Tony V has been a revelation. He actually plays right-back, and wingers role all on his own.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 43
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Status
He's the least of our problems. On the attacking side that was his first assist this season from 19 'chances created'. Even if he swung perfect crosses in every time as some expect, we'd still find a way of missing them.
He's been excellent this season.
Oh I agree, hes been like a brand new signing. In fact, if we had signed him for 16m (or whatever he was bought at the time) at the start, we would all be buzzing at the bargain it would be. Hes been brilliant at RB.
Its a weakness on his part, its not meant to be slagging him off. As I said before, would love him to improve that part, but I dont think it will at this stage of his career.
What?
So youre saying if David Beckham moved back to RB, I shouldnt expect him to continue to cross at the same ability he was because hes moved position? That makes no sense at all.
Tony V is not somebody thats always been a RB, he was always a RW. The reason its relevant is because his crossing when he was a RW wasnt the best either. Why should it change when he gets into the same positions when down the byline? If hes not getting into the positions, fair enough, but thats clearly not the case.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that criticism, even though imo hes been our most consistent solid player this season.
Your post sounds very stupid here.
David Beckham was a world class right winger, why do we need to move him to a right back? So stupid if you even try to imagine of that from the first place.
Did you even read my previous two posts?? I have also mentioned you before that not many full back nowdays can cross like Baines in his best that doesn't mean I don't want my full back can cross like Baines at his best. But the thing is the quality and consistency of Valencia's crossings aren't any different with most right back nowdays. It's not hard to understand mate.
I can ask back your statement here. Do you expect David Beckham or Ronaldo defend like full back? Like Gary Neville? No!! You are hardly see a winger defending like a full back and right back crossing like winger.
go back to the first statement you made and look at what I replied. Your insistence is that his crossing ability right now should be forgiven because hes playing at RB and other full backs around the world cant cross. What does that have to do with Tonys ability? This isnt a comparison thread, this a tony V performance thread.My whole point is he started as a RW and as a RW you expect his crossing to be better, but its not which is pretty much the first or second point I made.
Its not more complex than that, regardless of where hes playing, and he should not be compared to other RBs cos hes only really been a RB for a few years now (but a RW the majority of his career in club football).
Its a very simple statement which youre not understanding for some reason or choosing to ignore.
So good this season. I can't recall a game where he hasn't single-handedly controlled the entire right side of the pitch. He's up for every attack and he is always back to defend, it is remarkable.
We all know his crossing isn't great but it has been better this season, and he's starting to take on his man again, it felt like he had stopped doing that for years. Also, how often does he take on his man and fail to beat him? It really doesn't happen often, its quite unbelievable how despite being incredibly predictable he almost always manages it. Thirty-one years old now and not a single sign of slowing, but he'll be missed a lot and appreciated a lot more when he leaves.
£16 million.
We all know his crossing isn't great but it has been better this season, and he's starting to take on his man again, it felt like he had stopped doing that for years. Also, how often does he take on his man and fail to beat him? It really doesn't happen often, its quite unbelievable how despite being incredibly predictable he almost always manages it. Thirty-one years old now and not a single sign of slowing, but he'll be missed a lot and appreciated a lot more when he leaves.
£16 million.
My whole point is he started as a RW and as a RW you expect his crossing to be better, but its not which is pretty much the first or second point I made.
Its not more complex than that, regardless of where hes playing, and he should not be compared to other RBs cos hes only really been a RB for a few years now (but a RW the majority of his career in club football).
Its a very simple statement which youre not understanding for some reason or choosing to ignore.
I see that you are making an excuse of the thread's name now. If you are complaining and making a false statement about me not talking about his 2016/2017 performance then you need to look at your post first mate. You are mentioning him being a right winger which was couple seasons ago.
I'm talking about Valencia's crossing this season means it's considerd to be talking about his performance in 2016/2017 which is related to the thread's name!!
He's a right back now, Valencia's crossings as a right back aren't worse than most right back but you are keep mentioning him need to do better because he used to be a right winger. It doesn't matter where he used to play, we are talking about 2016/2017 season and he's playing right back right now and his crossings are right back quality. It's not complex mate. Valencia is doing absolutely fantastic job and his crossing aren't any different with most of right back you can find.
That's because he doesn't - every time the defender ends up in a position to block the cross, hence he didn't actually beat him
And re: slowing - he started to lose 1 on 1 runs this season. Not often, quite rare, but he did, while earlier you knew that even if he is a few meters behind he'd still catch up and kick the ball away (or maybe make a foul, but that's not the point)
So youre basically saying his crossing is fine because other full backs for other teams are not great at crossing?
Good stuff. And what was my first statement?
