Club Sale | It’s done!

[Big Ben Foster]

Yes. However, for the purposes of the FSR (FFP) calculation of football earnings, only the "fair value" of the sponsorship is relevant to the calculation (i.e. Ineos can sponsor United, but that sponsorship deal will need to be of a magnitude that would be deemed fair value - they can't sponsor us £300m per season for having their name on the shirt).

Sensible, but how do they define "fair value"? Obviously the £300m per season example wouldn't fly, but it feels like there's still a little room for some creative accounting.

 

[Sultan]

You may be correct, but I’d be shocked if that’s the case. If there’s one thing the Glazers are good at it’s earning money. My main point was, the Glazers selling all their shares over a longer period of time isn’t automatically a worse deal than all at once. There’s potential for them to earn even more through that approach.

I doubt many know the true financial package offered by either party.

However, with present inflation rates and a chance for the Glazers to reinvest the money from the sale immediately on other assets, the Glazers can easily earn 10% a year on many investments. Over say 3 years that is 600 Million profit for 6 billion what is the likely figure Jassim is likely offering upfront. I'm not even accounting for any capital appreciation on assets purchased by the Glazers immediately with the sale proceeds.

Anyway, I am sure there will be many more intellectual minds than myself so I may be talking a lot of drivel.

 

[Woodzy]

I feel they are just baiting as much as possible out of Qatar here.

There's absolutely no reason for this process to be so drawn out if Jim is such a clear favourite.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If SJ is serious he’d be better off just trying to buy the Glazers out first and worry about the minority shares after that.

HBJ: I love my sons, but they are not serious people.

 

[Nick7]

I doubt many know the true financial package offered by either party.

However, with present inflation rates and a chance for the Glazers to reinvest the money from the sale immediately on other assets, the Glazers can easily earn 10% a year on many investments. Over say 3 years that is 600 Million profit for 6 billion what is the likely figure Jassim is likely offering upfront. I'm not even accounting for any capital appreciation on assets purchased by the Glazers immediately with the sale proceeds.

Anyway, I am sure there will be many more intellectual minds than myself so I may be talking a lot of drivel.

Absolutely that’s a possibility. But as I said earlier it’s been said that the Glazers see the value of the club growing in the near to medium future and that’s why they want to stick around. They could see the shares of United being a shrewd investment.

 

[gaffs]

If the numbers are real $6.25billion from Jim v $7.54bil from Qatar, then i cant see how Ineos can compete.

Inios wants to buy 51%, at $3.18bil. That same 51% from Qatar would make the Glazers $3.84bil - a $660mil difference.

Even if The Glazers thinking is that Avram and Joel keep 18% from the Ineos bit, which would be worth $1.25bil, it is too high risk to assume that the club will be worth significantly more in the future. Not enough to cover the difference now. They are better off financially taking the bigger lump sum from Qatar now.

There will be too much pressure on Joel and Avram from the other family members to take the bigger offer now, than take a lesser one, just so Avram and Joel can potentially benefit later on.

The Glazers have played this brilliantly. If they get a bid that values the club as 6billion pounds, then it's a massive win for them.

 

[tombombadil]

I feel they are just baiting as much as possible out of Qatar here.

There's absolutely no reason for this process to be so drawn out if Jim is such a clear favourite.

My thoughts as well. And it looks like it is working.

 

[Nick7]

If the numbers are real $6.25billion from Jim v $7.54bil from Qatar, then i cant see how Ineos can compete.

Inios wants to buy 51%, at $3.18bil. That same 51% from Qatar would make the Glazers $3.84bil - a $660mil difference.

Even if The Glazers thinking is that Avram and Joel keep 18% from the Ineos bit, which would be worth $1.25bil, it is too high risk to assume that the club will be worth significantly more in the future. Not enough to cover the difference now. They are better off financially taking the bigger lump sum from Qatar now.

There will be too much pressure on Joel and Avram from the other family members to take the bigger offer now, than take a lesser one, just so Avram and Joel can potentially benefit later on.

The Glazers have played this brilliantly. If they get a bid that values the club as 6billion pounds, then it's a massive win for them.

1b of that Jassim number is investment into the club post purchase, so not to the Glazers. Also I don’t think those numbers are correct at all to be honest, certainly not the numbers I’ve seen. Where did you see them?

 

[Marcelinho87]

1b of that Jassim number is investment into the club post purchase, so not to the Glazers. Also I don’t think those numbers are correct at all to be honest, certainly not the numbers I’ve seen. Where did you see them?

And then minus the debt which is included in the first figure not the 1b

 

[El-Manos]

Wow this has never been brought up before in here.....

You ok hun? You do realise not all of us have the liberty to read every single post ?

