Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

We won the FA Cup and sacked the manager because the club did badly everywhere else. Those kinds of standards for the club are gone now. Once we kept ETH on that was the death knell.
It wasn't the results with ETH. It was the dismal performances. Going on three years with no style and little enjoyment, except one or two games that were exceptions.

ETH wasn't strong enough to sort out a dressing room that felt it had more power than the manager. Like Ole, he was done by the players.
 
I think people are ignoring context too here: one of the reasons INEOS chose Amorim is because we can only afford to be a systems team for a few seasons. Ie, we can't compete on money terms with the top 5 or 6 in the prem for at least 2-3 years because of how much the Glazers have f*cked things up - so in that time you need a creative solution. The idea is that you can squeeze more out of a less expensive squad via the system. That sounds sensible enough to me. But any system requires players that fit it. People talk about bringing in managers that are succeeding in the prem with Bournemouth, or Brentford - well those teams are succeeding based largely on being physically better than everyone else. They run more, run faster and counter press better.

You think they'll be able to do that with these players? So even they need a big investment to get us to play their system. And Ancelotti's success is largely built on having an incredible set of players, and teasing out the confidence and mentality to turn that into trophies. We don't have those players either.

Amorim has been a success everywhere else he's coached. He is smart, articulate and a good 'face' for United. He has a clear idea - which he has sold to INEOS - and which requires players to implement.

You simply cannot judge that kind of project without seeing it with the players. You have to give him 5 or so in the summer and see what happens.
 
I really like the guy and he speaks soo well. But the truth is Europa League campaign is the only thing which is making him not look completely out of his depth. He better wins it otherwise he will be under extreme pressure and if he does not start with flying form next season, he will be gone like ETH in Nov/Dec.

There is no other way to sugarcoat that our league form is borderline relegation and we can try to make as many excuses for him but ETH had a same squad last season with Mctominay and Rashford part of it. We have added Zhirkee, Maz, De Ligt, Dorgu and Ugarte to it. If he managed 8th last season then even with the formation adjustment and new players he should have managed top half finish.

I have never been a 3 at the back fan and nothing will convince me otherwise. These few glaring issues are always existent when I watch us and it boils down to this formation:

1) Center backs circulating the ball along themselves.
2)It’s just too defensive, it allows other teams to pin you back because you are numerically at disadvantage
3) forward become isolated as less options in midfield and upfront.
4) one less attacking player.

I just think with this club it will never work for him. Hopefully he proves me wrong but Manutd as 5 at the back just does not sound right. If you see the pattern we only start playing well once he takes the handbrakes off and puts wingers as full backs etc.
 
No matter it hasn‘t clicket yet, Ruben is not annoying me at all - anyone else feeling like this?
Eth when we were shit annoyed the hell out of me with his interviews, subs, way of acting.
He doesn't annoy me because I don't watch the interviews he does or press conferences. So I'm not being swayed by any charisma or whatever. I've been judging him mostly by the horrible results and slight fluctuations in performance where sometimes we look like a capable team.
 
I really like the guy and he speaks soo well. But the truth is Europa League campaign is the only thing which is making him not look completely out of his depth. He better wins it otherwise he will be under extreme pressure and if he does not start with flying form next season, he will be gone like ETH in Nov/Dec.

There is no other way to sugarcoat that our league form is borderline relegation and we can try to make as many excuses for him but ETH had a same squad last season with Mctominay and Rashford part of it. We have added Zhirkee, Maz, De Ligt, Dorgu and Ugarte to it. If he managed 8th last season then even with the formation adjustment and new players he should have managed top half finish.

I have never been a 3 at the back fan and nothing will convince me otherwise. These few glaring issues are always existent when I watch us and it boils down to this formation:

1) Center backs circulating the ball along themselves.
2)It’s just too defensive, it allows other teams to pin you back because you are numerically at disadvantage
3) forward become isolated as less options in midfield and upfront.
4) one less attacking player.


I just think with this club it will never work for him. Hopefully he proves me wrong but Manutd as 5 at the back just does not sound right. If you see the pattern we only start playing well once he takes the handbrakes off and puts wingers as full backs etc.

You've summed up all the problems with this formation well. I absolutely detest it, especially at OT playing 5 bloody defenders.
 
