Yeah I agree. And I think for that reason I'm convinced by him being a nailed out starter for the next 5-7 years and someone we should build the team around.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 13
- Yellow cards
- 10
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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When was his last decent performance? It's as if he didn't even wanted to be there tonight, just disappointing.
You agree with OP or do you mean not* convinced by him? The reply is a bit confusing.
I wrote it as he was speaking and I was emotional ok
Needs to be dropped unless he actually works on not losing the ball every fecking chance he gets.
What a tragedy this club has turned into that one of our best signings turns to be a liability in no time.
What a tragedy this club has turned into that one of our best signings turns to be a liability in no time.
Settle down, people go over the top with the praises but he isn't a bum either. Unless he changes his game and makes himself part of a unit, I feel that he will remain a very good player for a Europa League team and a squad player for a perennial CL team.
Even when he churned out goals and assists there was something about him that didn’t quite convince me.
The guy is just not someone who can take United to the next level. He just isn’t good enough.
The guy is just not someone who can take United to the next level. He just isn’t good enough.
I'm praying that we didn't make a mistake by extending so soon.
We should have waited for hag to come in and assess whether he fits his plans or not.
We should have waited for hag to come in and assess whether he fits his plans or not.
Very confusing and makes no sense. That description of Fernandes is bang on. I am not sure why we gave him such a fat contract. He's shone to an extent amongst the utter mediocrity that is United, but he's definitely a luxury player. Loses the ball far too often and has gone off the boil completely where scoring is concerned this year.
This is my take. As a footballer, he is average (at best) in most on-ball phases/attributes to me, but then scores ridiculously highly in a couple of key ones too. Like, he is not a good passer. But he does have a good final pass. Actually, a great one. He has vision and can see a final pass more often than not. He is also a decent finisher. The issue is the difference between those areas and the rest of his use of the ball is stark.
He’s a number 10 that requires a lot of space. Where space is limited, he’ll try and offload the ball with his first touch, playing a killer pass, which is why he turns it over so much. To me, I think it’s because he knows he doesn’t have the ability to take the ball in around opponents who are pressing. He can’t keep the ball moving in those circumstances. He has no strength, can’t really turn anyone, can’t dribble anyone. So the idea is a one touch swing before engagement is needed, and if engagement comes, he’ll typically just fall over.
I’d like to also speak about this ‘revisionism’ that I’ve seen a few people mentioning. I’ve said a lot of times that modern football, in my opinion, is largely dictated by narrative, and people rarely pay actual attention to the details. I remember when Scott McTominay was coming into the team and drawing lavish praise and comparisons to midfield greats. During that hype, I was there expressing concern that he cannot pass the ball. Of course, at the time, people did not want to hear that. I remember saying that when this new academy player novelty wears off, people will start having a problem with his poor passing, because despite the warm feeling of the time - we don’t actually like midfielders who cannot pass. Later on, I started seeing things about how McTominay had ‘regressed’ and how he needs to ‘get back to his old form’. It’s wasn’t true. He wasn’t a good passer of the ball during this great spell of his. He was still losing runners during this great spell. What the truth was, was that posters needed to get back to the feeling they had watching Scott back then. The player was the same though.
Similarly with Bruno. We talk about how great he was at the start, and how he’s just off form. I beg to differ. The player hasn’t changed. The perspective has. What people choose to ignore or explain away has changed. Bruno was giving the ball away repeatedly from the very beginning of his United career. You just didn’t give a shit about it at the time. Firstly, the team was winning, but also - he was new, and I think United fans are programmed to hero-worship, and he was the new one. What was said, over and over, was that ‘I don’t mind him giving the ball away, at least he’s trying things. Much better than Lingard passing it backwards’. Okay, so why do you mind now? Now we are acting as if he has just suddenly lost form. Or it was ‘even when he doesn’t play well, he’ll still register a goal/assist’. That was said so frequently after games from the very beginning. Okay, so why do you care that he isn’t ‘playing well’ now? The question marks have always been there if people wanted to ask the questions. The posters, like myself, who did care about the detail in the performance were looked at as weirdos because ultimately, nobody cares about that shit, or a narrative was created that anyone who had a problem with his game only did so because they liked Pogba. We went from not minding his turnover of possession ‘because KDB only has x percentage’, to poor form being dismissed as fatigue to people now just being fed up. Then as the first seeds of frustration started to come for people, it was ‘he just needs a manager to tell him to reign it in a bit and he’ll be fine’. Which is a statement in blind hope. He’s never shown the capacity or frankly, ability, to play that sort of shorter game.
