Club Sale | It’s done!

[Mr Pigeon]

Totally understandable but I'm fairly sure they will not come over here and 'rock the boat' in that manner. They will respect our country/culture just as they asked people to do in the World Cup in Qatar. That's not me defending their stance by any means I'm obviously just saying they will be well aware that things are very different in the UK and are obviously prepared to 'embrace' that to some extent, otherwise they wouldn't buy the club.

I totally understand what you mean. I'm not saying they won't, just being my normal cautionary self and writing every thought that pops into my head. Like this next bit...

I had a girlfriend for the briefest time in college whose parents were from Saudi Arabia. Dad was an engineer and I've never met a smarter person than him. The culture in their house was strange to me (he seemed authoritative almost without thinking) but there's no doubt he absolutely adored his wife and daughter because he had that proud look on his face always (plus he definitely didn't like me in the slightest, but could tell his daughter liked me so he tolerated me being in the house). It was the weirdest mishmash of culture, and I'm struggling to type it out fairly, but fair fecks to the guy, he had zero prejudices (my family on the other hand, they were cnuts about it). Her mum was also fiery and quick, which was strange since at first glance you would just assume she was a quiet soul. She just had this aura about her that screamed "I'm in charge here".

You could just tell that they were a family that would welcome a stranger into their home and let them stay for a month if they needed to, they were so warm and authentic with everything they did. The point I'm trying to make is that her parents had their culture but understood their daughter lived in another world to them, and I respected that because it made me question a lot of the things I thought I knew about the ME.

On another note, my girlfriend looked like... fecking hell... Just fecking hell, Saudi women are just... Dammit, those were the good days. Wish I had a time machine... I'm going to leave and build a time machine back in a minute....

 

[SAFMUTD]

How are PSG a bigger club than us? Because they spent insane amounts of money on big name players?

If you want us to aspire to be fecking PSG then I can see why you are all for the qataris taking over.

Maybe they can appoint Woodward as DoF.

They've been comfortably a better team than us in the last decade. We're a bigger club because heritage but at this moment there's a huge gap in quality between us and them.

Anyway I'm all in for the Qataris. Welcome them, they're money and their ambition.

 

[Mockney]

I can’t believe we’re 500 pages deep and still doing the “but you’ve owned an iPhone and bought a $45 Moana plushy at Disneyland!” argument.

Untill Joe Biden instructs the NSA to enter the bidding as a psyop to spy on our South American players, the notion that anyone morally opposed to the frankly mental idea of a Royal Family half the world away using the sovereign wealth of their country to buy a Manchester based football club for bragging rights has to stand up and denounce the West on the 4th plinth at Trafalgar Square, should be treated with the disingenuous contempt it deserves IMO.

I’ll denounce the West on my own time, thankyou (4:30ish, every other weekday in the CE forum, if you’re interested - and twice on Twitter) but not to obfuscate the objective insanity of state ownership of football clubs

 

[cpresc]

Does anyone here have a legit understanding of how much transfer kitty we could have if (a) the budget was unlimited and (b) we abided by FFP?

Mbappe, Osimhem and Bellingham please haha

 

[sullydnl]

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Would certainly be interesting if they made a bid given the success they've had in a relatively short space of time with F1. A quick google tells me that Forbes named them the most valuable sports empire in the world this year.

 

[tenpoless]

To be fair a lot of the Qatari royal family were educated at Sandhurst and their laws don't really seem to have been impacted by it. Qatar is one of the few nations left where some women need their male "guardian" to give them permission to find a job, and that just puzzles me.

I'm definitely not saying that the guy won't understand any of this. He'll be highly educated. But, politically at least, there's going to be a lot of questions asked about Qatari laws and he'll need to do a fair bit to ease tensions.

