SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

7 days self-cert generally, although you don't need a note at all for Covid.

That was the first thing they changed here in March, usual 7 days extended to 14 and all at 100% pay.
I’m wondering because it’s post summer now when people are going back to work and cases are rising, I’m thinking a possibility could be people going to work in some countries even with symptoms (or without waiting long enough after illness) because of poor sick pay.

 

[Penna]

Germany let the regions decide on things don’t they. That could be some of the reason them not being too centralised.

I think the comune system in Italy has helped, too. Local Mayors making local decisions. I'm signed up to the official WhatsApp group in our comune, and I'm getting stuff every day from the Mayor's office, most of which is just about our village.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That was the first thing they changed here in March, usual 7 days extended to 14 and all at 100% pay.
I’m wondering because it’s post summer now when people are going back to work and cases are rising, I’m thinking a possibility could be people going to work in some countries even with symptoms (or without waiting long enough after illness) because of poor sick pay.

I think its almost certainly true, in the UK at least. Many people can't afford two weeks off work. Its as simple as that.

 

[Pexbo]

Utter nonsense.

Deaths and hospitalisations are low because cases numbers are absolutely miles lower than the were in March/April and risk groups are no longer taken by surprise.

It’s a theory, nothing more.
There’s a current theory that there’s life on Mars & in the clouds of Venus.

You‘re very quick to dismiss others theories while presenting your own as fact.

 

[hmchan]

You‘re very quick to dismiss others theories while presenting your own as fact.

There're plenty of journals supporting the theory that masks can reduce the viral load one is exposed to, and this phenomenon has been well observed across different respiratory viruses over the years. On the other hand, it's also well studied that a smaller viral load makes people less sick when exposed to the same virus. While I agree that mask wearing is not the sole factor here, I can't understand why people dismiss this theory so quickly.

 

[Dante]

Pretty sure my kids have it. Some pretty severe symptoms and I've been in two minds to dial 999.

Can't get a test at all. Baffles me how they reduced testing sites knowing a second wave was going to hit

Definitely call 111 to get further advice. They'll tell you if you need to call 999. Best wishes, mate.

 

[cyberman]

Are we at the point where run of the mill posters are arguing against sciectific theories now? How do you even get a foothold with that stance?

 

[Dante]

Are we at the point where run of the mill posters are arguing against sciectific theories now? How do you even get a foothold with that stance?

Exactly. Trust the science. That's why I've delayed upgrading my phone. 4G is good enough for now.

 

[Stanley Road]

Another one of these articles, they seem to be popping up everywhere and are as silly as the articles in April & May calling Sweden a disaster and “cautionary tale”.

Tegnell himself has said it took “no lockdown” measures about a month longer than lockdown to get cases from those high levels to extremely low ones in comparison to UK, Belgium etc.
It might just be that Sweden’s rise will come a month after the others, but that said, they are confident the long term sustainable plan they have always been pushing will help keep numbers lower.

Once again, we won’t know until after the next months.

On a side note from what @Pogue Mahone was asking yesterday regarding Germany’s ability to keep cases stable, I was wondering, what are countries doing for sick pay around Europe?

How many days can you claim full pay on self certification?
Would be very interesting to know how the various countries have approached this?

@Penna @Stanley Road @redshaw

The US @Carolina Red, does it differ by state?

It's different in NL as we are all paying health insurance so we cant self cert as such. We call sick, the companies health and safety body are informed, they call you after a couple of days to ask whats wrong and have you seen a doctor, you agree on a return date.

This is a brilliant service because if your doc recommends you stay at hime go6 weeks, the service can tell your company not to bother you for that period, all fully paid.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You‘re very quick to dismiss others theories while presenting your own as fact.

The case load per day is lower though, that is an actual fact, no theory there.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are we at the point where run of the mill posters are arguing against sciectific theories now? How do you even get a foothold with that stance?

