[meamth]

randomly scrolling through twitter and found this exchange between Liverpool fans:

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hilarious to me because I often see them making fun of our midfield, but now that Martial is bagging it’s “he has Pogba & Bruno. Firmino doesn’t get any service”

Hilarious because 80% times in a game, Martial was busy pressing and playing others into good positions, he rarely being the one at the end of it.

But when he had 1 chance to score, 9 out of 10 he will convert.

 

[Lj82]

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Not enough attention given to that pull back for Greenwood. He showed strength to hold off a defender, excellent skill and close control to hold the ball, great vision to spot Greenwood, and perfect technique to thread a perfectly weighted pass through a number of defenders to Greenwood.

 

[Sayros]

Not enough attention given to that pull back for Greenwood. He showed strength to hold off a defender, excellent skill and close control to hold the ball, great vision to spot Greenwood, and perfect technique to thread a perfectly weighted pass through a number of defenders to Greenwood.

He always seems to create at least one chance per game like that. Out of the three forwards, he's the one I trust the most to make the right decision.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Hilarious because 80% times in a game, Martial was busy pressing and playing others into good positions, he rarely being the one at the end of it.

But when he had 1 chance to score, 9 out of 10 he will convert.

Isn’t there a stat floating around that Martial has taken about 40% less shots than Ibra, Lukaku and Rashford did for the same amount of league goals?

He’s a very economical player, and while it hurts his stats a bit, that’s very important for our team as a whole.

 

[POF]

Yup pretty much this, but for some reason you have people all of a sudden prasing him for the things he's been doing since he came here. For those that watch the game more closely he is always making those sprints behind the defense but like in the past, our MF's aren't sending the ball.

It's massive revisionism to say that. He absolutely wasn't. The talent was always there but the movement and intensity was missing in his game. Off the ball movement in particular was a huge weakness.

The type of striker Ole specifically targeted (Igalho/King) was to provide a different dynamic to Martial. A player with better movement and ability to hold up the ball.

Improving the culture at the club has had a huge impact on Martial. He's bought into it and has improved significantly in those areas. He has improved his intensity and is getting far more involved.

He's scored some amazing goals this season but my favourite thing he's done was when he bullied Mings off the ball and started the counter attack for Greenwood's goal at Villa.

He was always consistent. When he plays games he scores goals. Regularly.

He's never been the type of player who'd fill his boots by banging in hat tricks against cannon fodder. That's the only thing missing - if he starts banging a few more hat tricks in, he'd be a goal a game striker.

He's one of the most inconsistent players I've seen at United. Amazing talent and when he's on he has always had the talent. But throughout his time at United he would disappear from games and hardly touch the ball for 20-30 minutes.

Martial is a follower, not a leader. He's unlikely to thrive in a poor culture with losing mentality. Ole deserves huge credit for the improvement in Martial's game. There is far more character in this squad now.

It's also telling the improvement in the intensity of his game since Bruno joined the club. Bruno is the Roy Keane of this current team. Very vocal and doesn't let the standards slip.

Some fantastic signs from Martial of late. You can tell he's working really hard on his game and is transitioning from talent and promise to a really effective player. If he can continue on this same path, he could be an absolute star.

 

[lenny_1248]

I really wanted him to be sold, felt he let too many games pass him by.

He looks like a completely different player since the lock down. Playing like a proper number 9, holding up the ball, barely losing it and playing with a real intensity which he definitely lacked before. Really happy for him, as there’s always been a player in there somewhere

He's better, but not a completely different player. It's just nonsense.
He was generally good all season. Even in pre-season you could see his improvement in his pressing etc. Except the first games w/o Rashford and an odd game like against Everton (when he came after his injury) he was very good. And he played half a season w/o no service whatsoever. You just needed him to score in basically every game to dismiss your stupid agenda.

 

[kouroux]

Not enough attention given to that pull back for Greenwood. He showed strength to hold off a defender, excellent skill and close control to hold the ball, great vision to spot Greenwood, and perfect technique to thread a perfectly weighted pass through a number of defenders to Greenwood.

On his left foot that pass, it was great play

 

[Feed Me]

The way he’s playing now shows that we were only ever seeing a minor glimpse of his capabilities for so long. He’s being an effective point man in attack, knitting our play together, holding his own in physical duels, assisting and scoring stunners. The consistency of his goal output has also massively increased since the lockdown.

