If you're Ole in, how much time will you give him?

Should have been sacked already and replaced with someone with more experience. This is as good as it gets with Ole in charge. A couple of wins to fool you into thinking everything is great, then bam, when it comes to delivering, failure of the top order.

ghagua said:

Should have been sacked already and replaced with someone with more experience. This is as good as it gets with Ole in charge. A couple of wins to fool you into thinking everything is great, then bam, when it comes to delivering, failure of the top order.

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Staggering he ever got appointed on a permanent basis in the first place but that was down to ex Utd players screaming for it in the media.

End of the season, top 4 he stays, otherwise he goes, simple as that.

I do think he has a plan, and it's a plan that I agree with.

But in terms of being sacked it's a question of the owners priorities, which I think are continue to qualify for the CL, and continue to see the money flow in, fail to do that and you're gone, actually winning trophies, I don't think that even comes into the conversation.

Eyepopper said:

End of the season, top 4 he stays, otherwise he goes, simple as that.

I do think he has a plan, and it's a plan that I agree with.

But in terms of being sacked it's a question of the owners priorities, which I think are continue to qualify for the CL, and continue to see the money flow in, fail to do that and you're gone, actually winning trophies, I don't think that even comes into the conversation.

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I just don't see the point in carrying on with this experiment wherever we finish this season but know that is an unpopular view with the sentimentals

Sentiments aside, if we had done this at the end of last season when the whole world knew he is not a top-tier manager, we would have already given the new manager enough time (and the summer window) to mould the team according to his impressions.
Like always, the usual dilly dallying will cost us so much.

croadyman said:

Staggering he ever got appointed on a permanent basis in the first place but that was down to ex Utd players screaming for it in the media.

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That utter embarrassing statement from Rio Ferdinand after the PSG win. I knew the club was going to appoint him after that and straight after that appointment was some of the most horrid football post SAF.

I hate this notion the club has. He should be sacked regardless if he gets top four or not. Why delay the inevitable?

Some think he should be sacked regardless.

Should he be sacked if we win the league? Surely no?

What if we finish second, ahead of at least one of Liv or City? Surely not sackable?

What if we miss out on second and finish third by a whisker with more points than last season?

The fact is, we don’t need to improve that much to achieve one of the above. Just tightening up a bit at the back and starting games more solidly will take care of that. We are not as far away as some would have you believe. Our record over the last 24 games proves it.

Well done again to all of you posters that have turned this into exactly the same argument as the other 93 threads.

This is why people stop posting, or opening new threads.

I’ll get it back on track for you Bilbs....

He’s done just enough in the league to be given December & see where we’re at. If we’re doing well come Jan, he should get the season. If our form takes another nosedive after our CL exit and Poch is our target*, he should be gone in Jan.

* if Poch aint the target, may as well give him the season and let the new guy come in the Summer.

Just your daily update... I am going to continue to beat the same drum - the club will not be successful, regardless of the manager, until the Glazers and Woodward are gone.

Give him the season. If we're still losing the same easy games, making the same stupid mistakes, or just kiss out on top four, then we should finally sack him after what has seemed like a couple of decades of him being at the wheel.

KiD MoYeS said:

Just your daily update... I am going to continue to beat the same drum - the club will not be successful, regardless of the manager, until the Glazers and Woodward are gone.

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As much as we all detest those names you mention, are you seriously telling me that a good manager can't get some success out of the players we have and the amount they will get to spend? Absolute horse shit.
We outspend pretty much every club in the world, every season almost. Woodward has massive failings, but we can't say managers aren't backed.
Look at clubs that play well and are competitive that spend a fraction of what we do - it makes you point laughable.
We had success in some measure with LVG and Jose. They didn't work but we won things. We won't with Ole despite our outlay on players....we haven't even visibly improved. But yeah.....it's the boards fault not Ole's.

Bilbo said:

Well done again to all of you posters that have turned this into exactly the same argument as the other 93 threads.

This is why people stop posting, or opening new threads.

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Exactly this, read the thread title FFS! There is already a sack Ole thread so go and bloody debate it in there. Fecking taking their bile into every thread it seems.

The game against RBL has seriously put some doubts in my head. I really thought that he would be sacked after it but it looks like the board trust him.

If we look at the big picture, he's definitly improved us and he is still improving us.

I think that, we should give him the rest of the season and support him with a signing or two to complete his squad. It certainly feels like we're not far from challenging again, last year we were 3rd and had 3 semi-finals in the cups.

So while i would not want him sacked right away, i think that renewing his contract at the end of the year would require him to finish in the top four and at least win something this year.