He'll be fine given a couple of decent attackers and with Amad back.

He's got the worst / least experienced United squad since the 1980s and he's come in mid-season with morale on the floor and had to try and implement an entirely new system whilst playing two games a week.

The Newcastle anomaly aside, we have actually been performing much better as a unit for around two months now. We just don't quite have the results to back it up because we are missing Amad and desperately need a CF.

Case in point, we conceded one shot on target vs Bournemouth and one shot on target vs Wolves. Keep doing that and results WILL come eventually
Someone who talks sense at last.

I also think we were marginally the better team versus Forest, Arsenal, City and even Newcastle in the first half. Incredible how many times we concede from the opponents first shot on target.
 
Because the players at Man Utd are much better than the players at Leicester. Despite the shocking form and what it suggests.
Yep, player quality matters. By far and away the main reason we find ourselves bottom half.
 
Yep, player quality matters. By far and away the main reason we find ourselves bottom half.
You're saying everyone was wrong in rating the players as capable of finishing in the top 7 at the start of the season?

I'm sure you predicted us to finish in the bottom half right?
 
The exact same team yesterday with Cunha for Garnacho and Delap instead of hojlund probably wins 0-3.

Garnacho missed a sitter. The kind of chance you have to score at this level. Mount was unlucky because his shot was easily beating the keeper.

I've seen Bournemouth take the piss out of us in a few games recently but yesterday we matched them physically and for workrate and we created many more attacking situations than them, even before the red card.
 
The exact same team yesterday with Cunha for Garnacho and Delap instead of hojlund probably wins 0-3.

Garnacho missed a sitter. The kind of chance you have to score at this level. Mount was unlucky because his shot was easily beating the keeper.

I've seen Bournemouth take the piss out of us in a few games recently but yesterday we matched them physically and for workrate and we created many more attacking situations than them, even before the red card.
We were tied on xG before the sending off.
 
You're saying everyone was wrong in rating the players as capable of finishing in the top 7 at the start of the season?

I'm sure you predicted us to finish in the bottom half right?

I urge you to understand what point Jim is making here and you'll have your answers:

“If I look at the salary bill of the squad that’s available to him, that salary bill is not the salary bill of Manchester City or Liverpool, it’s a fraction of it. If you look at the salary bill of the players that are available to him that are not injured, or not out on loan, because we’ve got, you know, we’ve got Antony out on loan, we’ve got [Jadon] Sancho out on loan, we’ve got [Marcus] Rashford out on loan, we’ve got Mason Mount who hasn’t really played in the last two seasons, we’ve got Luke Shaw who hasn’t played in the last two seasons.
So if you modify our salary bill for the players that are not available to Ruben, then our salary bill ranks us about, you know, middling, second half of the table."

In other words, I would first want to know if the players everyone was rating as capable of finishing 7th, at the start of the season as you put it, are the same players/squad that have been available to Ruben and actually on the pitch playing.
 
I urge you to understand what point Jim is making here and you'll have your answers:

“If I look at the salary bill of the squad that’s available to him, that salary bill is not the salary bill of Manchester City or Liverpool, it’s a fraction of it. If you look at the salary bill of the players that are available to him that are not injured, or not out on loan, because we’ve got, you know, we’ve got Antony out on loan, we’ve got [Jadon] Sancho out on loan, we’ve got [Marcus] Rashford out on loan, we’ve got Mason Mount who hasn’t really played in the last two seasons, we’ve got Luke Shaw who hasn’t played in the last two seasons.
So if you modify our salary bill for the players that are not available to Ruben, then our salary bill ranks us about, you know, middling, second half of the table."
This is a good point. We can rightfully ask questions about how the club allowed it to get to this point, but that is not on Amorim. It isn't that much on Ineos either, and it is good that it is something the higher ups are aware of.
 
Nah sorry. Antony was just crap. Let's not pretend it was a system or manager letting him down in the PL, he was individually utterly terrible.

I 100% disgree sorry, first year he was decent.

Second year started shite due to the allegations and if you look at his thread, everyone was enjoying his cameos in the second half of the season, scoring v Liverpool etc.

He’s back again showing his worth in La Liga.
 
I 100% disgree sorry, first year he was decent.