 

[lumeyes]

Hated the journalist's agenda today asking question to Ole that Martial could be invisible in a game and then pop out to give a moment of brilliance like that.

Ole responded with an annoyed face "I saw martial the whole game, I know what he was doing".

Feck those agendas saying he has no impact to the team as a whole.

It's indeed sad what journalism has become these days. I get it that as humans we have our sentiments but we are also meant to be objective in certain positions. Invisible when Greenwood could have scored a wonderful goal from his fantastic play, when he contributed in the build up to Rasfords goal, and other instances of link up play, pressing and even falling deep to pick up the ball. All in the first 45 minutes. There have been accusation that the press - British in this case - are so biased against people from the "other side", and they are constantly doing their best to validate this opinion. Just checked Garth Crooks' "team of the weak" section and have confirmed two things

1. Martial isn't on the current list inspite of his excellent play vs Crystal Place. But Harry Kane is. Perhaps he is right in his selection as I didn't watch Kane play but I find it worrying that his argument for Kane included perfect positioning to score his first goal, courage for the second, and his reaching 200th league goal. Maybe his selection is justified and I am being biased but
2. Pogba has never appeared in his post-lock down selection. That I can't seem to understand

 

[Web of Bissaka]

He always seems to create at least one chance per game like that. Out of the three forwards, he's the one I trust the most to make the right decision.

Football intelligence.

 

[berbatrick]

He wasn’t the same for lvg as he is now. He is much more mature now.

His first start for lvg was Southampton, he showed exactly what he's showing now. 2 goals, including one where he turned VVD both ways, and holding the ball up easily back to goal.
He obviously wasnt as consistent, and because of the team (Rooney must play, Depay failed) he was shifted to the wing later. But he was genuinely good for an 18 year old then, showing all the raw stuff that's come together now in a much better team. Also is interesting that his best spell as a winger also came under LvG, with a worse team than Jose had. Wonder if it's because of how LvG asked him to get isolated and dribble in, while with Jose both wingers drifted in without the ball, there was less structure to the team.

Edit- really did a lot of damage to VVD all game

 

[Keefy18]

It's massive revisionism to say that. He absolutely wasn't. The talent was always there but the movement and intensity was missing in his game. Off the ball movement in particular was a huge weakness.

Actually, he was. His numbers were still very respectable considering the overall issues as a team.

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The type of striker Ole specifically targeted (Igalho/King) was to provide a different dynamic to Martial. A player with better movement and ability to hold up the ball.

Improving the culture at the club has had a huge impact on Martial. He's bought into it and has improved significantly in those areas. He has improved his intensity and is getting far more involved.

He's scored some amazing goals this season but my favourite thing he's done was when he bullied Mings off the ball and started the counter attack for Greenwood's goal at Villa.

Well, when you've played as a LWF / LW for two and a bit years then there is going to be a period of transitioning back again to the CF role and the duties it involves. I don't think Ole doubted his ability to hold off defenders and prove himself to have great passing ability in turn, simply it would take time.

He's one of the most inconsistent players I've seen at United. Amazing talent and when he's on he has always had the talent. But throughout his time at United he would disappear from games and hardly touch the ball for 20-30 minutes.

Not true at all, his returns for goal involvements (goals & assists) are some of the best in the league at various points even prior to this season.

His debut season here for LVG was fantastic, he dropped off a bit the season after but that was due to niggling injuries and a number of personal issues off the pitch.

The way Jose treated him was nothing short of an absolute feckin disgrace and he robbed Tony of a World Cup winners medal! His form in the 17/18 season from Aug-Jan was superb considering the mins afforded him.

Just to break down some numbers (facts) for you.

Between Aug 17 & 31/01/2018 (Sanchez debut) Tony had the below numbers:

• He played a total of 1449 mins football across Premier League, Champions League, League Cup & FA Cup
• He scored 11 goals
• He set up 8
• 1449 mins of football is just barely over 16 games of football
• He was involved in a goal every 84 mins.
• Between August 17 and Jan 18 he finished a whopping 3 full 90 mins of games because Jose messed him around constantly either benching him or hooking him off the field approx every 56 mins.
• He then manages only a singular goal involvement after Sanchez's arrival and playing fewer mins thanks to Jose signing him.