Read that again esp the bolded parts. Might help you out.
And what is one of the attributes of being a successful RW? Yep, ill let you figure that out
The fact is, hes either never been good enough or hes regressed on that ability. You can decide on that, and then hopefully you will understand why I used DB being converted to a Rb as my "example" with regards to crossing.
I dont think it can be simpler than that.
So youre basically saying his crossing is fine because other full backs for other teams are not great at crossing?
And what was my first statement?
Read that again esp the bolded parts. Might help you out.
And what is one of the attributes of being a successful RW? Yep, ill let you figure that out
The fact is, hes either never been good enough or hes regressed on that ability. You can decide on that, and then hopefully you will understand why I used DB being converted to a Rb as my "example" with regards to crossing.
I dont think it can be simpler than that.
Either you don't read my post or you are just being a ******
What more you can ask for a right back to cross? They are right back, their main duty is to defend not make a quality crossing like Beckham or any other winger. You need to understand the difference of being winger and full back!! Even if we buy a new right back we won't find a right back with a better crossing than Valencia because majority right back crosses are like that. I won't say a traditional right back like Neville to have such a consistent crossings and I don't remember Rafael had better crossings than Valencia either.
I'm getting crazy here. You clearly don't read my post at all. I have already mentioned that he's playing a right back and this thread is about 2016/2017. What matters is what position he's playing right now!! Who cares about him "used to be or started" as a right winger. He's a right back right now!! Don't you understand???Just go make your own thread mate if you still want to mention him started as a right winger.
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Either you don't read my post or you are just being a ******
What more you can ask for a right back to cross? They are right back, their main duty is to defend not make a quality crossing like Beckham or any other winger. You need to understand the difference of being winger and full back!! Even if we buy a new right back we won't find a right back with a better crossing than Valencia because majority right back crosses are like that. I won't say a traditional right back like Neville to have such a consistent crossings and I don't remember Rafael had better crossings than Valencia either.
Just go make your own thread mate if you still want to mention him started as a right winger.
I dont think I can make it any simpler than this example:
It would be the equivalent of Carrick moving into CB for the rest of the season, his passing not being good, and then me saying his passing should be better as hes been a CM all the time, and you saying who cares if his passing is bad, because traditional CBs for other teams passing is not any better)
And not to be a dick, but the first bolded part isnt even a sentence. Youre either anger typing as seen by your second bolded statement or youre clearly not understanding my point and the relevance of it, which if its the latter, thats fine.
However your statement comes down to:
"its ok if his crossing isnt good because other RBs around the world cant cross." That is the basis of your argument. Good stuff if you believe that.
Funny thing is, im not even saying its bad, im saying (and said) t could be better and less predictable. If you dont agree, fine
I don't think I'll ever say this enough. He needs to work on his crossing.
You love making an argument by making things up aye? I never said right back around the world can't cross. I said the quality and inconsistent of Valencia's crosses are common in any right back, you are hardly can find a full back with a quality and consistency crosses like Baines in his prime! I don't remember a traditional right back like Neville have such a consistency crossing and not even Rafael had better crossing than Valencia. Tell me what is wrong with this statement.
Do you still want a proof about me never said right back can't cross? What about check the first original of my post that you replied:
Your point of mentioning him used to be or started as a right winger means he needs to have better crossings than what what right back are normally do was completely shocking. He's a right back that what counts!! Who cares about him being a right winger in the past!! There is a reason why he is converted to right back, he would have still be a right winger if he has better crosses.
Do you still not see why him being a RW for the majority of his career is relevant in this?
Which comes back to it, youre basically saying its ok if his crossing isnt better because other RBs arent better.
Gonna assume English isnt your first language or you dont know what paraphrasing means.
What is the reason? Im genuinely asking
No!! How many times do I need to say this he's a right back right now not a right winger. You were complaining about my posts have zero connection with the thread but what I have been talking about is clearly related with Antonio Valencia 2016/2017 performance. You are the one who keep talking about him being a right winger in the past which has nothing to do with Valencia's 2016/2017. Don't you understand the difference between present and past??
For someone who doesn't read people post has no right to said that.
He's the Cavani of full backs.
World class movement and great work rate. Execution lacking big time.
Still wouldn't swap him for anyone.
World class movement and great work rate. Execution lacking big time.
Still wouldn't swap him for anyone.
Im not saying your posts have zero connection to the thread. I said his ability should have no connection to how other full backs perform.
Which goes back to why him being previously a RW is relevant. If you cant see or understand the relevance, thats something different and I cant say anything more on that.
Given this quoted sentence, im going to say my assumption is correct, which make sense why youre taking some things literally.
You didnt answer this.
