TheGame
Full Member
Being backed in the transfer market, feel its a make or break season for him. Needs to deliver top 4 for them.
The PL is the most competitive league in the world. Realistically you have Liverpool & City who have hit the jackpot with the managers they hired and are 2 out of the top-4. The remaining 2 spots are fought between Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, United and usually 1 dark horse (West Ham, Everton (old), Leicester). That's 5 teams for 2 spots. Just the level of competition means that missing out on a top-4 requires more context than net spend. With a little bit of luck Arsenal would have replaced Spurs last season.
I disagree ... United do have quality but its no better than who they're up against for the remaining 2 spots. Each of the 4 above mentioned teams are within the range of each other. Each of them are capable of coming 3rd to 6th.
Arsenal have a team with alot of potential, they're just probably not ready yet and need another couple of seasons. Saying that though for me Odegaard is the best number 10 in the league and he was experimented with last season as a 8 and played well. So they have quality in areas but are just waiting on the likes of Saka and Martinelli to mature and reach their peak.I don't think Arsenal has the quality of players United, Chelsea and Spurs do. I would place Chelsea slightly above United and Spurs on squad quality mainly because of the defenders they lost this summer (if not they would be far ahead). United & Spurs are more an equal footing for me, Superb attacking players at both teams when in form, average midfield, shitty defence (Although United's I think severely underperformed). Arsenal for me do not have the quality of players in attack all of this teams do, have just as average a midfield and no better defence.
Their base level was higher because they are a top 3 club and recent European & World Champion. Those facts alone tell you their team and squad were better than Arsenal's.Chelsea seems like a bad example to me since they're not strengthening from a higher base level. They're needing to replace players who are leaving or who've flopped badly. The club hasn't been doing a good job.
I think the fact that you judge their base level to not be high, despite them being very recent European champions shows the strength of the league.Chelsea seems like a bad example to me since they're not strengthening from a higher base level. They're needing to replace players who are leaving or who've flopped badly. The club hasn't been doing a good job.
Don't know much about him to be honest, just that Wolves thought they had agreed a deal for him on a pre contract and aren't very happy.Didn't realize they had signed this kid Marquinos. Supposed to be good?
I was also hit YouTube immediately and thought his highlights were a bit “meh”. Conversely, the club and some Brazilian ex-players / pundits seem upset that he’s leaving.Don't know much about him to be honest, just that Wolves thought they had agreed a deal for him on a pre contract and aren't very happy.
Thought even his YouTube were a bit underwhelming, think we are going to assess pre season but likely to go out on loan.
Real Madrid are current European champions but if they had to replace 4 starters tomorrow I wouldn't say they are strenghtening.I think the fact that you judge their base level to not be high, despite them being very recent European champions shows the strength of the league.
Depends who you replaced them with, surely?Real Madrid are current European champions but if they had to replace 4 starters tomorrow I wouldn't say they are strenghtening.
So far, I'm thinking the same. Chelsea have stalled, have lost important players and are facing a retool which might or might not work. United have of course regressed, and are facing a bigger retool yet - so big that it is unlikely to be completed in a single window. Spurs improved a lot last season, and are bringing in so much quality this window. And Arsenal are on a credible upwards trajectory, to an extent that it's plausible that a couple of additions might push them to the next level, if they're the right ones.I disagree ... United do have quality but its no better than who they're up against for the remaining 2 spots. Each of the 4 above mentioned teams are within the range of each other. Each of them are capable of coming 3rd to 6th.
I'd argue only Rudiger would get in their first choice XI last season.Depends who you replaced them with, surely?
Rudiger is a big loss. Christensen also, to a lesser extent. But Lukaku wasn’t playing well at all, while Azpi and Alonso are past their prime. Only two of those players are tricky to upgrade on.
Well. Azpi and Alonso may be past their primes, but they played pretty key roles on last year's team. Christensen played in half the PL games last season, which is a significant contribution. And Lukaku of course was brought in because the team really, really needed a goalscoring striker, so what you need to replace isn't what Lukaku brought, but what he was meant to bring.Depends who you replaced them with, surely?
Rudiger is a big loss. Christensen also, to a lesser extent. But Lukaku wasn’t playing well at all, while Azpi and Alonso are past their prime. Only two of those players are tricky to upgrade on.
