I think he never wanted this Chelsea move from the start. He was just depserate to leave to anyone after United deal failed. He looks uninterested and not wanting to be there anymore. Not sure if he's good or not, but for the sake of his career and even Chelsea, they need to part company asap.
Álvaro Morata | Performances
- Thread starter Brwned
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He's really bad, we dodged a bullet bigtime here. I mean, Rom has hardly been world-class but Morata makes him look like prime Shearer.
Tbf you did call it. You were spot on about him from day one. I remember you and @Raoul having a load of back and forth about him. Wasn’t there a bet involved at some point?!
Out of a possible 3,420 league minutes, he played 1,319 (39%) in his first season and 1,455 (43%) in his second season. In that second season he shared the spot with Mandzukic who played 2,050 (60%), and to some extent Dybala who played 2,464 (72%). He was a backup target man with good cup form.He played 2k minutes+ in his two seasons at Juventus, 2 league titles, 2 Coppa Italias, started the 14/15 CL final and played 85 minutes and scored in it, also in the CL team of the season that year. Always contributed well at both Juventus and Real Madrid. Granted he's never been a 20-30 goal a season striker. We've tried to give him a different role and it hasn't worked.
He can play a very valuable part of a team though if he's used to his strengths and right mentally. Even during his time in England he's still managed to win more domestic trophies than Kane and Lukaku put together.
The situation he got himself in at Juve was almost exactly the same as it is now. He wasn't good enough in his 1st season to nail down that top spot and generally underwhelmed as a target man, so they brought in an experienced, reliable player who could be a real targetman in the 2nd season to at first challenge him, and ultimately to replace him. In your case it was Giroud and he was needed 6 months in, in their case it was good ol' Mario.
I'm not criticising Chelsea for taking a chance on him. For me he had more potential than Lukaku, if he was able to overcome that major mental deficiency. That was a really big question that many people, particularly @Raoul, had decided he'd already answered based on his role as a back-up striker at Real Madrid, despite the fact that the mental challenge is totally different. It was possible he would carry on his form from that one season in special circumstances, but in my view it was more likely he'd revert back to his form before then. It was open to debate at least.
I don't understand how it's still being debated now. What he's doing at Chelsea now is so similar to what he was doing in every season except 16/17, that it makes no sense to describe this as anything other than his norm. He might well kick on at a next club, but that can't be characterised as returning to form - that's him making a step up that so far he hasn't been able to do anywhere since becoming a professional.
Probably the only prediction thread I've made about a player that worked out! 1 in 20 is a lot better than 0 in 19 so I'll take it...
He didn't agree to the bet in the end, sadly! He's a man with strong opinions but he's not silly enough to risk money on those views...
Is this the same Morata from Juventus? He was never a great goalscorer but he was hustling on the pitch, running around, making defenders work hard.
He looks so fecking soft at Chelsea.
He looks so fecking soft at Chelsea.
At Juve he had this great ability to drive forward. I remember a CL game against Madrid or Bayern where he took on the whole of the team and passed to (Cuadrado?) to score. At the time he had scored in big CL games so I just assumed he'd be another in the Spanish production line of excellent players. Seems to have lost that completely. He's incredibly restrained now.
That's just the highs and lows of confidence. He was never someone you could rely upon to be aggressive or beat a man consistently, only when he was in the mood. He often wasn't but he had a few big moments in the CL that showed how good he could be if he pulled it all together consistently. He'd often go back to the league and look feeble and disinterested.
In fairness dribbling is one of those things that all players have to be confident to even try. When you're in a low that's one of the first things to drop off a cliff. We saw that with Rooney, or we're seeing it now with Sanchez. Dribbling and goals are really the only two things you need to be in a confident mood to do. And he is an unusually good dribbler for a big striker. Which is why Morata's confidence issues were always so problematic. You strip away his two best qualities and you're not left with much.
Aggression on the other hand is just something that's there regardless. Costa could be in the worst form but still he'd be relentless. Morata like any other big striker enjoyed being able to bully defenders, and he had those games, but he was never someone to do that week in, week out.
Clearly he's in a place now where he isn't loved by the manager or fans, and he's struggling to get himself out of a rut. He needs much more support, but also space to work through those struggles without adding more pressure. That's why a bench role at Madrid was perfect.
His problem at Chelsea is that they keep trying to use him like a poacher and want him to stay central when he is more a Benzema than a Ruud. He would do better in a system that allows him more freedom to roam.
Still consider him an overall better player than Lukaku
Still consider him an overall better player than Lukaku
Fair enough. I should point out I barely used to watch him play (just the 4 high profile CL game) hence my formerly high opinion.
That is precisely why I loved Costa and Rooney. No matter how poor they were they gave it everything in the hope that something would come off. Also Suarez and Tevez.
In a 5 a side game, very probably.
In actual football, and especially in England, not a chance in hell.
Aye I barely watch any league football beyond United these days but I was still watching a fair bit of European football a few years ago. He was really impressive in a few CL knockout games which makes me think he might still be an elite striker, he just has a lot of work to do. In fairness no attacker enjoyed playing under Conte and Sarri's system is built for a different kind of forward.