The people who were educated abroad, know the differences between the country where they studied at and their own (even Kim Jong Un knows how much of a weirdo they look from the outside, he was educated in the US). But of course they'd still keep their roots as majority of their people are used to it, the culture won't change much and for a massive change to happen it will take decades or even a century. It's the same way if a take over happen - they won't change things around the club when it comes into cultural stuffs because most of the people (including the fans) surrounding United won't automatically turn into a Qatari or support their views. It can happen if they take over a company and move it to Qatar and employ locals but not possible for a football club abroad with millions of fans. Because by the end of the day cultures are about the place and the people.

However it does make me question myself, I want Sir Jimmy instead of a state but he will put the club back into debt which shows a lack of commitment. The Qatari will help us to be better financially but some of their views I don't agree with...and here I thought Glazers decided to sell was gonna end the misery but now I'm more confused than ever.

 

[Bert_]

They've been comfortably a better team than us in the last decade. We're a bigger club because heritage but at this moment there's a huge gap in quality between us and them.

Anyway I'm all in for the Qataris. Welcome them, they're money and their ambition.

There is a difference between better team and bigger club.

Anyway, what has this better team achieved in the last decade besides winning a one horse race (lost a few of them too)? Despite all the money they've paid and the big names they have.

 

[Tarrou]

That’s the problem. I do see the problem. You don’t. You seem to think INEOS will solve everything. Funny how this Qatari never bided for Chelsea unlike Jim.

What? On what planet is this a logical response to what I wrote?

You really struggle to debate your ideas on the most basic level

 

[Berbaclass]

I totally understand what you mean. I'm not saying they won't, just being my normal cautionary self and writing every thought that pops into my head. Like this next bit...

I had a girlfriend for the briefest time in college whose parents were from Saudi Arabia. Dad was an engineer and I've never met a smarter person than him. The culture in their house was strange to me (he seemed authoritative almost without thinking) but there's no doubt he absolutely adored his wife and daughter because he had that proud look on his face always (plus he definitely didn't like me in the slightest, but could tell his daughter liked me so he tolerated me being in the house). It was the weirdest mishmash of culture, and I'm struggling to type it out fairly, but fair fecks to the guy, he had zero prejudices (my family on the other hand, they were cnuts about it). Her mum was also fiery and quick, which was strange since at first glance you would just assume she was a quiet soul. She just had this aura about her that screamed "I'm in charge here".

You could just tell that they were a family that would welcome a stranger into their home and let them stay for a month if they needed to, they were so warm and authentic with everything they did. The point I'm trying to make is that her parents had their culture but understood their daughter lived in another world to them, and I respected that because it made me question a lot of the things I thought I knew about the ME.

On another note, my girlfriend looked like... fecking hell... Just fecking hell, Saudi women are just... Dammit, those were the good days. Wish I had a time machine... I'm going to leave and build a time machine back in a minute....

Insightful.

 

[Orion.]

Manchester United as a legitimate club, and football in general, dies if the Qataris get their hands on it.

All the weirdos salivating at the prospect of becoming a Sharia state’s plaything should just go and support the Paris based Qatar Mercenaries FC directly.

United are on the right track now Woodward is gone and Ten Hag is building something special - the club doesn’t need blood money, just a bit of shrewd investment and the capacity to invest all its own revenues into regenerating it’s infrastructure.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Insightful.

Just trying to add a bit of humour at the end there because this thread is already gone to shit and it's going to get a lot worse. There are no easy answers.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Athletic reports that Qatar bid is from “personal wealth”. Almost every outlet has mentioned QIA and QSI have no role to play at the moment. Is it really a state sponsored bid? Seems a lot of confusion is going around with Qatar bid

 

[Berbaclass]

Just trying to add a bit of humour at the end there because this thread is already gone to shit and it's going to get a lot worse. There are no easy answers.

It's just good to hear a positive angle. They are not all bad people.

 

[tenpoless]

Athletic reports that Qatar bid is from “personal wealth”. Almost every outlet has mentioned QIA and QSI have no role to play at the moment. Is it really a state sponsored bid? Seems a lot of confusion is going around with Qatar bid

According to the rumors, the guy who wants to buy United doesn't have enough money to do so. Therefore people automatically assume it must be the state behind it and that he is just the face.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Manchester United as a legitimate club, and football in general, dies if the Qataris get their hands on it.

