[KirkDuyt]

You really didn't lie you consistently said he wasn't good enough and called him a cnut of the highest order. I fear you might've even undersold it on both parts.

I think he's a bit better than what he's currently showing if I'm being honest. It was the same here, when he's having a good game he can reach a very impressive level, but when the going gets tough he generally starts sulking and acts the way he did with Dunk.

 

[arnie_ni]

Has to score that early chance. Same against Brighton. Both games are entirely different if he takes those chances

 

[dove]

In nearly every game I have watched, the opposing winger looks more dangerous than him.

Opposing fullback usually looks more dangerous than Antony, let alone a winger.

 

[Lyng]

I think he's a bit better than what he's currently showing if I'm being honest. It was the same here, when he's having a good game he can reach a very impressive level, but when the going gets tough he generally starts sulking and acts the way he did with Dunk.

Thats my biggest issue with him. As soon as he faces the slightest bit of pressure he acts like a 5 year old child who has just been told he cant have ice cream for dinner.

 

[Cutch]

Thought he was playing really well in the first half hour when the game was quite open but once West Ham scored and sat back more he became totally ineffective and we couldn't get the ball to him at all in the second half.

 

[Borys]

My mate from Amsterdam knows him personally (both Brazilians), he always talks how he's such a nice guy and down to earth. Weird because his behaviour on the pitch and when subbed doesn't make him a likeable character.

He's an enigma for me. I thought his shooting was his only strength, now I am not sure if he's any good at it considering how many chances he misses.
I also thought his mentality is what will make him push and suceed in the end, but not so sure now. Is he getting along with the squad, apart from Fred?

Thought he was playing really well in the first half hour when the game was quite open but once West Ham scored and sat back more he became totally ineffective and we couldn't get the ball to him at all in the second half.

I thought he was doing well in initial stage of the game when we pushed them back, he even created a chance for Eriksen. Once West Ham became braver he was totally lost as he's not a counter attacking player.

 

[ZainCRse7en]

This guy looks like a carbon copy of Nicholas Pepe of Arsenal. Both expensive flops, that has only one trick - Cutting inside to shoot with their left foot. At this level, its nowhere near good enough. Both clubs have had their pants pulled down for sure.

 

[Marwood]

He looks a lot better when he's allowed to come central. Out wide he's stuck. Doesn't know what to do because he can't beat a fullback. Hasn't got the balance.

If we're moving Bruno wide for certain games it's Antony not Wout we should be playing behind the striker. Centrally it's a different ball game for him. There he definitely can turn a man, move with the ball. Things we lack in that area. Worth a try given we look clueless righ now.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

I got cooked for saying he's worse a signing than Koulibaly. I'm not even saying this to gloat, but I'm genuinely confused as to why people thought a winger from Holland should be worth a world record fee when he showed no outstanding qualities. I loathe this trend of PL teams throwing obscene money at players who do not play in a serious league. It sets a bad precedent because obscure clubs can ask for insane fees. It ruins the market for everyone because PL clubs are no longer willing to show restraint.

People tell me he is young and can still improve, but his skill set is not replicable in the Premier League. In nearly every game I have watched, the opposing winger looks more dangerous than him. Plus, what exactly is he going to improve with age? I mean, yes, he might improve on his decision-making, but he'll never improve on his ability to create separation from defenders.

Actually I can recall when we first signed him, our subreddit r/reddevils posted a scouting report that had come from our own scouts.
The report mentioned that United had been following him as far back as when he was at São Paulo FC and the scout/s had serious misgivings about whether he could adapt to the Premier League. The report highlighted that only a very small proportion of his career goals had come using right foot, and that his complete inability to use his right foot would likely mean he would struggle to adapt to the premier league and I think I recall that the report had advised against signing him.
I'm no expert on this but I have read that it is extremely difficult for someone his age to improve his weak foot, so I think your assessment will end up being spot-on. That is he will probably be able to improve his reading of the game as he gets older, but many of his technical limitations will probably remain.

