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Marwood

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Injuries wrecked him
Martial wrecked himself. His pace was on its way out before the injuries started. He stopped being able to beat a man from the wing years ago.

From the outside it's often the players you suspect are a bit lazy, probably not the best trainers, that get the most injuries.

I'm not saying always, I'm sure there are plenty of very dedicated professionals that are just unlucky.

But I've gone from having sympathy for all injury prone players to questioning why them. What are they doing or not doing to be so injury prone.
 

Raven

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He's been ruined by injury unfortunately, supremely talented player but unfortunately it looks as if he's done. Hope I'm wrong.
 

Maureen-yo

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Martial wrecked himself. His pace was on its way out before the injuries started. He stopped being able to beat a man from the wing years ago.

From the outside it's often the players you suspect are a bit lazy, probably not the best trainers, that get the most injuries.

I'm not saying always, I'm sure there are plenty of very dedicated professionals that are just unlucky.

But I've gone from having sympathy for all injury prone players to questioning why them. What are they doing or not doing to be so injury prone.
It can just be genetics and/or bad luck you know… Phil Jones for example, by all accounts, was a fantastic trainer and professional but just didn’t get the rub of the green…
 

Raven

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It can just be genetics and/or bad luck you know… Phil Jones for example, by all accounts, was a fantastic trainer and professional but just didn’t get the rub of the green…
Yup, some people are just unlucky. Never been any complaints or comments about his work ethic or lack thereof from any of his coaches so I'm of the belief that Martial been professional and largely done as instructed by his coaches. Although I'm not as critical as others about Ole's tenure, I think the way he made players play through injury is pretty unforgivable.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Martial wrecked himself. His pace was on its way out before the injuries started. He stopped being able to beat a man from the wing years ago.

From the outside it's often the players you suspect are a bit lazy, probably not the best trainers, that get the most injuries.

I'm not saying always, I'm sure there are plenty of very dedicated professionals that are just unlucky.

But I've gone from having sympathy for all injury prone players to questioning why them. What are they doing or not doing to be so injury prone.
So you think LvG, Mourinho and EtH, 3 of the most exacting coaches about fitness and discipline, would all suffer a poor trainer to play for them? Martial is simply not talented enough to warrant that treatment.
 

CloneMC16

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How the feck can we win anything if this our Main striker's injury record just this season.
Shocking. Even when he has played, he hasn't finished 90 minutes yet. I like Martial. We play better when he's on the pitch, but he's not reliable. Desperately need a replacement in the summer.

So you think LvG, Mourinho and EtH, 3 of the most exacting coaches about fitness and discipline, would all suffer a poor trainer to play for them? Martial is simply not talented enough to warrant that treatment.
Didn't Mourinho want him out? I thought he did, but Joel Glazer wouldn't let him leave.
 

Marwood

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It can just be genetics and/or bad luck you know… Phil Jones for example, by all accounts, was a fantastic trainer and professional but just didn’t get the rub of the green…
Yeah I said in the post you replied to exactly that. Some are just unlucky.

But it doesn't surprise me one bit which players over the lqst few years have been the most injury prone.

That includes Jones. When you say by all accounts whose said Jones is a great professional? I think he's looked heavy and too bulky for years. When you add how he throws himself around its no surprise what's happened.

So you think LvG, Mourinho and EtH, 3 of the most exacting coaches about fitness and discipline, would all suffer a poor trainer to play for them? Martial is simply not talented enough to warrant that treatment.
I don't know. Maybe his attitude and approach was better under LvG, it looked like that on the pitch anyway. Mourinho was no fan and lets see what happens under ETH now he has an alternative and going forwards.

Just because a player is at the club doesn't mean everyone is happy with him, its not that black and white.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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I don't know. Maybe his attitude and approach was better under LvG, it looked like that on the pitch anyway. Mourinho was no fan and lets see what happens under ETH now he has an alternative and going forwards.

Just because a player is at the club doesn't mean everyone is happy with him, its not that black and white.
Mourinho literally got himself into a flame war with the fans over playing Martial or Lukaku, he called out Shaw as playing as his marionette. Suffice to say if Martial was a poor trainer under him, he wouldn’t be shy to make it public. EtH dropped Garnacho out of the tour for turning up late to team meeting, he dropped Rashford to the bench for oversleeping, yet apparently he’s tolerating Martial? As I said, both his talent and his contribution over the years are not enough to warrant the treatment. You are just working with your own conjectures when all available public evidence point to the contrary.
 

Hackman2210

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He can’t be injured all the time - he just can’t be arsed. Picks up a decent wage whether he plays or not. More inept managment by the top brass with that contract. Time to get rid please.
 

Oranges038

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He's a bit of a waste of time isn't he?
Constantly waiting on him to be fit because he can do this and that when fit. When he's really done feck all even when he was fit these last few years.

