Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

They had to rebuild their entire XI basically and Saka, Smith-Rowe, the 2 CB signings and Tomiyasu, Tavares and Ramsdale are all playing well, which is the most important thing. Sambi Lokonga and Maitland-Niles are doing okay. They're probably not going to get top 4 this year, but only Odegaard and Tierney are struggling at the moment among the players young enough to matter for their rebuild. So yeah, I can't imagine he'll be in trouble unless they really really struggle.

That said, they've only scored 13 goals in 11 games so I don't think they're gonna get up to much this year and will probably finish like 6th or 7th.

You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.
 
You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

Guendouzi is a clown who goes wherever he wants on the pitch and doesn’t have the talent to justify it, no manager with a disciplined tactical vision would want him in the side. Tuchel would have binned him off within minutes. Saliba is super talented but still very raw. He could not have done what White is currently doing. Arguably we should have kept him for better depth but a loan is also what he probably needed as a player.

Arteta has made mistakes but these aren’t among them.
 
Guendouzi is a clown who goes wherever he wants on the pitch and doesn’t have the talent to justify it, no manager with a disciplined tactical vision would want him in the side. Tuchel would have binned him off within minutes. Saliba is super talented but still very raw. He could not have done what White is currently doing. Arguably we should have kept him for better depth but a loan is also what he probably needed as a player.

Arteta has made mistakes but these aren’t among them.
And Xhaka is a clown who constantly gets himself sent off. Arteta made him captain. Guendozi needed proper coaching and guidance, not being given up and replaced by inferior players.
 
Because there’s a clear disparity in the quality of the two squads, despite the fact that you’ve spunk away as much money as us over the last few years.

I'd also suggest that it's not the 2nd place finish he gets criticised for, it's the cup exits, the European results and the poor start to this season.
 
Because we do realise he is not. Ole in fact is the most abused manager so he will never have that privilege that Arteta will get from the media.

Ole is the most abused by some quarters while at the same time being the most protected by others quarters.
 
Ole is the most abused by some quarters while at the same time being the most protected by others quarters.
Yes. He has his friends in Scholes, Neville, Rio who will back him but even them will not call him a top manager. And then there is other side of media who never gave him any sort of credit even when United finished 3rd and 2nd. And now with the poor form he is back to being a cheer leader and the worst manager to manage a team.
 
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Yes. He has his friends in Scholes, Neville, Rio who will back him but even them will not call him a top manager. And then there is other side of media who never gave him any sort of credit even when United finished 3rd and 2nd. And now with the poor form he is back to being a Ole Ole Ole I love you and the worst manager to manage a team.

The other problem is your size, your expectations, your revenue, your squad, your demands, are all at a different level to Arsenal's. So the 2 managers won't get judged the same.

Most weren't critical of Ole for coming 2nd, as that was progress. The main criticism has now come because there has been a regression despite further investment in the squad.
 
Noted, but the out-of-this-world Klopp started in October and finished 8th and won nothing else, whilst rookie Arteta started end of December and won the FA Cup less than 5 months later.
You're trolling, aren't you? Can't take you seriously, sorry.
 
You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.
Maybe. But imo Ramsdale is definitely a better keeper than Martinez. Arteta had a problem with Guendouzi after the BHA match and the rift was never healed so he had to let go. As for Saliba the jury is still out so we can't say yet if he was right to dump him., though I tend to agree that he shd at least first give him a chance in the team. Nevertheless, Ben White has struck a brilliant partnership with Gabriel and the results show.
 
Klopp compared to Arteta:lol:
Yes Arteta was miles better as a player and definitely looks far better than the ugly sack of teeth that is Klopp, but as a manager and tactician, he is not even in the next two levels.
Nobody said Arteta is at Klopp's level managerially, but the fact remans that in their first PL seasons they both finished 8th and Arteta won a trophy whilst Klopp won nothing.
 
Is it reactionary if that very poster has defended Arteta over the last two years and made arguments about how poor the squad was etc. He was arguing the case long before the recent good run.
That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs
 
That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs

The squad he inherited was sitting in 11th place with a negative goal difference and only 5 wins after 18 PL games. So yes, it was a poor squad.
 
That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs

I've spoken about Emery's tenure a few times in this thread. He did very well to get 5th, which isn't that much of a surprise because he's a good manager. But that side went into utter freefall and is not a fair reflection of the squad.

That Arsenal side was poor, and the xg reflects this. This side constantly outperformed their expected performance. They finished with around 70 points, and I think 59 was what their expected total was. It's only one metric of many, but it really does reflect what was in front of our eyes. For shots per game they were 10th, and for shots faced they were 10th. These stats in a vacuum don't mean anything, but when watching that side you knew that this was a side that needed massive work. Aubameyang was in his pomp and his goals masked over what was a very ordinary side. A backline of Leno, Mustafi, Sokratis, Monreal (actually a decent little player but in his mid 30s at this point) and Bellerin was never going to last long under scrutiny. Which brings me to the other part.

Stats never tell a full story, but with the benefit of hindsight we can gather something from the results, with the decline starting towards the end of the 18-19 season. But here's the run of form preceding Arteta taking over

LWLLLDWWWLDDWDWLDDLDDDWL

The form was staggeringly bad, and I truly think the limitations of the squad had caught up. People can and will have different opinions on the job Arteta is doing, but the one thing I can promise you is that whoever came in was going to have to overhaul that squad if they wanted to get anywhere.
 
The squad he inherited was sitting in 11th place with a negative goal difference and only 5 wins after 18 PL games. So yes, it was a poor squad.
This is how the table looked when Unai got sacked

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This is how the table looked when Unai got sacked

MsLaclC.png

This how it looked when Arteta took over, the football we were playing under Unai with that team in 2019/2020 was diabolical.