At Sweden’s highest “official” case point in June, the daily deaths were extremely low, nothing like the numbers in April and May, yet no mask wearing here so the theory doesn’t really hold much weight.
What is much more likely is that risk groups were more exposed in March-April and the actual case load was significantly higher than the case numbers in June.
Same for the majority of places I’d imagine. The higher the cases rise, sadly the more hospitalisations and deaths we’re likely to see, masks or no masks.
I hope I’m proven wrong of course and that a paper is submitted for peer review, but looking at hospitalisations and Deaths growing in Spain again, I think it’s more a hopeful theory than actual science.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's different in NL as we are all paying health insurance so we cant self cert as such. We call sick, the companies health and safety body are informed, they call you after a couple of days to ask whats wrong and have you seen a doctor, you agree on a return date.

This is a brilliant service because if your doc recommends you stay at hime go6 weeks, the service can tell your company not to bother you for that period, all fully paid.

But if you haven’t seen a doctor?
From what I’m aware most companies in Europe don’t bother people if they have a docs note for 6 weeks off.

 

[nimic]

It's different in NL as we are all paying health insurance so we cant self cert as such. We call sick, the companies health and safety body are informed, they call you after a couple of days to ask whats wrong and have you seen a doctor, you agree on a return date.

This is a brilliant service because if your doc recommends you stay at hime go6 weeks, the service can tell your company not to bother you for that period, all fully paid.

Can't you just cut out the middle-man and have the exact same thing?

 

[Pexbo]

The case load per day is lower though, that is an actual fact, no theory there.

So? That could be explained by @rcoobc’s theory.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Exactly. Trust the science. That's why I've delayed upgrading my phone. 4G is good enough for now.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So? That could be explained by @rcoobc’s theory.

How so?
Why are Spains hospitalisations and deaths on the rise again?

 

[fergieisold]

That's the theory doing the rounds based on this paper

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913

If people can prove transmission is happening in places where masks are worn (shops, public transport), then it could be an explanation but as far as I can tell transmission is very much clustered at the family level? I don't imagine people are wearing masks in their own homes.

I suspect most of it can be explained by lower infection levels vs March/April, a different younger demographic driving this early 'second wave' spread and better treatment of patients that do get seriously ill.

 

[Lynty]

Feck. Hope the little ones get better soon.

Definitely call 111 to get further advice. They'll tell you if you need to call 999. Best wishes, mate.

Thanks for the thoughts

I ended up calling 999 as things were getting worse and my 5 year old has been admitted to hospital. Only 1 parent allowed in though, so I'm stuck at home.

They only started school this week, and within days, both have been taken ill. Makes you wonder why schools are even open.

 

[hmchan]

Thanks for the thoughts

I ended up calling 999 as things were getting worse and my 5 year old has been admitted to hospital. Only 1 parent allowed in though, so I'm stuck at home.

They only started school this week, and within days, both have been taken ill. Makes you wonder why schools are even open.

Some still insist children cannot transmit the disease. How are you and your partner doing?

 

[Stanley Road]

But if you haven’t seen a doctor?
From what I’m aware most companies in Europe don’t bother people if they have a docs note for 6 weeks off.

If you habe not seen doc then the H&S will ask whats wrong and you agree a return date, usually a week for colds. If you tell them you have self diagnosed a brain tumour and have not seen a doc, then you will be paid a visit from a doctor if you cant get to one. 2 years ago i had flu symptoms and said i would be back the following Monday, i was advised to take more time off to build up my strength by taking short walks amd staying at home for 3 extra days than the planned return. Then they relay this to hr.

 

[Lynty]

Some still insist children cannot transmit the disease. How are you and your partner doing?

I tested positive in March so I assume I have antibodies.

My partner has started displaying symptoms whilst on the paediatric ward

 

[FireballXL5]

Hospital admissions on the rise. Patients on ventilators on the rise. I’ve been monitoring the Gov Uk website for the past month or so and at a glance I’d say the above have gone up 10%, though I could be wrong. It is very worrying though if we are using this as an indicator of where we are potentially heading again.

