Club Sale | It’s done!

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sglowrider

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I find it odd that Jassim didn't show up, considering he's supposedly a massive United fan

you'd think he'd be excited to be involved and be there

and to all the business experts about to tell me this isn't how billionaire's do business, spare me
I think the expectation is that this stage/visit is for the domain knowledge folks. Watch the United presentation, ask questions, kick the tires and get the relevant information (financial, legal, strategic) in order to go back, analyse and crunch some numbers with an actual firm offer. After that, the decision-maker will be more involved when trying to close the deal.

I am surprised that Ratcliffe brought the entire C-suite team for this heavy-lifting phase of the process. It may indicate that Jassim is further down the track than Ratcliffe.
 
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sglowrider

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If this fan voting thing is true then we are totally sunk. Why don't these idiots realise a team cannot be bought and sold. It is city buying the league that makes them think it is easy. City completely and utterly copied Barcelona's infrastructure, down to the personnel, top to bottom. If they didn't spend 3bn to copy another successful club they wouldn't have won a thing. You need a model
You do always react to everything on Twitter? Its clearly a WUM.

Besides, do you think ETH will allow it? He has the final say on a transfer deal.
 

MackRobinson

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There is no evidence of that yet.

We will only know when they announce the members of the 92 Foundation -- so various individuals contributing but my money will be on Qatari commercial entities contributing.
Isn't he worth only 1.5b? How can he afford to buy the club?

Almost certainly if the club is being bought for £5-6b without borrowing.
This is what I thought.
 

Adnan

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You do always react to everything on Twitter? Its clearly a WUM.

Besides, do you think ETH will allow it? He has the final say on a transfer deal.
That WUM twitter handle has definitely caught a few.

And to suggest that City copied Barca's footballing structure by bringing in one guy, is also naive.
 

sglowrider

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Isn't he worth only 1.5b? How can he afford to buy the club?


This is what I thought.
The foundation. I suspect it's a special purpose vehicle (SPV) -- there will be other contributors to this 'foundation' -- and I think it will be more commercially focused than we think.
 

sglowrider

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That WUM twitter handle has definitely caught a few.

And to suggest that City copied Barca's footballing structure by bringing in one guy, is also naive.
Wonder if that would also include the outsourcing of a ''ref expertise'' contract?
 

MackRobinson

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The foundation. I suspect it's a special purpose vehicle (SPV) -- there will be other contributors to this 'foundation' -- and I think it will be more commercially focused than we think.
But who is funding the foundation if his personal wealth isn't enough to cover the purchase price? Why the excitement if he's not going to tap into the resources of the state? It seems reasonable to assume it will be state funded unless I'm missing something.
 

sglowrider

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But who is funding the foundation if his personal wealth isn't enough to cover the purchase price? Why the excitement if he's not going to tap into the resources of the state? It seems reasonable to assume it will be state funded unless I'm missing something.
The whole sport-washing phase of a nation's growth won't last forever --- otherwise by definition its not sustainable and therefore a failure. They will have to shift towards a more economically strategic phase at some point. I will assume that the Qatar WC is the pinnacle of their sport washing project. They will need more sustainable projects going forward and projects that are more self-sustaining.

Having said that the partners for this 'foundation' in all likelihood will be the government-linked companies who will have some expectation of financial returns in the medium and long run. Look at Lego -- from toys for kids, they leveraged the brand into building Legoland, projects for schools etc.

Example -- part of the Qatari delegation were Media & telcom, practice guys. If you look at Arnold's new strategy towards increasing fan engagement, imagine what he can do with the muscle of BEin and the millions that Jassim can bring.

New business models are no longer linear or transaction. They tend to be more multi-revenue streams of an ecosystem -- look at Amazon. From selling books online to TV, grocery, and general e-commerce, the largest digital infrastructure player into a brick & clicks global player.

Obviously I maybe wrong and they are dinosaurs in the globalised digital age. But this is what I would do if given the opportunity to pitch to Jassim to diversify and reduce the risks.
 

croadyman

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What if Jassim doesn't actually have backing from the Qatari state... and it just turns out he is the Qatari Michael Knighton :lol:
No chance the state aren't involved much as I wish that was the case,however like I have said before that horse bolted in 2008
 

alexthelion

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I actually agree with all of this. The poster I was responding to said Nice was one of the reasons he wasn't keen on INEOS. If he's using Nice, might as well use Malaga.
Nice is owned by Ineos, Malaga isn't owned by Jassim. Nothing alike.
 

MackRobinson

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The whole sport-washing phase of a nation's growth won't last forever --- otherwise by definition its not sustainable and therefore a failure. They will have to shift towards a more economically strategic phase at some point. I will assume that the Qatar WC is the pinnacle of their sport washing project. They will need more sustainable projects going forward and projects that are more self-sustaining.

Having said that the partners for this 'foundation' in all likelihood will be the government-linked companies who will have some expectation of financial returns in the medium and long run. Look at Lego -- from toys for kids, they leveraged the brand into building Legoland, projects for schools etc.

