While it’s fair this season, the narrative was the same last season and he was better than Rashford last campaign.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
He’s one of our best players in terms of ability - frustrating as the expectations based on what we know his potential to be is just so much higher than we ever see - and I don’t think we will ever see it. Seems to lack something mentally. I don’t think the level we’ve seen this season is any better than when he 1st arrived.
I think it’s being understated how much of a hindrance Martial’s wages would be to any potential transfer. He’s not a £250,000 a week player.
None of the biggest clubs are gonna take an expensive punt on a player with his inconsistencies and if you then look at the next rung of clubs his wages make the prospect non-existent.
If he went to someone like AC Milan or Dortmund he’d be easily their highest earner in addition to whatever the transfer fee was which would presumably rule them out.
Even at Inter he’d be on level terms with Lukaku (potentially more depending on which source you use) and roughly triple what Martinez is on. Seems a stretch as well.
I just don’t see a feasible option where Martial would get the wages he’s already getting here and where we’d actually get a good fee for him as well. Either he or we would have to compromise which pretty much kills the idea instantly.
None of the biggest clubs are gonna take an expensive punt on a player with his inconsistencies and if you then look at the next rung of clubs his wages make the prospect non-existent.
If he went to someone like AC Milan or Dortmund he’d be easily their highest earner in addition to whatever the transfer fee was which would presumably rule them out.
Even at Inter he’d be on level terms with Lukaku (potentially more depending on which source you use) and roughly triple what Martinez is on. Seems a stretch as well.
I just don’t see a feasible option where Martial would get the wages he’s already getting here and where we’d actually get a good fee for him as well. Either he or we would have to compromise which pretty much kills the idea instantly.
Something happened to Tony and I really don't know what it is to put my finger on it.
I remember at times when he was younger that his dribble was lethal. Every time he got the ball in front of goal in the left hand side - the opposition defenders were sh*t their pants because he was so good creating to himself and others.
Now he can't beat a cone and its not a matter of confidence, it's a lot more than that. The guy looks like he was robbed from his talent like its "Space Jam".
I remember at times when he was younger that his dribble was lethal. Every time he got the ball in front of goal in the left hand side - the opposition defenders were sh*t their pants because he was so good creating to himself and others.
Now he can't beat a cone and its not a matter of confidence, it's a lot more than that. The guy looks like he was robbed from his talent like its "Space Jam".
And Rashford this season has contributed infinitely more, that’s why your first comment makes no sense. Switching their nationality wouldn’t make Martial’s shit season better because he’s English
Don’t get me wrong Rashford has put in some stinkers but no where near the utter dross Martial has put out this year.
Difference is - even when Rashford is bad, he is one of those players who come up huge in big moments, not to add, he still gets great numbers. Martial when he's bad is really bad and unfortunately, he's far too often bad. I do feel for him more though, he was tremendous under LVG, maybe he needs that sort of system to thrive.
It's a point I've had to keep bringing up every time someone acts as if he can just be gotten rid of or exchanged in any deals. It's just not going to happen, he will not leave this club until his contract expires so make the best of it and try and get him playing close to how he was last season.
Doesn't seem to be a system issue, feels more like a mental thing at this point.
Yep.
Armchair viewers tend to overemphasise end product as the be all and end all. But when you're out on the pitch, being a constant threat is also a massive factor.
Defenders hate playing against Rashford - which is why his name frequently gets brought up during interviews when players are asked about their hardest oppenents.
With Rashford, he's a master of forcing his presence into games and putting defenders on the back foot with his directness and drive. I know if I were playing against him, he'd be a nightmare to keep track of, even if his passing/shooting were off on that day. The same goes for Cavani with his constant movement and confusing double runs.
When in form, Martial can be a fantastic dribbler and finisher. But playing the way he is right now, defenders know they'll have an easy game marking him. He's a wasted slection until he can find his groove again.
That's the difference in attitude he needs to bridge.
So all it takes is an article in the Sun to convince you of something... good to know.
Who do you feel has the lowest floor between Rashford & Martial? To me, it’s very close, but perhaps Martial’s valleys are a bit more elongated in time than Rashford’s.
Is The Athletic enough to convince you?
I think Martial. Rashford can be quite poor when he's out of form/knackered etc. (TBF, reports seem to suggest he has been dealing with injuries that he has been playing through for us for a while), but even when he is playing at that level, you still expect him to come up big when we need him. There has been countless times he has come up huge for us, even when not playing particularly well. Not to add his numbers given his form at times, is impressive.
With Martial, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't lost hope in him some time ago. I remember being ridiculed on here for suggesting the possibility that I could see Rashford becoming the better player. Personally, I don't think he'll ever be a CF, at least not for a team with our aspirations. His hold up play, his movement and his ability to finish instinctively are all aspects of his game that I feel are lacking to be a World class forward. I do think he could be a very good inside forward for us given the right coaching and system, but I don't see many managers ever preferring Martial over Rashford for the aforementioned reasons.
I've said in the past - I think Martial could be an excellent player if he stepped down a level in team and was the star player in a side that played a possession based system. I just think we need to do better if we ever want to be a dominant force in regards to a striker. Out of the three of him, Marcus and Mason, Martial is the one I'm least confident in locking down a position.
Don’t think I can disagree with anything in here. Martial’s valleys are just too elongated for me. As frustrating as Rashford can be, he does have consistent output in recent years & that shades it.
He's starting for France against Kazakhstan. Game kicks off in 15 minutes.
Just had an assist for Dembele.