Also, I don’t know how reliable a source Dr Li Yeng-Man is or if it has already been discussed but she has come out again today and said she believes it is a man made virus. From what I’ve read (again, I have no scientific background), it seems like this is a false claim but her background checks out. I don’t know what her agenda is, any thoughts?

She's been suspended by Twitter...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-twitter-account-suspended-wuhan-b454268.html

 

[Adamsk7]

I tested positive in March so I assume I have antibodies.

My partner has started displaying symptoms whilst on the paediatric ward

So if you got it in March, were your family unaffected then?

Wishing them all a speedy recovery and hoping you don’t get any symptoms!

 

[golden_blunder]

Pretty sure my kids have it. Some pretty severe symptoms and I've been in two minds to dial 999.

Can't get a test at all. Baffles me how they reduced testing sites knowing a second wave was going to hit

How they get better soon.
Testing is an utter disgrace in the U.K.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thanks for the thoughts

I ended up calling 999 as things were getting worse and my 5 year old has been admitted to hospital. Only 1 parent allowed in though, so I'm stuck at home.

They only started school this week, and within days, both have been taken ill. Makes you wonder why schools are even open.

That’s terrible. Really sorry to hear that. Mind if I ask what symptoms your kids had that made you so worried?

 

[Lynty]

So if you got it in March, were your family unaffected then?

Wishing them all a speedy recovery and hoping you don’t get any symptoms!

Bizarrely, nobody else displayed symptoms in March. Though we were pretty strict on distancing in the house for that week.

I assumed they did have it but failed to show symptoms. Now I'm thinking perhaps not.

My partner has just called me and said the ward is awful, kids and newborns with breathing difficulties and they're having to juggle people across wards to make space. Nothing has been mentioned about a covid19 test.

I'll be honest and say that despite working in Primary Care, I have started to relax recently and hardly paid attention to covid news (our CCG wasnt expecting the start of a second wave until late October at the earliest), so this has come as quite a shock to me.

 

[Lynty]

That’s terrible. Really sorry to hear that. Mind if I ask what symptoms your kids had that made you so worried?

It started as a cough/runny nose yesterday morning, so I assumed a cold (though having both kids with a cold at the exact same time is a little suspect)

Through the night was really high temperatures and hallucinations

By this morning one of my children was struggling to breathe, and despite being awake, they couldn't open their eyes or move. Temp was 39.7c. I decided to call an ambulance at that point.

They arrived within 5mins, took some readings and pointed out a recession in their ribs and took them away.

My other child is fine, despite still having a temp and cough

I mean, they haven't been tested yet. It may be unrelated to covid

 

[Penna]

@Lynty, very sorry to read about this. I hope your partner and kids are OK. It must be very worrying for you.

 

[rcoobc]

It’s a theory, nothing more.
There’s a current theory that there’s life on Mars & in the clouds of Venus.

Indeed. There are some pretty obvious criticisms of it.

 

[rcoobc]

Jeez @Lynty best wishes to your kids and family.

Every time I've taken mine to casualty with breathing difficulties it's always horrible in there

 

[golden_blunder]

It started as a cough/runny nose yesterday morning, so I assumed a cold (though having both kids with a cold at the exact same time is a little suspect)

Through the night was really high temperatures and hallucinations

By this morning one of my children was struggling to breathe, and despite being awake, they couldn't open their eyes or move. Temp was 39.7c. I decided to call an ambulance at that point.

They arrived within 5mins, took some readings and pointed out a recession in their ribs and took them away.

My other child is fine, despite still having a temp and cough

I mean, they haven't been tested yet. It may be unrelated to covid

Jesus. That sounds horrendous. I’ll be thinking of you.