 

[Nick7]

And then minus the debt which is included in the first figure not the 1b

Oh that’s what I was forgetting.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Messier1994]

Not very competitive equals not willing to pay whatever it takes to secure club then.

Not very competitive means not very competitive. If someone is willing to pay 2.95bn for MUFC — they will have acquired the biggest sports team on the planet and outbid 9-2. A competitive bid would have put the bar higher.

 

[Sultan]

Absolutely that’s a possibility. But as I said earlier it’s been said that the Glazers see the value of the club growing in the near to medium future and that’s why they want to stick around. They could see the shares of United being a shrewd investment.

Accounting for inflation and loss on possible other financial gains, I think cash is king at the moment. I can't possibly see the shares going up that much when the club has already been well overvalued. Glazers would also not be in charge of decisions on transfers and any infrastructure which could impact the profits and increase debts and massive interest payments over the next few years.

 

[Nori-]

The worst part of SJR potentially winning is with each bid he makes to get ahead of the Qataris, he is giving up more money that could have gone towards club investments.

Every share or cent these parasites claw back, we have to wait a little longer for a new stadium, better training facilities, star players.

 

[AlPistacho]

Wow this has never been brought up before in here.....

Great so we can stop bringing up the Glazers financial mismanagement of United for 18 years? It’s already been mentioned, let’s stop talking about it.

 

[Messier1994]

This is what is being reported, and those reports could be correct or incorrect, but it paints a pretty obvious picture:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[gaffs]

Ben Jacobs has been on this channel about 10 times. He doesn't know anything more than what is in the papers. He just says " this may be what is happening" or "Sir Jim could be...".

 

[AlPistacho]

The worst part of SJR potentially winning is with each bid he makes to get ahead of the Qataris, he is giving up more money that could have gone towards club investments.

Every share or cent these parasites claw back, we have to wait a little longer for a new stadium, better training facilities, star players.

Ratcliffe response will probably be to give the glazers voting rights or not have to leave. And guess what. Those that still support him will do the mental gymnastics to support that.

 

[stw2022]

People overestimate how attractive it is to have a sizable chunk of your capital tied up in a minority investment you have no control over in the hopes that a few years down line you might be able to get more than you could now.

All these stories that speculated with a degree of detail strange for an apparently confidential negotiation, were never anything but a unsubtle public message outlining what the Qataris would need to do to win.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

The worst part of SJR potentially winning is with each bid he makes to get ahead of the Qataris, he is giving up more money that could have gone towards club investments.

Every share or cent these parasites claw back, we have to wait a little longer for a new stadium, better training facilities, star players.

That is another reason why I do not trust SJR at all. That part in bold is a description of incompetence.

 

[MarkoDolohov]

I doubt many know the true financial package offered by either party.

However, with present inflation rates and a chance for the Glazers to reinvest the money from the sale immediately on other assets, the Glazers can easily earn 10% a year on many investments. Over say 3 years that is 600 Million profit for 6 billion what is the likely figure Jassim is likely offering upfront. I'm not even accounting for any capital appreciation on assets purchased by the Glazers immediately with the sale proceeds.

Anyway, I am sure there will be many more intellectual minds than myself so I may be talking a lot of drivel.

You'd think that but with whats been reported and the manner in stuff has been reported I doubt it mate. For a long time there was doubt regarding the currency the bids were going in, let alone the structure and what the minute details are. All in all, least by Monday we should have some clarification.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ratcliffe response will probably be to give the glazers voting rights or not have to leave. And guess what. Those that still support him will do the mental gymnastics to support that.

My word..... people are making stuff up now to vent their anger.

This is getting pathetic.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Accounting for inflation and loss on possible other financial gains, I think cash is king at the moment. I can't possibly see the shares going up that much when the club has already been well overvalued. Glazers would also not be in charge of decisions on transfers and any infrastructure which could impact the profits and increase debts and massive interest payments over the next few years.

Glazers may well believe that INEOS have the funds and the means to do just that, something they themselves don't have.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Ratcliffe response will probably be to give the glazers voting rights or not have to leave. And guess what. Those that still support him will do the mental gymnastics to support that.

Speaking of mental gymnastics....

 

[TheGodsInRed]

If the numbers are real $6.25billion from Jim v $7.54bil from Qatar, then i cant see how Ineos can compete.

Inios wants to buy 51%, at $3.18bil. That same 51% from Qatar would make the Glazers $3.84bil - a $660mil difference.

Even if The Glazers thinking is that Avram and Joel keep 18% from the Ineos bit, which would be worth $1.25bil, it is too high risk to assume that the club will be worth significantly more in the future. Not enough to cover the difference now. They are better off financially taking the bigger lump sum from Qatar now.