The football narrative is now changing against Bruno, but I don’t see any huge change in the player. He is still a chance creating machine this very season. He left the CL with the most assists. He has a lot of assists this season. He has less goals, but a large percentage of his early goals were from the spot when we were getting an abnormal amount to the degree that everyone in the game was talking about it. This, what you have here now, is simply Bruno Fernandes, for better or for worse. If you had no problem with him scoring highly in key passes two years ago, then you shouldn’t have one now. Because the stuff you are now speaking on was there from the beginning. If that’s what you like, then Bruno isn’t massively off form at all. He’s just Bruno.
For me, there’s no reigning in, no rediscovery of form, he’s just the wrong player, simply because he doesn’t have the attributes of the right player. He’s never shown himself to have them. He does have some exceptional attributes, but they don’t make him the right player. He should be moved on as soon as we can because we will never be a good enough team with him as a 10 IMO.
Gives the ball away far too much for my liking.
Bruno isn't the issue.
If we hadn't signed him we'd be playing at the standard we are now earlier. He absolutely carried us for a while. He's been poor lately but everyone is.
Ten Hag made VdB look a player as a #10. He'll do the same with Bruno.
If we hadn't signed him we'd be playing at the standard we are now earlier. He absolutely carried us for a while. He's been poor lately but everyone is.
Ten Hag made VdB look a player as a #10. He'll do the same with Bruno.
Great post and completely agree.
20 years ago you stick him up with a number 9 in a 442 and let him concentrate on getting goals, the idea of him ever being a top midfielder is a joke
He has the same mental immaturity as the other jokers around him
It annoys me that we gave him a huge new contract for no reason at a point when we could have started to move away from rewarding mediocrity.
He's become a problem for this team as we're playing with another man down in midfield with him constantly giving the ball away while offering zero physicality, aggression and leadership.
He's become a problem for this team as we're playing with another man down in midfield with him constantly giving the ball away while offering zero physicality, aggression and leadership.
Strange view of the match our Bruno had. Asked if he felt everyone gave everything he said something like “yes, I’d be very disappointed if anyone didn’t”
do this lot wear blinkers or have zero self awareness?
do this lot wear blinkers or have zero self awareness?
That is looking at it in the small picture...
When that attempt of a final pass only reaches our player just once out of every ten attempts that he tries it, then if we are being completely honest, the bigger picture says that Bruno's final pass is not very effective at all.
Well I agree that he doesn’t have good pass selection. But he does have the ability to execute a variety of chance creating passes. As shown by his chance creation stats. His problem is the choices he makes. But the ability to actually play a difficult pass is there. For example, Scott McTominay simply doesn’t have the ability to make some of the passes Bruno can make. It’s more a choice issue. Like, Rashford has both the ability to go past a player/players, and also poor decision making on when to try to go past players. But when the choice is correct, the ability does exist, as he’s shown many times by going past players.
Spot on. I think you’ve got all of these right.
Great post and I agree completely with your conclusion.
People who are hoping for Bruno to adapt or change his game will be waiting a long time.
I agree with much of what you say, but in my view Bruno isn't a 10 who plays in the pockets , nor a false nine, nor a shadow striker. He's not particularly threatening in the opposition box and isn't that prolific a goalscorer, so I don't know why there's a strong desire to have him so high up the pitch. He scored only 4 non-penalty goals in his first half season here, before scoring 15 last season and 9 this. 28 non-penalty goals in 121 games is better than one in five, but less than one in four. Bruno's not going to get many more than 10-12 non-penalty goals a season, even with European football and deep cup runs.
For me, he's a midfielder who needs to have the game in front of him and have multiple options ahead of him for his elite shot creation in the final third. In a 4-3-3, he's the more advanced and attacking mezzala in one of the wide berths of the midfield three. You want a dedicated holding midfielder who can progress the ball playing centrally, some real legs and tenacity in a ball-willing midfielder alongside that, then Bruno as the third man playing with a tad more respect for the ball.
How you can build around him when there is big gap between 2 ways of playing in his game.
For me, the further away from goal he is, the worse he looks. His only qualities of a high standard are linked to his direct involvement in the creation of a goalscoring situation. The further back he is from the opponents goal, the lower the probability of any of his actions leading to a goal or chance. And without that, he’s a bang average player for me, literally nothing left. Having him as a CM would be pointless.