Second year started shite due to the allegations and if you look at his thread, everyone was enjoying his cameos in the second half of the season, scoring v Liverpool etc.

He’s back again showing his worth in La Liga.
His biggest issue was being watched through the transfer fee microscope. He'd have been regarded as a decent yet unspectacular signing if he was brought in for 40m
 
I urge you to understand what point Jim is making here and you'll have your answers:

“If I look at the salary bill of the squad that’s available to him, that salary bill is not the salary bill of Manchester City or Liverpool, it’s a fraction of it. If you look at the salary bill of the players that are available to him that are not injured, or not out on loan, because we’ve got, you know, we’ve got Antony out on loan, we’ve got [Jadon] Sancho out on loan, we’ve got [Marcus] Rashford out on loan, we’ve got Mason Mount who hasn’t really played in the last two seasons, we’ve got Luke Shaw who hasn’t played in the last two seasons.
So if you modify our salary bill for the players that are not available to Ruben, then our salary bill ranks us about, you know, middling, second half of the table."
I don't think people were rating the squad's quality on the basis of Jadon Sancho and Mason Mount.

Also, is it even true? United still have very expensive players who are available, like Casemiro, Bruno, Maguire, etc.
 
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I really don’t think the super talents of Garna and Amad, coupled with Bruno Fernandes, Rashford and Antony are anywhere near as poor as you are making out.

:lol:

Super talent Garnacho who has scored 5 PL goals all season, 3 of those against relegation opposition, and routinely sends balls into row Z because of his atrocious finishing.

Amad who has only played a grand total of 13 PL games under Amorim, and showed how stupid ETH was to not be playing him.

Bruno plays as much in CM than he does in the attack.

Rashford and Antony - god you really are scraping the barrel now. And I don’t care if Antony is performing better in Spain, he ain’t cut out for the PL. Most of us have eyes and don’t need to reframe the past just to make a point. He was useless for us. As for Rashford, literally the best thing Amorim has done was get rid of him. Good riddance to his terrible, sulking, can’t be arsed attitude.

So yes, the worst United attack in living memory. We have Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho. Horrible. The likes of Mateta and Eze would walk into our attack.
 
His biggest issue was being watched through the transfer fee microscope. He'd have been regarded as a decent yet unspectacular signing if he was brought in for 40m

Agreed, all he’s doing in Spain is reproducing his first season form with us.
It’s been enough to help Betis be the second best team in Spain since he joined (32% of the season).
The same form helped us to 3rd and a league cup.

For 40m everyone would’ve been pleased, but annoyed last year ended up so spoiled.
 
:lol:

Super talent Garnacho who has scored 5 PL goals all season, 3 of those against relegation opposition, and routinely sends balls into row Z because of his atrocious finishing.

Amad who has only played a grand total of 13 PL games under Amorim, and showed how stupid ETH was to not be playing him.

Amad played 13 PL games for Amorim and lost 7 of them, things for Amorim weren’t better with him so let’s not pretend they were.
And didn’t ETH start Amad in 4 of the first 5 games? So in fact, Amorim showed EtH nothing. Amad simply showed ETH and Ruud that he should play, by the time Amorim came it was a no brainer.

And yes, Garna is a super talent. But hey man, feel free to shit and laugh on your academy players cause of your new favourite manager, who has done absolutely nothing for the club.
 
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You're saying everyone was wrong in rating the players as capable of finishing in the top 7 at the start of the season?

I'm sure you predicted us to finish in the bottom half right?
8th. But we do have 2 years of data now where the underlying statistics have us around 13th-15th so I realise it was optimistic.
 
I find it amusing that some posters still seem insistent on measuring Amorim’s success against the standards of an elite club.

We’re a bottom half club with players who have zero ambition and a playing style that seems at odds with the technical ability of the current set of personnel. We’ve also let some of our more supposedly established players leave (Rashford, Sancho etc) albeit for good reason.

We’re so far away from a top 4 finish that it’s almost guaranteed we won’t be there next season even with new additions as the gap between us and the top 6 widens. The club has been mismanaged for far too long and the damage will take an incredibly long time to reverse.

You can sack Amorim and then the guy after that and the one after that too, but at least be realistic on the standards you’re assessing them against.
 
Amad played 13 PL games and lost 7 of them, things for Amorim weren’t better with him.