The kid was performing and his returns were some of the best around in Europe and that is matter of fact the hard truth. If being involved in a goal every 84 mins is "inconsistent" then you must not understand its meaning.

Martial is a follower, not a leader. He's unlikely to thrive in a poor culture with losing mentality. Ole deserves huge credit for the improvement in Martial's game. There is far more character in this squad now.

Except he's leading now?

 

[Quinzaine]

It's massive revisionism to say that. He absolutely wasn't. The talent was always there but the movement and intensity was missing in his game. Off the ball movement in particular was a huge weakness.

The type of striker Ole specifically targeted (Igalho/King) was to provide a different dynamic to Martial. A player with better movement and ability to hold up the ball.

Improving the culture at the club has had a huge impact on Martial. He's bought into it and has improved significantly in those areas. He has improved his intensity and is getting far more involved.

He's scored some amazing goals this season but my favourite thing he's done was when he bullied Mings off the ball and started the counter attack for Greenwood's goal at Villa.



He's one of the most inconsistent players I've seen at United. Amazing talent and when he's on he has always had the talent. But throughout his time at United he would disappear from games and hardly touch the ball for 20-30 minutes.

Martial is a follower, not a leader. He's unlikely to thrive in a poor culture with losing mentality. Ole deserves huge credit for the improvement in Martial's game. There is far more character in this squad now.

It's also telling the improvement in the intensity of his game since Bruno joined the club. Bruno is the Roy Keane of this current team. Very vocal and doesn't let the standards slip.

Some fantastic signs from Martial of late. You can tell he's working really hard on his game and is transitioning from talent and promise to a really effective player. If he can continue on this same path, he could be an absolute star.

It's sad that you can't see how much of a leader Martial has become in this team. Just because he's not the loudest it doesn't mean he's not a leader, Rashford and Martial have been leading this team for quite some time now and it's been especially evident in the last 3 league games where Bruno and Pogba have dropped a level and Greenwood's age has shown. In terms of the limited amount we get to see as fans It appears to me that Maguire, Bruno, Pogba Rashford and Martial are the most influential members of the squad for different reasons.

 

[kaiz]

Except he's leading now?

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

 

[KennyBurner]

It's massive revisionism to say that. He absolutely wasn't. The talent was always there but the movement and intensity was missing in his game. Off the ball movement in particular was a huge weakness.

The type of striker Ole specifically targeted (Igalho/King) was to provide a different dynamic to Martial. A player with better movement and ability to hold up the ball.

Improving the culture at the club has had a huge impact on Martial. He's bought into it and has improved significantly in those areas. He has improved his intensity and is getting far more involved.

He's scored some amazing goals this season but my favourite thing he's done was when he bullied Mings off the ball and started the counter attack for Greenwood's goal at Villa.



He's one of the most inconsistent players I've seen at United. Amazing talent and when he's on he has always had the talent. But throughout his time at United he would disappear from games and hardly touch the ball for 20-30 minutes.

Martial is a follower, not a leader. He's unlikely to thrive in a poor culture with losing mentality. Ole deserves huge credit for the improvement in Martial's game. There is far more character in this squad now.

It's also telling the improvement in the intensity of his game since Bruno joined the club. Bruno is the Roy Keane of this current team. Very vocal and doesn't let the standards slip.

Some fantastic signs from Martial of late. You can tell he's working really hard on his game and is transitioning from talent and promise to a really effective player. If he can continue on this same path, he could be an absolute star.

Isnt it obvious he disappears because we have nobody to get him the ball? Against crystal palace first 20 minutes he wasnt even involved because mctominay and lindelof couldnt progress the ball quick enough. Then you have bruno who made 5 bad forward passes in a row. That has always been the case with him. he cant do anything if the guys behind dont turn up.

Im also not buying this shite statement about he is not a leader. How you have made this statement makes no sense. Nobody thrives in a poor culture with losing mentality or whatever that means.

 

[KennyBurner]

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

fernandes is a quality attacking midfieder. his job is too create chances. That first goal was not just down to him but martial and rashford. Mctominay also played a huge part in getting the ball through to fernandes which was the start of the attack.