I feel he is a decisive player, but not a building player. He needs to be as close to an opponents goal as possible, and needs to be out of any midfield 3. His best actions are decisive ones. I don’t think many people can point to anything he does to a particularly high standard in the first or second third (unless he manages to create a chance from there, which he is capable of). I also think there is a lesser emphasis on possession retention in the front 3 than there is in the middle 3. If ETH can get him in his furthest 3, then I think that will serve him best. Then he can be a forward, and present good numbers exclusively, which is enough in a front line I think, just not in a midfield.
Well, I wouldn't want him too deep, but at the same time you need multiple other attacking players ahead of him for him to look to play in.
if you play a 4-3-3, he doesn't really suit any of the front three berths, unless you play very narrow with very attacking full backs providing the width. You have to play more of a 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot behind him and still have a centre forward and two other attacks either side of him. I would still want him more withdrawn than most 10s in that shape though. He's not what Juan Mata was. He needs to be deeper than that for the passing options.
He is massively overrated, like the majority of our team. So sloppy in possession, but then you look at his stats. A new 5 year contract does not excite me at all.
@Rozay 's post is one of the best I have ever read on the caf but you know what, since we are meant to be stuck with Bruno, I guess I am gonna be the category of fans you also described in your post.
Deep down, I know he won't change, way too late for that to happen and it's why it does my head in he was extended his contract without the approval of the next manager, this whole thing leaves me in situation where I have to hope for something that's got like chance of happening (Bruno turning into a safe player with his passing)
That gesture he keeps on doing with his hands to calm down is so fecking annoying, too. He dies it all the fecking time.
I think he has the mentality to adapt to a new way of playing, and hopefully can gain the skillset. He certainly has it in him to be someone ten Hag will want in his team, it's just a case of whether he is able to take on all of the instruction.
Agree with this. Particularly about the style of play not changing. Revisionism etc.
I agree with this.
What will happen this summer is the players that leave will all take a step down and a massive wage cut.
When a new manager comes, if he does not adapt, his next move is down with pay cut. Its either that or step the feck up.
its obvious he has the quality, his attitude in aspects of the game has to change.
He said exactly the same when Ralf came in to be fair. That hasn’t panned out at all.
Well this is it, we can't shift too many players in one go. I think Bruno can be useful and even adapt his game but his best thing for us was making the counter attack work and salvaging games in short spells. We can't continue with that. Watching him for Sporting he was very good at pressing people, picking up the ball in midfield, taking on well hit long range shots.
If ETH wants to move him on after a year or two then no problem. All these players will be playing for their futures, there shouldn't be any long term accommodating and keeping hold of players like Darmian.
If ETH wants to move him on after a year or two then no problem. All these players will be playing for their futures, there shouldn't be any long term accommodating and keeping hold of players like Darmian.
Good read this. What type of midfield do you think we need to mask his flaws?
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He was caught on
When that team stopped functioning and Ronaldo took over finishing duties he suddenly starts looking like a liability. He's a system player who no longer inhabits a system.
This is 100% spot on. He knows his weaknesses and he's built a playing style that masks them. Not only that but Ole built a whole team around him based on masking those weaknesses and accentuating his greatest strengths - the quick killer ball and finishing.
When that team stopped functioning and Ronaldo took over finishing duties he suddenly starts looking like a liability. He's a system player who no longer inhabits a system.
If Bruno were to play somewhere in the front 3, then I don’t think the midfield would be tasked with masking any flaws of his. They would simply need to do their jobs as midfielders, and Bruno can then focus solely on trying to impact the scoreline, be it with a goal or direct assist contribution. Because these are by far his strongest skills IMO. He’s not a player that makes us ‘play better’, but he is a player who can make the scoreline better.
If you want to 'mask' his flaws, you play him as a no.10/second striker to do whatever the feck he pleases and play with two holding midfielders who can play in a 'pivot'.
And we'll never win anything playing like this. We'll never be balanced or organized enough to beat the top teams in critical matches.
The only solution for Bruno is to tell him to stick to a certain position and do his job and only his job, and if he can't and wants to wander up top just to maximize his stats so that he can boost his individual success then he can, simply enough, feck off.
Yep pretty much sums up my thoughts on him for a while and having to constantly battle people on here about him. He thrives in a certain style and system that allows him free reign and license all over the pitch, but that system isn't conducive to beating top teams or consistent results. People here love to worship heros and tend to vastly overrate certain players and play styles while underrating others that might not bring the qualities they are used to loving even if the second player is more useful to a team. I'm not sure if that is because many here are still stuck in an era of football from 20+ years ago when tactics and attributes that were valuable then aren't as useful now or what.
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