you do realise you are supposed to support your club like a sheep. Like that’s the point.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Onana, Evans, Antony, Amrabat, Højlund. Almost half the 11
Yeah, the whole argument doesn't really hold up. He also had players like Mount, the priority target this summer, and Eriksen on the bench. His purchases again. He needs to start delivering sharpish, or the performances will catch up, especially after the November break. Just like they did with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Pep also said Harry Maguire was class and extremely fast once. He's a troll, I'm sure he does it to encourage bad moves from us.
I don't want him to go yet. But I'm getting frustrated at the performances. I don't understand why players don't get dropped if they are sh*t, this is the case for rashford, Fernandes and lindelof etc etc ALL season.
Rashford won't pass. When garnacho had his chance at the start of the season he didn't have hojlund to play in.
Antony offers nothing. Mount was actually good out there the 2 games he got when Antony was out. But ETH changed it the first chance he got.
What is our style of play?
Rashford won't pass. When garnacho had his chance at the start of the season he didn't have hojlund to play in.
Antony offers nothing. Mount was actually good out there the 2 games he got when Antony was out. But ETH changed it the first chance he got.
What is our style of play?
Bruno doesn't have the flexibility of movement, touch or dribbling to be anything close to Tadic.
The sack culture amongst some supporters is actually quite pathetic. Whinging over a bad start when we’re missing 3 of our starting back 4 thru injuries and have a single senior full back in the squad. Zero perspective or patience. Not to mention the other drama off the pitch. The fact we’re only 5 points from Liverpool is actually a miracle at this stage. Once players return from long term injuries, I can see a sustained run of good results and better football. Top 4/5 with a trophy is definitely still achievable.
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2 interesting articles that has helped me understand Ten Hag's proposed plan for this team and provides a perspective that is more pragmatic. It's difficult for a lot of fans not to compare to other club successes and strategies for rebuilding but we should try to realize the fact that no one really knows whats going on behind the scenes. What we do know, is that managers have come and gone, and one glaring fact is that players have stooped to the low of sabotage or sulking when they disagree with the coach.
https://theathletic.com/4827689/2023/09/26/manchester-united-problems-ten-hag-plan/
https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...ysis-how-erik-ten-hag-fixed-manchester-united
https://theathletic.com/4827689/2023/09/26/manchester-united-problems-ten-hag-plan/
https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...ysis-how-erik-ten-hag-fixed-manchester-united
It's just how modern football works I am afraid. Managing big clubs comes with high expectations. It's not even like our performances last season were particularly great, we were generally dull but functional and relied heavily on rashford for goals. Obviously it's still early days but it seems pretty clear mount as an 8 wasn't a sensible idea, and onana may not be good enough so it's reasonable to question how much we will improve.
Part of the problem is that ETH seesm to have taken on the dof role which means he is a lightning rod for criticism over signings as well as the coaching of the team. And the signings are at best a mixed bag, at worst poor.
It's also really hard to be confident he has a plan that will improve us when there is such a disparity between what he talks about and what we see on the pitch
So if players doing good, players get the credit and not the manager.
If players not doing good, manager get the credit and not the players.
Did I get this right?
Not really how this all works is it. Ten Hag will be gone by the year end before any transfer window even opens. Also he signed numerous of these players.
Playing Bruno all the time, making him captain, and turning a blind eye to his disgraceful performances will be his downfall.
Yes, I could probably have replied with something more insightful than a laugh emoji, but that's such an insane thing to say/justify, it doesn't deserve more than derision. Hopefully, the joke/sarcasm flew over my head.
So what you're saying is we should get Fergie's choice to replace him at United then.
Don't think it's that simple or Ole would be a better coach than him. And he was rightfully given credit for bringing confidence back to Rashford last year, problem is that we were even more reliant on moments of brilliance.
Emery’s a great manager, no doubt. I think he does best outside the limelight (as most would tbf). The Arsenal job seemed too big for him - how would he cope here?
He’s created a team with no strengths. Any perceived strength of this team is all player dependent which makes me seriously question him. Pep could have half his team out and they’d still move the ball well enough, Klopp’s team could be cratered with injuries and they would still create chances. Lose one player who is really good at something in our team and that completely disappears from our team when the player is missing.
What do we do very well as a team since ETH has been here? There’s nothing in my opinion, and all the best teams have a strength which they focus on as a team and build around that. We have nothing to build on because we don’t particularly do anything well enough for that to be our identity.
The one thing we were top class at was counterattacks and he ruined it by buying Antony who might be the worst counterattacking player I’ve ever seen at the club.
I think ETH is in over his head both here and in the PL.
