It’s being reported as transverse myelitis, which sounds pretty serious. At a 1 in 15000(not 30000, half went to placebo arm) rate, no ones going to be queuing up to get the vaccine. For people above 60, that’s still better odds than the covid risk but in general we are not great at intuiting risk and it’s not very easy to triangulate your own probability.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Always assuming it is transverse myelitis and that if so it was caused by the vaccine and not by some other environmental factor such as another virus. The natural occurrence is just over 1 in 217,000 people and of course this could be the one. Plus some of those 1's could be other vaccines or viruses or diagnosed MS etc
Vaccines don't cause it
https://www.vaccinesafety.edu/vs-tm.htm
Vaccines do cause it but very very rarely
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19880568/#:~:text=Transverse myelitis is a rare,various environmental factors, including vaccination.
So wait and see I guess?
Shit, that does not sound good at all, but let's see until the investigation finishes and if it is vaccine related. Still better than ADE though.
New rules coming into force - will be law rather than guidance
(social gatherings above 6)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54081131
(social gatherings above 6)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54081131
Thoughts and prayers!
I think the rule was always that you could only meet with others from up to two households. In terms of the group size, I just assumed it was as many could fit on a table, as you haven’t been able to stand up and drink in any places I’ve been in. I’m sure it’s not enforced in a lot of places though.Sounds like more than 6 people can be in a pub, but not more than 6 people who know each other.
“simplified” says Bozzer
The people who listen to the guidance will continue to change their behaviour and adjust the way they live again. And the people that don’t care will just continue as before, completely disregarding any distancing or basic measures. The government knows that, and is hoping It will be enough to slow down the spread.
Fergus Walsh (@BBCFergusWalsh) Tweeted: This is the second ‘pause’ in the trial. The investigation should be complete in a few days.
I wonder why the media didn’t report on the first pause?
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I wonder why the media didn’t report on the first pause?
If only we had the police numbers to actually enforce it.
What happens if you live in a household of six? No visitors allowed at all? Is it me or do these new rules make no sense?
None of the UK rules make sense, it’s a utter clusterfeck of “bubbles”, “households”, laws, restrictions, suggestions, quarantines that make no sense and are always utterly inconsistent.
The Greek islands being added to quarantine list another typical example of this after they had refused to separate Tenerife etc from mainland Spain.
If I can get home now without quarantine, like feck we’re going, we won’t be able to meet my bro and his family, or my best mates and their families.
Utter utter nonsensical from one of the worst responses in the World. Ah well, at least I can put that longing for a trip home to rest.
Transverse myelitis is when the spinal cord becomes inflamed and blocks signals to the rest of the body. There is sometimes no known cause to this and actually has a lot of suspected reasons. Some have suggested a link between vaccinations and TM but there is as yet no established link. I think they will put it down as an anomaly and carry on with the trials. Of course if someone else develops it then the trials should and will be stopped.
A lot depends on whether or not the individual concerned got the vaccine. For all we know they might have been dosed with placebo. I’m not sure whether this merits unblinding or not, so they might not know. You can’t break the blind for every serious adverse event or you risk the overall integrity of the data for the trial.
This is the constant challenge with Boris and trying to work out the messaging, it doesn't help that the leak to the press the night before then gives about 12-24hrs for people to make their own interpretation on it and then they wheel out the various Secretaries of State to put their own spin on it & thus confusing more.
My take on what has been said is that a household of 6 is not permitted for visitors. Which is insane really, it should be household driven rather than an absolute number.
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Ah so that's why we're waiting until Monday then...
You could be right, plus the fact that they are expanding testing to individuals with auto immune diseases which could interact very poorly with an administered vaccine, be it the placebo or the relevant vaccine. However, I believe if it were to happen more than once it would be grounds to stop the trials as the odds of it happening more than once and not being related to the vaccine would be astronomical.
Same as Cheltenham back in March, Matt Hancock got £350k in donations from wealthy Horse Racing officials and is the MP for Newmarket. Make your own mind up on that one.
Indeed. They don't even attempt to hide the corruption any more.
Because the Gvt and media they found a successful and secure vaccine some months ago
And Dido Harding (head of the world beating Test, track and trace system and now of the new National institute for Health Protection) is (was?) on the board of the Jockey Club
Should we sacrifice everything for several months/years at any cost - despite being cautious - to follow inconsistent guidelines promoted by people never quarantined and travelling/meeting people as usual?None of the UK rules make sense, it’s a utter clusterfeck of “bubbles”, “households”, laws, restrictions, suggestions, quarantines that make no sense and are always utterly inconsistent.
The Greek islands being added to quarantine list another typical example of this after they had refused to separate Tenerife etc from mainland Spain.