You could say it's all or nothing...Being backed in the transfer market, feel its a make or break season for him. Needs to deliver top 4 for them.
Season 2 - The New Batch.You could say it's all or nothing...
Not at all. Wenger was terrible in the market in his last 6-7 years at the club, other than when he was trading on his reputation to bring in an established world class player like Alexis or Ozil. He completely lost his eye for a player and then in his final couple years basically burnt through money desperately trying to hold onto his job. Wenger's actions in the market from from roughly 2014-2018 are a huge part of the reason why the club has needed to rebuild nearly the entire roster in the last few years under Edu/Arteta.Does anyone else feel a bit sick for Arsene Wenger that this guy Arteta has been allowed to spend so much more than the former was? Wenger was a brilliant manager for them and he didn't quite get the support he needed from the club, especially towards the end of his time there.
I’m generally quite supportive of Arteta, but this is a fair point. KSE didn’t want to invest much while Usmanov still had his 30% stake. Since they’ve become 100% shareholders and taken Arsenal private, they’ve found their chequebook. Not only have they sanctioned transfer outlays, but they paid off what was remaining of the stadium loan. Now Arsenal’s only debt is to KSE as opposed to the bank. This has freed up additional funds.Does anyone else feel a bit sick for Arsene Wenger that this guy Arteta has been allowed to spend so much more than the former was? Wenger was a brilliant manager for them and he didn't quite get the support he needed from the club, especially towards the end of his time there.
I'd say he was a victim of circumstance with the timing of the stadium move (along with fan expectations not aligning with the reality of the situation that they were in).Does anyone else feel a bit sick for Arsene Wenger that this guy Arteta has been allowed to spend so much more than the former was? Wenger was a brilliant manager for them and he didn't quite get the support he needed from the club, especially towards the end of his time there.
Yes but if you want to be a top 4 club (or better), you can't settle for an "ok job" forever. I guess you can just wait out the cycle and hope other clubs drop off while you keep building but there's no guarantees in such a situation. If a better manager becomes available I'd take the chance with both hands if I were Arsenal. Vieira will be a contender for example if he can put together another good season or two at Palace.I'd say he was a victim of circumstance with the timing of the stadium move (along with fan expectations not aligning with the reality of the situation that they were in).
On a side note I'd be wary about setting an expectation of "4th place or Bust" for Arteta just because he signed a couple of players.
They are still a mile off City and Liverpool (who both have better managers), I'd assume Chelsea are going to make a couple of signings (Tuchel is superior too) and Spurs have already signed lots of players that improve their first team and squad depth (along with Conte).
That's without even mentioning Manchester United so it's a bit bizarre that all of those 6 Clubs are supposed to fit into the top 4 and anyone who doesn't is a failure/ loser just because they spent x amount, are a big club or had a certain amount of time.
As long as they are in the hunt for the top 4 places by the end of the season I'd say he's done an ok job, getting 4th (considering the competition) would be a good job and any higher than that would be a great job.
It's a good point, 2 teams have to miss out each year. But if it's your team every year, which it is for Arsenal at the moment, you have to try something new or it will continue to always be your team. One year it could be Chelsea, but you'd never expect them to miss out 2 years in a row.On a side note I'd be wary about setting an expectation of "4th place or Bust" for Arteta just because he signed a couple of players.
They are still a mile off City and Liverpool (who both have better managers), I'd assume Chelsea are going to make a couple of signings (Tuchel is superior too) and Spurs have already signed lots of players that improve their first team and squad depth (along with Conte).
That's without even mentioning Manchester United so it's a bit bizarre that all of those 6 Clubs are supposed to fit into the top 4 and anyone who doesn't is a failure/ loser just because they spent x amount, are a big club or had a certain amount of time.
As long as they are in the hunt for the top 4 places by the end of the season I'd say he's done an ok job, getting 4th (considering the competition) would be a good job and any higher than that would be a great job.
I don't think a club like Arsenal have much other options right now, save for finding and appointing the next Klopp.Yes but if you want to be a top 4 club (or better), you can't settle for an "ok job" forever. I guess you can just wait out the cycle and hope other clubs drop off while you keep building but there's no guarantees in such a situation.