We still struggled with fernandes till matic came on by the way. he was the worst of our midfielders on the day regardless of the assist.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

Fernandes was poor against Palace. Rashford and Martial turned the game for us.

 

[Quinzaine]

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

Fernandes has been poor for the last two games and we'd have won both if it wasn't for a a last minute brainfart in defending a corner. Our best players in those two games were Rashford and in particular Martial. The only thing that seperated us and Palace was that we had Rashford/Martial. Bruno has done an amazing job for us and has provided so much good for the team as well as players individually (Pogba, Martial etc.) but as amazing an impact as he's had, the narrative that he is single-handedly carrying us is becoming slightly lazy especially when you look at the last 3 fixtures where it's our front line that has come to life.

 

[Keefy18]

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

Nah, Bruno has been quite poor the last 2 games. His passing wasn't up to it vs Palace (73% acc) and Southampton (74% acc).

I've no idea how Hoddle on BT commentary awarded him the MOTM award, Martial, Rashford, Maguire and De Gea we're far better than Bruno vs Palace.

But to address the idea that Bruno lead us to that victory is so incredibly ridiculous.

The lay off from Martial to Bruno was superb and Bruno plays a very simple pass to Rashford who is left with a lot of work to finish that first goal, to leave Van Aanholt flat on his ass. That goal isn't from the work of Bruno really at all, his part in it was minimal.

The 2nd goal he nutmegged the defender with a nice pass but again, lovely lay off from Rashford to Martial who has the strength to fend of Van Aanholt and again finishes beautifully.

Bruno is a very good player and no doubt he has lifted spirits around the club but I think we really are just blowing smoke up his ar$e at times cause its the honeymoon phase.

 

[La Pioche]

Just think Tony is a Player that needs 100% the believe and trust of his manager. He will have bad games but thats the case for every number nine in world football. But with his abilitys he will get us some silverware with his goals and partnership with Rashy. No doubt about that.

 

[POF]

Actually, he was. His numbers were still very respectable considering the overall issues as a team.

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Well, when you've played as a LWF / LW for two and a bit years then there is going to be a period of transitioning back again to the CF role and the duties it involves. I don't think Ole doubted his ability to hold off defenders and prove himself to have great passing ability in turn, simply it would take time.

Not true at all, his returns for goal involvements (goals & assists) are some of the best in the league at various points even prior to this season.

His debut season here for LVG was fantastic, he dropped off a bit the season after but that was due to niggling injuries and a number of personal issues off the pitch.

The way Jose treated him was nothing short of an absolute feckin disgrace and he robbed Tony of a World Cup winners medal! His form in the 17/18 season from Aug-Jan was superb considering the mins afforded him.

Just to break down some numbers (facts) for you.

Between Aug 17 & 31/01/2018 (Sanchez debut) Tony had the below numbers:

• He played a total of 1449 mins football across Premier League, Champions League, League Cup & FA Cup
• He scored 11 goals
• He set up 8
• 1449 mins of football is just barely over 16 games of football
• He was involved in a goal every 84 mins.
• Between August 17 and Jan 18 he finished a whopping 3 full 90 mins of games because Jose messed him around constantly either benching him or hooking him off the field approx every 56 mins.
• He then manages only a singular goal involvement after Sanchez's arrival and playing fewer mins thanks to Jose signing him.

The kid was performing and his returns were some of the best around in Europe and that is matter of fact the hard truth. If being involved in a goal every 84 mins is "inconsistent" then you must not understand its meaning.

Except he's leading now?

Sorry mate but this post is incredibly confusing.

You take issue with my comment that he has increased his intensity and runs in behind more now by quoting stats that show . . . . . he runs in behind more now.

You take issue with me questioning his consistency by saying he was the best in the league "at certain points" and highlighting a 5 month period from August to January over 2.5 years ago.

What I mean by saying he is a follower not a leader is that he's not the guy you build your culture around. In a bad culture or a poor environment, he won't thrive. You've pretty much said that yourself in the Jose diatribe above.

But in a strong culture, you can see the improvement in his game. He's not a strong willed character who will perform no matter what. He needs the right environment and conditions to perform and Ole seems to be instilling that.