You are so weird. Everyone in this forum are talking about Pogba's ability to pass and dribble in his performance thread, Valencia's crossing and run in his performance thread, Carrick's passing and calmness in performance thread, Zlatan ability to score goals in his performance thread.
If you still want to complain about me talking about his ability to cross then tell everyone in here not me!! because they are the ones who mentioned Valencia's ability to cross the ball in his performance's thread. I was just responding their posts by saying "Do people expect Valencia crosses like Beckham or what? He's a right back and a lot of right back crosses nowdays are worse than his."
And you are talking about him being a right winger which has nothing to do with his 2016/2017 performance at all. Unbelievable!
Sorry mate, I can't see it. He's a right back not a right winger anymore. I was talking about his 2016/2017 performance not 2009-2014 performance. I have already told you before if you still want to talk about his right winger performance then you have joined the wrong conversation.
Excuse me?? For someone who can't even write properly has no right to say that. I find it amusing that I tried to ignore it by focusing more to our original conversation but you are keep making a new argument.
You have clearly never read my post at all. What a waste of time.
Check this one out then:
Posted #1854
He asked about crossing, I merely gave the crossing stats. 1 of 11 completed, @those others - no I am not wrong. FFTsz categorizes the assist for the goal as "a pass". (So ner, it suits my argument...
)Brunt has the highest completion for what it's worth, but I doubt he plays at fullback all that often. Soares is tied with him. (See below for my explanation.)
Sorry to ask, but when has Valencia been able to get 20 crosses into the box in the league? (I know the answer, it is not this season.) A rather weird remark to just throw out there? A fantasy version of events in which Valencia just happens to possibly put 20 crosses in?
Hull City - 3/14 completed.
Boro - 5/12 completed.
Liverpool 1/11 completed.
Chelsea - 5/10 completed.
To go with 5 lots of 1/2 for the season and a couple of 1/5, 0/5, 0/3.
Boro - 5/12 completed.
Liverpool 1/11 completed.
Chelsea - 5/10 completed.
To go with 5 lots of 1/2 for the season and a couple of 1/5, 0/5, 0/3.
What agenda would that be Pogue? You've just replied and constructed an argumentative retort about a fictitious number of attempted crosses that has been pulled out of somebodies arse? What point does that even highlight? I merely dumped the crossing stats above, I have the rest of them here.
I am not talking about how he stacks up against other players, I don't really care all that much about that as he's our player and I want him to use the ball better is the end goal. I like him in general, I am not a fan of yelling a random players name and then telling people he would be a better player. I rate Valencia as a solid fullback and I think he's a handy player on the defensive end and at the end of the day all I am merely doing is sharing my opinion on how I think he utilizes the ball poorly in the final third in general, while wanting him to improve.
He has a lot of time and space and averages a lot of touches in the final third (around 20) if you watch him in a game he rarely has the timing to be released in behind, he rarely has the ability to approach his marker face up and make a dynamic decision to either round him or play a dangerous ball in (it is not always on so that is fine to turn back and recycle possession) and those stats give a minor indication that quite often he will just bazook a cross into the box when it is a low percentage option. It actually happened a couple of times against Liverpool, but has also created a few goals for us this season.
I know that doesn't tell the whole story and we all watch and have different viewpoints and perspectives but all I am arguing is that I'd love for him to have a bit more of a think about it when he has time on the ball and space look around and survey his options. That is all I am saying.
A brilliant signing by Fergie. He's been absolutely fantastic this season.
Do you even realise what the purpose of a forum is? You made a post, I replied. If you dont like it, you can ignore it.
Nobody is talking about his RW performances, im talking about how hes not a traditional RB as he hasnt been one all his life. (And why is that? Because hes been a RW before? And what is a trait of being a successful winger? Being able to cross successfully.)
Seriously, English must not be your first language if you cant understand the relevance.
Its relevant to why youre having an inability to understand the basic concept and relevance, which you dont agree with. Maybe you can use a few more exclamations and question marks to make your point
Thats not a fact, thats an assumption from you. Youre basically saying United turned him from a RW into RB cos his crosses arent good enough.
Im still waiting for the reason, not why you think it happened to suit your point.
But it is funny, cos it goes back to my first point. That his crosses could/should be better and less predictable.
I am the same on this. It feels like im bashing him, but im not. Hes been one of my fav players this season, but theres nothing wrong in saying he could be doing some things better especially the final ball part. In fact one of the main criticisms have been the ankle smashing or lack of using the left foot. (which is funny, cos hes put in some good left footed crosses).
He asked about crossing, I merely gave the crossing stats. 1 of 11 completed, @those others - no I am not wrong. FFTsz categorizes the assist for the goal as "a pass". (So ner, it suits my argument...