I have seen other people say this on this thread already but it is extremely stupid to allow a new manager such latitude when it comes to making new signings, but at this club stupidity is the norm.
There were already early warning signs about Ten Hag's judgement about new signings as he pushed very hard for us to bring in Sergiño Dest who had flopped at Barca and has been
dreadful at Milan this season and has barely gotten any minutes there.
Like a lot of managers, he only goes for players that he has worked with before or is familiar with and considering he comes from a league that is very weak, then using his recommendations is very risky.
So far, only Martinez looks to be worth the money we paid for out of his recommendations.

The reality is that if Jurgen Klopp had been in charge of recruitment at Liverpool, they would have signed Gotze and Brandt instead of Mane and Salah, and in all likelihood, wouldn't have won the CL and EPL. Instead, they had a competent DoF and pretty good recruitment strategy that meant that they didn't have to rely on their manager to make signings and were able to veto him when they felt it was appropriate.

 

[Oranges038]

Fortunately he's still young and ETH and staff can start diversifying his game a bit to keep the opposition guessing more next year. It will also make him doubly effective by attacking in a variety of different ways, instead of the usual one.

It's his first season and he's basically been a one man attack on the right trying to do everything himself, so he just consistently tries doing the one thing he knows might work.

I think he needs players around him to make runs and space and options for him to create more. A new right back down his side that can actually offer something in attack and a striker that offers something resembling movement around the box.

 

[Lyng]

It's his first season and he's basically been a one man attack on the right trying to do everything himself, so he just consistently tries doing the one thing he knows might work.

I think he needs players around him to make runs and space and options for him to create more. A new right back down his side that can actually offer something in attack and a striker that offers something resembling movement around the box.

The issue is not him not trying, the issue is that he simply isnt effective enough. He cannot beat a man consistently and even worse he often makes the wrong choice and simply lets of a shot that goes nowhere instead of playing a pass.
I dont see what he brings that makes him good enough to be our starting right winger in the future.

 

[Borys]

It's his first season and he's basically been a one man attack on the right trying to do everything himself, so he just consistently tries doing the one thing he knows might work.

I think he needs players around him to make runs and space and options for him to create more. A new right back down his side that can actually offer something in attack and a striker that offers something resembling movement around the box.

In my humble opinion Antony will benefit the least from getting better players around him (compared to Bruno, Sancho, Eriksen etc). Simply because I have not seen anything from his that would suggest he's a creative player / good passer. He's in 5th percentile on expected assists. His numbers transfer to 1 assist expected in 25 games (!). He constantly ignores players in better shooting positions as well.

He looks a lot better when he's allowed to come central. Out wide he's stuck. Doesn't know what to do because he can't beat a fullback. Hasn't got the balance.

If we're moving Bruno wide for certain games it's Antony not Wout we should be playing behind the striker. Centrally it's a different ball game for him. There he definitely can turn a man, move with the ball. Things we lack in that area. Worth a try given we look clueless righ now.

If that is the case (and I don't agree we should be switching Bruno and Antony positions), then Amad is surely taking this spot next season.

 

[lsd]

The issue is not him not trying, the issue is that he simply isnt effective enough. He cannot beat a man consistently and even worse he often makes the wrong choice and simply lets of a shot that goes nowhere instead of playing a pass.
I dont see what he brings that makes him good enough to be our starting right winger in the future.

It's the same excuse people used for Maguire. If he had better players around him we could carry him and he might look better.

The fact is you don't spend nearly 90 million on a player who doesn't improve your squad and who you then have to spend a lot more on other players to try and make him look good.

Well unless your insane

 

[Marwood]

If that is the case (and I don't agree we should be switching Bruno and Antony positions), then Amad is surely taking this spot next season.

I wouldn't either but if we are shifting Bruno to the left to accommodate a player it should be Antony not Wout.

 

[Devil81]

My mate was in Amsterdam the week after we signed him. He had his United jacket on and was approached by a group of Ajax fans.

He said they were literally laughing their heads off at how much they'd milked us for. Their personal valuation was in the region of 25 million.

That says a lot, they didn't even rate him that highly.

 

[Lyng]

It's the same excuse people used for Maguire. If he had better players around him we could carry him and he might look better.

The fact is you don't spend nearly 90 million on a player who doesn't improve your squad and who you then have to spend a lot more on other players to try and make him look good.

Well unless your insane

Great point. Add Saka to our right wing and he would make us explosive, no matter who plays next to him.

