He's got to be given time but a shocking debut for me.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- 10
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Except passing doesn't fills me with confidence. Tbh, he reminded me on bad version of Bailly.
Give over. If that wasn’t given as a pen against us we’d have been fkn livid.
Saw enough, although raw, he will be good. Tough start but he got better as the game went on. Think the pace of the game caught him out early doors.
Think he'll prove a decent player but likely massively overpriced. Just to think that centre back pairing cost what, 130-140m? Mad.
Thought he was ok. Better than Maguire (as if that’s the bar 
)
)Nothing really positive to take from his performance today, but then again, the entire team were poor.
He will be given more opportunities and I only hope we see a player that resembles an Ajax Player of the Year because boy, do we need it.
It's incredible the amount of players we sign with prestige and optimism, only to disappoint. Let's hope we can get the central defensive pairing partnership correct and build from there.
He will be given more opportunities and I only hope we see a player that resembles an Ajax Player of the Year because boy, do we need it.
It's incredible the amount of players we sign with prestige and optimism, only to disappoint. Let's hope we can get the central defensive pairing partnership correct and build from there.
Still think he should be in midfield especially while our options are so dire. Very nice technically and comfortable on the ball. Not convinced he'll succeed playing CB in the PL.
Bailly without the athleticism
Oh wow, you guys are grilling him in here. I actually thought he was quite decent today. Composed on the ball, good passing. Yes he made one or two misstakes, and was lucky to not concede a penalty, but still better than what our other defenders have done lately. He's also only played about 45 minutes before todays game, next to Varane. Quite a difference when it's Maguire next to him. It will take time, like everything else.
Definitely worth an experiment, with a possible formation tweak also? Not ideal as the season has started, so a lot of hard work needs to be done on the training field to find the answers. We need drastic changes as this set up, with the same players, isn't working.
God, its been a really difficult night to read or type anything positive. Hopefully, the next 3 weeks will see a minimum of 2 new additions to the starting 11 and Ten Hags philosophy can be implemented further.
Funny thing is he’d be our best CM and we have Varane on the bench
I think this is spot on. How we have neglected that position for so many years is absolutely beyond me.
Doesn't feel like a £50m improvement on what we had before.
First PL game. Chill!
It was totally a penalty, though.
It was totally a penalty, though.
I wonder how many centre backs we’re going to throw on the bonfire before addressing the midfield. Martinez looks just another dude who’s gonna be exposed by his teammates.
I’ve been banging the same drum since Blind, Jones and Smalling were being lambasted with a reasonable defensive record. It’s not the quality or quantity of centre backs that are the problem. It’s been the midfield for a decade.
I’ve been banging the same drum since Blind, Jones and Smalling were being lambasted with a reasonable defensive record. It’s not the quality or quantity of centre backs that are the problem. It’s been the midfield for a decade.
I wasn't really in favour of this signing in the first place so it's difficult for me to make any assessment without it looking like confirmation bias.
He looks good on the ball like we expected.
The major issue I had when we were linked to him was, although we need our centre backs to have a level of competence on the ball, we also really need a player who was going to seriously improve us defensively. I never fancied a 5ft9 centre back from the Dutch league to come in and transform our defence. And I don't buy this pipe dream that we're going to be a team that is so utterly dominant in possession that our centre backs won't have to do any traditional defending.
Maguire-Martinez partnership has so many deficiencies. A complete lack of mobility on Maguire's part, a lack of physicality and aerial prowess on Martinez' part, and a lack of recovery pace between the pair of them.
He looks good on the ball like we expected.
The major issue I had when we were linked to him was, although we need our centre backs to have a level of competence on the ball, we also really need a player who was going to seriously improve us defensively. I never fancied a 5ft9 centre back from the Dutch league to come in and transform our defence. And I don't buy this pipe dream that we're going to be a team that is so utterly dominant in possession that our centre backs won't have to do any traditional defending.
Maguire-Martinez partnership has so many deficiencies. A complete lack of mobility on Maguire's part, a lack of physicality and aerial prowess on Martinez' part, and a lack of recovery pace between the pair of them.
Obviously I haven't watched enough of him to make a real judgement, but a very poor debut where he could easily have gifted them two goals. Would be really horrible to see him against a team with two physical front men. However, he can clearly pass the ball. Can he really not play in midfield? Can see him getting sent off or similar and not getting his place back at CB.
I don't really get the reaction to his performance by some. There were a couple of dodgy moments defensively like the penalty shout for example but he and Eriksen were the best players on the ball by a distance.
I thought overall he was fine. Clearly composed on the ball and can pick a pass. His general defending was fine. Negatives are the booking for losing the ball and the penalty he should've conceded but give the lad a chance; it's one game after next to no pre-season.