Brunt has the highest completion for what it's worth, but I doubt he plays at fullback all that often. Soares is tied with him. (See below for my explanation.)
Sorry to ask, but when has Valencia been able to get 20 crosses into the box in the league? (I know the answer, it is not this season.) A rather weird remark to just throw out there? A fantasy version of events in which Valencia just happens to possibly put 20 crosses in?
Hull City - 3/14 completed.
Boro - 5/12 completed.
Liverpool 1/11 completed.
Chelsea - 5/10 completed.
To go with 5 lots of 1/2 for the season and a couple of 1/5, 0/5, 0/3.
What agenda would that be Pogue? You've just replied and constructed an argumentative retort about a fictitious number of attempted crosses that has been pulled out of somebodies arse? What point does that even highlight? I merely dumped the crossing stats above, I have the rest of them here.
I am not talking about how he stacks up against other players, I don't really care all that much about that as he's our player and I want him to use the ball better is the end goal. I like him in general, I am not a fan of yelling a random players name and then telling people he would be a better player. I rate Valencia as a solid fullback and I think he's a handy player on the defensive end and at the end of the day all I am merely doing is sharing my opinion on how I think he utilizes the ball poorly in the final third in general, while wanting him to improve.
He has a lot of time and space and averages a lot of touches in the final third (around 20) if you watch him in a game he rarely has the timing to be released in behind, he rarely has the ability to approach his marker face up and make a dynamic decision to either round him or play a dangerous ball in (it is not always on so that is fine to turn back and recycle possession) and those stats give a minor indication that quite often he will just bazook a cross into the box when it is a low percentage option. It actually happened a couple of times against Liverpool, but has also created a few goals for us this season.
I know that doesn't tell the whole story and we all watch and have different viewpoints and perspectives but all I am arguing is that I'd love for him to have a bit more of a think about it when he has time on the ball and space look around and survey his options. That is all I am saying.
Jesus. You're really hung up on the 20 crosses thing. I misread your original post, where you mentioned 20 touches in the final third. 20 crosses, 11 crosses, whatever. I have absolutely no idea whether the stats you're using to slag him off are meaningful or not because you're refusing to put them in context. Which you could only do by comparing these stats with other fullbacks.
But wait, you don't care how he stacks up against other players. Then why bother posting stats at all? Completely meaningless without context. You may as well tell us all he's shit because he has too many vowels in his surname.
He's also completely stopped the ankle bashing.
He's improved so much this season under Jose. But for me, we could be doing a lot better than him at RB. Yes he's more willing to go forward and he's a physical beast. But his crossing is woeful and his offensive game one dimensional and predictable because of his one footedness.
Antonio has been a great servant to this club.
Always in immaculate physical shape unlike some others I could mention.
Top player.
Always in immaculate physical shape unlike some others I could mention.
Top player.
felt he was excellent against Liverpool late on
Triggered a one year clause onto his contract apparently?
Good to trigger extension. He has been good.
Good. I love him.
Think he's got 2 more years in him - 1 as first choice, another as back up.
Think he's got 2 more years in him - 1 as first choice, another as back up.
I love Tony V the guy's a machine, "an infiltration unit, part man - part machine. Underneath it's a hyperalloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled, fully armored, very tough. But outside it's living human tissue. Flesh, skin, hair, blood, grown for the cyborgs
He's been brilliant. I keep waiting for a clanger and keep saying "we could do with a proper right back" But a clanger never comes and nor does a drop in performance.
I feel like a rose tinted "fan boy" saying he's one the best right back in the league. But seriously, in all honesty along with Walker he's been up there.
I feel like a rose tinted "fan boy" saying he's one the best right back in the league. But seriously, in all honesty along with Walker he's been up there.
United have triggered a one year extension on Tony V's contract. That's excellent news. He's been simply brilliant at RB.
He's class, such a reliable player in possession.
A little exaggeration on my part cos that was one of the criticisms, but more with regards to the blocked crosses, eg like this:
Hes ahead of the man, and when we were sitting in the stadium on that side, we knew what the Liverpool defender was going to do (he only had one choice tbh) so was waiting for Valencia to just pull it back, to get past him, but he didnt. (which goes towards, if he was more comfy with his left foot, he can cut back and use it). No doubt hes been better this season at getting involved (I think hes at his best when Mata in ahead of him actually).
Im happy the one year extension has been triggered. He probably also has one of the best first touches in our team.
Hes also the same age as Wayne Rooney
He has been good this season and probably one of your most consistent players.
One year extension only indicates to me that we may indeed be in for Semedo in the Summer.
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