He was great last season as well. He's just ridiculously inconsistent.
But Martial has better skills and higher ceiling.
Martial actually can do a lot of things: playing with back to goal, playing a centre forward and winger role. He also wins lots of freekicks and penalties. You have to think very carefully if you sell such a talented and versatile relatively young player.
he's been really shite in this game and now is injured, the quicker we find a replacement the better we will be
This really has been the worst year of his career, at a time when we were hoping to see him at his best. Unlucky with the injury again, obviously, but it doesn't help the chances of him turning his season around does it, or even just ending it in an alright manner.
Fair point, but if Martial refuses to or at least has no interest in applying these talents he’s of little use to the club. I certainly don’t want to watch a footballer who’s uninterested and barely puts in any kind of sustained effort.
Again
Good assist to be fair, Pogba also involved. But I've given up on him, anything he contributes this season is a bonus.
I can't see him turning things around, feels like a slow descent into irrelevance. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I have zero hope for him at the moment, and I was one of his biggest supporters in the past. He just can't follow up a good season with anything remotely close to good. Every time he seemed to have figured things out, he takes 3 steps backwards and United are on the hook for many years still paying him an outrageous wage.
If his work rate was even 10% of his talent he'd easily be a great player for us.
If.
If.
I don't think he's as talented as we all might have thought. I think we see his close control and the way the ball can be glued to his feet at times in his dribbling and see the natural talent, but he's missing so much more. Is football intelligence a talent? He's lacking in that. Being able to develop different types of finishing, is that a talent? He's short on that as well. How about finding pockets of space in the box, is that a talent too? Because he's not there either.
So yeah, I think he's talented, any professional is, but is he really that talented? It's hard to say yes at this point. I think a real talent would find a way to make it work, a real talent would have done more this season, I think he's an average talent with a rare skillset in his ball-carrying ability as a forward or winger, but even that is hard to see nowadays. He's barely taking on players, he's just not doing anything that once made him special.
Eh at this point even if it clicks elsewhere, as long is it isn't for a rival, does it matter if we replace him with someone who is more consistent and reliable? To me its an easy choice. We've been waiting for years for it to click for him, I don't believe it will here, and I can't see him ever being a starting striker for any top team.
Brilliant collect & turn.
What kind of injury this time?
What kind of injury this time?
I think the most talented players perform regardless of the quality of players they are up against. How many times can we say that Martial has put any decent team to the sword?
There's only really two times I can ever think of that Martial has destroyed a good team, and those are his debut for us against Liverpool, and against Germany for France. That, for me is the damning thing. He misses the big chances in those games - against PSG to go through in the Champions League this season, he had some REALLY good chances. In the 0-0 draws we've had this season, the big chances have tended to fall to him as our number 9. But he's simply not been clinical enough when it really matters.
Conversely, I can think of many occasions when Rashford has obliterated the absolute best in the world - in fact the better the team he's up against, the better he does. PSG, Manchester City, Liverpool, and at the International level, even Spain. I think that's the difference between a very good player and a world class one - the ability to step it up to another level when they need to. Martial doesn't seem to have that, and a part of that's his work rate, but also that mentality to take those chances when they come.
Rooney had it, Bruno has it, and Rashford I think in our team right now has it - that extra edge to their game when it counts. But Martial, I'm not so sure. He's so ridiculously good when he's at his game, maybe it's a mental block - and it could still come yet. But Martial, similarly to Lingard, is probably going to be stuck as an 'what if' forever if he doesn't find another level.
Just needs this season to end. He's not going to be going anywhere and due to options available/covid impact/team needs at RW, CDM, CB he might survive as a big role at ST along with Greenwood for next season. But it's definitely a case of this summer or the next where the striker position will need reinforcement, or Greenwood just stepping up as I don't think Martial will ever truly step up. Squad player sure but needs to improve his level loads from this season, which has been by far the worst in his career IMO.
Ben Arfa had real talent, unique talent but his career has been a big disappointment. You're confusing talent with something else. A player can have it without the mental element to turn that talent into real and consistent application
Excellent turn. Not many players can do that. Note to people talking about whether he has talent or not.
Off topic but what is Pogba wearing on his arm? He thinks he’s playing basketball?
Jarred his knee
I don’t think anyone genuinely questions Martial’s talent. They question his mentality which means he can’t apply his talent with any semblance of consistency.
The problem is Martial has "natural" talent - something you can not teach, or learn. Something only a few players have - i.e. superb close control when dribbling and an excellent first touch. These are attributes that only a few players have in world football. Ben Arfa was more skills, pace etc. So is Rashford.
With Martial, you don't need to have the mentality of Haaland to make it as long as you are a professional and don't indulge in off the field distractions and parties.
Worrisome, especially if it is off the ball, non-impact.
Read the posts on this page again.
He’s absolute class. Had a terrible season.
I don't have a doubt on my mind that he's not talented because he is.
What makes me mad is that he doesn't do it enough and in some cases he doesn't do even the basic stuff good enough - stop the ball close to his feet, make a simple pass, beat a man in a dribble.
The guy looks like something meaningful happened in his life that impacted him and now can't perform because of it and I'm not even referring it to a matter of confidence because I don't think it's because of it.
I did, the vast majority of them were saying pretty much the exact same thing.
Martial has every footballing tangible you could hope for in a forward; size, speed, strength, first touch, dribbling ability, two footedness etc.
He just seems to also lack the intangibles required to make use of those gifts. He’s 26 this year - the idea of a dramatic shift in his mentality seems unlikely.
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