It's sad that you can't see how much of a leader Martial has become in this team. Just because he's not the loudest it doesn't mean he's not a leader, Rashford and Martial have been leading this team for quite some time now and it's been especially evident in the last 3 league games where Bruno and Pogba have dropped a level and Greenwood's age has shown. In terms of the limited amount we get to see as fans It appears to me that Maguire, Bruno, Pogba Rashford and Martial are the most influential members of the squad for different reasons.

He's influential because he's one of the best players. In a squad that has been transformed by adding some strong leaders, he has been transformed.

I think it's telling the improvement in his game since Bruno arrived. In fact, he's probably been the most improved player.

 

[POF]

Isnt it obvious he disappears because we have nobody to get him the ball? Against crystal palace first 20 minutes he wasnt even involved because mctominay and lindelof couldnt progress the ball quick enough. Then you have bruno who made 5 bad forward passes in a row. That has always been the case with him. he cant do anything if the guys behind dont turn up.

Im also not buying this shite statement about he is not a leader. How you have made this statement makes no sense. Nobody thrives in a poor culture with losing mentality or whatever that means.

Look at Bruno and the influence he has had on the players around him. Same with Zlatan when he joined the club, or Cantona or Keane.

They positively influence behaviour and standards.

 

[KennyBurner]

Look at Bruno and the influence he has had on the players around him. Same with Zlatan when he joined the club, or Cantona or Keane.

They positively influence behaviour and standards.

Bruno is a leader but his influence is overestimated. There was always going to be a difference in results if we replaced lingard/pereira with any competent player. We have been playing with 9 men for most of the season. Against Tottenham we still struggled with bruno in the side. The reason is because we didnt have our best 11 in ALL positions. Pogba came on and equalized the game for us with the penalty he won.

The point im trying to make is that our better players martial, rashford and pogba have all struggled when we shoehorn championship players into the team. This has happened over the years and has caused fans like you to come up with these false narratives. Martial is invisible because lingard cant play in the hole and receive a pass. he must always drop deep and demand the ball while doing nothing with it. Martial is a silent leader. he lead us well in the first half when the whole team couldn't find their feet. he doesnt need to be vocal like ibrahimovich before we notice him. Its the same people that tell us mctominay is a leader when he consistently hides from the ball.

 

[emdee]

The margins between the different levels of player quality is so thin and confidence is a huge factor. Martial looks like a completely different player but he's been this player. The difference between Martial now and seasons past is that he has a secured role at his optimal position and a manager who supports him.

He's had a great statistical season and that's with he and Rashford playing most of the year without much attacking support - I wonder if that will turn out to be a positive in the long run because the two now have great chemistry and have been taking charge and leading the team.

 

[Santoryo]

No. Fernandes is. When he struggles, we struggle. When he does something right, we create chances. For example, against Palace, we were poor most of the first half and suddenly, he switched on and we scored. I may be wrong here but I think even Pogba's gladly following him.

This is nonsense. Martial and Rashford have carried us the past 2 games, not because Bruno decided to switch on against Palace. He's been poor the last 2 games and crediting any of those 2 games to Bruno switching on is absolutely false.

If Fernandes had actually been on for either of those 2 games we'd probably have hammered 1 of Palace or Southampton given our attacking threat.

 

[Foxbatt]

Big difference in Martial now is due to his own self belief and that he has bought into what Ole is trying to do. The credit should go to both of them and the coaching staff and his teammates.
I am really glad that Martial is playing the way he plays now. I am sure Ole trusts him otherwise he won't be starting him at CF in all the matches.

 

[Skeezix]

randomly scrolling through twitter and found this exchange between Liverpool fans:

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hilarious to me because I often see them making fun of our midfield, but now that Martial is bagging it’s “he has Pogba & Bruno. Firmino doesn’t get any service”

It has nothing to do with Denis Ferminghamno being a shit finisher!!
Maybe Souness should be complaining that Mane and Salah are too selfish and not passing the ball to Firmino. Oh Wait! He already did.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I wouldn't trade him for Kane or Haaland.
Sure one has perfect goalscoring record in the past, the other has perfect start and stats as upcoming teenage striker, but Martial is more all round type of striker, and suit our game better.

