Television The Traitors (BBC) | If you've not watched it all, beware if you enter this thread as a bunch are talking without using spoilers

[buchansleftleg]

I do think the producers have manipulated this outcome very heavily by not having a final murder - Harry and Andrew would clearly have gone for killing Jaz at this stage which would throw suspicion onto Evie. She would then have to make the "leap of logic" on her own, to realise that Harry has set her up in order to flush out the traitors. On her own she would be concentrating on self survival, whereas now Jaz can help her make that leap.

I think Andrew will now decide who wins this series. If he tries to go for the win by knifing Harry in the back he will hand a win to the faithful because Molly also suspects him.

If he stays loyal to Harry then they need to target Jaz First - THEN Evie leaving them to outvote Molly and split the win. 50% is better than nothing but I'm not sure he can game theory it out and he might just think backstabbing is the way for a traitor to win



I think they need to have some different tactics to re-balance the game, as withdrawing the last opportunity to make a kill, without warning isn't fair on the Traitors. Is it me or have there been significantly fewer murders in this series?

 

[sebsheep]

I do think the producers have manipulated this outcome very heavily by not having a final murder - Harry and Andrew would clearly have gone for killing Jaz at this stage which would throw suspicion onto Evie. She would then have to make the "leap of logic" on her own, to realise that Harry has set her up in order to flush out the traitors. On her own she would be concentrating on self survival, whereas now Jaz can help her make that leap.

I think Andrew will now decide who wins this series. If he tries to go for the win by knifing Harry in the back he will hand a win to the faithful because Molly also suspects him.

If he stays loyal to Harry then they need to target Jaz First - THEN Evie leaving them to outvote Molly and split the win. 50% is better than nothing but I'm not sure he can game theory it out and he might just think backstabbing is the way for a traitor to win



I think they need to have some different tactics to re-balance the game, as withdrawing the last opportunity to make a kill, without warning isn't fair on the Traitors. Is it me or have there been significantly fewer murders in this series?

Same thing happened last series right? It's just the way they run the game.

 

[sebsheep]

It will all depend on how he does at the end. If his plan was to work out who they are but not say anything until the final then he's played a blinder. It means he can pre-work out who they are, not get murdered for suspecting them and then go all out in the final because it's only banishments. I just don't think he expected Harry to have such a firm backing at this stage.

What he does have going for him is that when they get to the point they can choose to end the game, a traitor has no reason to choose no. So if he does that people should realise he's safe.

Logical thinking hasn't been a strong point of the faithfuls though.

 

[Solius]

What he does have going for him is that when they get to the point they can choose to end the game, a traitor has no reason to choose no. So if he does that people should realise he's safe.

Logical thinking hasn't been a strong point of the faithfuls though.

Yeah if he's the only one chucking red into the fire then that surely proves him faithful. Evie could clock that but maybe not Mollie. Then again she actually showed some critical thinking in the last ep.

 

[Solius]

My prediction:

- Evie is banished at the table.
- Harry, Andrew, Jaz and Mollie at the firepit.
- All four vote red to keep going.
- Harry turns on Andrew, Mollie follows suit. Andrew goes and reveals he is a traitor.
- Harry and Mollie celebrate - cut to Jaz looking sus of Harry.
- Harry and Mollie vote green to end the game. Jaz goes last and it's red. Tries to get Mollie to realise it's Harry.
- This last bit could go either way but I think she sticks with believing Harry and votes Jaz out.
- Mollie reveals she is faithful, Harry then drops the bomb. Game over.

 

[Dumbstar]

My prediction:

- Evie is banished at the table.
- Harry, Andrew, Jaz and Mollie at the firepit.
- All four vote red to keep going.
- Harry turns on Andrew, Mollie follows suit. Andrew goes and reveals he is a traitor.
- Harry and Mollie celebrate - cut to Jaz looking sus of Harry.
- Harry and Mollie vote green to end the game. Jaz goes last and it's red. Tries to get Mollie to realise it's Harry.
- This last bit could go either way but I think she sticks with believing Harry and votes Jaz out.
- Mollie reveals she is faithful, Harry then drops the bomb. Game over.

In that case Jaz desperately needs Evie and convinces her to get Andrew out at the banishment. Mollie should follow suit.

Then it's Harry and thicko Mollie vs the other two. Mollie finally wins the money doing absolutely feck all and trying hard to lose it for everyone by siding with Harry.

