I hope that the case mate!
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
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The independence of the judiciary has been undermined by the current government by holding a sword over their heads with the consultation on Judicial Review.
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I wasn’t saying that they do? I’m literally just trying to get info on all this as usually the CAF is a safe place with posters willing to inform people on issues they don’t know as much about.
From the sounds of things she should be tried in the UK for terrorism or some form of it but being a minor at the time might make the sentencing a bit weak?
Makes enough sense from that angle.
Wouldn’t want her back but can understand the UK has a responsibility to try her.
Rightly or wrongly I do think there’s certain situations where what you do removes certain rights or at least should do. But because she was legally a minor she is technically a victim of grooming and despite her having supported a reprehensible group she would have been groomed at an impressionable age to join.
Hard to think of her for some this way but she’s a victim and also a criminal in my eyes.
She's our problem. We should have to deal with her.
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Pretty much how I feel.
Can't we just stick her on an island like we did with Napoleon?
It also underscores the arbitrariness of the deprivation of citizenship powers.
SB was born here, but because she has a Bangladeshi father, she can be stripped of her UK citizenship on the basis that because she was under 21, she would be theoretically able to apply for citizenship there.
Meanwhile, because the killers of Jamie Bulger were born here, and had British parents, they remain British, and the taxpayer has been contributing to their new identities, lives and detention for 30 years.
They always try to interpret the law as they think the government intended it in these cases. They nor the public want her back so I'd say it's almost certain she won't be coming back.
I'd say she doesn't expect to be let back in either. Half the point of her media campaign is to ensure she doesn't wind up in a ditch somewhere.
What happens if she rocks up on a dinghy in Dover?
The UK's hospitals would be filled with stroke victims overnight
That is the fundamental role of the judiciary.
I’ve actually been surprised. Can’t really judge people by their online cover, but seen a fair few comments on Twitter by people who I’d guess are not at either political extremes who are just judging her as a child.
My opinion about the grooming aspect. While no expert by any means. I think we need to start with the acceptance that every bad/evil person was once a child. It’s also possible for someone already bad to be groomed. Then they get into something they enjoy and start rising the ranks.
I don’t know what the case is with Shamima or what her mind is like. Based on how much of a leader she apparently became, people should consider the possibility that her own personality outweighs the grooming aspect which no doubt played a role in her going. But once she was there, she might have been amongst similar minds.
Surely this is all about the government 'making an example' to try to put off others who may, in the future, be tempted to follow the same/similar path.
I think most people agree that at 15 years old, effective and considered decision -making is not part of many teenagers skill sets; however it would appear that Shamina Begun even when she was faced with reality continued in the life she had chosen, regrets only seemed to have entered her mind when IS began to fall apart.
Eventually the Government will have to take a decision based either on human rights, as many consider it should, or because it has strung out the agony, long enough and has shown its determination not to roll over on such matters.
The next stage then when her citizenship is restored, will be deciding what to do with her?
I think most people agree that at 15 years old, effective and considered decision -making is not part of many teenagers skill sets; however it would appear that Shamina Begun even when she was faced with reality continued in the life she had chosen, regrets only seemed to have entered her mind when IS began to fall apart.
Eventually the Government will have to take a decision based either on human rights, as many consider it should, or because it has strung out the agony, long enough and has shown its determination not to roll over on such matters.
The next stage then when her citizenship is restored, will be deciding what to do with her?
Don’t get why if she is no longer a British citizen she‘s still receiving legal aid?
Absolute gravy train for her legal team.
Absolute gravy train for her legal team.
Because there's plenty of people willing to fund human rights causes.
Who? …British tax payer?
oh yeah, all those legal aid lawyers on the gravy train
My guess is its exceptional case funding which means around £50-70ph recovery for the business with overheads, admin staff etc to pay out of it..
I listened to the radio programme about her during the weekend (recovering from my 2nd knee replacement surgery). And it was pretty clear that she was far more aware of what was going on with ISIS than she had tried to make out.
Moreover, she had repeatedly lied about knowing anything about the Egyptian family she had been staying with.