 

[Oranges038]

The issue is not him not trying, the issue is that he simply isnt effective enough. He cannot beat a man consistently and even worse he often makes the wrong choice and simply lets of a shot that goes nowhere instead of playing a pass.
I dont see what he brings that makes him good enough to be our starting right winger in the future.

How can he be effective when he's on his own most of the time, has no support or players creating space and options with movement. So he just cuts inside and shoots or turns and passes it back. He needs a fullback that will go down the outside or beyond him, gives him more options and creates doubt in opposition defenders.

It's his first season, he's still adapting and any winger would struggle playing ahead of Dalot and AWB when left alone with no support for 90% of a game.

I'll give him more time before righting him off.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Thought he worked hard, and was unlucky not to score, with the left curler and offered a threat on the flanks. Showed a good burst of pace on one occassion and whipped in a few decent crosses. Felt it was harsh to sub him off.

Hi Antony!

 

[simplyared]

Our most threatening player today. He's basically our Jarrod Bowen.

A gross underrating of Jarrod Bowen.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Tbh no one really knows how good (or bad) someone will actually turn out until they're signed.

But surely EtH should have known how bad Anto was considering he managed him for two years prior to this.

 

[MadMike]

It's his first season and he's basically been a one man attack on the right trying to do everything himself, so he just consistently tries doing the one thing he knows might work.

I think he needs players around him to make runs and space and options for him to create more. A new right back down his side that can actually offer something in attack and a striker that offers something resembling movement around the box.

It his first season and all, but what the hell does the bolded mean? An attack consists of many players he’s just one of them. He’s not a one man attack at all. A one man RW maybe, but not sure how many right wingers you want.

You can make all the excuses for him, but we played Brighton mid week and when Solly March came on for the last 30’ he showed a level of attacking threat on the counter, that Antony simply couldn’t show. And he didn’t have much support from a fullback either.

I would also argue that AWB has been quite improved in offering an outlet on the right. I’m sorry, but I just hate this whole thing where we let players off because we judge that it’s the setup or the others around them that is the problem. We did the same with Pogba. Say he’s shit because it’s his first season and he’s adapting to the league. But don’t shift the blame for his shit crosses or his profligacy with his (terrible) shooting on sight policy, or his attitude problems, to the team. Those are all on him.

 

[Lyng]

How can he be effective when he's on his own most of the time, has no support or players creating space and options with movement. So he just cuts inside and shoots or turns and passes it back. He needs a fullback that will go down the outside or beyond him, gives him more options and creates doubt in opposition defenders.

It's his first season, he's still adapting and any winger would struggle playing ahead of Dalot and AWB when left alone with no support for 90% of a game.

I'll give him more time before righting him off.

Its not on his team mates that he makes the wrong choice often. He often shoots when there is a player available for a pass in a better position. Often Bruno will make space for him, heck we have seen AWB run deep several times and Dalot as well.
Yet Antony turns around or shoots anyway.
He is extremely predictable which is a definate no no for a winger.

 

[Oranges038]

Its not on his team mates that he makes the wrong choice often. He often shoots when there is a player available for a pass in a better position. Often Bruno will make space for him, heck we have seen AWB run deep several times and Dalot as well.
Yet Antony turns around or shoots anyway.
He is extremely predictable which is a definate no no for a winger.

It his first season and all, but what the hell does the bolded mean? An attack consists of many players he’s just one of them. He’s not a one man attack at all. A one man RW maybe, but not sure how many right wingers you want.

You can make all the excuses for him, but we played Brighton mid week and when Solly March came on for the last 30’ he showed a level of attacking threat on the counter, that Antony simply couldn’t show. And he didn’t have much support from a fullback either.

I would also argue that AWB has been quite improved in offering an outlet on the right. I’m sorry, but I just hate this whole thing where we let players off because we judge that it’s the setup or the others around them that is the problem. We did the same with Pogba. Say he’s shit because it’s his first season and he’s adapting to the league. But don’t shift the blame for his shit crosses or his profligacy with his (terrible) shooting on sight policy, or his attitude problems, to the team. Those are all on him.

My opinion is that we need a new right back to support him on that side, one that actually progresses forward with intent, goes beyond him, makes good movement and actually offers something resembling a football brain.