EgR8I6U.png
 
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Yeah and those results are on Freddie. Just like the past 2 seasons results are on Arteta.
They've barely been creating chances under him. I very much doubt that's on the players.

When you say past two seasons, doesn't it seem kind of weird to use him taking over at the end of December as a season? I notice a lot of posts mentioning he finished 8th twice and it doesn't really tell the full story.

And yeah, they will need to create more if they want to sustain their form, especially over a full season.
 
When you say past two seasons, doesn't it seem kind of weird to use him taking over at the end of December as a season? I notice a lot of posts mentioning he finished 8th twice and it doesn't really tell the full story.

And yeah, they will need to create more if they want to sustain their form, especially over a full season.
If you want to bash Arteta it's convenient to bring up that he finished 8th twice - context be damned.

I can't speak for all Gooners, but I'm net positive on him. I really want us to stop trying to sit on leads. We've gotten away with it recently, but we're not set up to do that long-term. We'll shift the last of the deadwood this Summer as we've got quite a few contracts expiring. Some positions have two good options (GK / LB), but others have a real drop in quality when the first choice are unavailable.

Top 4 might be possible this year as United / Spurs / Leicester all seem to be struggling with both results and performances. Hopefully we can nick a spot and attract quality players in the window. With such a young squad, even just two experienced additions could make a huge difference. My choice would be CM and CF.
 
I think people think ole is worse than he is and that arteta is better than he is, constantly looking for results (or anything at all, an expression on their face for example) to validate their view.
Man Utd and Arsenal have different expectation for the season and completely different resource available to the clubs. It doesn't matter which manager is better, it only matters if the manager is right for the club. Ole's team is performing below expectation this season so the fans and pundits are not happy. On the other hand Arteta is still challenging for a top 6 finish so Arteta is spared, for now. I doubt anyone will say Ole or Arteta are world class managers and at the same level with Pep and Klopp. Arteta is only 39 and a rookie manager.
 
You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

Saliba will be back and he's doing well on loan, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

Guendouzi it sounds like his attitude was bad and he's immature but he's definitely got talent so I'd probably dock Arteta there for not finding a way to reach him.

Choosing Leno over Emi Martinez looks like an error, and Ramsdale coming in just gets it back to neutral at best.

I'm not assuming Arteta has chosen this player, I'm saying that if most of your young core players are developing that's what's important when you've got a club that hasn't cracked the top 4 in 5 seasons. Same as if the core young guys here were playing really well at the moment it would certainly help the case for Ole getting the rest of the season, but they're floundering like everyone else.
 
It's silly season, and if Arsenal beats LFC this Sunday, they go above them. So much about their early struggles, he has done the work well.

And this is probably the best Arsenal team going to Anfield in recent years. It shouldn't be their annual trashing at that stadium, expect competitive game this time. Klopp on the other hand, deserves greater scrutiny....
 
Martinez plays with Argentine. So he travels far away and you see the problem. With the same level of performances, a club will always prefer a European international player than a player who goes overseas.
 
Saliba will be back and he's doing well on loan, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

Guendouzi it sounds like his attitude was bad and he's immature but he's definitely got talent so I'd probably dock Arteta there for not finding a way to reach him.

Choosing Leno over Emi Martinez looks like an error, and Ramsdale coming in just gets it back to neutral at best.

I'm not assuming Arteta has chosen this player, I'm saying that if most of your young core players are developing that's what's important when you've got a club that hasn't cracked the top 4 in 5 seasons. Same as if the core young guys here were playing really well at the moment it would certainly help the case for Ole getting the rest of the season, but they're floundering like everyone else.

The Emi Martinez situation was unfortunate but people commonly misrepresent the facts of what happened. Emi gave the club an ultimatum - make me the unquestioned #1 (ie, he didn't want to compete with Leno for the job) or sell me. This was after about two months of sterling performances but also from a guy who had been a backup keeper his whole career and was known to be prone to errors. And Leno had been Arsenal's player of the season the year beforehand and actually was pretty good that season before getting hurt as well. Leno also was still hurt that summer and so selling him wasn't an option.

It wasn't a simple matter of choosing Leno over Martinez, it was more like:

(1) Make Martinez the unquestioned #1, leaving a very pissed off and fairly popular Leno to stew on the bunch while setting the precedent that certain players could just demand to have starting places without needing to compete, and probably not have the funds to buy Thomas Partey.

(2) Sell Martinez and have the funds to buy Partey.
 
This Arsenal performance is embarrassing. Further proof, not that we needed it. Move on, Arsenal. Hire someone better.
 
Arsenal are 12th in xPTS. For reference Sunday league level United are 11th.

Their current position flatters them, hopefully Ramsdale's good form doesn't last much longer and we see them slide down the table.
 
This Arsenal performance is embarrassing. Further proof, not that we needed it. Move on, Arsenal. Hire someone better.
They won't because the media and most Arsenal supporters seem to think he's very good. By the time that myth proves just that, another 2-3 seasons will have passed.
 
I didn't like him at all, but he gets many points today for opposing Klopp.
 
I didn't like him at all, but he gets many points today for opposing Klopp.
Completely brain dead thing to do, after 30 minutes of having somewhat successfully tried to destroy the game, time wasting and playing it slow, he got the home crowd riled up and Liverpool shifting gear into full throttle. The guy is an amateur.
 
Completely brain dead thing to do after 20 minutes of having tried to destroy the game time wasting and playing it slow, got the home crowd riled up and Liverpool shifting gear into full throttle. The guy is an amateur.

What :lol:

You do understand Klopp did the same thing? It's just that Arteta was on right side of argument considering the foul from Mane was clear as a day.