New business models are no longer linear or transaction. They tend to be more multi-revenue streams of an ecosystem -- look at Amazon. From selling books online to TV, grocery, and general e-commerce, the largest digital infrastructure player into a brick & clicks global player.
I'm not disputing any of this. My question is simple: If there is no guarantee Jassim will use the financial resources of the state to fund the takeover and subsequent funds needed to invest in the club why the excitement over his bid? If it's just a consortium that happens to be owned by a Qatar national, what makes it so much more attractive than INEOS bid? Remember the narrative is they will pump all this money into the club, mainly due to the financial strength of their sovereign wealth fund.
 

sglowrider

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I'm not disputing any of this. My question is simple: If there is no guarantee Jassim will use the financial resources of the state to fund the takeover and subsequent funds needed to invest in the club why the excitement over his bid? If it's just a consortium that happens to be owned by a Qatar national, what makes it so much more attractive than INEOS bid? Remember the narrative is they will pump all this money into the club, mainly due to the financial strength of their sovereign wealth fund.
If you are looking at the medium-term and long-term sustainability of United vis a vis how football as a sport is going; you will need huge resources behind it to be relevant and competitive. INEOS as a standalone just isn't enough.
It may not be a sovereign fund involved directly, a collective of government-linked companies.
 

Mindhunter

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I'm not disputing any of this. My question is simple: If there is no guarantee Jassim will use the financial resources of the state to fund the takeover and subsequent funds needed to invest in the club why the excitement over his bid? If it's just a consortium that happens to be owned by a Qatar national, what makes it so much more attractive than INEOS bid? Remember the narrative is they will pump all this money into the club, mainly due to the financial strength of their sovereign wealth fund.
Because INEOS will need to borrow to buy us. Their whole company isn’t worth what what glazers want.

We won’t want huge investments. We need someone to clear our debts so that we can use our own money. Sky will be the limit for us if that happens.
 

MackRobinson

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If you are looking at the medium-term and long-term sustainability of United vis a vis how football as a sport is going; you will need huge resources behind it to be relevant and competitive. INEOS as a standalone just isn't enough.
Feels like we are going in circles here, but the question I keep asking relates directly to the bolded. If you're telling me that we can't assume the state's wealth won't back Jassim, why is their bid so attractive?
 

MackRobinson

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Because INEOS will need to borrow to buy us. Their whole company isn’t worth what what glazers want.

We won’t want huge investments. We need someone to clear our debts so that we can use our own money. Sky will be the limit for us if that happens.
Everything I've read says he's not rich enough to afford it, but I'm being told the bid won't necessarily be state-backed. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone responding is just ignoring the question I'm asking.
 

Tarrou

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Everything I've read says he's not rich enough to afford it, but I'm being told the bid won't necessarily be state-backed. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone responding is just ignoring the question I'm asking.
nobody can really answer this, because the information isn’t available anywhere

it’s funny that everyone looks at Ineos and Jim as the poor ones here when they have way more provable wealth
 

MackRobinson

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A question that isn't getting nearly enough attention it deserves.
Personally, I don't understand the giddiness with the Qatar bid, given this huge question mark. What is even weirder is nobody seems to care, but the INEOS bid is getting slated for their press release. Confusing.
 

Raoul

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Personally, I don't understand the giddiness with the Qatar bid, given this huge question mark. What is even weirder is nobody seems to care, but the INEOS bid is getting slated for their press release. Confusing.
Needless to say, irrespective of who buys United, there will be lingering discontent among various subsections.
 

Ottawa MLS Fan

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????

They say they want to buy 100%, but it's obvious that means two (or more) separate transactions; buy the Glazers portion and then the listed portion. Any figures mentioned now will be to buy out the Glazers (same as Jimbo).
I believe that all figures being mentioned are the valuation for the whole club. The Glazer’s would walk away with 69% of whatever the final figure ends up being. The buyer would then have the option to buy up enough of the remaining shares if they wish, with the aim to take the club private.
 

MackRobinson

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Needless to say, irrespective of who buys United, there will be lingering discontent among various subsections.
I guess the silver lining is the existing debt will be cleared and no new debt will be added to the club's balance sheet. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the cheerleading for Qatar.
 

DOTA

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Personally, I don't understand the giddiness with the Qatar bid, given this huge question mark. What is even weirder is nobody seems to care, but the INEOS bid is getting slated for their press release. Confusing.
Now I'm a cynical cnut, so perhaps I'm being too harsh here, but I do wonder if perhaps part of what's going on is that some of the people claiming not to believe this is a state backed bid actually kind of know this is a state backed bid.
 

sglowrider

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Feels like we are going in circles here, but the question I keep asking relates directly to the bolded. If you're telling me that we can't assume the state's wealth won't back Jassim, why is their bid so attractive?
Sorry watching March Madness at the moment.

I had mentioned earlier -- deep pockets to be able to compete in the long run. Football has gone from a club managed by the community to being owned by millionaires; to billionaires to super-billionaires to what I expect large conglomerates. It will be an arms race.
If we are not jumping ahead of the curve then we will be left behind. And United historically has always been ahead of the curve.
 