 

[JPRouve]

It's interesting to see how much Rashford and Martial have to do right in order to be credited for a win while Fernandes can be subpar for the 90% of the game but will be given all credits.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's interesting to see how much Rashford and Martial have to do right in order to be credited for a win while Ferndandes can be subpar for the 90% of the game but will be given all credits.

Like @KennyBurner said, it's mostly the excitement of replacing Pereira/ Lingard/ Mata with a much more competent player.

Remember the excitement over Pogba's cameo vs Watford mid-season? Bruno is experiencing the extended version of that.

 

[Black Adder]

Has a little bit of brazilian Ronaldo in his game with movement and ball glued to feet at high speed and pace! When he turns "it" on there's no defender that can cope with him.

 

[JPRouve]

Like @KennyBurner said, it's mostly the excitement of replacing Pereira/ Lingard/ Mata with a much more competent player.

Remember the excitement over Pogba's cameo vs Watford mid-season? Bruno is experiencing the extended version of that.

I think that it has nothing to do with Fernandes. People will simply refuse to give credit to players, they spent years lambasting, Rashford is one game away from being Rashford while Martial is one shot saved from being sold to Watford.

 

[OldTrevil]

Just think Tony is a Player that needs 100% the believe and trust of his manager. He will have bad games but thats the case for every number nine in world football. But with his abilitys he will get us some silverware with his goals and partnership with Rashy. No doubt about that.

Not really as he still produced when he didn't have trust form Jose. Martial will get goals if given chances, and better yet will create something if the team behind him is struggling as we've seen throughout his career so far. His combinations with Rashy have been on another level this whole season. Lately Mason joining the trio with great attacking play. I trust them to delivery if a trophy is on the line.

Sorry mate but this post is incredibly confusing.

You take issue with my comment that he has increased his intensity and runs in behind more now by quoting stats that show . . . . . he runs in behind more now.

You take issue with me questioning his consistency by saying he was the best in the league "at certain points" and highlighting a 5 month period from August to January over 2.5 years ago.

What I mean by saying he is a follower not a leader is that he's not the guy you build your culture around. In a bad culture or a poor environment, he won't thrive. You've pretty much said that yourself in the Jose diatribe above.

But in a strong culture, you can see the improvement in his game. He's not a strong willed character who will perform no matter what. He needs the right environment and conditions to perform and Ole seems to be instilling that.



He's influential because he's one of the best players. In a squad that has been transformed by adding some strong leaders, he has been transformed.

I think it's telling the improvement in his game since Bruno arrived. In fact, he's probably been the most improved player.

He has been consistently among our best performers all season, and taken it to other levels as more quality has been added to the team. He has proven his ability to deliver even in our worst period the little time he managed to be on the field, it's ridiculous to question his character.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think that it has nothing to do with Fernandes. People will simply refuse to give credit to players, they spent years lambasting, Rashford is one game away from being Rashford while Martial is one shot saved from being sold to Watford.

Maybe. In any case that will also happen to Fernandes anyway once the honeymoon wears off, especially if we don't win anything. But since Bruno came at a point where our team is a lot more complete and mature, it's less likely it will happen to him the same way it did to Rashford, Pogba, Martial, and some others.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's interesting to see how much Rashford and Martial have to do right in order to be credited for a win while Ferndandes can be subpar for the 90% of the game but will be given all credits.

Absolutely.

 

[Adisa]

Like @KennyBurner said, it's mostly the excitement of replacing Pereira/ Lingard/ Mata with a much more competent player.

Remember the excitement over Pogba's cameo vs Watford mid-season? Bruno is experiencing the extended version of that.

Not even the fans. The pundits.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not even the fans. The pundits.

Same with pundits. It's like in both cases they aren't aware that the biggest change is us not playing Championship players; instead they attribute our turnaround purely to the player replacing them.

Greenwood has been just as important as Bruno in giving us more quality, simply because he replaced a low level player. But the case of Lingard et al. has been so glaring that Bruno seems like the Messiah in comparison.

 

[Santoryo]

Yeah I'm also baffled by how pundits have categorically refused to attribute our current level to anything else but Bruno. They are so adamant that Bruno alone has changed our fortune that he's become overrated by both pundits and fans.