All the weirdos salivating at the prospect of becoming a Sharia state’s plaything should just go and support the Paris based Qatar Mercenaries FC directly.

United are on the right track now Woodward is gone and Ten Hag is building something special - the club doesn’t need blood money, just a bit of shrewd investment and the capacity to invest all its own revenues into regenerating it’s infrastructure.

The club doesn’t actually need anybody’s money but it’s own. Not that of the crimes of a state of that of a corporation.

 

[pratyush_utd]

According to the rumors, the guy who wants to buy United doesn't have enough money to do so. Therefore people automatically assume it must be the state behind it and that he is just the face.

Then how will he provide proof of funds? Once he does that, Qatar ownership will become clear right?

 

[SAFMUTD]

There is a difference between better team and bigger club.

Anyway, what has this better team achieved in the last decade besides winning a one horse race (lost a few of them too)? Despite all the money they've paid and the big names they have.

Well exactly that, they made the ligue 1 a one horse race. It wasn't like that before they arrived to PSG. Plus they managed a UCL final, all this with a small time club from ligue 1.

A ligue 1 team has never been as competitive as PSG has been, I know they haven't won the UCL but from PSG starting point to their reality right now it's a huge gap. Imagine what they can do with us, with the money we generate and the spending that would mean, the names we could attract. We would become a true force, again, in football.

 

[Bert_]

According to the rumors, the guy who wants to buy United doesn't have enough money to do so. Therefore people automatically assume it must be the state behind it and that he is just the face.

He's a member if the Qatari royal family and former Prime Minister of Qatar

 

[Wibble]

So I'm guessing you're going to be all over the Police reform, Black Lives Matter and gun control when we have the World Cup in North America next, right? Nice! And, yes, they are the same thing.

I'm all over those right now. But no, it isn't the same thing. Most places in the ME have little or no.interest in change when it comes to human rights. Particularly when it comes to women, gay people and LGBTI+.people. The US is screwed in many ways but there are efforts to improve the things you mention even though most issues are already illegal. With guns that is something that might put me off going but not something that would stop them hosting an event imo.

In any event the US government isn't bidding to buy United.

 

[city-puma]

No. I’m reading it for what it is. It’s the people saying “INEOS will pay the debt” that are jumping to the most extreme positive conclusions. We heard US investors early on, and now we have Ratcliff with ‘Wallstreet backers’ are people so naive they don’t know what Wallstreet is about?

Where are all the the questions.
1) How much is being borrowed?
2) What are the repayment and interest terms, how long will the debt last?
3) How much will come from United’s revenue
4) What about the stadium
5) future transfers?

That’s the problem. I do see the problem. You don’t. You seem to think INEOS will solve everything. Funny how this Qatari never bided for Chelsea unlike Jim.

I think Ineos has incentive to take debt by themselves.
their annual revenue is 60 billion euro with 2 billion net income. The debt will give them tax deductions. So, even taking 5bil debts is nothing for them.
gs’ involvement looks like helping to unwind the interest rate swap which was entered to service the debt at the moment. How much debt gs will lend to Ineos is what we need to find out. Gs could also help Ineos issue corp bonds rather than directly lending.Many possibilities. The real question is how much commitment Ratchcliff will put to stadium and infrastructure.

 

[sullydnl]

Athletic reports that Qatar bid is from “personal wealth”. Almost every outlet has mentioned QIA and QSI have no role to play at the moment. Is it really a state sponsored bid? Seems a lot of confusion is going around with Qatar bid

Someone would need to be quite naive (to use a kind word) to think a bid fronted by a member of the extended royal family, son of a former PM and Chairman of the Qatar Islamic Bank (whose main shareholder is the QIA) is actually financed from personal wealth and not state-backed. But then I'm sure there are still Newcastle fans trying to claim PIF isn't a proxy for the Saudi government either.