MackRobinson

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Now I'm a cynical cnut, so perhaps I'm being too harsh here, but I do wonder if perhaps part of what's going on is that some of the people claiming not to believe this is a state backed bid actually kind of know this is a state backed bid.
Starting to think this as well.
 

croadyman

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Now I'm a cynical cnut, so perhaps I'm being too harsh here, but I do wonder if perhaps part of what's going on is that some of the people claiming not to believe this is a state backed bid actually kind of know this is a state backed bid.
Absolutely no doubt it's a state bid
 

themanguydude

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Everything I've read says he's not rich enough to afford it, but I'm being told the bid won't necessarily be state-backed. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Everyone responding is just ignoring the question I'm asking.
Do you genuinely believe this or are just being willfully obtuse?
 

Marcus

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On a totally bizarre note, although I am not that invested as to who United's new owners are, I had a dream that Sheikh Jassim picked me and an unknown companion of mine up from the airport in a sports car which looked like a Tesla but was not. Is this a sign?
 

7even

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The whole sport-washing phase of a nation's growth won't last forever --- otherwise by definition its not sustainable and therefore a failure. They will have to shift towards a more economically strategic phase at some point. I will assume that the Qatar WC is the pinnacle of their sport washing project. They will need more sustainable projects going forward and projects that are more self-sustaining.

Having said that the partners for this 'foundation' in all likelihood will be the government-linked companies who will have some expectation of financial returns in the medium and long run. Look at Lego -- from toys for kids, they leveraged the brand into building Legoland, projects for schools etc.

Example -- part of the Qatari delegation were Media & telcom, practice guys. If you look at Arnold's new strategy towards increasing fan engagement, imagine what he can do with the muscle of BEin and the millions that Jassim can bring.

New business models are no longer linear or transaction. They tend to be more multi-revenue streams of an ecosystem -- look at Amazon. From selling books online to TV, grocery, and general e-commerce, the largest digital infrastructure player into a brick & clicks global player.

Obviously I maybe wrong and they are dinosaurs in the globalised digital age. But this is what I would do if given the opportunity to pitch to Jassim to diversify and reduce the risks.
You seems to be one of the very few who understands what this’s all about and have the ability to think a little bit outside of the box.

What the people from Qatar is doing is to buy a world wide communication and distribution channel. To have direct access to millions of people around the world is the key to build the “eco system” that you talk about.

I can’t see Sheik Jassim and his Nine Two Foundation let this opportunity to slip between their fingers because of a billion more or less at this stage. I assume that the Qatar Islamic Bank sees this as a strategic long term investment involving more than just the financial packet where the ROI lies probably more than 10-15 years away.

One of the other more visible synergy effects with making profits outside the pure ownership lies probably with the companies who they will cooperate with who also needs financing to develop their projects. The QIB give both business opportunities and help with financing. Long term profits in both ends so to speak.
 

sglowrider

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You seems to be one of the very few who understands what this’s all about and have the ability to think a little bit outside of the box.

What the people from Qatar is doing is to buy a world wide communication and distribution channel. To have direct access to millions of people around the world is the key to build the “eco system” that you talk about.

I can’t see Sheik Jassim and his Nine Two Foundation let this opportunity to slip between their fingers because of a billion more or less at this stage. I assume that the Qatar Islamic Bank sees this as a strategic long term investment involving more than just the financial packet where the ROI lies probably more than 10-15 years away.

One of the other more visible synergy effects with making profits outside the pure ownership lies probably with the companies who they will cooperate with who also needs financing to develop their projects. The QIB give both business opportunities and help with financing. Long term profits in both ends so to speak.
Several hints for me -- he will do whatever he takes to win the bid ie he has the financial resources to do it because his business model justifies it. And secondly, the fact that he wants to own 100% off the bat. That indicates that the foundation has multiple stakeholders and he cant afford to have additional shareholders outside this loop. And why especially if they are willing to pump in probably around 10 billion.
Then you look at the United app and how engaging it is nowadays.

Finally the media/telecom guys from BOA. (not one both two of them.) The composition of the two delegations also hints at their vision. Qatar's is the broader-based business model, possibly an ecosystem model.
INEOS, a pure sporting model -- a multi-club model.

Then you calculate 6billion quid by the number of United fans worldwide, 300-500 million? The potential for revenues per user is huge across multiple verses/sectors.
 
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Malone_Post

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Is Sheikh Jassim actually a real person? There seems to only be two pictures of him on the internet and they both look like stock images. Add that to him not turning up to the meeting and I’m getting red flags. Is he the actual bidder or just the stooge for a state bid?

Jim has definitely won this round of PR by being at the meetings and being filmed walking round OT and meeting fans. About time he picked up his PR game because it’s been awful so far.
 

sglowrider

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Is Sheikh Jassim actually a real person? There seems to only be two pictures of him on the internet and they both look like stock images. Add that to him not turning up to the meeting and I’m getting red flags. Is he the actual bidder or just the stooge for a state bid?

Jim has definitely won this round of PR by being at the meetings and being filmed walking round OT and meeting fans. About time he picked up his PR game because it’s been awful so far.
Thats just silly. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Are you saying that Raine Group has been hoodwinked?

 
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