 

[Schmiznurf]

If Jaz doesn't even try at the end he will go down as the worst player ever, sitting on so much at this stage is crazy.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

In that case Jaz desperately needs Evie and convinces her to get Andrew out at the banishment. Mollie should follow suit.

Then it's Harry and thicko Mollie vs the other two. Mollie finally wins the money doing absolutely feck all and trying hard to lose it for everyone by siding with Harry.

It's going to be tough convincing Evie, she seems to think Harry is great particularly after he refused to take the £7k.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Caught up on the last 2 episodes. Ross! It was so obvious he needed to get Andrew on side and he does the complete opposite, pretty much sums up how he played the entire game.

Seems to be a battle of Harry v Jaz now, either of them would be deserving winners. Difficult to see how Andrew wins from here, the faithfuls have doubts over him and Harry clearly will take any opportunity to get rid.

Also, if you haven't seen it yet the 2nd series of the Australian version is available now on iPlayer.

 

[VeevaVee]

Harry not taking the 7k was a great move as it would’ve planted seeds of selfishness which could’ve easily led to more discussion on him.

I have a feeling the Traitors are going to implode though, stabbing each other in the back and sewing enough seeds to let Jaz do the rest.

 

[Damien]

So 3 faithful and 2 traitors left. What happens if a faithful goes next? The traitors surely win then?

Harry and Andrew will surely win it if they work together and get Evie out but it feels like they’ll try feck each other over and one of them, probably Andrew, will go first. Then it’ll be Harry with the other 3 and it’ll depend on whether Jaz can convince the other 2, which I don’t think he will, and Harry will win it.

The thing is, I've seen zero indication that Harry would genuinely want to split the money. Seems to me he wants it all and knows that he is in the driving seat. I could see a situation where it goes down to the final three - Mollie, Harry, Jaz - Jaz is the only one who refuses to end the game and Mollie ends up voting him out anyway despite it defying all logic.

 

[Fully Fledged]

The thing is, I've seen zero indication that Harry would genuinely want to split the money. Seems to me he wants it all and knows that he is in the driving seat. I could see a situation where it goes down to the final three - Mollie, Harry, Jaz - Jaz is the only one who refuses to end the game and Mollie ends up voting him out anyway despite it defying all logic.

Spoiler

I think that Evie's only chance of making it out of the roundtable is to side with Jazz against Harry. If Andrew sides with them, they could possibly still get Harry out. I think the other 3 would turn on Andrew then as it would make it obvious that 'Elusive Gate' was an infight between 3 traitors. If they vote Evie out, I think Molly protects Harry and he wins the lot.

 

[sebsheep]

Spoiler: Traitors playing well vs Faithfuls being daft

Interested to hear where people draw the line on such things. Obviously we know who the traitors are so it can lead to a bit of bias, but still.

I remember seeing a lot of people saying Wilf played really well in season 1 and that Harry has played well in season 2. It's not that I completely disagree because the social aspect of the game is a very big part of things. Being able to make friends and get these people to trust you in a game all about find out who is lying to you isn't easy.
When I look at their other actions and the way the games have played out I just don't quite feel the same. I always think they should've been voted out before it got this far. The two examples above became too popular and considered "certified faithful" by too many for the traitors to not murder off at the first opportunity, yet Jaz is the only person across the UK series to even suspect anything.
Is it not just bad faithful play?

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

I do think the producers have manipulated this outcome very heavily by not having a final murder

I do think it’s important there is no murder on the last night.
If a traitor is banished at the penultimate round table and then the remaining traitor or traitors are forced to murder then the faithfuls know for sure that there is at least one left.

Spoiler

For example if Andrew had been banished last night, the faithful’s may have been convinced that he was last, as Mollie, Evie and Jasmine have zero suspicions of Harry. I know Jaz thinks differently but the majority might be happy to end the game at that point. But if Harry had been forced to murder then they know for sure they need to get another traitor before ending the game, so it becomes almost impossible for him to win

 

[LARulz]

I am tempted not to watch it live so I can fast forward a lot of this dull shit

 

[Globule]

I do think it’s important there is no murder on the last night.
If a traitor is banished at the penultimate round table and then the remaining traitor or traitors are forced to murder then the faithfuls know for sure that there is at least one left.