He's an absolute waste of time. That day he just stood there against Sheffield Utd whilst everyone else ran around him said it all to me. I would have transfer listed him the next day. The reality is that he's just not that bothered because he's got his big deal and has it made.

It's high time he was shipped out. Let him go and lay up on an injury table somewhere else.
 

arthurka

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Charity Utd still going strong, useless player and should've been shipped sometime ago.
 

UpWithRivers

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He can’t be injured all the time - he just can’t be arsed. Picks up a decent wage whether he plays or not. More inept managment by the top brass with that contract. Time to get rid please.
You cant just go around accusing players of downing tools and pretending to be sick. He's just injury prone. Thats not his fault
 

Hackman2210

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You cant just go around accusing players of downing tools and pretending to be sick. He's just injury prone. Thats not his fault
Yes I can. Its my opinion. Was Pogba also injury prone then? PP just gave up in the end - maybe Martial has thrown the mental towel in - thats my 2penth anyway.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Yes I can. Its my opinion. Was Pogba also injury prone then? PP just gave up in the end - maybe Martial has thrown the mental towel in - thats my 2penth anyway.
And your opinion is idiotic.

Pogba hasn’t kicked a ball for Juve this season, so he gave up on his new(old) team as well?

They are crocks now. They didn’t give up, just crocked.
 

Marwood

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Mourinho literally got himself into a flame war with the fans over playing Martial or Lukaku, he called out Shaw as playing as his marionette. Suffice to say if Martial was a poor trainer under him, he wouldn’t be shy to make it public. EtH dropped Garnacho out of the tour for turning up late to team meeting, he dropped Rashford to the bench for oversleeping, yet apparently he’s tolerating Martial? As I said, both his talent and his contribution over the years are not enough to warrant the treatment. You are just working with your own conjectures when all available public evidence point to the contrary.
True its a bit of guesswork but you are ignoring Mourinho dropping Martial on a regular basis. He wasn't 100% on Martial. Just because a manager doesn't literally say out loud a player is a poor trainer doesn't mean it isn't true. Mourinho is on record as saying Ali is lazy. Still played him plenty right? It's not black and white in these cases.

There are of course levels to it. I'm not saying Martial is shockingly bad in his prep, I'm not suggesting he's rocking up late for training, living a terrible lifestlye.

But seeing how he plays on a matchday, his mentality towards actual games, I can't imagine his training is all that great. Especially for a player who is injury prone and needs to be doing something more or something different to most.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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But seeing how he plays on a matchday, his mentality towards actual games, I can't imagine his training is all that great. Especially for a player who is injury prone and needs to be doing something more or something different to most.
Unless there’s confirmation from the managers, this sort of observation from fans, even matchgoing fans, is very flawed. Tevez was massively preferred by Utd fans over Berbatov due to his matchday workrate but was also notoriously lazy in training, something that put him at odds with Fergie, beyond the contract issue. Martial copped heat for his style and on field demeanor all the time, but during the height of the Rashford v Martial war here under Mourinho, he equalled or outperformed Rashford in defensive metrics, something the latter got regular praise for then as his strong point. When even the optical perception of two people with identical stats can be so misleading, you can’t make assumptions about BTS stuff based on what you see with any degree of accuracy.
 

Rossa

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Just sell him, give him away - whatever. He's always been this talented player that we are waiting to become good. One good season doesn't change that because even then he was erratic.
 

Marwood

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Unless there’s confirmation from the managers, this sort of observation from fans, even matchgoing fans, is very flawed. Tevez was massively preferred by Utd fans over Berbatov due to his matchday workrate but was also notoriously lazy in training, something that put him at odds with Fergie, beyond the contract issue. Martial copped heat for his style and on field demeanor all the time, but during the height of the Rashford v Martial war here under Mourinho, he equalled or outperformed Rashford in defensive metrics, something the latter got regular praise for then as his strong point. When even the optical perception of two people with identical stats can be so misleading, you can’t make assumptions about BTS stuff based on what you see with any degree of accuracy.
I'm not saying I am entirely accurate, it is just an opinion after all. Like almost everything said here.

But in reality we know different players train to different levels, live different lifestyles, have different mentalities. It would be strange to say they're all identical in their match prep.

You say "optical perception" but we've all watched football for a long time. We know the difference between a player who is putting it in and one who isn't. I think we can trust our own eyes and brains.