There is still work to be done on this team and this squad, and considering how far we have come since Ole took over, I am behind him to continue the overhaul of the team. We have weeded out the majority of players not up to the task and have replaced them well. There is more work to do there and I trust it will be done.

Our actual league form since Jan 2019 is either the best in the league or second only the scousers, which surely shows progress over a long enough time frame for it not to be a run of form. There is consistency in results, if not as much in performances right now. The players would not be making the series of comebacks we have recently if they were not fighting for the club, the team and the manager. We have seen our players down tools very easily over the past 7 or so years but that has not been the case.

We were miles away with an utter shambles of a squad when Jose rightly got to boot. We needed a refresh and at the time I think most people knew this would take time and success would not be instant. We're getting there but it is a long road. We were so much worse than we are now. Our style of play was far more negative, our squad was significantly worse and morale was at an all time low. It is not easy for anyone to go in and turn that around overnight.

I see the number of people clamouring for Poch to be the saviour but he has won the same as Ole - nothing. He consistently chose not to chase any cup wins and focus on the league which of course he didn't win, got to a CL final and a few semi's elsewhere but came unstuck, outthought or outwitted by the opposite manager each time. He built a decent squad at spurs but then allowed the team to regress and eventually ran out of steam. There is nothing that he has achieved that convinces me that he is the right man to take charge. He might get us playing some nice patterns of play, but all the fans opposing Ole are calling for us to win every game and every competition we enter so it makes little sense.

I would keep him until 2023 as long as we qualify for the champions league each year and there is noticeable improvement.

Deep down I think he’d like to play the kids in Europe and go out but the media backlash wouldn’t allow it.

We must show character and beat city this weekend.

dal said:

I would keep him until 2023 as long as we qualify for the champions league each year and there is noticeable improvement.

Deep down I think he’d like to play the kids in Europe and go out but the media backlash wouldn’t allow it.

We must show character and beat city this weekend.

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That's way to generous my friend.

Harry Harries said:

While we're at it, Moyes has still got another 5 years left on his contract to prove himself. We'll let Ole have his two more years then let Moyesy have his turn again.

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Idiocy at its finest. Moyes was proveably shit and deserved to be fired. You have to be high as a kite to place Ole in the same bracket.

Relfy said:

I see the number of people clamouring for Poch to be the saviour but he has won the same as Ole - nothing. He consistently chose not to chase any cup wins and focus on the league which of course he didn't win, got to a CL final and a few semi's elsewhere but came unstuck, outthought or outwitted by the opposite manager each time. He built a decent squad at spurs but then allowed the team to regress and eventually ran out of steam. There is nothing that he has achieved that convinces me that he is the right man to take charge. He might get us playing some nice patterns of play, but all the fans opposing Ole are calling for us to win every game and every competition we enter so it makes little sense.

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Awful time to put down the guy who made a CL final in favour of the guy who just crashed out of the group stage. I don't know if a manager like Nagelsmann has or hasn't won anything but I damn sure know lack of trophies wont put him on Ole's level. I mean I too haven't won any cup in england so maybe Poch, Ole and I are on the same level

hungrywing said:

As disturbing as some of his decisions are, he deserves at least until the end of this season, and objectively, three full years as in the above post.

We all need to always drill it in into our heads to remember that he's working under incredibly poor upper management.

Yes, it's possible that a Nagelsmann or Rose or Klopp could turn this exact squad into world-beaters while largely ignoring/negating Woodplop.

But at the same time, think of any time you've had to row or swim against the current, or drive a getaway car with two shredded tires, or scale a rock face with a goat draped over your shoulders. That's what working under Woodward can be like.

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I largely agree.

Personally I DONT get the ludicrous impatience amongst out fans. It takes 3 to 5 years under 1 footballing direction to build a club into a force. Every time it gets to 2.5 years, at the first sign of not quite getting there we see folks baying for us to go back to in your marks with yet another manager. Then wonder why on earth it's taking so long to catch up to others who are doing well

I don't even see the fuss about exiting the UCL. No one can lie that they saw us as favorites to get out of a UCL group of death with 2 semi finalist from last season. Teams that gave been in the UCL more than us over the last 5 seasons. We gave them a run for their money and lost out last minute. I count that as progress.

People are acting like we are in utter disaster mode. Yet we are 5 of the top of the domestic league, with a game in hand. Even after an awful start due to no more season. We have the best away record in the league. Are still in both cups and still in Europe. I honestly daily to see the reason for such angst and doom and gloom.

