Westminster Politics

[Buster15]

One of Boris pledges before the last election was that he had a ready made solution to the Adult Care issue.
And yet today, he tried to justify breaking the no tax rises pledges sighting the pandemic as the reason.
But as we know, the election was before the pandemic. So was his solution then based on an NI increase or was he lying yet again.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

In theory, I'm for it, we are constantly complaing in this country that so many services are underfunded, we can't then complain if there is a tax rise to fund things.

Of course, I have severe doubts the money will be spent correctly. But in theory, I have no issue paying more tax for a better health service, especially after the last few years.

The problem is they are taxing low earners. Meanwhile the top 5% have 90%+ of the cash.

 

[esmufc07]

Remember that time when Corbyn proposed an additional 5% tax for earnings over 80k and it was the worse thing ever to some here.

I'm sure effectively taxing every working person and disproportionately the poor 2.5% is absolutely fine though.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Remember that time when Corbyn proposed an additional 5% tax for earnings over 80k and it was the worse thing ever to some here.

I'm sure effectively taxing every working person and disproportionately the poor 2.5% is absolutely fine though.

If Labour had got into power and presided over the highest COVID death rate in Europe, wasted billions of tax payers money on a failing track track trace system and spent millions on PPE that never turned up, all spent with companies owned by party donors the media would be up in arms.

 

[villain]

Every day where the average Brit doesn't protest and riot in contempt of this Government, the media and the Royal Family lets me know that this country is unserious and nothing will change.

British people truly love suffering as long as someone they dislike is suffering just as much, or a little bit more than them.

 

[Compton22]

Watching this, I now understand why we have a Tory government

 

[villain]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You've just gotta laugh

If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.

 

[nimic]

It's like people who think they aren't racist just because they say the n-word and post about the IQ gap online. Because they know being racist is bad, and they're not bad, so they can't be racist.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

The problem is they are taxing low earners. Meanwhile the top 5% have 90%+ of the cash.

They are taxing everyone its a percentage of your earnings, the more you earn the more tax you "in theory" pay.

 

[Balljy]

Ignoring the argument about the fact that it's a tax that will disproportionally affect the poorer, I don't get why they feel the need to make it a different tax from 2023 and move NI back down to the original level. It makes it more difficult for businesses, loads of software will need to change to take it into account and it's just more confusing than adding to NI.

It's not like it is a way of hiding future tax increases as it's identical to NI in that the employer pays some and we pay some. I don't get it.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

They are taxing everyone its a percentage of your earnings, the more you earn the more tax you "in theory" pay.

You think the top 5% are getting their money through PAYE?

Bless.

 

[villain]

They are taxing everyone its a percentage of your earnings, the more you earn the more tax you "in theory" pay.

It's still a workers tax at a time when billionaires have increased their wealth and pay relatively no tax, while wages have been stagnant for 15 years or so.
A wealth tax would generate at least 3x as much money than this proposal with marginal tax increases.

 

[Sweet Square]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[FireballXL5]

 

[mitChley]

They are taxing everyone its a percentage of your earnings, the more you earn the more tax you "in theory" pay.

National Insurance is effectively capped at £50k. There was plenty of scope to make changes around that rather than a change that hits the lowest earners the most.

 

[jojojo]

It's massively unfair but then so is the entire structure of NI. An actual income tax - that covers income, interest, dividends and capital gains would be a start. Getting rid of nonsense like higher rate tax allowances on pension contributions would help. They could take another crack at inheritance tax as well, given this is likely to leave more money to tax there.

If NI contributions are the only way that we can get tax money off Amazon etc, then find new ways to tax them. Don't wrap up a tax increase for the lower paid and average earners as if it's anything other than another slice of wealth distribution upwards.

 

[Sweet Square]

'

I love this clip so much.

 

[Buster15]

If Labour had got into power and presided over the highest COVID death rate in Europe, wasted billions of tax payers money on a failing track track trace system and spent millions on PPE that never turned up, all spent with companies owned by party donors the media would be up in arms.

