I agree with all that but for the bit where the board retains the right to sign a player a manager does not want. The club's job is to find players who fit the managers profile and way of playing. If a player is proposed who the manager believes does not match that, his view should prevail. Ultimately the manager is accountable for the performance of his players, not the board or anyone else.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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I would say that this depends on the overall scenario.
If we're talking about a player who does fit the overall profile, and who the DOF likes, but the manager (head coach, whatever) is reluctant about (for specific reasons) - then yes, absolutely, it makes sense to give the last word to the manager/ head coach (who actually has to fit that player into his team).
The structure should be clear, though (and that is the key point): the manager/head coach should not be the one identifying targets. He should be consulted on them and no target should be forced on him, but the overall transfer policy should be carried out by someone beyond (above, if you will) the manager/ head coach.
Why? Because the manager/head coach is most likely a figure who will be much more temporary than the transfer policy itself.
I think we agree, I guess my opinion is that ETH is the first manager we've had that actually has the proper profile of player in mind (that the board should always have had yes). We should always be targeting players that thrive in the modern game, but it's also understandable for our first window to go after specific ETH targets seeing as he's the one that has to bed in a new system.
Yes - and I've said before that we (as fans) should probably give 'em all a pass for this window: it's not unreasonable (at least not very unreasonable) if Murtough decided to primarily focus on ETH targets in this window.
Going forward, though...Murtough needs to do much more than just rely on ETH. He needs to establish an actual transfer/recruitment strategy that does not depend on recommendations from the current manager/head coach.
In other words - it's really not about doubting ETH's preferred targets this window, but rather about the big picture, the long-term approach, how we should do things as a club.
getting back into the CL is the priority simple as that....the europa league is not a priority
So he’s not a possession based manager who wants to dominate the teams with more of the ball ? Well, that’s a bummer. I was hoping to go in that direction under him.
I didn’t jump to any conclusions mate. You did that for me. I specifically mentioned that I’m genuinely asking about his style of play that he is a possession based manager or not. Would have been better if you had read it properly rather than jumping on me.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Yep. Very frustrating. It's going to hold us back all season long. Might cost us a trophy or top 4.
Could have brought in someone as a stopgap... Memphis for instance. Not great, but better than geriatric Ronaldo.
What you're describing isn't so much a player recruitment problem as it is a manager recruitment problem. The board has flip flopped between managers with different tactical philosophies, which has resulted in a half constructed squad that's not good at anything. This is how every manager has simultaneously spent a ton of money and still not felt that they were backed by the board because half the players weren't fit for purpose.
I'm not sure what buying players that transcend the current manager is supposed to look like. Buying "good" players that the current manager doesn't want is a waste of money. If we build a good squad for Ten Hag and then hire Nagelsmann after he leaves, that likely wouldn't require a £400 million squad overhaul. If we hire Mourinho after, then we're going to have to replace most of the players.
I think yesterday showed our lack of depth in terms of quality. All the changes he made were logical and necessary.
1) Maguire instead of Varane to give respite to our best centre half with previous injury issues
2) Lindelof instead of Martinez - same as above plus need to give Lindelof game time
3) Dalot being replaced in 2nd half to manage his game time
4) Eriksen /Bruno 45 minutes each as our midfield needs atleast one of them to have a cutting edge and both have been our most hardworking players
5) Fred as a forward 8 to press from the front and accommodate Cristiano
6) Casamerio & Cristiano needed game time
It is hard to argue with any of the changes and if it were not for a horrendous ref call, we might have won the game.
The issue is that a lot of our 2nd string are just not good enough. Maguire & Lindelof slow us down and are not proactive in defending. Fred is an enigma and can’t be relied upon on the ball. Cristiano seems to have declined further and everything he does seems to be in a slow motion.
Ten hag has a big problem at hand with fixtures coming fast. He should maintain a consistent PL XI (give or take 1/2 players) and heavily rotate in cups. We will likely see bad results and shock cup exits but I rather we make Top 4 our priority.
Next season, get rid of Maguire and bring a replacement CB, bring a ball playing midfielder, a starting striker and a GK and we are almost there if Dalot can continue to develop.
1) Maguire instead of Varane to give respite to our best centre half with previous injury issues
2) Lindelof instead of Martinez - same as above plus need to give Lindelof game time
3) Dalot being replaced in 2nd half to manage his game time
4) Eriksen /Bruno 45 minutes each as our midfield needs atleast one of them to have a cutting edge and both have been our most hardworking players
5) Fred as a forward 8 to press from the front and accommodate Cristiano
6) Casamerio & Cristiano needed game time
It is hard to argue with any of the changes and if it were not for a horrendous ref call, we might have won the game.
The issue is that a lot of our 2nd string are just not good enough. Maguire & Lindelof slow us down and are not proactive in defending. Fred is an enigma and can’t be relied upon on the ball. Cristiano seems to have declined further and everything he does seems to be in a slow motion.
Ten hag has a big problem at hand with fixtures coming fast. He should maintain a consistent PL XI (give or take 1/2 players) and heavily rotate in cups. We will likely see bad results and shock cup exits but I rather we make Top 4 our priority.
Next season, get rid of Maguire and bring a replacement CB, bring a ball playing midfielder, a starting striker and a GK and we are almost there if Dalot can continue to develop.
Pretty much.
Think/hope we will concentrate on the League.
The Cups a distant second.
We simply do not have the squad strength.
Getting a second preseason to bed in Antony and Casemiro
Mate you were asking for evidence for him being a manager who wants his team to be more possession oriented. Seemed like you were not sure of that since you perceived him to be a counter attacking style manager based on what you've seen so far.