What do we do very well as a team since ETH has been here? There’s nothing in my opinion, and all the best teams have a strength which they focus on as a team and build around that. We have nothing to build on because we don’t particularly do anything well enough for that to be our identity.
The one thing we were top class at was counterattacks and he ruined it by buying Antony who might be the worst counterattacking player I’ve ever seen at the club.
I think ETH is in over his head both here and in the PL.
There’s a big difference managing villa and united. The expectations are different the pressures are different.
The same Unai couldn’t do much at arsenal!
Didn't we see Liverpool with lots of defensive injuries and the impact that had on goals scored? Some kind of home record without goals wasn't it?
So the moral of the story is that whether a manager or a player, success in one place doesn't mean you'll get success in another, and vice versa
Emery has discussed this - aside from having to replace Wenger (we know how badly replacing long-standing managers can go), he committed 'crime' of trying to run most of his team business and press comms in English rather than delegating to a translator, before being fully fluent, which basically had him mocked and on the backfoot from the press: that's the English press in a country which is notoriously monolingual and 3/4 of whom don't have anything beyond faded GCCSE French/Spanish/German.
Emery's doing alright at Villa, I'd say, and I suspect he'd probably be doing better than ETH if he was here (particular in instilling a style), even with this mixed-up squad, injuries and our dear owners.
This applies to Ten Hag somehow, whether you realise it or not.
Either way - I don't wholesale write people off because they've failed previously. Especially when - if analysed as a whole - their track record is a successful one, which Unai's is. It is also better than Ten Hag's.
I'm comfortable in saying that with the low standards at United currently, the level of patience fans afford managers - Ten Hag has a **** following here, despite the huge gulf between how he's regarded and what he's actually provided in terms of results/performance, and the funds given to him - Unai would have likely done a better job here.
I think the last couple of weeks have seen the beginnings of shifts that will combine to mean we'll probably go into next season with a new manager. I won't go the full tectonic plates thing, but these are deep-seated movements, that feel likely to gain momentum. And it's not hard see the effect.
Firstly, we have a growing likelihood that Ratcliffe will have control over the footballing operation. Maybe not for some time, probably not until the new year and probably really only starting to take shape ahead of 2024-25. As plenty of people have already recognised, he's likely to be a guy in a hurry, with a track record of INEOS wanting to do things their way and a clamour for making an early, visible, difference.
Secondly, it just doesn't look good for ETH. The injury situation is horrendous, I think he deserves longer, and that he'll get it, but I increasingly think we have no chance of a UCL place, will struggle for top 6-7, and could even struggle to scrape top 10. More than anything, we look a terribly coached team. And it's not just what I've seen in almost all our games so far this season. It's when you see what Howe (who I don't rate that highly) and Emery are doing, that I start to lose faith.
I'd say most people would have Newcastle and Villa, well behind where we were when they brought in new managers. They've spent less (though I've not checked for certain) but bought better; have implemented coherent playing styles; look well coached; and are making progress at a faster rate.
That's not me crying out for an Eddie or an Unai. It's saying there are benchmarks on expectations and progress. ETH is looking like he's failing on these and a re-booted playing side operation won't tolerate that.
Without a sustained improvement in the next 3-4 months, he won't be here next summer.
Firstly, we have a growing likelihood that Ratcliffe will have control over the footballing operation. Maybe not for some time, probably not until the new year and probably really only starting to take shape ahead of 2024-25. As plenty of people have already recognised, he's likely to be a guy in a hurry, with a track record of INEOS wanting to do things their way and a clamour for making an early, visible, difference.
Secondly, it just doesn't look good for ETH. The injury situation is horrendous, I think he deserves longer, and that he'll get it, but I increasingly think we have no chance of a UCL place, will struggle for top 6-7, and could even struggle to scrape top 10. More than anything, we look a terribly coached team. And it's not just what I've seen in almost all our games so far this season. It's when you see what Howe (who I don't rate that highly) and Emery are doing, that I start to lose faith.
I'd say most people would have Newcastle and Villa, well behind where we were when they brought in new managers. They've spent less (though I've not checked for certain) but bought better; have implemented coherent playing styles; look well coached; and are making progress at a faster rate.
That's not me crying out for an Eddie or an Unai. It's saying there are benchmarks on expectations and progress. ETH is looking like he's failing on these and a re-booted playing side operation won't tolerate that.
Without a sustained improvement in the next 3-4 months, he won't be here next summer.
I keep seeing that percentage drop over time it's easy to see where it's going. For me
To me it's very sad to see so many writing him off so soon, and I'll happily continue fight his corner whilst the farce that is the takeover continues to go on behind the scenes, and we have 80 % of the first team out injured.
