Depends on the period you're talking about. From 05-09 English teams were consistently making the latter stages. Even Wenger's Arsenal had a final and semi-final appearance in there. That period wasn't especially strong in terms of competition for the English clubs imo. The 90's was difficult and that period when they had two group stages was especially hard as well. The Messi/Ronaldo era's at Barcelona/Madrid from 2010 through to 2018 were arguably the hardest because of the level of those two players/sides. Some of the numbers they were getting were out of this world.Fergie’s CL record should have been better but he didn’t need anything, as if he needed to prove himself moreHis trophy haul is obscene.
The CL was also much much stronger then.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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Could you be wrong?
After all it's just your perception.
What's for sure is that the PL is much much harder to win than the CL.
Not sure I agree with this. I think they’re equally challenging, just in different ways.
You see. Those comments again.Fergie’s CL record should have been better but he didn’t need anything, as if he needed to prove himself more
The CL was also much much stronger then.
He was either a winner in Europe over 20 years or he wasn't. Simple really.Can we agree on winning both the same season makes you a special team and manager?
Only United have managed to do a PL/CL double. No other team has even managed a league/CL double in England aside from Liverpool in the 70s/80s which shows how hard it is to do for an English side. It is what would have made what Klopp nearly achieved this year even more impressive too, but he didn’t. Neither has Pep. Until they do they are far off anything SAF achieved with United despite probably building sides capable of beating the 07/08 or 98/99 sides.
You can get an easy draw in the CL, one game after another and end up winning it just like some team we know.
You're trying to diminish SAF and his achievements ?!!
I can't see Flopp winning a European Trophy with Aberdeen - can anyone here see that?!You see. Those comments again.
That's an even bigger achievement than a covid CL.
Obviously! Who would deny that????
I don't know why we need to tie ourselves in knots with silly statements like this. How could you possibly know "for sure" that PL is "much much" harder to win? Yes, SAF has an underwhelming record in Europe for a multitude of reasons. Big deal. He never claimed to be perfect. Still the greatest manager in the history of the game.
Well Klopp and obviously Pep can go whistle in the wind thenObviously! Who would deny that????
Well said !!Well Klopp and obviously Pep can go whistle in the wind then
........and what's difficult too is SAF winning three PL's after each other --------- TWICE!!
I mean yeah, I guess this is true on paper. I would say that we routinely see games where the weaker team upsets the superior one (e.g. Valencia); this indicates to me that the nature of the CL provides a much thinner margin for error than the PL or any top league does. There is obviously a large element of luck in the competition, but we have seen so many good teams feck up in games that they were supposed to win that it makes me think the CL is more complex and challenging then you’re giving it credit for. I’m not saying it’s the ‘harder’ competition, just that the knockout format presents a challenge which is equal but different to that of the PL or other first rate leagues
It’s more about the spread of money across the leagues. There isn’t really an equivalent now of the powerhouse teams that were around in SAF’s reign - from the Serie A powerhouses through to the rise of La Liga all with the growth of the PL going on. Nowadays you basically just want to avoid other PL teams and maybe Bayern if they sort themselves out.
2 CLs is a great record, that’s probably two more than some top class / great / very good managers like Conte or Simeone will ever win.
What makes Fergie’s record extraordinary are 13 PL titles on top of that (or 2 CLs on top of 13 PLs).
It also depends on the perspective / situation of each club:
Under Fergie I preferred CL titles because I knew PL titles we would be winning anyway if not in the current season then most likely in 1-2 years.
Also despite Liverpool being famous for being a cup team (I mean obviously if you only win 1 league title in 30 years you will automatically be better in cups than in the league) only now they are in a position to win 1 more CL than us since Fergie joined in 86. It was already 4-1 for them before Fergie even joined. Since then until today they have won 2 and we have won 2.
The focus is mostly on Fergie for our “only” 3 CL wins whereas it should also be on the managers before and after him (of course before him you can argue due to the Munich disaster we never know what might have happened, so we can only talk about what has actually happened which is 3 trophies).
What makes Fergie’s record extraordinary are 13 PL titles on top of that (or 2 CLs on top of 13 PLs).