Hence why I said you should just watch Ajax of last season to get the answer.
We did but he rejected us
On talkshit White asked the cnut 'Ten Hag has been given the signings he's asked for, what does that tell us?' I said under my breath, we haven't got a dof
Ajax completely dominated Dortmund in both games. That can‘t be right.
mic drop
Would ten Hag of played the first 11 against sociedad if he knew games was postponed this weekend? I think he would of. The only reason he played that team was so we had a fully fit team on Sunday.
Yeah rotation seemed to focus heavily on his mind (giving players a rest and giving others who haven’t featured much some minutes). Including Antony because he needs fitness and to be integrated into the team. I’m just not sure why AWB still didn’t get a chance
(unless he’s injured?).I think he would have swapped up regardless. It’s important to give fringe players match time when you can. Especially for a new manager still getting to know his squad. If anything, he should have maybe rotated more than he did.
So, what's happened to the 'in it to win it' mentality? I'm sure fans who bought tickets for the Europa games would like to know. Success breeds success, once you start saying one competition is the priority, it's the slippery slope and provides ready-made excuses for failure. This club is bigger than that and I hope ETH is too!
This season is going to this way. We will lose some and win some. The main thing now should be building a stable team where players can perform their best by trusting each other. The small patterns of play are already visible albeit on a few occasions. But we finally have a tactical manager after I don't know how long, so it's going to take a bit of time. We just have to trust the manager and players for now. Patience is the name of the game now. We will work hard and keep on getting better.
Hopefully he stops making weird decisions like playing Fred at CAM and Lindelof as fullback.
I guess he feels like he needs to know his players but I feel like he doesn’t need to be so stupid intentionally.
What I love the most out of him though is his in game changes to help win a match.
I guess he feels like he needs to know his players but I feel like he doesn’t need to be so stupid intentionally.
What I love the most out of him though is his in game changes to help win a match.
We went into this game to win it with a strong line up, but our performance wasn‘t good enough. We need to improve more, as the manager is reminding you after every press conference.
We did not deserve to lose, but we were poor, with a lot of turnover. Antony looks not fit yet and needs time to adapt.
Fred was poor and Casemiro needs time to adapt as well. Ronaldo needs to show more if he wants to start.
There were good phases of play and Elanga was a bright spot.
I think we will see another improved performance on the back of this.
We need to find a way to play without Eriksen. I had him in my line up, because there is no one else to do the playmaking.
Watched Ajax vs Rangers: night and day, but that is the goal.
We did not deserve to lose, but we were poor, with a lot of turnover. Antony looks not fit yet and needs time to adapt.
Fred was poor and Casemiro needs time to adapt as well. Ronaldo needs to show more if he wants to start.
There were good phases of play and Elanga was a bright spot.
I think we will see another improved performance on the back of this.
We need to find a way to play without Eriksen. I had him in my line up, because there is no one else to do the playmaking.
Watched Ajax vs Rangers: night and day, but that is the goal.
It’s a tough one because it’s hard to rest both Bruno and eriksen together because without one of them in the team we have 0 creativity. Think the full backs both should of been rested.
I can do that too
It's OK to be wrong. Accept it.
Exactly. Ten Hag has a squad to keep happy, including many very capable players that also will want to show that they can play the game his way. If they don't even get to play the first Europa League game (there are five, losing this one shouldn't be a big deal), when do they? And will that do to their motivation?
Plus, even though a significantly changed team is always a bit disjointed and won't function as efficiently as the regular team, Ten Hag will have learned something about the rotated players' ability to execute his demands under pressure in a real game. That should help him figure out what to focus on in training, at least for them. Again, when else would he get this opportunity if not in this sort of game? (And early-stage cup games, obviously.)
The positives is that we play with a lot more width, and we switch play from side to side more often which is something we have been struggling heavily with, so whilst not quick or perfect yet it's an improvement. The negatives is that our squad's depth consists of expensive former failed first team players struggling to adapt. We have to sell these players, as they don't provide any consistency through the team when they play. Effort is still lacking, quality below par. It's so unusual to keep these expensive flops for so long I'm sure it must feel like an impossible job to create the right atmosphere. We should have sympathy for Ten Hag and look to the owners, and men above for not making it easier for our managers to come in and do the right things.
i get what you're saying but we don't have enough depth in the squad right now to play our best XI in both the Europa and League matches especially with Martial already injured. that's why i say top 4 is more important than winning the europa league
How did Chelsea, PSG, City and Liverpool do against Real Madrid in the CL last year with all that possession?
The guy was trying to prove that Ajax had less possession against big sides in the CL. Which is not often the case.
The two games above that he cherry picked: if you are up and the other side is is chasing the game, it is normal to have lower numbers, especially against a good side. 2 goals up after 18 minutes against Real Madrid, and he‘s using that game to prove a point about Ajax in big games
It’s a complete misunderstanding that ETH’s philosophy is possession-based football. In contrast, his playing style is “vertical” positional play.
Having the ball, pressing and getting it back quickly is the essence of possession style football. How the ball progresses forward is a different matter. You are right Hag wants it vertical when possible.
It’s about the principles. Positional play doesn’t concentrate on possession at all. When a well drilled positional playing team does well in possession and press to recover the ball out of possession (when it’s possible), the effect is high possession. But again, it’s the effects, not purpose.
anyone else excited how we'll look after the break? essentially 2 weeks to drill his style into the team
Not really, if the team looks good I will have nothing to complain about.
Sure you can find something