There will be too much pressure on Joel and Avram from the other family members to take the bigger offer now, than take a lesser one, just so Avram and Joel can potentially benefit later on.

The Glazers have played this brilliantly. If they get a bid that values the club as 6billion pounds, then it's a massive win for them.

7.54bn is the asking price, not what Qatar have supposedly bid. Journo's are saying it's much less than that.

 

[stw2022]

There's been very little focus on how Ratcliffe would finance this purchase. Lots of talk about what the funding source behind the Qatari bid might be. With Ratcliffe the only real scrutiny seems to be an assumption his inflated net worth estimate is actual cash.

 

[Nick7]

Accounting for inflation and loss on possible other financial gains, I think cash is king at the moment. I can't possibly see the shares going up that much when the club has already been well overvalued. Glazers would also not be in charge of decisions on transfers and any infrastructure which could impact the profits and increase debts and massive interest payments over the next few years.

Yeah I mean, I’d take the money up front no doubt. But I’m also a cautious man. The Glazers may see differently though. I don’t know I just think if the 51% offer wasn’t as attractive to the Glazers as an all up front 69% offer we would have heard it being thrown out by now.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

There's been very little focus on how Ratcliffe would finance this purchase. Lots of talk about what the funding source behind the Qatari bid might be. With Ratcliffe the only real scrutiny seems to be an assumption his inflated net worth estimate is actual cash.

Ratcliffe wouldn't be the one purchasing the club, INEOS would be.

 

[stw2022]

Ratcliffe wouldn't be the one purchasing the club, INEOS would be.

Same applies. They do not have money to buy us so how will they fund the purchase

 

[TheGodsInRed]

There's been very little focus on how Ratcliffe would finance this purchase. Lots of talk about what the funding source behind the Qatari bid might be. With Ratcliffe the only real scrutiny seems to be an assumption his inflated net worth estimate is actual cash.

That's because they are buying up companies left right and centre. Ineos spent $1.2bn on a us oil drilling company a couple of months ago. They borrow loads of money for their investments, but their revenues are huge.

 

[stw2022]

That's because they are buying up companies left right and centre. Ineos spent $1.2bn on a us oil drilling company a couple of months ago. They borrow loads of money for their investments, but their revenues are huge.

Of course they borrow and purchase. Imagine they are using profits that drilling company makes to repay the loans they used to purchase them.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Same applies. They do not have money to buy us so how will they fund the purchase

Ratcliffe would have us 4th or 5th I believe in terms of richest owners... They definitely do have the money but would rather have us acquired as a business asset.

 

[Suv666]

We’re going to get this a lot like we do with the “Glaziers” aren’t we?

Yes hate than Avon Glazier fella

 

[Tender Teacher]

You'd like to think the potential buyers will have the cojones to set their own firm deadline to avoid that happening.

Most likely the buyers do have other things they could do with their £5bn.

Nice to see one of them has said cojones at least.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Same applies. They do not have money to buy us so how will they fund the purchase

They've been working with JPMorgan and Goldman on this process, so presumably that's where the financing will come from.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ratcliffe would have us 4th or 5th I believe in terms of richest owners... They definitely do have the money but would rather have us acquired as a business asset.

Utd at 5-6bn isn't a business investment. There's so many easier ways to get a return on investment at these prices. It's not the same as when the Glazers bought us for 330m + a 500m loan.

Sir Jim is in this for the glory and PR and probably because he loves the club. That doesn't mean he will be a successful owner of course but it definitely rules out a business investment as quite frankly he's paying over the odds. They both are.

 

[stw2022]

Ratcliffe would have us 4th or 5th I believe in terms of richest owners... They definitely do have the money but would rather have us acquired as a business asset.

They'll aquire us through heavy borrowing that I think it's naive to claim we would not be at least contributing a significant amount of our own revenue towards.

Companies buy other companies all the time using borrowed money. Nothing unusual or wrong in that. But it's pretty much what the Glazers did and there's a bizarre irony that pretty much the same financial ownership structure is now being sold as a saviour

 

[Marcelinho87]

Utd at 5-6bn isn't a business investment. There's so many easier ways to get a return on investment at these prices. It's not the same as when the Glazers bought us for 330m + a 500m loan.

Sir Jim is in this for the glory and PR and probably because he loves the club. That doesn't mean he will be a successful owner of course but it definitely rules out a business investment as quite frankly he's paying over the odds. They both are.

Oh I know I never said investment... It's an asset meaning INEOS will get further tax relief due to the debt acquired.

I don't think SJR wants to make any money from United I think he sees it as a late life flurry on something he enjoys.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Same applies. They do not have money to buy us so how will they fund the purchase

Sir Jim will break out the penny jars he's been saving since childhood