I’ve kept mine off last week and for this week too. They had one week in school and then same symptoms runny nose, cough, little temperature. Thankfully they seem fine now but it goes to show we all need to remain vigilant

 

[jymufc20]

It started as a cough/runny nose yesterday morning, so I assumed a cold (though having both kids with a cold at the exact same time is a little suspect)

Through the night was really high temperatures and hallucinations

By this morning one of my children was struggling to breathe, and despite being awake, they couldn't open their eyes or move. Temp was 39.7c. I decided to call an ambulance at that point.

They arrived within 5mins, took some readings and pointed out a recession in their ribs and took them away.

My other child is fine, despite still having a temp and cough

I mean, they haven't been tested yet. It may be unrelated to covid

I hope they are all alright mate, it sounds awful.

 

[jymufc20]

Jesus. That sounds horrendous. I’ll be thinking of you.

I’ve kept mine off last week and for this week too. They had one week in school and then same symptoms runny nose, cough, little temperature. Thankfully they seem fine now but it goes to show we all need to remain vigilant

My two eldest did 3 days in school then got the same symptoms, finally got a test last Saturday and got the all clear yesterday and thankfully are alright now.

 

[Mickeza]

Interesting bit of information in the weekly staff email today on vaccinations at the Health Board I work at. They’re telling staff to get the flu jab early because there likely needs to be a 4 week gap between taking the flu jab and then being able to take the COVID jab. Certainly talking like the expectation is a vaccine for front-line staff and shielding groups around November/December. Even said where they’re going to take place.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It started as a cough/runny nose yesterday morning, so I assumed a cold (though having both kids with a cold at the exact same time is a little suspect)

Through the night was really high temperatures and hallucinations

By this morning one of my children was struggling to breathe, and despite being awake, they couldn't open their eyes or move. Temp was 39.7c. I decided to call an ambulance at that point.

They arrived within 5mins, took some readings and pointed out a recession in their ribs and took them away.

My other child is fine, despite still having a temp and cough

I mean, they haven't been tested yet. It may be unrelated to covid

Jesus. Sounds terrifying for you. Kids can deteriorate so quickly. On the plus side, they bounce back incredibly quickly too. Glad you got him/her into hospital. Covid ir not, they’ll know exactly what needs to be done. Hope you get some positive news soon.

 

[acnumber9]

Wow, that’s pretty bad. And how many days on self certification? (No doctors note)

It’s 2 weeks on full pay here, paid by state, on self certification. We know work places are a huge point of spread so I think it’s important to know how countries are tackling this.

The Government here are too busy pretending you can’t catch it at work.

 

[golden_blunder]

My two eldest did 3 days in school then got the same symptoms, finally got a test last Saturday and got the all clear yesterday and thankfully are alright now.

It’s crazy how quick a common cold spreads in a school environment so imagine how quickly Covid would spread

 

[golden_blunder]

The Government here are too busy pretending you can’t catch it at work.

“Get back to the office.
Relaunch the economy.
Get BREXIT done.”

 

[The Cat]

Interesting bit of information in the weekly staff email today on vaccinations at the Health Board I work at. They’re telling staff to get the flu jab early because there likely needs to be a 4 week gap between taking the flu jab and then being able to take the COVID jab. Certainly talking like the expectation is a vaccine for front-line staff and shielding groups around November/December. Even said where they’re going to take place.

That sounds encouraging at least.

 

[BootsyCollins]

It started as a cough/runny nose yesterday morning, so I assumed a cold (though having both kids with a cold at the exact same time is a little suspect)

Through the night was really high temperatures and hallucinations

By this morning one of my children was struggling to breathe, and despite being awake, they couldn't open their eyes or move. Temp was 39.7c. I decided to call an ambulance at that point.

They arrived within 5mins, took some readings and pointed out a recession in their ribs and took them away.

My other child is fine, despite still having a temp and cough

I mean, they haven't been tested yet. It may be unrelated to covid

Hope everything turns out good.