And yes, Garna is a super talent. But hey man, feel free to shit and laugh at that cause of your new favourite manager, who has done absolutely nothing for the club.

No wonder the squad is in the state it’s in when we have fans claiming the likes of Garnacho and Antony are super talents. Garnacho would be a squad player in our PL winning squads of the past, at least until he worked out how to finish. Here he is one of our main attacking outlets.
 
The main thing for me is he took over a team who over-performed to even get 8th last season and reverted to their mean which got ETH sacked. We've then slightly regressed points-wise and position-wise in the league but I do think we look more of a cohesive team who know what they're doing.

The team before Amorim were chaotic and open and as a result this would help us win a few games but we'd also get battered at times too. The team I see now looks more tactically astute, the forward play is slowly improving but it just takes longer than a lot of people are willing to give. Currently we're losing games by small margins because everything is pretty even, but that will change as the players get more and more used to the system and we get better more suited personnel in.
 
Someone who talks sense at last.

I also think we were marginally the better team versus Forest, Arsenal, City and even Newcastle in the first half. Incredible how many times we concede from the opponents first shot on target.
I would go as far as to say we weren't marginally the better side vs Forest or Arsenal, we were much the better side.

Forest had one opportunity and scored, Bournemouth had one opportunity and scored...you can't even really call the Wolves free kick an "opportunity".

This won't go on forever. It's statistically highly improbable that teams continue to score so many goals against us with such low xG.

Now, as we know - we have big problems going the other way...but we made a choice, collectively as a club and a fanbase, to allow our two most senior attackers to leave on loan in January for the long term benefit of the club...and then our best remaining attacker gets injured for the season.

We're not good, but we're not lucky either. You could go as far as to say we're very unlucky. Soon, that luck will turn. Add in two more experienced forwards and these narrow defeats and draws will turn into wins very quickly.
 
Agreed, all he’s doing in Spain is reproducing his first season form with us.
It’s been enough to help Betis be the second best team in Spain since he joined (32% of the season).
The same form helped us to 3rd and a league cup.

For 40m everyone would’ve been pleased, but annoyed last year ended up so spoiled.
Those are some really rose tinted glasses with respect to his first season form. He started well by getting a few goals early, but then he quickly turned very useless. Of course, the perception of Antony is being influenced by the transfer fee, but he was poor regardless. After scoring in his first three PL games, he got 1 goal and 2 assists in the next 22. He contributed almost nothing in attack. Both Martial and Sancho had better output in the league.
 
No wonder the squad is in the state it’s in when we have fans claiming the likes of Garnacho and Antony are super talents. Garnacho would be a squad player in our PL winning squads of the past, at least until he worked out how to finish. Here he is one of our main attacking outlets.

Oh feck me, I never called Antony a super talent.

Garna clearly is, but sure, keep shitting on him.
 
And yes, Garna is a super talent. But hey man, feel free to shit and laugh on your academy players cause of your new favourite manager, who has done absolutely nothing for the club
Garnacho is at best, as you say, a "super talent". He's not a super player, that much is for sure. I would argue he's a level below a super talent, but that's not the point.

There again is Amorim's major issue, aside from the lack of general physicality - he's fielding a team of kids every week. 'Super talents' maybe, but not as productive as seasoned professionals like Chris Wood, Mateta, Cunha, Solanke and Isak.

Show me another team with an age profile like ours...arguably our best available XI contains Yoro (18), Dorgu (20), Garnacho (20), Mainoo (19), Hojlund (22 last month), Ugarte (23)...it's very unusual to be that reliant on youth in key positions like CB, CM and CF.
 
You're saying everyone was wrong in rating the players as capable of finishing in the top 7 at the start of the season?

I'm sure you predicted us to finish in the bottom half right?

That's a very static way to look at things but there's a range given form. A young inexperienced team has an even bigger range, this lot on form in a 4231 absolutely can finish top 6 but it doesn't mean they always will.

Add in the conditions of Rashford not in the team, Hojlund and Zirkzee unable to score goals, Garnacho underperforming, Antony gone and injuries ruling out Amad and Shaw for most of the season. I don't think many would have said top 7 given those conditions.

