Yeah the second part has definitely hindered our start to the season. Understandably Erik is getting a pass from the majority of fanbase due to injuries,however if results don't significantly pick up when players return then can see him definitely losing much of the support.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
That's different than openly acknowledging that their players played shite.
Managers (should) always said one thing to the press and another thing privately to the players.
So obvious you can't just say it? You have no idea whether the tactics are working or not, you can't even describe them. You probably couldn't even tell they changed the formation last match.
We are crying out for change in approach and Amrabat will be key to that as we would finally have a connection between defence and midfield given our midfielders have not been tracking back.
Only problem is Amrabat isn't available
Only problem is Amrabat isn't available
You missed Tottenham 1st half? United shouldve scored 1-2 goals there . Even the stat agreed.
I want to see us when everyone is back especially Amrabat, Mainoo, Varane and Shaw. I think we’ll see a very different team then.
The start of the season does highlight the need for a new CB. Lindelof looked decent at the end of last season but with him and Maguire as our second choice defenders, we’re going to struggle. Granted Martinez hasn’t been his usual self either nor the people infront of the defence but a quality new addition wouldn’t have us relying on players coming back from long term injury or Maguire and Lindelof, as much.
The start of the season does highlight the need for a new CB. Lindelof looked decent at the end of last season but with him and Maguire as our second choice defenders, we’re going to struggle. Granted Martinez hasn’t been his usual self either nor the people infront of the defence but a quality new addition wouldn’t have us relying on players coming back from long term injury or Maguire and Lindelof, as much.
That's why I was so hopeful of replacing Maguire with Todibo. Whether he is good enough or not at least we know Maguire is not good enough.
First step has to be sort out of the mentality. Against both Spurs and Brighton we were the better team in the first half and should have been ahead - in the case of Brighton by a few goals. But in both games we just got worn out, lost our positional discipline and started losing control. We played fairly well against Arsenal and shouldn’t have lost that either but regardless the larger point is that we are finding ways to lose games and lose control of games. This has to be rectified immediately to get our season back on track.
Then the focus after that can be on developing the team tactically to its fullest (yes some of it goes hand in hand).
Then the focus after that can be on developing the team tactically to its fullest (yes some of it goes hand in hand).
Yeah these results can’t go on. But EtH is riding a storm. Combination of new players, new system and injuries is a tough situation. I think it will make a huge difference to get players back. Then the new players and system will start to click.
I don’t know why we have these periods where it goes completely awry but my hunch is that it won’t happen as much when the system is more drilled and the players are used to the mental and physical demands of it. However there could be some players who aren’t up to it. If Rashford turns out to be one of them, it will be a huge conundrum for EtH to deal with because in many ways he’s our best player.
Was Martial in that team?
Let’s be honest we need to replace Maguire & Lindelof, not just one
Please sack him so that Ajax can hire him again. You might think you guys are a mess, have a look at our club
Yes I would agree with most of that (although the managers hands were somewhat tied due to the lack of options on the bench against Brighton), good post.
It's up to Ten Hag to bench players if his players are being lazy in defense, or they can't carry out his instructions of when to press.
Ignore the title, it's mainly about how our pressing failed on goal #2.
Ignore the title, it's mainly about how our pressing failed on goal #2.
I get the over reactive , hyperbolic hysteria about ETH but it’s boring at this stage.
Bring in Klopp or Pep to United circus and you get the exact same result. When are people gonna realise this?
I think there’s a lot of fans that actually know it doesn’t matter who the United manager is because of the clubs broke infrastructure, but would still call for his head for change promises change sake.
Is they way the team has Been performing acceptable ? No
Should this squad be doing better with the players there? Yes
You could say that anytime over the last 10 years with arguably Moyes having the most over the hill squad that needed massive over haul.
United is a club that’s fundamentally broken. Persistently Targeting the managers is so narrow minded. You can be right (managers keep falling short of targets) and wrong (because the club isn’t able to create the conditions and environment to help them win) at the same time.
Bring in Klopp or Pep to United circus and you get the exact same result. When are people gonna realise this?
I think there’s a lot of fans that actually know it doesn’t matter who the United manager is because of the clubs broke infrastructure, but would still call for his head for change promises change sake.
Is they way the team has Been performing acceptable ? No
Should this squad be doing better with the players there? Yes
You could say that anytime over the last 10 years with arguably Moyes having the most over the hill squad that needed massive over haul.
United is a club that’s fundamentally broken. Persistently Targeting the managers is so narrow minded. You can be right (managers keep falling short of targets) and wrong (because the club isn’t able to create the conditions and environment to help them win) at the same time.
Who replaced overmars and edwin/?Please sack him so that Ajax can hire him again. You might think you guys are a mess, have a look at our club
Apparently Ten Hag was late to the press conference, he needs to drop himself.
All i see is Rashford and Eriksen casually jodging whilst Bruno running like headless chicken. Hojlund doesn't know where he should be, but its understandable.
At this rate he'll be sacked sooner than expected.
You do realise I'm not the poster you were initially talking to?
I had the fortune of being sat in the stands, so I got a good view of the shape of both teams. I witnessed the tactical masterclass from De Zerbi and how ETH had no answer. And what they did wasn't just to do with formation, it's not that simple. It was their shape, the position their back 4 picked up when the keeper had the ball. Split the CBs and create a 3 with the GK, full backs push up beyond the press but giving an angle for a pass at all times, the presence of the double pivot to confuse/outnumber our press. Then the trigger between recirculating along the defenders and when to move forward (once they worked the ball to a full back that was ahead of our more advanced midfielders, causing them to have to chase back towards our goal rather than press them back to their goal). It was obvious to anybody (except our manager apparently). They usually play out centrally and the receiving midfielder will usually play a first time pass or spin the presser, but with our narrow formation they quickly realised this was too dangerous and adjusted brilliantly.