I get it but there's plenty of other teams that miss out regularly and will in the future too, if a club like Arsenal were to make the top 4 I would expect it to be the exception rather than the rule.It's a good point, 2 teams have to miss out each year. But if it's your team every year, which it is for Arsenal at the moment, you have to try something new or it will continue to always be your team. One year it could be Chelsea, but you'd never expect them to miss out 2 years in a row.
The year before Arteta took over I think they were 5h right? And last year they were...5th. what was there to steady? He spent shit loads doing it anyway. I'm not saying he's bad but is he in the top 6 managers in the league? I don't think he is.I don't think a club like Arsenal have much other options right now, save for finding and appointing the next Klopp.
If they can do that (and convince him to come to Arsenal) then great but until then they are really a (sporadic) top 4 club at best.
I agree that Viera did a fine job last season due to the rebuild (only 4 points better than Hodgson but blooding new players) but if I give him that credit for getting results (steadying the ship?) while making big changes I have to give the same to Arteta.
I get it but there's plenty of other teams that miss out regularly and will in the future too, if a club like Arsenal were to make the top 4 I would expect it to be the exception rather than the rule.
City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs all have an advantage over them at the moment and they should be looking over their shoulders because I think Newcastle will be gunning for them soon.
Well sure they came 5th the year before but when he took over they were in 10th I think mid way through the season and in free fall?The year before Arteta took over I think they were 5h right? And last year they were...5th. what was there to steady?
If this is true...He spent shit loads doing it anyway.
Then there's not much he can do really, Arsenal dont exist in a vacuum and if those around you are spending at a higher rate than you are (as well as starting off at a higher point than you are) then it's not really a stick to beat him with.Coming into this summer, Arsenal had spent less on transfer fees since Arteta was appointed than any other big six club (assuming Spurs takes up the options on Kulu/Romero) other than Liverpool. His spending is very overstated. All big clubs in the PL are spending a lot of money.
That was the season before. Had we still been in 5th… we wouldn’t have been looking for a new Manager. As it was, Arteta took us over with us in 11th.The year before Arteta took over I think they were 5h right? And last year they were...5th. what was there to steady? He spent shit loads doing it anyway. I'm not saying he's bad but is he in the top 6 managers in the league? I don't think he is.
Well put. In fact, the idea of Arsenal finishing in the top 4 was deemed laughable at the start of last season. Then the goalposts shifted and Arteta was a failure for falling at the last hurdle.So if Arsenal have the 5th/6th biggest spending power, the 5th/6th best manager and the 5th/6th best squad in the league I don't know why there are any expectations for him to consistently get 4th.
Yeah, he's just a midtable manager. Probably bottom half.5th/6th best manager in the league, don't see it sorry. I don't think he's better than quite a host of the midtable managers. He's probably roughly on par with Moyes.
Fair enough.5th/6th best manager in the league, don't see it sorry. I don't think he's better than quite a host of the midtable managers. He's probably roughly on par with Moyes.
Blimey that team would get smashed!Quite a few people praising the work Arteta is doing but they still to address major issues with their squad. They need a CM as Partey and Xhaka have a poor injury record and behind them they only have Lokonga. Their number one priority should be Tielemans but seem to be stalling for some reason.
The fact they were after Rafinha does lead me to be believe that they will be switching to a 4-3-3 this season.
------------------------Jesus-------------------------
Martinelli----------------------------------Rafinha
-------------Saka------------------Odegaard-------
-------------------------Partey----------------------------
It's because Klopp and Pep always wins, there is nothing much to discuss. On the other hand there is lot of discussion around Arteta and also there is more to laugh at Arsenal.The obsession with Arteta on this site is hilarious.
Since it was started, this thread has more posts than the Klopp or Pep threads have had during the same time period. It has more posts than the threads on Conte and Pochettino, two managers United was actually heavily linked with hiring.
Yup. It's more amusement and bemusement really.It's because Klopp and Pep always wins, there is nothing much to discuss. On the other hand there is lot of discussion around Arteta and also there is more to laugh at Arsenal.
He's not the 5th/6th best manager in the league. And the whole point of hiring a manager is that he elevates you beyond where you were. Ole despite his mediocrity got us to 3rd and 2nd. Pochettino took Spurs consistently into the top 4 and a CL final. Conte got 4th after joining mid way through a season.Well sure they came 5th the year before but when he took over they were in 10th I think mid way through the season and in free fall?