And she admitted that she had paid her own travel costs to join IS and was not really trafficked. She also admitted that she had helped recruit a number of young girls and had a clear understanding of the atrocities that were going on.
It is difficult for me to conceive that she does not pose a risk to the security of the UK and so I agree with the decision.
The argument around her human rights is valid but the courts will also have to consider the human rights of those she'll come into contact with if allowed back into the country.
A lawyer charging £50-70 an hour?
Disgraceful, cowardly decision and yet another example of the government seeing itself above the law and happy to ditch its responsibilities to its citizens.
Global Britain, we'll look to renege on international agreements we've just signed, happy to flout international law and will dump our problems on other countries when it suits us politically.
Their line that Begum 'went into it with her eyes open' as a child is dangerous. Maybe Gary Glitter will try using that as a defence next time he's in court.
Global Britain, we'll look to renege on international agreements we've just signed, happy to flout international law and will dump our problems on other countries when it suits us politically.
Their line that Begum 'went into it with her eyes open' as a child is dangerous. Maybe Gary Glitter will try using that as a defence next time he's in court.
You know people have run out of arguments when they start talking about how much her lawyers are making.
Maybe syria can start stripping the nationality off of their criminals and dump them in some british island.
Maybe syria can start stripping the nationality off of their criminals and dump them in some british island.
What human rights would that be?
That's legal aid prescribed rates.
I work in Legal Aid for a Human Rights department, though we don't do immigration
You're looking at £50 to £75 for solicitors, a bit more for barristers, but not the gravy train sums..
If I was charged with representing a neighbour of SB, I would argue Article 27 & 28 Universal Declaration on Human Rights were breached. Article 2 and Protocol 1 article 1 could also be argued. This is just off the top of my head.
Fair enough, though at last count my solicitor/lawyer was charging £280 an hour +vat
As do ours when the client is paying privately, or even more if working on a Conditional Fee Agreement etc.
We're talking about legal aid under non-inquest exceptional case funding which you brought up because she is funded by legal aid.
Most law firms don't do legal aid and those that do have very narrow margins with legal aid or are subsidised by other funding.
Your misinterpretation of the 'gravy train' is why the rates haven't gone up since 1992 and went down by 10% in 2012
That's a middle-of-the-road fee. As a Junior Barrister, my fees would be around £100-£200 P/H reaching £500-£700 P/H as a senior. Bear in mind that there are no set fees outside of legal aid, excluding fixed fee arangments etc...
I assume I'm misunderstanding, because surely you're not referring to this? https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
Article 27 said:
Article 28 said:
Thanks for explaining ….good to know
Apologies. Article 2 and Protocol 1 Article 1 of HRA 1998.
I would argue Article 27 and 28 UDHR as being denied the right out of fear.
Google will not give you much depth to any argument in any of the articles.
If someone has Begum as a neighbour, then either she hasn't been found guilty of a crime, or she has finished serving her sentence. You're not being serious, this is a weird topic to wum about.
I think the grooming aspect is being seen for what it is, a cynical attempt by her legal team to curry favour.
The argument for her Citizenship is based on her still being a threat.
Edit: Neighbour, in a legal context, are people who stay in your locality, people that are affected by your actions. Not necessarily the people that live next door to you.
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Serious money, though surprised.
Would you charge those fees if representing someone on legal aid ….or is that a different type of Barrister?
No, legal aid fees work around set parameters. It's difficult to state an exact fee as there are Lawyers that will only do Legal Aid work and other private Lawyers that will do certain cases. Generally, the fees are governed by The Civil Legal Aid (Remuneration) Regulations 2013.
Privately is it good money but the hours are very long and the work is very stressful. For example, receiving paperwork from the CPS at midnight and being due in court at 9 am. It is not how it looks on the TV.
Was @sun_tzu banned? Thank goodness.
Interesting. BTW trust I’m not being charged for this information
My Dutch stepgrandmother was a Barrister though I have no idea about her earnings other than she lived a comfortable life.
Pro Bono for all Cafe members
Thank god for that!Pro Bono for all Cafe members