None of that list taken independently would have even be a shock as a prediction. We all knew the concerns it's just they've all happened together.
 
Those are some really rose tinted glasses with respect to his first season form. He started well by getting a few goals early, but then he quickly turned very useless. Of course, the perception of Antony is being influenced by the transfer fee, but he was poor regardless. After scoring in his first three PL games, he got 1 goal and 2 assists in the next 22. He contributed almost nothing in attack. Both Martial and Sancho had better output in the league.

I don’t judge players solely on output. Check his thread from that season and I along with many others constantly back his importance for balance, defensive work and as our best outball as the hardest player to dispossess.
He was the ying to Rashford’s yang, a more careful player compared with the mad rush of a Rashy or young Garna.
 
I don't think people were rating the squad's quality on the basis of Jadon Sancho and Mason Mount.

Also, is it even true? United still have very expensive players who are available, like Casemiro, Bruno, Maguire, etc.

Yes it's true. Also, people did not eliminate two expensive players in key positions and move on with no context.

In Sancho's case, the situation was obviously untenable , and most people correctly expected Amad to emerge, remain fully fit for the majority of the season (did not happen), and replace him in the squad. Also by January it seemed incomprehensible that a replacement for Sancho, this time with a player that would justify their salary, would not be signed. This was clearly factored in from the posts I would read.

For Mount, it was definitely in peoples evaluations whether we would have a fully fit Mount for, at least 50-75% of the season. If that played out, I am certain his impact would have been huge, considering Rubens particular fondness of him. Again, I'm also pretty sure people factored in a possible replacement or cover to be signed in the event he had another injury prone season.
 
I 100% disgree sorry, first year he was decent.

Second year started shite due to the allegations and if you look at his thread, everyone was enjoying his cameos in the second half of the season, scoring v Liverpool etc.

He’s back again showing his worth in La Liga.
He was rubbish. Not judging players solely on output is fine but when it's a winger or wide forward in modern football that is the main crux of their responsibility as a player. He then started to offer little of value in other aspects of the game too.

I also think his start at Betis is being overhyped due to how bad he was at United.
 
Oh feck me, I never called Antony a super talent.

Garna clearly is, but sure, keep shitting on him.

I’m not shitting on him, i’m saying a guy who has only scored 5 goals all season (3 of those against relegation teams), and has shown he is not yet a polished finisher, should not be relied upon as one of our most important attackers, if we want to be seen as a top team in the league. That kind of output would be squad player material when we were competing for titles, particularly when he’s only 20. It’s really not that difficult. Your defence of Antony is even more laughable.
 
In Sancho's case, the situation was obviously untenable , and most people correctly expected Amad to emerge, remain fully fit for the majority of the season (did not happen), and replace him in the squad. Also by January it seemed incomprehensible that a replacement for Sancho, this time with a player that would justify their salary, would not be signed. This was clearly factored in from the posts I would read.
Amad has played in over half of United's PL games and more than half of their EL games. He's been available most of the season. I would say this did happen.
 
I don’t judge players solely on output. Check his thread from that season and I along with many others constantly back his importance for balance, defensive work and as our best outball as the hardest player to dispossess.
He was the ying to Rashford’s yang, a more careful player compared with the mad rush of a Rashy or young Garna.
Neither do I. Goals and assists certainly aren't everything, but they tell a big part of the story. The problem is that he also did not beat his man, make incisive passes or dangerous crosses to help the team offensively. You know an attacking player does not pose a threat when you have to resort to "defensive work" and "difficult to disposses". Those should really be prerequisites - not strengths to highlight.

It was quickly pretty clear that Antony is a complete dud. He is not physically a match for the Premier League, and it showed.
 
I would go as far as to say we weren't marginally the better side vs Forest or Arsenal, we were much the better side.

Forest had one opportunity and scored, Bournemouth had one opportunity and scored...you can't even really call the Wolves free kick an "opportunity".

This won't go on forever. It's statistically highly improbable that teams continue to score so many goals against us with such low xG.

Now, as we know - we have big problems going the other way...but we made a choice, collectively as a club and a fanbase, to allow our two most senior attackers to leave on loan in January for the long term benefit of the club...and then our best remaining attacker gets injured for the season.