Also if Potter is going to be a name we are even putting under consideration to replace him, then I would follow Ten Hag over a cliff.
Also if Potter is going to be a name we are even putting under consideration to replace him, then I would follow Ten Hag over a cliff.
I’m a bit indifferent at this point. Don’t really want him sacked, first because of player power, secondly because there’s no manager who takes my fancy.
On the flip side we’ve been shit since February.
On the flip side we’ve been shit since February.
This for me
Van Dijk and another CB were out for the season a few years back and it decimated their league form! Fabinho had to go in to CB role which impacted their ability to control games as he was out of midfield, and Liverpool ended up finishing with 30 fewer points than the season prior.
Pep has never had a situation where one area of the team has been wiped out. He’s had numerous injuries across the team, but never isolated to one area of the pitch. City are also in a unique position where they've always had resources to handle those injury ‘crises’.
But let’s not let facts get in the way of making a half-baked point.
Very well put. I was a big fan of Ten Hag coming here after watching Ajax in the champions league. But everything you said echos my thoughts. Off the top of my head I can think of two maybe three dominant performances since Ten Hag arrived.
Arsenal lost the title last season when Saliba got injured. Imagine them losing Zinchenko, Gabriel, White and another two left backs.
Could be. I think there will be improvemt when Shaw return. Even more if Martinez do to.
But EtH will be under threat if Man Utd dont make top 4. And I think a coach like de Zerbi could be a threat to him too. Did not Nice hire one of his former assistants as head coach?
I really like EtH. I think he have done an important job in several areas. Messed up on some too. A bit unlucky with his timing. If he came a few years later, that could have been prevented (hopefully) by a better structure.
Agree.
But we need to accept that it's not black and white. He could be a good manager who demands extremely high standards from his players, and at the same time be unable to impose his ideas on the team. He's the kind of manager you want around your club, and it's a worry that player power could put his job at risk, but he's obviously struggling.
At the end of the day the job of a manager is to get his team to buy into whatever he's selling, and to get the best out of his players. At the moment he's failing at both. He also brought in a lot of new players so we can't just blame it on the old gang. The solution can't always be that we replace everyone.
I'm not looking forward to going to the games this week coming up. I think we'll just about scrape past Copenhagen and then get demolished by City.
We have nothing about us at all, which is disappointing given the amount of money we've spent and time the manager has had with the players.
We were 2nd to every loose ball until Sheff Utd tired after 60 minutes, we won get away with doing that next weekend.
We have nothing about us at all, which is disappointing given the amount of money we've spent and time the manager has had with the players.
We were 2nd to every loose ball until Sheff Utd tired after 60 minutes, we won get away with doing that next weekend.
I think our late season run was under appreciated if anything. We won like 8 out of the last 10 league games but it really wasn’t acknowledged because we had nothing really to play for and the wins didn’t mean that much. Plus it was camouflaged in predicting we would lose out next game every week and Liverpool would overtake us because we were the worst team in the history of the world
I’m split because part of me thinks the step up from the Dutch league to the Premier League was to big for him because there’s barely even been a glimpse of the football he had Ajax playing and how we are currently playing but I also feel we could be a consistently good team (maybe not good enough to win the premier league but consistent) if he makes some tough decision regarding certain players who are probably making it hard for him to play the way he actually wants us to play and we get some proper people doing the transfers.
Like I probably wouldn’t complain if he was to be sacked but this biggest downside to that is those lousy excuse for United players will all get yet another chance to stay at the club.
Like I probably wouldn’t complain if he was to be sacked but this biggest downside to that is those lousy excuse for United players will all get yet another chance to stay at the club.
Uh we had top 4 to play for at the end of last season, unless you're being sarcastic.
The turning point for most of the negativity was the Mount signing. Lots of fans wanted the Woodward-style marquee signing of Kane for whatever it took (likely £140 million), and to leave the midfield as it was last season.
Decimated them yet they finished 3rd and only 5pts behind arguably our best PL season since SAF left.
They admittedly lost their way after all the injuries but they recovered and made a push to finish the season very well. Even twatted us 4-2 at home near the end of the season with a centre back partnership of Rhys Williams and Nat Phillips. If you can tell me where both of those players are today without googling it, I’ll give you my life savings.
Yes every manager that we get need to have the highest standards while managing United. I was just pointing out that just because a manager has done well at other clubs, they don’t become automatically good at managing United.
What does that even mean? Moyes was Ferguson's. Pep has now reportedly told people De Zerbi will be City's next manager - it doesn't really amount to anything.