already are as different so they take it and 'laugh along'. They may hide their culture, feel ashamed of it. Perhaps nobody is going arounf the playground calling them nigger or chink or paki anymore (or certainly less so than before). But they are othered and, in this 'joking', their main priorities, often just subconsciosly, was to not rock the boat and bring more attention on themselves.
And wait, you think that German people over the last 70-80 years have experienced the same amount of racism, both overt and systemic, as black have? Really? (Not that being called a Nazi is acceptable and the poster who called you that should have been banned).
I haven't said the same amount. I can't say that, because i don't know. I personally have not experienced much racism against black people over here, while i have experienced a lot of racism against Roma and Germans. I think right now racism against muslims is the biggest topic in Germany, at least before the BLM movement. But this is very subjective and in other regions, for instance in the US, its probably completely different.
And yes i get your point. The question is when does racism start and when its just fun? What do you think about these kind of stereotypes: In Germany we say the Hollanders are cheese heads, the italians are pizza eaters, the french eat frogs, while we germans are called either the krauts or sausages.
Is that racism for you? Or just a bit of fun?
Germans aren't a race, they're a nationality. It's a different thing. You'll have white Germans, black Germans, Germans of Asian heritage - being German just denotes your citizenship.
Okay, i have to admit that i haven't read the thread carefully enough before i posted over here. Sometimes i am just a bit impulsive, i just read an article on Bild, checked the last page or last few messages of this thread and then started to create my posting. My impulsiveness is definitely something i need to work on.
This was your response to whether white people suffer discrimination and racism on a scale that is remotely comparable. Fair enough, that's not saying exactly the same. But I think it is not even slightly accurate to suggest its on a similar scale at all either.
Having a quick look at German demographics, it follows what I'd suspected, which is that Germany has a far smaller % of black people than the UK, France and of course the USA, do. And I agree that it isn't uniform across the world and I've even said on here that the racial issues in the USA should not be lifted word for word across the Atlantic because the issues are not the same. It makes more sense that in Germany, discrimination may be directed more towards Turks, Poles or Syrians as big demographic groups there.
Firstly, as Penna has rightly pointed out, German and Dutch are not races, they're nationalities. I've seen Middle Eastern/ East Asian Germans stereotyped in the same way as a white German would be (ie efficient, always on time, early to put their towels on the beach, this kind of nonsense). Also, perhaps if the Dutch didn't eat so much cheese, they wouldn't be called cheese heads? (Kidding)
Secondly, I don't think any of that is fun. I know for some it might genuinely be funny and, if they're adults, are confident in their own skin and genuinely find it funny, then fair play to them. This often isn't the case though, especially with kids. As I've said, I've been hearing from my kids (and their friends and other stuff they've showed me on social media) things they were subjected to at school as a 'joke', which they went along with just to be included. They are not things they would have accepted at university once they'd developed more confidence in their own culture and heritage.
I find it incredibly cringey when Brits talk about Krauts, Huns, the war or any of this nonsense and I'm the same when it comes to other countries. It is also again not exactly the same regardless because the Dutch, as much as they may hate the Germans for WW2 do not have the same historical relationship with the Germans as a african-american would have with a white person in the USA for instance.
So no, not quite racist, at least in part because I agree with you that we shouldn't always jump to say racism immediately. But funny? Not in the slightest.
This here.
This is another one. While in an ideal world the bolded above would be true, saying it and thinking it at this point in time isn't great. You end up ignoring the struggles of e.g. black people if you're so-called "colour-blind". Not everyone is the same, sadly, because some people have incredible barriers to overcome just because they have a different skin colour/religion/whatever. You shouldn't ignore this by saying everyone is one and the same.
I'm not disputing the general point of your posts, because I mostly agree. I just want to point out that certain white nations have also had huge suffering inflicted on them. I'd give an example with my country and the rest of the Balkan region - we were conquered and enslaved by the Ottoman empire for 500 years, our freedom was won after a war in 1878 and we finally had independence in 1908.
To this day, Turkey holds a lot of influence and power over us, we have a lot of economical and regional dependencies on them and we have to tread lightly when conducting our foreign policy, which might go against their plans somehow.
So the only thing I disagree is when people literally talk about white people as one, when the slavery of black people in the more modern human history was perpetuated by the Western empires. There are many white nations that have not been part of Western colonialism and it needs to be said.
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I think these bits are enough to get an idea where you're coming from, consciously or not. Looking at social reality in Germany & German history, it takes a massive amount of prejudice and selective perception to get to these statements.
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You can start by not calling them that.
Good for you, @OutlawGER. Nice to see people demonstrate they can learn and grow through all of this.
Of course branding someone as racist isn’t something you should take lightly, however after your various discussions about this subject I assume you now understand and agree that the plane/banner is racist?
Christ almighty, we’re back full circle.I don't know the background (if there is any) with this picture or what Burnley has to do with it, but why is this racism or a disgrace? Do white lifes not matter (as much as black lifes)?
I don't get what is wrong with that?
Are they sitting down?Here's the guy who organised it..
Is the intention starting to become clearer?
It's Tommy Robinson, who is famous for being a racist feck-wit
But you know that, I just wanted to see what you came up with
Because they are white?
Yeah I had no idea who it was either.
Yes, and i admitted that a few times already.
I am always thankful for an objective discussion, where people really try to understand each other (without only trying to defame someone, how some of the other posters over here, which i happily ignore from now), so thanks goes out to you and some others such as @africanspur, @Organic Potatoes, @nimic and @oates.
I am out for today. Have a good evening.
I’m going to stop heading down these rabbit holes cause it’s depressing, don’t know if this story has popped up in here but I’m at a loss; why are people being injected with KETAMINE!
https://www.coloradopolitics.com/ne...cle_805cd174-a9ba-11ea-a0d3-affe65fb6dbc.html
https://www.coloradopolitics.com/ne...cle_805cd174-a9ba-11ea-a0d3-affe65fb6dbc.html
It's a sedative/general anaesthetic. If you take a higher dose it can have other effects that make it a somewhat popular recreational drug for people who want that escape from reality.
Man you don’t even wanna know how popular their clothes are around here
White Lives matter. We’ve nailed that. Let’s focus on the lives of people that society has left behind.I don't know the background (if there is any) with this picture or what Burnley has to do with it, but why is this racism or a disgrace? Do white lifes not matter (as much as black lifes)?
I don't get what is wrong with that?
That’s it.
It’s not racism. It’s not a disgrace. It just misses the point.
Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean “Fcuk everyone else”.