We're not good, but we're not lucky either. You could go as far as to say we're very unlucky. Soon, that luck will turn. Add in two more experienced forwards and these narrow defeats and draws will turn into wins very quickly.
So many can't see this. I know XG isn't everything but we have had higher XG for the past 3-4 games. Our finishing just seems to let us down every time in PL. I hope our luck turns soon I can't tell why Garnacho or Hojlund have suddenly gotten so bad at finishing. Let's hope Europa brings us some cheer.
 
I 100% disgree sorry, first year he was decent.

Second year started shite due to the allegations and if you look at his thread, everyone was enjoying his cameos in the second half of the season, scoring v Liverpool etc.

He’s back again showing his worth in La Liga.

Antony is a baller. I saw it for Ajax. The spins mid game didn't help his case though.
 
I think we as fans such all accept that he’s been far below even the most pessimistic of expectations, if he doesn’t win the Europa League then let’s just call it what it is, a massive failure. He’s been wank.
Amorim, despite his talks of us having to suffer, would certainly agree.

I think 100% of other top clubs would replace him in June with Frank or Ancelotti, and most tops clubs tend to do better than us.

But his likeability factor even has me thinking like a stupid United fan, that it’d be a shame to not get in some of the players we desperately need regardless and see how the first quarter of next season is.

If he starts just as negative (with 6-7 defensive players) and results/performances are just as poor, even with new signings, feck him off asap and bring in Ancelotti.
Would that not effectively mean writting off another season? Sure, in theory, a quality manager (would there be any available 9 or so games into the season?) might/should galvanize the team. Even if Amorim continued with similar haul of 1ppg, the gap to top 4-8 would not be too big at that stage.

But can you imagine that circus leading up to Rubens sacking: players confidence already shattered, Ineos panicking in search for a new coach or interim, some heads (Berrada or/and Wilcox) possibly rolling..

When such a change happens at a Crystal Palace during campaign sometimes I wouldnt even notice. With United thats a feckin open season to attack the club puting way more pressure on the people in charge, players and all.

If United dont win EL and end up PL season on all time low then a change Must be done straight away. Giving poor Ruben a pre-season, some new players, then sack him after the first quarter of next season would be a disaster exceeding levels of ETH fiasco.

(I would also forget about Ancelotti, aside from his world class credentials, he looks totally spent now, even his percieved charisma making players work their utmost for him doesnt seem to be there anymore).
 
Would that not effectively mean writting off another season? Sure, in theory, a quality manager (would there be any available 9 or so games into the season?) might/should galvanize the team. Even if Amorim continued with similar haul of 1ppg, the gap to top 4-8 would not be too big at that stage.

But can you imagine that circus leading up to Rubens sacking: players confidence already shattered, Ineos panicking in search for a new coach or interim, some heads (Berrada or/and Wilcox) possibly rolling..

When such a change happens at a Crystal Palace during campaign sometimes I wouldnt even notice. With United thats a feckin open season to attack the club puting way more pressure on the people in charge, players and all.

If United dont win EL and end up PL season on all time low then a change Must be done straight away. Giving poor Ruben a pre-season, some new players, then sack him after the first quarter of next season would be a disaster exceeding levels of ETH fiasco.

(I would also forget about Ancelotti, aside from his world class credentials, he looks totally spent now, even his percieved charisma making players work their utmost for him doesnt seem to be there anymore).

Christ can we please end this sacking of Amorim nonsense. He’s not going anywhere, even if we don’t win the EL. He will be given the summer to bring in players to fit his system. End of story.
 
Good evening mates, I hope you don´t take my presence here in a bad way, I will try to understand more about your team prior to our next match later this week, I would like to comment you about my team as well in the post Athletic Club - Manchester United but seems that need to post in other places before.

As a person that has not followed his career before I´m not confident about what we can expect, I think that this head coach may be a good option on the long term but starting with passing game from the defense may kill you on that semifinal as Athletic in famous for his presure on the opposite box. Do you think he will keep trying to pass the ball from the central back defenders as well?

PD: I was there in 2012 and will be back on the second game, just hope to have a nice day as we had the last day, Manchester United is well respected in Bilbao and I remember how we clapped some of your players on the second match in the old San Mames such as Giggs (what a legend!) or Rooney.

Wish you the best of luck out of this eliminatory.
 
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