And that is what is so frustrating. But, as history tells us, the electorate in England favour the Tories and not Labour. But there is no obvious logic as to why.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

There's so many better ways to fund this - aside from the obvious "stop throwing money at fecking vanity projects in the South" argument. Raise inheritance tax, for starters. Stop letting bald feckers hoard billions just so they can saunter about saying "I'm the richest man in the world!".

The problem with all of the other options is that they're easy to hide from, whereas fecking over the average worker is easier.

The bare faced cheek of Boris saying this is needed for the NHS because of Covid. It's him and his party that have brought the NHS to it's fecking knees. And it'll apparently be shown on your tax bill as a "health and social care" tax, when we all know that not all of the money gained from is going to go near the NHS.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Ignoring the argument about the fact that it's a tax that will disproportionally affect the poorer, I don't get why they feel the need to make it a different tax from 2023 and move NI back down to the original level. It makes it more difficult for businesses, loads of software will need to change to take it into account and it's just more confusing than adding to NI.

It's not like it is a way of hiding future tax increases as it's identical to NI in that the employer pays some and we pay some. I don't get it.

They need to make it a different tax because people over the pension age do not pay NI whereas the plan is that - from 2023 when HMRC’s systems are updated - pensioners will have to pay this 1.25% tax on any employment income.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

National Insurance is effectively capped at £50k. There was plenty of scope to make changes around that rather than a change that hits the lowest earners the most.

Employers National Insurance is paid at 13.8% regardless of salary (there are some exceptions for small businesses). This will go up by 1.25%.

Employee National Insurance is 12% on income above the earnings threshold, up to the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

Higher rate taxpayers pay 2% NI on income above the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

The upshot is that the wages of all employees (above the NI threshold) will attract an additional 2.5% in tax. The change is in effect neither progressive or regressive, but just pushing all tax bands up together.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You've just gotta laugh

If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.

Are you really surprised? The narrative for a good year and a half has been support/applaud/finance/back the nhs. People aren’t going to turn around now and oppose something that’s being presented as benefiting the nhs.

 

[villain]

Are you really surprised? The narrative for a good year and a half has been support/applaud/finance/back the nhs. People aren’t going to turn around now and oppose something that’s being presented as benefiting the nhs.

Nope, i've been actively saying this country is full of idiots.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

You've just gotta laugh

If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.

If I was a chicken I’d vote for Christmas, just to feck over all the turkeys.

 

[villain]

If I was a chicken I’d vote for Christmas, just to feck over all the turkeys.

Ah thats probably a cultural oversight on my part, my family only eat chicken & duck on christmas, I haven't eaten turkey since I was about 10
You knew what I meant though!

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

You've just gotta laugh

If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.

It's the same trick as "£350m for the NHS". No difference.

 

[nimic]

You're both crazy, turkeys are for New Year's Day. Christmas you eat either lamb ribs or pork, everyone knows that.

 

[Drainy]

He sees anyone whose actually impacted by his tax increase as essentially not worth keeping a promise to.

 

[villain]

You're both crazy, turkeys are for New Year's Day. Christmas you eat either lamb ribs or pork, everyone knows that.

Leftovers, hangovers & regret are for new years day.

It's the same trick as "£350m for the NHS". No difference.

They'll keep getting away with it until the public wise up, which they wont.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

And that is what is so frustrating. But, as history tells us, the electorate in England favour the Tories and not Labour. But there is no obvious logic as to why.

Media coverage does have a big influence.

 

[mitChley]

Employers National Insurance is paid at 13.8% regardless of salary (there are some exceptions for small businesses). This will go up by 1.25%.

Employee National Insurance is 12% on income above the earnings threshold, up to the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

Higher rate taxpayers pay 2% NI on income above the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

The upshot is that the wages of all employees (above the NI threshold) will attract an additional 2.5% in tax. The change is in effect neither progressive or regressive, but just pushing all tax bands up together.

Is any tax actually regressive in policy? Genuine question, it's been many years since my A Level economics.

If a tax is by nature not progressive then by nature it hurts low earners with less disposable income most.