Spoiler

For example if Andrew had been banished last night, the faithful’s may have been convinced that he was last, as Mollie, Evie and Jasmine have zero suspicions of Harry. I know Jaz thinks differently but the majority might be happy to end the game at that point. But if Harry had been forced to murder then they know for sure they need to get another traitor before ending the game, so it becomes almost impossible for him to win

But the ordering was a murder, then the banishment, then no final night murder. If the banished person is a faithful then they still know there's a traitor in play.

Removing the final night murder only works as you suggest if they banish a traitor beforehand.

 

[Dan]

Spoiler: Episode 12

Jaz still can’t make his mind up about bringing up his Harry suspicions to the table.

 

[Smores]

Rooting for Jaz to find some balls here but reckon he'll risk being wrong over getting voted off himself.

 

[Glorio]

Unless my appreciation of 20 mins and what you can achieve in it is wrong, this seems like a bad idea

 

[Glorio]

Unless my appreciation of 20 mins and what you can achieve in it is wrong, this seems like a bad idea

Spoiler

Ended up Ok for them, but I feel they gave them a little extra time, at 22 secs they were nowhere near

 

[LARulz]

Oh feck off Jaz. Terrible questioning

 

[LARulz]

Spoiler

Harry should have thrown Andrew under the bus cos they know there is a traitor left. Get him out and end the game

 

[Glorio]

Oh feck off Jaz. Terrible questioning

There's not much more he could have done, I don't think, and he's not 100%

 

[Dan]

Spoiler: Episode 12

I think Andrew is done after that chat with Jaz.

 

[Glorio]

Andrew did have to fight for himself there, but his last minute conviction of Harry has given Jaz a massive boost.
If Jaz and Andrew get Harry out, Jaz has a chance of convincing Molly. Molly may be starting to suspect Harry just a little bit with her pointed threats which make Harry look really uncomfortable!

 

[LARulz]

There's not much more he could have done, I don't think, and he's not 100%

He never questioned how Paul got the exact wording from Harry if he never told him and made it up like Harry claims

 

[CallyRed]

Andrew has gone full guns blazing

 

[Glorio]

Andrew has gone full guns blazing

Jaz should have taken the opportunity, but he may be feeling safe that Molly's starting to waver on Harry.

It's a bad gamble though

 

[Glorio]

Mollie man ... Don't be a royal idiot!

 

[Massive Spanner]

Mollie ffs

 

[Glorio]

Jaz only had himself to blame. Should have voted with Andrew

 

[PoTMS]

Spoiler

Thank god Mollie didn't win a penny.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Spoiler

Why would Mollie vote for Jaz? He picked banish when it was clear that only a faithful would vote banish

 

[Glorio]

Spoiler

Why would Mollie vote for Jaz? He picked banish when it was clear that only a faithful would vote banish

Her last vote had no logic to it, it was all feelings

 

[Dan]

Spoiler: Episode 12

She had his name written down first.

 

[Riz]

Spoiler: Spoiler

How fecking thick is she? If she thought Jaz was a traitor then why on earth would he vote to banish again after they caught Andrew knowing that Mollie and Harry were faithful (in Mollie's view). If anything that cemented him as a faithful so Mollie should have just booted out Harry regardless of what she thought of him and guaranteed the W.

 

[LARulz]

Jaz only had himself to blame. Should have voted with Andrew

Yeah, and would have wanted to know what happens in a 2-2 vote

 

[sebsheep]

Spoiler

Why would Mollie vote for Jaz? He picked banish when it was clear that only a faithful would vote banish

She, like many in there, just doesn't seem to think about anything other than who they are friends with. Whatever she thought of Harry, it so obviously was not Jaz at that point because he has zero reason to continue the voting as a traitor.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Spoiler: Spoiler

How fecking thick is she? If she thought Jaz was a traitor then why on earth would he vote to banish again after they caught Andrew knowing that Mollie and Harry were faithful (in Mollie's view). If anything that cemented him as a faithful so Mollie should have just booted out Harry regardless of what she thought of him and guaranteed the W.

Yeah she’s an idiot. Gutted for Jaz because he was a good player but Mollie was a moron who didn’t deserve the final or any money. It would’ve been Meryl all over again.

Harry deserved it, played a great game throughout.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Her last vote had no logic to it, it was all feelings

Spoiler

Feel sorry for Jaz, he played the perfect game as a faithful, and lost out because of a dumb blond blinded by emotion.