I'm personally sick and tired of United changing footballing direction like the Israelites wandering in the wilderness in the bible. I honestly do not care of ole is the man to get us to the promise land. At the very least I want him to be given amplé time to get us insight of the 'Jordan River". Before we start looking for replacements. For once let a manager bloody finish his contract.

Greck said:

Awful time to put down the guy who made a CL final in favour of the guy who just crashed out of the group stage. I don't know if a manager like Nagelsmann has or hasn't won anything but I damn sure know lack of trophies wont put him on Ole's level. I mean I too haven't won any cup in england so maybe Poch, Ole and I are on the same level

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He made a uCL final whilst having an utterly awful domestic campaign. Pochetino is so bloody overrated it's untrue. Best decision levy did was to bin him for Mourinho.

One factor that probably doesn't get considered enough in this rabid frenzy for change is just exactly who we would change Ole with. People name the obvious names all the time, but without really considering whether they are even available, would want to come here, or whether they are even a good fit for this squad. We all agree that the reason we fell away was down to two things. Poor recruitment, and a lack of continuity. These things killed us, but people are all to willing to roll the dice again as soon as possible.

If a manager is sinking and taking the team down with him then you just get him out at any costs. Basically what we did with Mourinho. This is different. Its not perfect under Ole but there are still clear signs of progress. @Bobcat posted some stats from Reddit which are very positive. A lot of fans still feel fairly positive about where we are heading. Not without some unanswered questions, but positive nonetheless. The point is, its very different to the situation under Mourinho. We are nowhere near that position at all. So in that instance you would only really consider a change if you were absolutely certain that it was an upgrade, and nobody has ever made a halfway compelling case that there is an obvious upgrade out there. Before anyone mentions Poch, give it up. He's been available for a year now. United don't want him.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:

He made a uCL final whilst having an utterly awful domestic campaign. Pochetino is so bloody overrated it's untrue. Best decision levy did was to bin him for Mourinho.

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Overrated, bottler, serial loser but most importantly he's a better manager than Ole

Eyepopper said:

End of the season, top 4 he stays, otherwise he goes, simple as that.

I do think he has a plan, and it's a plan that I agree with.

But in terms of being sacked it's a question of the owners priorities, which I think are continue to qualify for the CL, and continue to see the money flow in, fail to do that and you're gone, actually winning trophies, I don't think that even comes into the conversation.

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That's not enough for me now. Top 4 and a good run in CL maybe. But the CL is gone now and we are back to the shit that is Europa.

Whilst I have been an Ole advocate, I am no longer and think he should be replaced now. It's nothing to do with tactics for me, I think we have been largely ok on that front and the style of our football is pretty good for a team that has no world class wide players. Remember the days of LVG and Jose when we would create one chance ever 2 matches!! No thanks.

The problem for me is that Ole's personality is now evident in the team, which it should be 2 years in, howver that personally is just too nice and too passive and we lack that aggression or forcefullness or meanness. I dont think Ole can instill that and we need somebody who can.

As a slightly side note, thise calling for Ole out which now includes me, should be grateful for the work he has done and remain respectful to the legend that he is. Our football is so much better, squad is so much better....think of Darmain, Sanchez, Fellaini, Pierrea all gone. The improvement in Fred, arrival of Bruno, introduction of Greenwood. We are a much better team now than when he arrived.

Greck said:

Overrated, bottler, serial loser but most importantly he's a better manager than Ole

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It's fine not to want Poch in as our manager but some actually don't rate him. It's rather ironic when it's someone that thinks Ole is good enough. I mean how can you rate Ole but not rate Poch?? Where is the logic?? Can't imagine where Tottenham will be if it was Ole that took over that Tottenham team years ago

I don't know. I wish we beat Istanbul and got to the round of 16 and if that had happened, I'd still back Ole in spite of losing to PSG and Leipzig but just because of the ridiculous game against Istanbul, I think we need a change in management. I know it is ridiculous to think of sacking Ole just because of one match but that game is the reason we are out of the CL and are downhill in terms of confidence and I think it will affect this team in a big way going forward.

For me he's got till the end of the season at least. A lot of people are saying it's not great right now, yet we are only 2 points off 1st with a game in hand. That may well change this weekend against City, but I don't see how we can sack a manager when we are seemingly still in the running for a title challenge. If we go on another run like when he took over, or during the lockdown period, we will be right up there, so it feels ludicrous to say we should be sacking a manager already.

I accept there are some glaring problems. We need to seriously and quickly improve our home form plus our poor starts to matches. We've had games this season where it looked like we'd start well, only after 5-10 mins we dip back into the same mistakes/routines, even the Spurs game the initial start was lightning, then we left it behind us. The fact we seem incapable of having a good or even solid first 45 minutes to a match is worrying. But this is a relatively recent problem so I don't see why we can't fix it.