It also depends on the perspective / situation of each club:
Under Fergie I preferred CL titles because I knew PL titles we would be winning anyway if not in the current season then most likely in 1-2 years.
Also despite Liverpool being famous for being a cup team (I mean obviously if you only win 1 league title in 30 years you will automatically be better in cups than in the league) only now they are in a position to win 1 more CL than us since Fergie joined in 86. It was already 4-1 for them before Fergie even joined. Since then until today they have won 2 and we have won 2.
The focus is mostly on Fergie for our “only” 3 CL wins whereas it should also be on the managers before and after him (of course before him you can argue due to the Munich disaster we never know what might have happened, so we can only talk about what has actually happened which is 3 trophies).
Don't we see weaker teams upsetting superior ones each and every week in the PL?
There's no comparison.
Away fans after a few pints laughing at the opposition who aren’t going to win the league isn’t that unusual . Pretty sure if it was City they were playing and Liverpool had scored the same thing would have happenedLike someone posted elsewhere, we can understand Utd fans being relieved City won but other clubs wanting a Sportwash FC club winning is like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Watch Wolves fans bemoaning the rising costs of tickets, players wages, loss of what football used to be and wondering why and when it happened.
You see. Those comments again.
ok. Peak barca, peak Real, Italian teams a force. Doesn’t compare at all now.True, upsets are regular in the PL as well. However, I’d argue that the number of games each team plays in a PL season allows a greater margin for error than in the CL. If you lose to a weaker side in the PL, you still have 37 other games to make up those three points. If you lose to a weaker side in CL knockouts, you have a single game.
Now, league campaigns are unique in that they demand a level of consistency that you can’t find in the CL, but I think that in a similar vein, league competitions are significantly more forgiving than the CL. Again, I’m not putting one over the other in terms of difficulty, I just think it’s worth delineating the differences between these competitions which make them uniquely difficult and compelling.
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There's the answer hitting the nail bang on the head!
And we have another story in the PL presently with two teams way way above the rest of the other teams.
The one which makes the least loss of points against all the lesser teams wins the league.
when SAF was winning there were many strong teams around in the PL and not the only two.
More words. More excuses.
Also, how many points did Dalglish’s champions get? Shall we wipe their wins from existence too?
I hope it’s a wum attempt. If not, you must have bees where your brain should be
I love the way the skew has gone to the cup competition now the league has gone up the swanny.
None of that is down to City and the oil money really. Its down to the likes of Liverpool,Everton,MUFC,Arsenal and Spurs. They brought in shirt sponsorship, ended gate sharing, ending the sharing of the TV money equally between all 92 clubs etc.Like someone posted elsewhere, we can understand Utd fans being relieved City won but other clubs wanting a Sportwash FC club winning is like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Watch Wolves fans bemoaning the rising costs of tickets, players wages, loss of what football used to be and wondering why and when it happened.
You can't really expect Wolves fans to give a shit about the big clubs.
Newcastle will be the ones to finally destroy football for good. Just a matter of time. 10 titles in a row will be the final death of it all.
Or it'll just be them and City back and forth every season. I look forward to competing regularly with you for the top four trophy.
13 Premier leagues in 20 years. 2 titles every 3 years.
I really don't think football will allow this to happen so I view the conversation as pretty immaterial hand wringing from either Liverpool/United fans depending on who is losing out to the oil clubs at the time. Which is most of the "sportswashing human rights abuse" talk source anyway.
By that time, we'll easily beat you with experience
Why wouldn't football "allow" this to happen? Plenty of leagues are like that already, or dominated entirely by a single club that has a total monopoly.
because those are all dominated by legacy clubs with the exception of PSG who, lets be honest, do not have sufficient competition from any single club to oppose them
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Medias and FA won't allow that to happen in pl. Do you seriously think liverpool were good enough to fight with city toe to toe this season in league. I don't think so.
Liverpool was good but not this much good in league to take this into final day with city. The both games against city alone had enough swing in favour to city point wise if refereeing is fair for both teams. PL brand is always important for them.
Is that a fan vote for something? Very odd decision
Jurgen, Jurgen, give us your best Conor Mcgregor impression!
His teeth have evolved to piano keys now.
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