But in reality it doesn't really matter if people generally don't believe the fiction, as long as it passes whatever official tests are in place.

 

[AlPistacho]

I think Ineos has incentive to take debt by themselves.
their annual revenue is 60 billion euro with 2 billion net income. The debt will give them tax deductions. So, even taking 5bil debts is nothing for them.
gs’ involvement looks like helping to unwind the interest rate swap which was entered to survive the debt at the moment. How much debt gs will lend to Ineos is what we need to find out. Gs could also help Ineos issue corp bonds rather than directly lending.Many possibilities. The real question is how much commitment Ratchcliff will put to stadium and infrastructure.

I think all the positives would have been leaked. So far only positives, is the thing he can’t legally do, and that’s put any debt used to buy the club on the club’s name.

 

[Bert_]

Well exactly that, they made the ligue 1 a one horse race. It wasn't like that before they arrived to PSG. Plus they managed a UCL final, all this with a small time club from ligue 1.

A ligue 1 team has never been as competitive as PSG has been, I know they haven't won the UCL but from PSG starting point to their reality right now it's a huge gap. Imagine what they can do with us, with the money we generate and the spending that would mean, the names we could attract. We would become a true force, again, in football.

French teams used to be regulars in the CL knockouts. Marsailles have a CL.

They have spent loads, got big name stars and yet still can't compete at the highest level. Because buying the latest shiny toy doesn't equal success.

I said this in another thread but ten hag is doing wonders for us under the Glazers. SAF won loads under the Glazers. We don't need a sugar daddy. We just need someone competent who isn't milking us dry and we will be successful. We don't need to whore ourselves out to do it.

 

[tenpoless]

Then how will he provide proof of funds? Once he does that, Qatar ownership will become clear right?

He's a member if the Qatari royal family and former Prime Minister of Qatar

Yeah he is a former PM and according to Forbes he's worth 1.3 billion USD. That's where people got the idea it could be QSI/QIA helping him so it's not "personal wealth".
I think we'll have more information soon considering the amount of coverage this is getting but as for the truth, we might never know. I mean he can easily claim he's worth more than what Forbes thinks.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

It's just good to hear a positive angle. They are not all bad people.

The problem is that it's anecdotal, and it's not even anecdotal about Qataris. And already I'm worried that some cnut is going to accuse me of being a cnut like earlier today - because everyone is so fired up right now. Some random arsehole who definitely doesn't know who I am accusing me of something that, if they did know me, they wouldn't say. But they decided that they had a right to do it because tensions are high and enemies are seemingly everywhere. I don't blame them despite it personally upsetting me for a while.

And what is it about ultimately? There's people all over the site who are playing a game of "I can be more outraged than you, look at how morally upstanding I am." But at the same time, feck it, I agree with them. I agree that the whole situation is a load of shit. But I can't call them out for clearly being phoney because it distracts attention away from the core message they're pointing out. I agree with the core message, I just don't believe they themselves really stand by it for anything other than internet points and the need for an internet fight.

And it's going to get worse. Even after I typed what I did I thought "there will be people who will say I'm lying and that I'm also the enemy". Because that's where we are right now. Nothing can be taken at face value anymore, especially our club being bought by a regime that treat women as second class citizens, foreign workers as expendable and the LGBTQ+ community as criminals. One of my kids would be thrown in jail if they found out they were trans and another would be thrown in also if she was dating her last partner at the time. Yet some cnut earlier clearly thought I wanted the women's team to play in a ditch so the men could get the shiny new stadium. But that's because everyone is justifiably sensitive about the situation right now. Except that particular poster who was just being a cnut (I won't name names but I really, really want to because I'm still upset about it, but what would it do other than cause more problems?)

The whole situation is bullshit, mate. Maybe it's time for bed....

 

[AlPistacho]

What? On what planet is this a logical response to what I wrote?