Look at our injury prone players over the last decade or so. For many of them its no surprise. They don't look fit, they don't play like guys at peak fitness.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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You say "optical perception" but we've all watched football for a long time. We know the difference between a player who is putting it in and one who isn't. I think we can trust our own eyes and brains.
This isn’t aimed at you in particular, but this is something fans are actually very mediocre at. EtH made a point on multiple occasions to praise Martial for his pressing ability, but reading this forum for years, the common refrain is he is lazy or bad at it. He copped an unholy amount of shit for the 1st half against City in the matchday thread and his player performance thread, but the moment he went off for the outwardly more hardworking, frenetic Antony, they walked all over us until the introduction of Garnacho. A player not busting a gut, running around like a headless chicken all the time is not necessarily lazy, even though the other style is more endearing to the fans, everybody loves a trier and all that.

Which is why I brought up the 17/18 Rashford v Martial comparison, two players with nearly identical offensive and defensive output, but one is praised for his energy while the other is lambasted for his demeanor/effort.
 

TheReligion

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Any actual update on him yet? Or sightings at training?

Really not doing himself any favours this season. Needs to be on the pitch if he wants the manager to trust him to be our 9 moving forward.
 

Jeffthered

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8½ seasons and it's still a discussion for some?

It's beyond a joke now, it's embarrassing. How OGS gave him an improved contract is beyond me. And the club signed it off. Bonkers.
 

Stadjer

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He can’t be injured all the time - he just can’t be arsed. Picks up a decent wage whether he plays or not. More inept managment by the top brass with that contract. Time to get rid please.
Does that also apply to someone like Phil Jones? Or Tuanzebe? They are always injured and picking up a decent wage. They cant be arsed either? Or do you just say Martial cant be arsed because of the made up narrative that he is lazy and doesnt care?

Martial is very injury prone these days but that doesnt have anything to do with ''he cant be arsed''.
 

Havak

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It's hard to see him being here next season if we can't resolve these injury woes, isn't it? Maybe it's more likely we try and keep Weghorst on like a 2-year deal (if the price is right) and buy whichever top striker we can afford to take Martials place.

Hopefully with Rashford, Antony, Garnacho, Sancho, Amad, maybe Pellistri etc on top of a new no.9 and Weghorst we'd have enough.

I don't mind Martial as a player really, but I just can't see it working out for him at United. It's been a long time now and he hasn't been consistent in performances or availability.
 

croadyman

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Any actual update on him yet? Or sightings at training?

Really not doing himself any favours this season. Needs to be on the pitch if he wants the manager to trust him to be our 9 moving forward.
Hopefully gets moved on in the summer
 

ShinjiNinja26

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Time to cut our losses with this guy. Simply isn’t available enough to justify keeping him any longer. Had a great opportunity as well this season to really make the striker position his own but has failed to take it yet again. Take what we can in the summer for him and move on.
 

MegadrivePerson

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Has only played 90 minutes once in the last 18 months!

I think we are stuck with him until the end of next season though as nobody else is going to pay a transfer fee plus £250k a week in wages!
 

Leftback99

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The 2nd half of the season is going to be a real struggle if he's never available. We can't rely on Weghorst alone.
 

Hackman2210

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And your opinion is idiotic.

Pogba hasn’t kicked a ball for Juve this season, so he gave up on his new(old) team as well?

They are crocks now. They didn’t give up, just crocked.
So are you saying Pogba gave his all for UTD 100% effort - if you are then thats idiotic. As good as he is / was - he had no heart for UTD. Prem was too tough for him, back to Juve or France where its easier....
Pogba fans - jesus christ!!
 

Hackman2210

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Does that also apply to someone like Phil Jones? Or Tuanzebe? They are always injured and picking up a decent wage. They cant be arsed either? Or do you just say Martial cant be arsed because of the made up narrative that he is lazy and doesnt care?

Martial is very injury prone these days but that doesnt have anything to do with ''he cant be arsed''.
I disagree - but lets move on. Team is desperate for a striker and he's got his second twisted sock of the season. No need to slag Phil Jones off, whats he ever done to you??
 

lex talionis

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We’ll never know why it all wet wrong for Martial, but his collapse is more than just about injuries. Even when fit, he put in some pretty languid performances. Asking why doesn’t matter any longer.

It seems as though his contract ends in 2024 and if that’s the case of course it would be optimal to sell him but no one will pick up that contract, so might as well use him as a second or third choice CF whenever he’s fit again. But we have to bring in a proper striker, regardless of what would do to him psychologically.
 

Telsim

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I'd sell him in the summer, even if it's for 15-20 to put towards a squad player.
Being silly? I'd give him away for free and throw in a free ride to his destination just to get his wages off the books. The phrase "stealing a living" was made for him.
 

Shai-Hulud

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Martial has left me confused. I thought I had some understanding of him. I thought that, barring constant injuries, he'd thrive on being the undisputed number 9, because previously it had seemed that his confidence couldn't withstand competition. But even when fit and the clear choice as our 9, he puts in quite a few lazy, sub par performances.

It's time to give up.
 
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