Also, I remember at some point there was talk of 3 windows with 3-4 signings in each, 8 or 9 players needing to be added if I remember? So far we've arguably had 6 of those additions. I'm discounting Cavani in that as to me is a short term option, and not part of that original plan. I'm also ignoring both Diallo and Pellistri, they both look like youth signings, not immediately part of the senior squad.

Whether that plan involved a replacement for Pogba, or he wanted to keep him at the club, I don't know. If we say 9 including the replacement, we are looking at 3 more signings. Some of the performances this year, bearing in mind we are supposedly 3 off having a complete squad, are absolutely concerning. I can understand why people are worried. But the mistakes we are seeing can't simply be put down to the manager, I personally can't just pin the current issues on him, there is more to it than that, the players, coaching staff, and Ole all take blame on that which is why I give him time to fix whatever has gone wrong.

He'll get to the end of the season, that's guaranteed. And if we try to think 'big picture' from the club's perspective it makes sense.

That gives Ed 6/7 months to plan out the structure of the club to move it up a level. Feel out other managers, discuss with the board the direction (do we want young and dynamic, or premier-league proven?) and then lay the ground work to get them in as soon as Ole is out. They could even bring in a DoF now, to start working towards the players that will fit into the system of the next manager, or to fit into the 'United system'. Then the players and new manager can all be in place and ready to have a great preseason, solidfying the squad as a group and really setting us up for success.

I know, parody is easy and lame.

In reality, Ed will spend the next 6 months doing whatever it is he does with each day, wait until Top 4 is mathematically impossible, fire Ole, put in Carrick and Phil Jones as he's on the books anyway and then start calling agents of out of work and past it managers to see who might be available. We'll sell Pogba to Juve, use the money to cover the covid losses and ensure the dividends get paid and then sign whichever 35 year old's contract just expired (maybe Modric this time?) on deadline day, claiming victory at the twitters.

Greck said:

Awful time to put down the guy who made a CL final in favour of the guy who just crashed out of the group stage. I don't know if a manager like Nagelsmann has or hasn't won anything but I damn sure know lack of trophies wont put him on Ole's level. I mean I too haven't won any cup in england so maybe Poch, Ole and I are on the same level

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We did crash out from a position where we should never have done so. Let's not forget however that the group we entered contained last years finalists and semi-finalists. We were not drawn into an easy group. Let's also remember that the CL final Poch did reach, he shoehorned an injured Kane into the starting line-up which ultimately cost them as it affected their setup. I don't wish to derail the conversation on the CL group as I am sure there are better places for that chat to take place.

soapythecat said:

As much as we all detest those names you mention, are you seriously telling me that a good manager can't get some success out of the players we have and the amount they will get to spend? Absolute horse shit.
We outspend pretty much every club in the world, every season almost. Woodward has massive failings, but we can't say managers aren't backed.
Look at clubs that play well and are competitive that spend a fraction of what we do - it makes you point laughable.
We had success in some measure with LVG and Jose. They didn't work but we won things. We won't with Ole despite our outlay on players....we haven't even visibly improved. But yeah.....it's the boards fault not Ole's.

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So you want Ole out, I get it... who makes that decision? It isn't us. It's the Glazers and Woodward. The club will continue to sit at this level, with some odd seasons they challenge above or below expectations but expectations are top four. That comes from the top, no manager can change that.

And by the way, anyone frustrated at all the Ole Outers jumping in here, are you really surprised the loudest ones seem incapable of reading?

bond19821982 said:

Not saying Poch. Infact I prefer Hassenhuttl or Rose above Poch. But we need a better option than Ole and that's the point.

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That's one of the main issues for me at the moment.


I wouldn't trust this board, owners, woodward or whenever making the right call, to even make the right decision.



Been saying a while most appointments even Poch is a gamble for me than what we have at the moment. Point base we've been one of the best since December, scoring goals, football been by far best I can remember since fergie.

I feel like Poch would be samey samey and we would be back to same place we are now. Which is good in my opinion. Sitting nice in the league.



All this is assuming Ole going to be leaving soon which is not the case at all.

I've flittered between the two positions. I'm in the out camp now. Our team makes the same mistakes, players not being bothered, individual mistakes, no game plan, no consistency in play. Buck has to stop with the manager. We have a decent squad, it could be better but it's not a trainwreck. The only thing that bothers is who the replacement will be. I don't know who'd be ideal. Also I don't like how we don't have a DoF. Why are we persisting with the old school approach?