Edit: just refreshed myself on regressive tax, surely this is an example of one?

Further edit: everything I'm seeing on Google seems to agree it is regressive?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Are you really surprised? The narrative for a good year and a half has been support/applaud/finance/back the nhs. People aren’t going to turn around now and oppose something that’s being presented as benefiting the nhs.

Yep, and if they do have a problem with it and grow to loathe the NHS for being propped up by their taxes it'll make it easier to sway the public into agreeing that privatisation is the only solution.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Is any tax actually regressive in policy? Genuine question, it's been many years since my A Level economics.

If a tax is by nature not progressive then by nature it hurts low earners with less disposable income most.

Edit: just refreshed myself on regressive tax, surely this is an example of one?

Council tax is regressive.

 

[Jippy]

Employers National Insurance is paid at 13.8% regardless of salary (there are some exceptions for small businesses). This will go up by 1.25%.

Employee National Insurance is 12% on income above the earnings threshold, up to the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

Higher rate taxpayers pay 2% NI on income above the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.

The upshot is that the wages of all employees (above the NI threshold) will attract an additional 2.5% in tax. The change is in effect neither progressive or regressive, but just pushing all tax bands up together.

It is regressive given higher earners only pay 2% over £50k. They pay way less of their total pay as a % of earnings.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

It is regressive given higher earners only pay 2% over £50k. They pay way less of their total pay as a % of earnings.

I was referring to the 2.5% change being neither progressive or regressive.

National insurance in isolation is regressive. It makes more sense to consider it alongside income tax though.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

In theory, I'm for it, we are constantly complaing in this country that so many services are underfunded, we can't then complain if there is a tax rise to fund things.

Of course, I have severe doubts the money will be spent correctly. But in theory, I have no issue paying more tax for a better health service, especially after the last few years.

Then you don’t understand the proposal at all. It’s baseless, cruel, won’t work, and once again rewards the wealthy. It moves us further into worse terrain.

Uneducated folks in This country think that when ‘the rich get richer’ it includes them because they own property. They also think that because they own a house everyone can. My partner and I make ghastly sums that my parents could never dream of. We can’t afford to own something loveable. It’s horrific. I’m doing great. But why the Fcuk does anyone vote Tory? They’re disgusting ghouls on a personal enrichment program.

 

[Jippy]

I was referring to the 2.5% change being neither progressive or regressive.

National insurance in isolation is regressive. It makes more sense to consider it alongside income tax though.

Fair enough. The cynical mindset behind this decision is a new level. I keep thinking that something has to give when the government keeps layering more and more shit on this country, but I'm not sure what, then realise they'll go up in the polls tomorrow regardless.

 

[Pexbo]

Fair enough. The cynical mindset behind this decision is a new level. I keep thinking that something has to give when the government keeps layering more and more shit on this country, but I'm not sure what, then realise they'll go up in the polls tomorrow regardless.

It’s like they’ve got the country in the political equivalent of a Chinese finger trap. The public that voted them in have argued themselves into a corner justifying their actions so many times that the more of this corrupt bullshit they pull, instead of turning on them and admitting their wrong, it only serves to force them to argue their case once again - entrenching them deeper into the Tory quagmire.

 

[Jippy]

It’s like they’ve got the country in the political equivalent of a Chinese finger trap. The public that voted them in have argued themselves into a corner justifying their actions so many times that the more of this corrupt bullshit they pull, instead of turning on them and admitting their wrong, it only serves to force them to argue their case once again - entrenching them deeper into the Tory quagmire.

That sums up the Telegraph comment section I was just reading perfectly. They were variously arguing it was to pay for saving jobs through furlough, the NHS needed more on top of the £350m Brexit money a week (I'm certain plenty weren't joking) and using a hospital in Ireland costs you loads cos of the EU.
Contortionist level mental gymnastics.

The Tel column was slagging off the useless backbenchers for threatening to rebel then chickening out.

 

[Buster15]

Media coverage does have a big influence.

It does which is the real frustration.
But as I have mentioned, if enough people stopped consuming the media, that would have an effect. But we don't so it won't.