If I can get home now without quarantine, like feck we’re going, we won’t be able to meet my bro and his family, or my best mates and their families.
Utter utter nonsensical from one of the worst responses in the World. Ah well, at least I can put that longing for a trip home to rest.
Guidelines deserve to be followed, bypassed or ignored depending the case.
Yep, she's a specialist at failing upwards.
Before Cheltenham: “We don’t know if it will have any sort of impact, that’s something we will have to review afterwards“
After Cheltenham: “Cheltenham had a clear and measurable effect on the spread of the virus, its only after the event that we have learnt this lesson”
Before St Ledger: “Because Horses, shut the feck up it’s only youth and the poor that can spread this virus“
After St Ledger: “There were reports of various illegal gatherings around Doncaster this weekend, mostly youths and working class, we really hope we do not see a spike following these incidents.“
Yeah, it’s fecking nuts. Makes no sense at all. The balls of Hancock to go on telly and call it simple. Ireland’s messaging has been a bit shit/confusing too but it’s crystal clear compared to the shambles over the pond. Our restrictions are based around how many people you are allowed in your home in addition to the members of the household (currently 6). I’ve no idea why the Uk regulations don’t have the same basis.
As far as viral spread is concerned all that matters is how many people are allowed to visit from outside the household. Yet you’re ending up with a situation where a person living alone can party it up with 5 people who all live in different households but a family with 2 parents and 4 children can’t have any visitors at all. Ridiculously unfair and illogical.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.n...um-institute-says-india-trials-094136604.html
Trials in India still ongoing for Oxford vaccine
Trials in India still ongoing for Oxford vaccine
That doesn’t sound good at all.
I hope everone is ready to COMPLETELY ignore these latest rules. It's an utter nonsense, zero foresight. We now live in a world where the idea of any death is unacceptable.. It's madness.
From a policing point of view I'd hazard a guess that it's probably easier to identify and enforce.
There's been a long gap with little communication from the government so at least this is another reminder.
Shame this didn't come in last weekend or I'd have called the police on my neighbours throwing a massive house party til 1am. Mainly because they kept my toddler up but I'd take the excuse to snitch
I think you'd find a better home commenting on the Daily Mail website. I don't think anyone should listen to a poster who relentlessly called this just a flu and predicted it would all be over by March.
You were wrong and you remain wrong.
Describing your own symptoms quite well there. Not read a sane post from you for some time.
I agree it's not a Flu but I do find it quite ironic most people who get all outraged about the comparisons to the Flu have spent months predicting second waves mainly on the basis of it happening 100 years ago with an, erm, Flu....
Is it though? If they restricted to, say, 2 or 3 visitors per household then all they need to do is establish who lives at the property and do a quick head count. Which they would have to do anyway, if they came across a gathering of 6+ people at a property which might or might not consist of people who already live there.
The Spanish Flu killed 50 million people so hardly relevant to the “just a flu” brigade who are clearly trying to imply that covid should be treated in the same way as the seasonal flu epidemics we get every year.
Yes just keep screaming into that screen and eventually you'll make people see the light. Or at least make yourself feel even more sure you're the cleverest person around.
I was speaking to a GMP officer about 3-4 weeks ago and he said that the policing in lockdown was simple, and black & white for them to police. Since then it's been difficult as there was so many different scenarios. I expect this law will give clearer parameters to the police.
There’s balance between making life easy for the police and trying to treat all UK citizens fairly, surely? As I said, there will still be plenty of scenarios where they will need to establish who lives at a given property. Does it seem reasonable to you that every household of 6+ is not allowed any visitors at all, while other households can have several visitors just to make the job of the police slightly easier?
Not to mention that it also reduces the effectiveness of these measures against the virus. A cap on visitors of, say, two per household (both from the same household) would be fairer and less risky than these measures which would allow a household of two people to have visitors from up to four different households all in their house at the same time.
It's an awkward balance because what's needed in law to fine problem groups isn't necessarily the same as what's suitable for general guidance.
I think they know most families will ignore or tailor the advice but this gives police the powers they need to enforce where appropriate.
No, I thought my position was clear on the 6+ household’s. I can understand the police side and logic of the debate for clearer laws, based on my discussion with them. I don’t think the law is reasonable though.
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I don’t agree with a lot of this but feck it, the last few pages have been one downer after another so this has to be worth a read, in the interest of balance.
Is there any evidence it’s seasonal? I thought the predictions of ‘second waves’ were due to opening up of lockdown measures as schools return. The reduction of spread in the summer months were due to the huge restrictions on movement and social contact that were put in place - not because of anything inherent in the virus itself.
fecking Nanny state.