An Arsenal fan will have to help me out here but I'm pretty sure he wasn't brought in because all was going to plan?
In the mean time he's shipped out a load of highly paid players who either weren't performing or a bad influence on the squad/ dressing room (or both).
If this is true...
Then there's not much he can do really, Arsenal dont exist in a vacuum and if those around you are spending at a higher rate than you are (as well as starting off at a higher point than you are) then it's not really a stick to beat him with.
I don't think he's in the top 4 managers in the league (Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte) but he's 5/6th IMO depending on how ETH settles.
So if Arsenal have the 5th/6th biggest spending power, the 5th/6th best manager and the 5th/6th best squad in the league I don't know why there are any expectations for him to consistently get 4th.
As I said before if there is someone out there who can do more than what he is doing with the squad he has than by all means replace him but good luck convincing that guy to go there VS going for one of the bigger jobs across Europe.
He is not the 5th/6th best manager in the league. There are other better managers than him. The whole myth that he is underachieving with Arsenal is what Arsenal board and Arteta have convinced Arsenal fans. I always say the only thing he has done at Arsenal is lower the standards. He is very bery fortunate to be still be managing at such a big club after his mediocre managing job.Well sure they came 5th the year before but when he took over they were in 10th I think mid way through the season and in free fall?
An Arsenal fan will have to help me out here but I'm pretty sure he wasn't brought in because all was going to plan?
In the mean time he's shipped out a load of highly paid players who either weren't performing or a bad influence on the squad/ dressing room (or both).
If this is true...
Then there's not much he can do really, Arsenal dont exist in a vacuum and if those around you are spending at a higher rate than you are (as well as starting off at a higher point than you are) then it's not really a stick to beat him with.
I don't think he's in the top 4 managers in the league (Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte) but he's 5/6th IMO depending on how ETH settles.
So if Arsenal have the 5th/6th biggest spending power, the 5th/6th best manager and the 5th/6th best squad in the league I don't know why there are any expectations for him to consistently get 4th.
As I said before if there is someone out there who can do more than what he is doing with the squad he has than by all means replace him but good luck convincing that guy to go there VS going for one of the bigger jobs across Europe.
So ETH's work with ajax means feck all and somehow Arteta is as good as ETH nowI don't think he's in the top 4 managers in the league (Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte) but he's 5/6th IMO depending on how ETH settles.
Of course there should be expectations. But it’s also important to keep in mind that short term results aren’t always the most important thing. Arsenal were a complete dumpster fire with almost no young talent to build around, a poisonous team culture, and a roster bloated with overpaid shitters unsuited to the way the game has been trending at the highest level. Edu and Arteta have successfully turned over that roster, stocked it with young talent on reasonable wages, started playing some good stuff at a high tactical level when the right players are available, and created a much more positive culture in the dressing room while also completely changing the atmosphere in the stadium. In the end, all that is much more important than finishing fourth instead of fifth this year or finishing sixth instead of eighth a year before.He's not the 5th/6th best manager in the league. And the whole point of hiring a manager is that he elevates you beyond where you were. Ole despite his mediocrity got us to 3rd and 2nd. Pochettino took Spurs consistently into the top 4 and a CL final. Conte got 4th after joining mid way through a season.
For Arteta to get good financial backing and some still pretending there should be no expectations, is laughable. Nobody said he should consistently get 4th but maybe he should manage it once in his first 3-4 years at least? Especially now that he's spending big? Otherwise why is he even at Arsenal.
Arsenal are not and should not be a training ground for managers. There needs to be a balance between patience and excellence.
I think that's what he did, they improved when he took over from Emery and won the FA cup (and the community shield which doesn't really count) and has made them "competitive" (at least for 4th) while massively overhauling the squad.And the whole point of hiring a manager is that he elevates you beyond where you were.
Ole despite his mediocrity got us to 3rd and 2nd. Pochettino took Spurs consistently into the top 4 and a CL final. Conte got 4th after joining mid way through a season.
I didn't say there shouldn't be any expectations.For Arteta to get good financial backing and some still pretending there should be no expectations, is laughable. Nobody said he should consistently get 4th but maybe he should manage it once in his first 3-4 years at least? Especially now that he's spending big? Otherwise why is he even at Arsenal.
I didn't say that.So ETH's work with ajax means feck all and somehow Arteta is as good as ETH now