But, I was looking in the Martial thread and both of you seem more a lot sympathetic towards that waste of space than you are to Antony who's only been here less than a year. So, I'll not be wasting any more of my time defending my position on him to either of you.

 

[Lyng]

My opinion is that we need a new right back to support him on that side, one that actually progresses forward with intent, goes beyond him, makes good movement and actually offers something resembling a football brain.

But, I was looking in the Martial thread and both of you seem more a lot sympathetic towards that waste of space than you are to Antony who's only been here less than a year. So, I'll not be wasting any more of my time defending my position on him to either of you.

If you where indeed in the Martial thread you would see me saying that we need to get rid in the summer. Martial doesnt act like a petulant child on the pitch which means I do prefer his personality to Antony, but that has no bearing on whether I think he is good enough for our team.
Neither is in my opinion. And Martial showed far more in his first season with us than Antony has so far to be fair.

 

[Rednotdead]

The hard truth is that Antony brings virtually nothing to the team. He only scores the very occasional goal, creates almost zero chances, can’t cross the ball to save himself and defenders know he’s always going to cut inside onto his left foot. His stats don’t lie. And as for being a young player who’s still learning, he’s 23 so he should be more or less the finished article by now.

I see absolutely no justification for ETH continuing to play him.

 

[MadMike]

My opinion is that we need a new right back to support him on that side, one that actually progresses forward with intent, goes beyond him, makes good movement and actually offers something resembling a football brain.

But, I was looking in the Martial thread and both of you seem more a lot sympathetic towards that waste of space than you are to Antony who's only been here less than a year. So, I'll not be wasting any more of my time defending my position on him to either of you.

In the Martial thread my last post is literally saying that he’s not done enough to get his contract renewed. Pathetic deflection really.

 

[Borys]

I wouldn't either but if we are shifting Bruno to the left to accommodate a player it should be Antony not Wout.

Bruno has no business playing on the left. He's not a threat there at all.
I just don't think this is even a scenario for next season.

How can he be effective when he's on his own most of the time, has no support or players creating space and options with movement. So he just cuts inside and shoots or turns and passes it back. He needs a fullback that will go down the outside or beyond him, gives him more options and creates doubt in opposition defenders.

It's his first season, he's still adapting and any winger would struggle playing ahead of Dalot and AWB when left alone with no support for 90% of a game.

I'll give him more time before righting him off.

He's constantly making the wrong choices / OR ignoring players in better positions. I refuse to believe this will change signigicantly if he plays with better players. Even if he goes for a pass it's very often poorly executed.
He seems to cut inside without any plan/idea what to do next and then just goes for a shot. I am really struggling to see what he adds to our attacking game. He finds himself in good situations simply because he plays as one of the attackers. Put Pellistri there and see if he can make more out of it. I know Bruno would is more effective in creating/scoring chances when he plays as RW/RM so there's that.

 

[Oranges038]

In the Martial thread my last post is literally saying that he’s not done enough to get his contract renewed. Pathetic deflection really.

If you where indeed in the Martial thread you would see me saying that we need to get rid in the summer. Martial doesnt act like a petulant child on the pitch which means I do prefer his personality to Antony, but that has no bearing on whether I think he is good enough for our team.
Neither is in my opinion. And Martial showed far more in his first season with us than Antony has so far to be fair.

Yeah, I read them. You want Martial gone, but it's sad and he's struggled. Boo fecking hoo. The guys done nothing in 3 years but yet you think the lad who's only in the door a few months is a nothing player and spew more hate towards him than that utter waste of space. With Antony you want him gone and are writing him off before he's even had a chance to settle in.

For me, he's just one of the first pieces of the puzzle, once ETH starts putting the rest of the pieces he needs in there, we'll see a better player.

 

[Rednotdead]

Antony’s main problem is that he’s nowhere near as good as he appears to think he is. I’ve seen no improvement from the start of the season to now, he still does everything he did then and is still as ineffective. His stats in the league this season speak for themselves - 22 games played, 4 goals scored, 1 chance created. He’s received as many yellow cards (5) as goals scored and chances created combined. These stats don’t lie.

 

[El Jefe]

My opinion is that we need a new right back to support him on that side, one that actually progresses forward with intent, goes beyond him, makes good movement and actually offers something resembling a football brain.