We all miss that about Rooney and Tevez! We definitely don't get that with Lukaku. He's somewhere in between Berbatov and Rooney on the aggression scale...it's hard to know where! Sometimes he's decent, sometimes poor...never in full flight it seems!
Fair enough to the lad since he got two goals, but does anyone have a gif of his epic miss? One of the worst I've ever seen.
I've never seen a striker that misses as many sitters as this guy.
Holy shit. That’s worse than Ronnie Rosenthal’s!!
The linesman was too stunned to raise the flag
That's identical to Ronaldos miss v Sunderland
That's incredible. Still think Torres' miss was worse because he'd brought it under control and had so much of the goal to aim for...but that's not far behind. Had plenty of time to see it, wasn't in an awkward position and it was so hard to get that kind of lift on it!
Seems to be more happy being a reserve at Real Madrid than being first choice anywhere else for some reason (with talk he might go back there).
I don't think he's a bad striker actually, makes nice runs off defenders at times but much like Torres he disappears if he's not in good form.
I don't think he's a bad striker actually, makes nice runs off defenders at times but much like Torres he disappears if he's not in good form.
The last angle is worst. The ball disappears off screen before it goes past the crossbar.
Edinson Cavani says hello ...
The only thing @Brwned gets wrong in his assessment of Morata was his period at juventus: he was initially Llorente's backup(in part due to a long injury picked up literally the first day of training) before beating him to the starting spot and becoming a regular starter in the second half of the season. Then he was their starter the following season only for Dybala and Mandzukic to beat him for the two spots withing a couple months. Then juventus chose to spunk €90m in transfer fee and €14m a year in wages on Higuain rather than try and buy him for good from us
He's just not consistent enough to be the main striker at a club like chelsea, and now he's completely lost confidence, which in the current situation it won't be easy to regain. Interestingly confidence was never an issue at either Juventus or with us, even though he didn't play much and often ended up being a backup. Chelsea seem to have a special talent in this regard
He's just not consistent enough to be the main striker at a club like chelsea, and now he's completely lost confidence, which in the current situation it won't be easy to regain. Interestingly confidence was never an issue at either Juventus or with us, even though he didn't play much and often ended up being a backup. Chelsea seem to have a special talent in this regard
Hmm, I guess there are still chances for me to become a pro. I did the same just two weeks ago.
We dodge a major bullet
I know you're based in Italy but if be very surprised if the majority of Juve fans agreed with you that he didn't lack confidence. We're talking about a player who didn't score 1 goal in November, December or January in 14/15 or 15/16. Unless you think Juve were so creatively devoid in that period, then he was doing many things wrong that all stem from confidence.The only thing @Brwned gets wrong in his assessment of Morata was his period at juventus: he was initially Llorente's backup(in part due to a long injury picked up literally the first day of training) before beating him to the starting spot and becoming a regular starter in the second half of the season. Then he was their starter the following season only for Dybala and Mandzukic to beat him for the two spots withing a couple months. Then juventus chose to spunk €90m in transfer fee and €14m a year in wages on Higuain rather than try and buy him for good from us
He's just not consistent enough to be the main striker at a club like chelsea, and now he's completely lost confidence, which in the current situation it won't be easy to regain. Interestingly confidence was never an issue at either Juventus or with us, even though he didn't play much and often ended up being a backup. Chelsea seem to have a special talent in this regard
As for your correction, it doesn't contradict anything I said. He became a regular, failed to live up to the burden of a first choice #9 and was then replaced. The similarity to his Chelsea career is striking. I didn't comment on what came before that, or why he was initially signed.
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There is something fecked up with this kid. I mean he throws on the ground way too easily at each physical battle. He is a pussy, you need a minimum of fight to make it at a certain level.
Lukaku.
What happened that summer they respectively moved for big money, surely everyone who closely follow them in their previous club should know that they wasn't worth that much.
Lukaku isn't any better.
Never seen a player look so unhappy after scoring two goals. Really odd guy.
Think he clearly hates playing for Chelsea now.
Don't blame him.
Don't blame him.
Million dollar answer. Cavani does miss some easy ones.
But Torres in his Chelsea days wins it for me.
Not as many as Morata to be honest
Main reason he wasn't scoring was he wasn't starting many games. The other is that, as we both said, he's inconsistent. But the urgency and hunger were always there. He was still trying stuff, still making his presence felt. He's never gone through such a prolonged bad spell like this before. The loss of confidence he seems to have suffered at chelsea is nothing like what he went through previously
He wasn't like this with juventus either. Still remember him physically bullying Varane. Started doing it with us, go figure. Though not to this extent of course
He was like a one man team at Juve in the CL sometimes, used to shrug people off and dance around them with the ball. That was quite a while ago though.
Still while at Juve, he would eulogize about Real Madrid and his Serie A record is 7-8 goals per season.
Would be a good backup for Madrid again. They couldn't refuse a large offer but he did add something worth while to their season.
Still while at Juve, he would eulogize about Real Madrid and his Serie A record is 7-8 goals per season.
Would be a good backup for Madrid again. They couldn't refuse a large offer but he did add something worth while to their season.
He is, he really really is...his scoring record proves that.
Morata looked like he was going to blubber.
He is way better