Exactly.
He looked immense for Liverpool from his very first game. Long before they signed Fabinho, when Liverpool’s most defensive midfielder was Jordan Henderson.
Let’s hope this guy is got the DCM role in his locker, cos he is gonna get monstered by some on the big CFs in this league.
I knew he was short, but he looked ridiculously small to be playing CB in the Prem.
I think Ivan Toney is gonna give him serious problems next week.
I knew he was short, but he looked ridiculously small to be playing CB in the Prem.
I think Ivan Toney is gonna give him serious problems next week.
Someone said that football is mostly played on the deck in the PL, so height shouldn’t be an issue. That’s true but the presence of an unusually short CB means the opposition are going to target him. I doubt Brighton will play as many long, high passes to Welbeck as they did today in their next 5 matches combined.
Even though I liked a lot of what I saw of Martinez today, in particular his composure on the ball and the way he took down the ball under control under pressure situations.
I do like him, but I also can’t pretend I’m not concerned about his potential weaknesses. Ignoring all the jokes about his height and the people saying height doesn’t matter. I have to say the idea of height goes hand in hand with physical presence.
I know he has a great leap and this unconvincing argument that he had the best aerial duels in the Dutch league. We simply can’t use the Dutch league as valid justifications when analysing the premier league.
Even though ETH has bought Martinez based on his qualities and because he knows him better than anyone, I want to bring up the comments Pep and Klopp both said in similar phrases when they first came to the premier league. I remember them talking about how they didn’t realise how physical the premier league was until they got here. And also how important the second ball battle was when winning the ball in the air.
Now one thing that is very prominent in the premier league by a lot of teams, in particular the ones with physical strikers in their team (a lot of the bottom half teams) is the long diagonal ball from full back areas to the opposite back post. It’s often a strategy of the striker to peel away to the back post for that diagonal ball. I’ve rarely seen this so prominent in any other league, especially not in the Dutch league.
Ultimately, that’s where my biggest concerns lie with Martinez. No matter how good his leap is, it’s incredibly hard to get a good jump when you are back tracking to get close to a player peeling away at the back post. Whether you agree or not, there are going to be plenty of times where big strikers are going to either out jump or out muscle Martinez. Welbeck even outjumped him today even though he’s not the most physical or dangerous in the air.
If this becomes a common weakness in our team, I can see many opposition teams targeting this weakness. For example, Cancelo playing the long diagonal to Haaland at the far side between Martinez and Shaw. Haaland is going to get the better of them on more than one occasion. (I’m not convinced by the Martinez had Haaland in his pocket argument because Haaland did get the better of him a few times but failed to put the ball away.). Similar to how Robertson will play the diagonal to Nunez at the far post. Mitrovic and Antonio are other examples.
I’m saying all this as someone who is a fan of Martinez but I also can’t pretend he’ll be “perfectly fine”. There is a reason why Liverpool and City play with defenders who are comfortable on the ball but also physically big and present. VVD, Matip, Konate, Dias, Stones all great on the ball but big boys too.
I’m sure ETH is well aware of all this but I also go back to Pep and Klopp learning a lot more about the physicality of the league once they experienced it. ETH will be learning that now too.
I do like him, but I also can’t pretend I’m not concerned about his potential weaknesses. Ignoring all the jokes about his height and the people saying height doesn’t matter. I have to say the idea of height goes hand in hand with physical presence.
I know he has a great leap and this unconvincing argument that he had the best aerial duels in the Dutch league. We simply can’t use the Dutch league as valid justifications when analysing the premier league.
Even though ETH has bought Martinez based on his qualities and because he knows him better than anyone, I want to bring up the comments Pep and Klopp both said in similar phrases when they first came to the premier league. I remember them talking about how they didn’t realise how physical the premier league was until they got here. And also how important the second ball battle was when winning the ball in the air.
Now one thing that is very prominent in the premier league by a lot of teams, in particular the ones with physical strikers in their team (a lot of the bottom half teams) is the long diagonal ball from full back areas to the opposite back post. It’s often a strategy of the striker to peel away to the back post for that diagonal ball. I’ve rarely seen this so prominent in any other league, especially not in the Dutch league.
Ultimately, that’s where my biggest concerns lie with Martinez. No matter how good his leap is, it’s incredibly hard to get a good jump when you are back tracking to get close to a player peeling away at the back post. Whether you agree or not, there are going to be plenty of times where big strikers are going to either out jump or out muscle Martinez. Welbeck even outjumped him today even though he’s not the most physical or dangerous in the air.