But, I was looking in the Martial thread and both of you seem more a lot sympathetic towards that waste of space than you are to Antony who's only been here less than a year. So, I'll not be wasting any more of my time defending my position on him to either of you.

I would've thought that by now we would stop excusing and babying players in this sort of fashion.

This reads no different to "Sancho needs a RB like Hakimi before we unlock him", "Pogba needs a DM behind him and needs to be a LCM to get the Juve version".

It's all an excuse and wishful thinking. AWB in the last 2-3 months has actually overlapped aggressively and supported Antony on the right. He's no Cafu but he hasn't left Antony all alone. Antony hasn't been good because of his own skillset. He has no goal or assist in the PL in 18 of his last 19 games.

Yesterday he got the ball on the right with space to put a cross in to Rashford on the backpost and he plays a loopy and slow ball that was impossible for Rashford to do anything with. He has so many limitations in his game its unreal. I bet you the strikers and RBs could also make excuses that they would look better with a RW that wasn't greedy or could cross the ball.

 

[Lyng]

Yeah, I read them. You want Martial gone, but it's sad and he's struggled. Boo fecking hoo. The guys done nothing in 3 years but yet you think the lad who's only in the door a few months is a nothing player and spew more hate towards him than that utter waste of space. With Antony you want him gone and are writing him off before he's even had a chance to settle in.

For me, he's just one of the first pieces of the puzzle, once ETH starts putting the rest of the pieces he needs in there, we'll see a better player.

Martial was very impressive in his first season. Antony has only had glimpses of anything productive. So yes some of us had some hope that Martial would actually come good, but he didnt. Antony is extremely one note and for some reason you think Martial not being good enough is all on him but with Antony its the team?
This is like people blaming Maguire for De Gea and vice versa.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We spent 85m to replace MG with a much inferior player.

 

[JB7]

We got worse once he went off, yet again.

 

[AndySmith1990]

We got worse once he went off, yet again.

We get worse in the second half no matter who goes off

 

[Lyng]

We got worse once he went off, yet again.

We went from bad to slightly worse. That still doesnt mean he is good enough

 

[marktan]

It's not surprising, his game at Ajax was very limited too. Watch his goals and assists last season - a lot of poor defending. Most of them were cutting in and having a shot that went in easily or cutting in and sending a cross in. He rarely ever dribbled past his man and even less went on the outside.

That and playing for a dominant attacking side.

Like Sancho, I called both of these points out prior to us signing them. It's just a shame we've made the same mistake twice for big money under two different managers.

Players like Trossard who've shown a good level in the premier league would be far more use to us. And he was cheap, too.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

A moderately competent Championship level left back would easily have Antony in his pocket. That's how predictable and ineffective he is. The outlay on Antony, if he doesn't start delivering big style, is the hill Erik may eventually die on.

 

[bosnian_red]

We spent 85m to replace MG with a much inferior player.

Was always going to happen TBF. MG was an elite talent with world class potential, and I called it at the time that purely footballing wise, we'd need to spend 100m to replace him and even then you don't know if it would be as good (potential wise). It is what it is though, out of our control that one.

Same logic I had with Rashford last year. We knew he was capable of being a 100m player. Better to just get his level back than spend 100m and take a risk on a player who might not be as good anyway.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We got worse once he went off, yet again.

We did but his own contribution had declined sharply by the time he went off.

We're definitely a much better team when he's playing well though. We don't really have anyone else that combines his ability to carry the ball deep into the opposition half and rarely lose possession. Obviously, he needs to get more productive but we would be a fair bit lower down the table without him this season, that's for sure.

 

[Lyng]

We did but his own contribution had declined sharply by the time he went off.

We're definitely a much better team when he's playing well though. We don't really have anyone else that combines his ability to carry the ball deep into the opposition half and rarely lose possession. Obviously, he needs to get more productive but we would be a fair bit lower down the table without him this season, that's for sure.

I dont thinks thats a certainty. Bruno on the right has been better and more consistent. Pellistri has looked a bright option the few times he has been given a chance.
He has had some very good games of course but the consistency is severely lacking.
I would agree without Bruno we would be much lower, but Antony not so much.