I'm glad Bruno has come in and helped us go to that next level but the need to dismiss everyone else contribution in an attempt to elevate Bruno's impact is quite frankly ridiculous. Pundits are so locked into this Bruno alone changing our fortune narrative so much that they're completely blind to his poor games and even hand him MOTM for those. I think he was BT or BBC MOTM for Crystal Palace, shows you how ridiculous this is.

Like someone mentioned Bruno is a case of a player coming at the right time in a team with good players around but having a massive hole in his specific role. Ole's formation and tactic badly needs and rely on a creative 10 that if it happens to have one awful than the while team will suffer badly but put in a decent one with what we'd already gathered around(our attacking players) and the team would be firing. In that sense Bruno arrived at the right time into a tailored role and place for him.

People honestly think if we had average attackers Bruno would have been padding his stats as much as he's doing currently? Heck the past 2 games Bruno was poor yet walked out with 2 or 3 assists because Martial and Rashford absolutely balled those 2 games for him. And because of that a simple square ball to Martial and a simple pass to Rashford have got him assists.

Then you also bring up Pogba and Matic who provides stability in that midfield. Southampton games come to mind. Pogba makes the more difficult pass to Bruno who than squares it for Martial and the latter scored. Yet who walks away with improved stats? Bruno.

These past 2 games have been carried by Martial and Rashford while Bruno was poor, yet what's the media's narrative? Bruno has changed this side. Now imagine if instead of having a Martial or Rashford to bail him out but instead an equivalent to Lingard or Perreira in attack. We lose both games and he get criticized for his poor displays in both Southampton and Palace games.

There is also Greenwood who has come out firing after lock-down. Pogba rescued a point for us against Tottenham. Greenwood owned the Bournemouth game, Matic has provided stability and assurance in midfield, Martial, Rashford have done their part as well as Bruno of course. Yet the narrative is always about Bruno.

 

[MadDogg]

His first start for lvg was Southampton, he showed exactly what he's showing now. 2 goals, including one where he turned VVD both ways, and holding the ball up easily back to goal.
He obviously wasnt as consistent, and because of the team (Rooney must play, Depay failed) he was shifted to the wing later. But he was genuinely good for an 18 year old then, showing all the raw stuff that's come together now in a much better team. Also is interesting that his best spell as a winger also came under LvG, with a worse team than Jose had. Wonder if it's because of how LvG asked him to get isolated and dribble in, while with Jose both wingers drifted in without the ball, there was less structure to the team.

Edit- really did a lot of damage to VVD all game

Thanks for posting that.

I'd almost forgotten how damn good he was right from the start. He's doing the exact same stuff in that game that he has been this season, and even then he was so surprisingly strong on the ball that he's holding off VVD and the other defenders and weaving in and around them.

feck Mourinho with his bullshit. Even more than Pogba, Martial is the player who he screwed around the most. Signing Zlatan in his first season was understandable, but Martial still should have been getting quite a few games up front to keep his development up. And then the following seasons it was blatantly obvious that Martial was being treated unfairly and regularly dropped even when he was our best attacking player.

 

[kaiz]

I don't know what @Keefy18 and @POF were arguing about as I didn't read their posts. I just scrolled down and saw the last sentence "Except he's leading now?". I thought it's interesting and gave my opinion.

I agree that Fernandes' form has dropped off since the Villa game, misplacing some key passes that could've lead to goal scoring chances, leaving Martial tearing his hair out. I also agree that Martial and Rashford are on great form, they were unplayable against Southampton. But the question who is the leader? To my interpretation, as in who has the most influence on the team? I saw that our team performance is a reflection of Fernandes' performance. Yes, Martial and Rashford has carried us these past two games, but collectively, United were poor and to me, that is down to Fernandes' poor form.

I just want to make my point clear and if you don't agree with it, then fair enough.

@Keefy18 Yes, Martial and Rashford played a key part in the first goal and Rashford took it brilliantly. But I think the one who unlocked the defense was Fernandes. When he received the ball, Palace defense is settled, there is nothing dangerous. He played one-two with Martial, then made it seem like he's about to shoot but didn't. Instead, he passed it to Rashford. That's why the Palace defense couldn't intercept that simple pass.