If this becomes a common weakness in our team, I can see many opposition teams targeting this weakness. For example, Cancelo playing the long diagonal to Haaland at the far side between Martinez and Shaw. Haaland is going to get the better of them on more than one occasion. (I’m not convinced by the Martinez had Haaland in his pocket argument because Haaland did get the better of him a few times but failed to put the ball away.). Similar to how Robertson will play the diagonal to Nunez at the far post. Mitrovic and Antonio are other examples.
I’m saying all this as someone who is a fan of Martinez but I also can’t pretend he’ll be “perfectly fine”. There is a reason why Liverpool and City play with defenders who are comfortable on the ball but also physically big and present. VVD, Matip, Konate, Dias, Stones all great on the ball but big boys too.
I’m sure ETH is well aware of all this but I also go back to Pep and Klopp learning a lot more about the physicality of the league once they experienced it. ETH will be learning that now too.
This. Evra in particular had a horrible start to his Utd career. So yeah, let’s wait a little.
Baptism of fire and he's an atheist.
Less Richard Dawkins and more John Paul the second if you know what I mean
Less Richard Dawkins and more John Paul the second if you know what I mean
Good at passing, not good at defending, lucky not to give a penalty on his debut because that was a penalty all day long.
He was making some pretty poorly timed tackles or was bodied off the ball a little too easily. So either he is rusty with his timing or he needs to adjust to the pace & physicality of the PL games ASAP.
He has to be shocked that it was only a mid-table club he was facing. It ain't the Eredivisie anymore.
Paddy and Vidic had poor starts so it's ridiculous to come to any conclusion after one game.
He has to be shocked that it was only a mid-table club he was facing. It ain't the Eredivisie anymore.
Paddy and Vidic had poor starts so it's ridiculous to come to any conclusion after one game.
Looks absolutely tiny at CB, a real worry. On the other hand he looks very good on the ball. Everything about him seems better suited to DM really, without even considering how shite our midfield is currently.. but what do I know.
Seems to have a good attitude by all accounts and I like his style of all action player, so all fingers crossed for him to succeed here.
Seems to have a good attitude by all accounts and I like his style of all action player, so all fingers crossed for him to succeed here.
Good post!
City played Kyle Walker dead center of midfield for much of today's game.
It was a lot of money, but he's tough in the tackle, 24 and great on the ball, that should see him become a starter at either DM, LCB in a 3 or in a 2, depending on how things shake out. Considering only Sancho looks like a definite long-term starter here in the entire squad (I'm tempted to add Garnacho but it's far too early) I'm not worried about this one. Thought Welbeck mostly did his damage on Maguire's side.
It was a lot of money, but he's tough in the tackle, 24 and great on the ball, that should see him become a starter at either DM, LCB in a 3 or in a 2, depending on how things shake out. Considering only Sancho looks like a definite long-term starter here in the entire squad (I'm tempted to add Garnacho but it's far too early) I'm not worried about this one. Thought Welbeck mostly did his damage on Maguire's side.
If we don’t start games with the atrocity that is Fretominay (surely we have to make at least 1 more CM signing), I predict Martinez will be an absolute fan favourite by the end of the season and one of our best players.
Yes he won’t win all of his duels in the air, but he has some fantastic qualities of a ball playing CB and is an aggressive and tenacious defender.
Yes he won’t win all of his duels in the air, but he has some fantastic qualities of a ball playing CB and is an aggressive and tenacious defender.
He has all the marking of a very good DM but I'm certain we will play him at CB til December and by then be in 9th before realizing that we have an better solution for our midfield by playing donny, Martinez and eriksen together.
Too early to say anything with certainty but I A) like his passing and tenacity and B) worry that he'll always be trying to compensate for his small stature
Anyhoo let's see.
Anyhoo let's see.
Wouldn't even say this about Sancho. He has it all to prove really. Really De Gea is the only definite long term starter.
He seems comfortable on the ball considering the rest of our squad who lack any form of self-belief
You're not wrong in the sense that Sancho hasn't performed here yet, but he passes the eye test for me, though I wish he'd run in behind more and vary his game a bit.
De Gea I disagree with. He's just not comfortable on the ball and we've brought in a manager who wants possession so badly he's immediately signed the shortest CB in the entire league. We also have Henderson on loan who isn't as good a shot stopper but better commanding his box and at least is quite 2-footed and good at throwing out even if he's not a brilliant passer with either.
He looks like a really good player, but one who will obviously have issues playing CB in a back four in the Premier League. Maybe in a back 3 that wouldn’t be an issue, or if he had a better partner than Maguire. Thing is, I think he’d be good playing at the back of midfield and United definitely need someone there, even if FDJ comes in.
Agreed. It would be suicidal to have him play in back 4 consistently. Hopefully he starts the next game as well. There is a quickness about him too.
Marcus Rojo vibes
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