You really struggle to debate your ideas on the most basic level

How can I debate when you’re just giving Ratcliffe a green pass. £5b debt? Ohhh INEOS will cover that no biggie. People don’t seem to realise that INEOS has investors and bond holders.

Or they assume INEOS will continue to make the same money? Not realising the industry it is in and extreme price volatility of things like petrol. I wonder how many people have actually checked to see what INEOS makes and it’s core ingredients?

Considering most people assume Qatar gets most it’s money from oil when it actually makes most its money from gas, I think not many people would have bothered checking on INEOS.

 

[city-puma]

I think all the positives would have been leaked. So far only positives, is the thing he can’t legally do, and that’s put any debt used to buy the club on the club’s name.

The words from Ratcliffe’s team are vague and uninspiring, indeed. We will know more tomorrow.
The media doesn’t know more apparently. They said “Wall Street backed” but so far only Goldman was mentioned.
Ratcliffe might have to take a very conservative, careful tactic at the moment because he is competing against state-backed bid. In contrast, Qatari bid is trying to dominate from the beginning. Tomorrow, maybe we will hear Saudi Arabia lead

 

[RazorOz]

Jim 5b overpriced buyout or Glazers 800m debt? Definitely Glazers ownership is better. Manutd is not worth more than 2.5b as stadium renovation, inflated squad investment to just be in CL places are needed in future. If United is sold for anything more than 2.5b, the owner should be someone who loves United and can afford money to treat it as a charity, not any Jim.

Utd have to be worth way more than that. Chelsea went for £4.25bn last summer, they need a new stadium, and also needed huge squad investment, already at 600m and counting, so no way is Utd worth £2.5bn, even the share price valuation is higher than that.

 

[Water Melon]

Why? So you can point and laugh and mock them for your own selfish amusement?

This post is cnutish and pathetic.

F**k

My post will just show who will stick to their guns after claiming to do so.

 

[SAFMUTD]

French teams used to be regulars in the CL knockouts. Marsailles have a CL.

They have spent loads, got big name stars and yet still can't compete at the highest level. Because buying the latest shiny toy doesn't equal success.

I said this in another thread but ten hag is doing wonders for us under the Glazers. SAF won loads under the Glazers. We don't need a sugar daddy. We just need someone competent who isn't milking us dry and we will be successful. We don't need to whore ourselves out to do it.

We are not whoring ourselves, if ten Hag is capable of doing it just imagine the potential with ten Hag under Qatar.

 

[Berbaclass]

The problem is that it's anecdotal, and it's not even anecdotal about Qataris. And already I'm worried that some cnut is going to accuse me of being a cnut like earlier today - because everyone is so fired up right now. Some random arsehole who definitely doesn't know who I am accusing me of something that, if they did know me, they wouldn't say. But they decided that they had a right to do it because tensions are high and enemies are seemingly everywhere. I don't blame them despite it personally upsetting me for a while.

And what is it about ultimately? There's people all over the site who are playing a game of "I can be more outraged than you, look at how morally upstanding I am." But at the same time, feck it, I agree with them. I agree that the whole situation is a load of shit. But I can't call them out for clearly being phoney because it distracts attention away from the core message they're pointing out. I agree with the core message, I just don't believe they themselves really stand by it for anything other than internet points and the need for an internet fight.

And it's going to get worse. Even after I typed what I did I thought "there will be people who will say I'm lying and that I'm also the enemy". Because that's where we are right now. Nothing can be taken at face value anymore, especially our club being bought by a regime that treat women as second class citizens, foreign workers as expendable and the LGBTQ+ community as criminals. One of my kids would be thrown in jail if they found out they were trans and another would be thrown in also if she was dating her last partner at the time. Yet some cnut earlier clearly thought I wanted the women's team to play in a ditch so the men could get the shiny new stadium. But that's because everyone is justifiably sensitive about the situation right now. Except that particular poster who was just being a cnut (I won't name names but I really, really want to because I'm still upset about it, but what would it do other than cause more problems?)

The whole situation is bullshit, mate. Maybe it's time for bed....