Dan600 said:

And by the way, anyone frustrated at all the Ole Outers jumping in here, are you really surprised the loudest ones seem incapable of reading?

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Good point. This place must be incredibly difficult to moderate. Censorship would kill this forum quickly, but having said that there needs to be a remedy found to this problem. It shouldn't be too much to ask to have a single thread exist that is addressed to people that are supportive of the management not get spoilt by the angry keyboard warriors, but its impossible the way things are. The Ole out posters should moderate themselves and stay out of a thread not created for them.

KiD MoYeS said:

Just your daily update... I am going to continue to beat the same drum - the club will not be successful, regardless of the manager, until the Glazers and Woodward are gone.

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Yeah how do we ever hope to be successful when the manager has different aims to the board and ends up being constantly undermined

Zlatattack said:

I've flittered between the two positions. I'm in the out camp now. Our team makes the same mistakes, players not being bothered, individual mistakes, no game plan, no consistency in play. Buck has to stop with the manager. We have a decent squad, it could be better but it's not a trainwreck. The only thing that bothers is who the replacement will be. I don't know who'd be ideal. Also I don't like how we don't have a DoF. Why are we persisting with the old school approach?

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We are probably not willing to take a modern approach because that would mean WOODY admitting he isn't up to the job and losing his power which by the looks of it he won't allow to happen

nickm said:

I'll take the Poch that took a nothing Tottenham side to consistent four top 4 finishes in 5 seasons and a champions league final despite a limited transfer budget for most of those years. The Poch who built the club you see today, developed great players, made Tottenham a fast, modern, hard working side to be feared - their best manager in years. He's a manager I think is made for us.

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Come on. Its not like Spurs were some farmers club full of cloggers who he single handedly lifted from the ashes.

Their rise on the table also conveniently coincides with Fergie and Wenger resigning so two of the traditional big four taking a nose dive in terms of league position. They came 4th twice under Redknapp and in 12/13 they ended up 5th, one point less than Arsenal under Villas Boas, who most regard as a pretty bad manager

Bilbo said:

I think people need to let their emotions settle because nobody thinks straight on a night when we go out of the CL.

Ultimately the manager always carries the can, but as usual with this team there is so much good and so much bad to reflect on. I think we've been in parts very unlucky and also very naive. Sometimes brilliant and sometimes piss poor. Individual errors have cost us badly.

The reality is that we just aren't ready to compete at this level yet, and how much of that is down to the manager is a tough thing to judge, but as above, the manager carries the can. Thats the job.

I'm not writing Ole off yet. Far from it. He's done too many good things for it to be fair to call him a busted flush. However, going out tonight puts pressure on him. We must now have a very good league season. A good CL run was his safety net and thats gone.

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Great post. Need a good league season indeed. I guess the thread calls for an objective evaluation of "good". What do you reckon?

Andi Latte said:

I'm pretty Ole out and have been for the best part of a year, yet there's one thing he could to to make me inclined to give him till the end of the season: switch out his coaching staff. Carrick and McKenna are amateurs, Phelan is a dinosaur and already was under SAF. I only fear that won't happen, as it would require balls, which I have seen no indication of so far in regards to Ole.

Honestly, every manager post SAF gets loaded with these Fergie-guys with no pedigree whatsoever except they "get the club" or some shite like that. Moyes and Van Gaal got Giggsy, Jose got Carrick and now Ole, one of the aforementioned Fergie-guys himself, gets three others that are as clueless as him. How is that supposed to work?

Get some top guys from far outside the club to bring in fresh impulses, instead of trying to bring back the Fergie times, they're gone and won't come back, regardless of how many ex-players you try to squeeze into coaching roles.

That would make me give him more time, as it would show that he really tries something different, not only talk about it.

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Another good post that I missed previously. Definitely need some solid, experienced coaches with a proven pedigree. Doesn't necessarily mean firing what we already have, does it? There are bonds that these coaches have with the players, something which Rui Faria was good at when working for Mourinho. Maybe it's not a coincidence that Mourinho lost the dressing room when Rui Faria quit.

Ole, or "Fergie-guys", can stay if they are good enough, nothing wrong with that at all. They can provide the general direction for the club, which is what senior management and leadership is supposed to do in any institution. It doesn't even have to be a "Fergie-guy", we just need someone who "gets the club", for what else is there that distinguishes United from other clubs? We just need who:
- will place significant importance on the Academy and promote (local) youth
- play good football
- contends for most, and wins some trophies

And this is essentially where the talk of having a football structure comes in, doesn't it?

Considering that we failed to improve our starting 11 between seasons, I find it hard to believe that we will do much better in the league this season. We should expect similar results.