In attack they created overloads in our box which meant that, when they had the ball on one side of the pitch in advanced areas, a midfielder would move into our box between the far side full back and CB, which attracted that full back and left the opposing winger completely free. Something they didn't capitalise on as Mitoma was generally the free player but wasn't clinical when he did receive the ball. There's a lot I could say about their tactics on the day and how ours were so poor.
These guys don't know how to press as he wants and don't seem to want to learn. I get its a transition from Solksjaer ball but it's been a fair while now and there's no discernable improvement in effort going into it
He doesn't want us to press aggressively I don't think. He commits a handful of forwards to press whilst the rest retain shape. It is worse than no press at all.
This video is fearmongering, I think this analysis is better:
^ It's a long video but the crux of it is, the formation had a lot of value in attack and we looked very threatening. But we should tweak to a better defensive system when off the ball. This is interesting because its easy to trash the diamond formation just because we lost, but there is value in pursuing it.
I don't think it was fearmongering. It laid out where the press Ten Hag wanted should work, but the players didn't properly run when the trap would have worked.
He doesn't, but in that video above it shows that it would have worked had some players actually committed to running (when it was time to), and if some recognized when the timing was perfect to bring more intensity. It shows that United had gotten Brighton exactly where they wanted, and McTominay failed to up his intensity, while also giving the one lane that would allow them to escape. Other instances showed that Rashford, Bruno, and Eriksen failed to up their intensity at certain points in the 2nd goal.
We need to back him. I keep saying "backing" isn't just about transfers. It's about structure, the liberty to bench players who won't do their job. It's so much more than transfers.
Brighton game was a fecking hard watch, we looked immature in the second half while Brighton worked harder and kept playing their game.
I don‘t quite agree with some that De Zerbi had Ten Hag‘s number. We stifled them effectively in the first 25 minutes or so.
We should have kept pressing them and keeping things tight in the middle. But that seems easier said than done for this group of players.
I‘m reassured by Ten Hag‘s honesty, but I‘m wondering what is going on behind the scenes. He must be outraged.
It can‘t be that things fall apart this easily. Even with all the injuries and some bad luck in games, we should be doing better.
I don‘t quite agree with some that De Zerbi had Ten Hag‘s number. We stifled them effectively in the first 25 minutes or so.
We should have kept pressing them and keeping things tight in the middle. But that seems easier said than done for this group of players.
I‘m reassured by Ten Hag‘s honesty, but I‘m wondering what is going on behind the scenes. He must be outraged.
It can‘t be that things fall apart this easily. Even with all the injuries and some bad luck in games, we should be doing better.
True, you apparently had a good idea how to approach the game. But de Zerbi adjusted his team to deal with that after those 25 minutes and following that EtH didn't seem to have another answer to that.
Eric "itsh the playersh" Ten Hag.
What I saw was we didn‘t deal with the next phases of Brighton‘s attack. There is a plan for every phase.
After the goal we stopped pressing effectively, that‘s not on Ten Hag.
They scored from a cross that should have been blocked. The crosser wasn‘t tightly marked, the cross not cut out and no one picked up Wellbeck. Their first chance that was created by at least two consecutive mistakes.
I‘ve seen the analyses of the game, but Wellbeck picking up the ball far into our half is not a fecking problem, that is exactly what we want. The mistakes are in the next phases.
I think the team lost confidence in the plan and stopped following the rules.
Of course some of the blame rests with Ten Hag, but we all could see the players who stopped pressing and the individual mistakes.
This is a good accurate summary of the game and where we went wrong.
We play well because the opposition sits back and tries to keep it tight for the first 20 mins or so. See what we have got. Then when we have nothing they switch it up a gear. Either slightly change tactics or up intensity then we are done. How many times have we beaten teams when we were in our prime and the other team say oh but we were all over you for X minutes. We were unlucky. If only we scored that goal. Its small team mentality. It means nothing that we play well for 20 minutes. Top teams will win and dont care that the other team had good spells in the game. They always do.
So unfair from the players to continuously letting a brilliant manager like ETH down. Pretty much the same players that used to save a poor manager like OGS every week too....Players are such a'holes. 
An idea for ETH could be to not alienate, bully and blaim our players, and try to manage them better in stead. I don't know. Just a thought....
An idea for ETH could be to not alienate, bully and blaim our players, and try to manage them better in stead. I don't know. Just a thought....
Seems United Board is as delusional as they come with 'chasing City'
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Nah we were far better vs Spurs, both in our dominant period and in the after period. Vs Spurs we comfortably should've scored a couple, plus had a pen not called.
Vs Brighton we were unlucky with the disallowed goal but didn't create that much really. And the period lasted 15-20 minutes where they adapted to the system and then took over. Wasn't mental, was tactical. Against Spurs it was more mental after going 1 down and then losing composure, not really a tactical issue. Minor adjustments sure, but Brighton it was drastic.
We're further away than ever.
Good point, that explains it just as well.
Sure ten hag isn't isn't only problem at the club, or even the biggest one but saying he isn't culpable for our failings on the pitch is weak.
He hasn't ever managed to get us playing a clear style of football at any point and his away record against good teams couldn't be any worse. Spurs looked a complete basket case last year, and now look transformed under ange
Yep if anything that's another thing to tick against him and the backroom staff. It was clear the preseason was an absolute mess, the players were not fit and then had to play competitive games and got injured. That's on him.
We aren't though