Agree fully, I hope things improve but I also doubt that they will. Time will tell I guess!

 

[Wibble]

According to the rumors, the guy who wants to buy United doesn't have enough money to do so. Therefore people automatically assume it must be the state behind it and that he is just the face.

Of course it is the state. This how they operate.

 

[AlPistacho]

French teams used to be regulars in the CL knockouts. Marsailles have a CL.

They have spent loads, got big name stars and yet still can't compete at the highest level. Because buying the latest shiny toy doesn't equal success.

I said this in another thread but ten hag is doing wonders for us under the Glazers. SAF won loads under the Glazers. We don't need a sugar daddy. We just need someone competent who isn't milking us dry and we will be successful. We don't need to whore ourselves out to do it.

Well under Ratcliffe we will be pimped out whores

 

[city-puma]

How can I debate when you’re just giving Ratcliffe a green pass. £5b debt? Ohhh INEOS will cover that no biggie. People don’t seem to realise that INEOS has investors and bond holders.

Or they assume INEOS will continue to make the same money? Not realising the industry it is in and extreme price volatility of things like petrol. I wonder how many people have actually checked to see what INEOS makes and it’s core ingredients?

Considering most people assume Qatar gets most it’s money from oil when it actually makes most its money from gas, I think not many people would have bothered checking on INEOS.

Just checked some info. Ineos by the end of 2021, has debt totaled 4.48 billion. Most are callable bonds. Healthy so far as it seems.

 

[Bert_]

We are not whoring ourselves, if ten Hag is capable of doing it just imagine the potential with ten Hag under Qatar.

And what if they decide they decide they are going to buy a load of big name players ten hag doesn't want or need? They will absolutely do this by the way. They are buying the club as a PR exercise and want the biggest names associated with United and them by proxy. The only hope is they buy big names that Ten Hag can work with and hope they don't throw their toys out of the pram if they get benched or subbed early. If not then we will quickly become a shambles and Ten Hag probably walks or is sacked for not sharing the new owners "vision".

 

[RedPed]

I'm all over those right now. But no, it isn't the same thing. Most places in the ME have little or no.interest in change when it comes to human rights. Particularly when it comes to women, gay people and LGBTI+.people. The US is screwed in many ways but there are efforts to improve the things you mention even though most issues are already illegal. With guns that is something that might put me off going but not something that would stop them hosting an event imo.

In any event the US government isn't bidding to buy United.

The US government not buying United is completely irrelevant. I don't know why people keep throwing that argument around. It wasn't even an issue when everyone was against Qatar hosting the World Cup. Why do people keep saying that Qatar is buying United anyways? That's just BS. And seriously when you're talking about any kind of money at that level, it's all going to stink, whether it's from owners running sweatshops in China, bypassing all kinds of tax laws that regular people have to comply with, non-ethical companies, state-sponsored....they're all just different kinds of shit as I've said before. The moral gymnastics is just incredible.

 

[Bert_]

Well under Ratcliffe we will be pimped out whores

Radcliffe is the least worst option for me of the realistic bidders (if he can be classed as realistic). We have a better chance of him staying out of the footballing side of things and letting Ten Hag do his thing without interference.

And, if it all goes belly up then at least he will be more likely to sell up. If Qatar get us then we are theirs forever more, regardless of how it's working out.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Yeah he is a former PM and according to Forbes he's worth 1.3 billion USD. That's where people got the idea it could be QSI/QIA helping him so it's not "personal wealth".
I think we'll have more information soon considering the amount of coverage this is getting but as for the truth, we might never know. I mean he can easily claim he's worth more than what Forbes thinks.

Yeah to be honest its very difficult to find out how much an individual of royal family is worth.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Are people still thinking that the Qataris are spending upwards of 5bn just to listen to everything ETH says.

 

[city-puma]

Remember during the World Cup Saudi Arabia clearly said they want investors to take over Manutd. By now, only telegraph reported they joined the race. Interesting.