Ballon d'Or 2016

[SirAnderson]

Never seen someone within the football world more bitter regarding the rivalry between Messi and Ronnie as Xavi. He always has something to say about it and always sounds so bitter, like he has to stand up for Messi. I'm mean why must he even come out to defend it, if he knows it or believes it, no need to mention it every now and again.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...do-not-worthy-of-ballon-dor-award_287331.html

Xavi does not believe that trophies should necessarily come into consideration, however, with each player's individual quality across the past 12 months instead a bigger factor in who lands the accolade.

"They counted the major trophies but there are other years in which they didn't use that to award the best player in the world," he told TV3. "Leo Messi is the best despite the trophies that someone else might have won."

 

[charlton66]

Yeah, that was me. And the reason is that George Best at his peak was the best european player ever together with Cruyff. Cristiano Ronaldo never played at the level Best did at his peak. It's a matter of peak vs longevity. I tend to favor peak
Might be, it's a natural thing for the younger generations to hold the best they have seen above the best they never saw, and cristiano peaked with globalization.

I'm just wondering how you reconcile the two bolded statements. How can you say that George Best was the best European player ever when you never actually saw him play? I used to watch him all the time back in the 60s and as much as it pains me to say it because he was the best player I saw at United for over 40 years, but, IMLTHO Cristiano Ronaldo is better. Peak, trough, up, down, left, right - Ronaldo is better.

Personally, all time (post 1964), I have him at number 4 behind Pele, Maradona and Messi (in no particular order).

 

[Treble]

I'm just wondering how you reconcile the two bolded statements. How can you say that George Best was the best European player ever when you never actually saw him play? I used to watch him all the time back in the 60s and as much as it pains me to say it because he was the best player I saw at United for over 40 years, but, IMLTHO Cristiano Ronaldo is better. Peak, trough, up, down, left, right - Ronaldo is better.

Personally, all time (post 1964), I have him at number 4 behind Pele, Maradona and Messi (in no particular order).

Thank you for sharing your memories and thoughts mate.

 

[giorno]

I'm just wondering how you reconcile the two bolded statements. How can you say that George Best was the best European player ever when you never actually saw him play?

There is quite a bit of footage, and i'm not talking about youtube clips.
But fair enough, you're certainly more qualified than me to talk about him. Still, i've seen a few full games of Best in his BoD winning season, and the only other european player i ever saw playing at that level is Cruyff

 

[Raul Madrid]

Based on people who can't argue for themselves but need to use the number of bdo wins in an argument about how to rate players

Most people in general seem to be willing to state their reasons for why they think Ronaldo is better than others without using his Balon D'or wins, even though the Balon D'or wins are a perfectly valid argument for how great a player he is.

If you need to rely on some authority to tell you who the best players are.. well I'd say that's insecure.

There is nothing to suggest that most people need an authority to tell them who the best player is. Most people have their own opinion on the matter, state it and argue why it is the case. With that said, putting stock in what the consensus is amongst the players, coaches and journalists of who the best player over the course of the year is not insecure. Being considered the best by the majority of players, coaches and journalists is generally as close as you will get to the "right" answer of who the best over the year was.

 

[giorno]

Being considered the best by the majority of players, coaches and journalists is generally as close as you will get to the "right" answer of who the best over the year was.

Would that that were the case the amount of politicking, bias and downright incompetence among journos, NT managers and captains is staggering

 

[Raul Madrid]

Would that that were the case the amount of politicking, bias and downright incompetence among journos, NT managers and captains is staggering

It is the case. Despite the "politicking, bias and downright incompetence" that you claim there is, the winner is always one that is considered to be worthy and respectable, apart from maybe Michal Owen. If what you said is true, there would always be a significant amount of complaints from the media and fans regarding the winner, but there hasn't been, and the award would not be viewed as highly as it is.

 

[giorno]

It is the case. Despite the "politicking, bias and downright incompetence" that you claim there is, the winner is always one that is considered to be worthy and respectable, apart from maybe Michal Owen. If what you said is true, there would always be a significant amount of complaints from the media and fans regarding the winner, but there hasn't been, and the award would not be viewed as highly as it is.

There always was actually. And the old -and current- golden ball was awarded by the journos alone, which does make it less of a farce than the FIFA world player as there's less politicking and incompetence, but no less bias, unfortunately. I've heard Paolo Condò saying he voted for Bale as his winner(with cristiano second) in part because he was tired of messi and cristiano winning every year. He gave a perfectly good motivation for his vote, but admitted that he also just wanted someone else to win. And he's one of the few who generally isn't biased or interested in politicking. The As voter HAD to vote for cristiano as his winner, for example.

 

[Raul Madrid]

There always was actually. And the old -and current- golden ball was awarded by the journos alone, which does make it less of a farce than the FIFA world player as there's less politicking and incompetence, but no less bias, unfortunately. I've heard Paolo Condò saying he voted for Bale as his winner(with cristiano second) in part because he was tired of messi and cristiano winning every year. He gave a perfectly good motivation for his vote, but admitted that he also just wanted someone else to win. And he's one of the few who generally isn't biased or interested in politicking. The As voter HAD to vote for cristiano as his winner, for example.

Overall, the bias will even itself out. With the number of voters there is, a respectable and worthy winner (and top 3) will always be chosen as most will just pick who they think has been the best, and that has been the case. That is why the award is valued so highly and there is never significant criticism or questioning of the winner by fans or the media.

 

[giorno]

Overall, the bias will even itself out. With the number of voters there is, a respectable and worthy winner will always be chosen as most will just pick who they think has been the best, and that has been the case. That is why the award is valued so highly and there is never significant criticism or questioning of the winner by fans or the media.

All in all, generally yes, the winner will be someone who's done enough to deserve the award, and they won't feck it up if there's a clear candidate. But they also gave the award to Sammer and Cannavaro...

 

[Raul Madrid]

All in all, generally yes, the winner will be someone who's done enough to deserve the award, and they won't feck it up if there's a clear candidate. But they also gave the award to Sammer and Cannavaro...

Sammer won the German Footballer of the Year award and was the best player at Euro 96. Cannavaro was the best player at the World Cup and had a very good season at Juventus. These players winning it hardly discredit the award or voters.

 

[Stacks]

Everyone remembers Hungary 1954, Holland 1974/1978 and Brazil 1982 more than the teams that actually won those competitions. And if you're going to make a statistical comparison, don't compare a 31-39 year-old Puskas with a 24-31-year-old Ronaldo.

It took Platini 5 games and one tournament to reach 9 goals. It has taken Ronaldo 21 games and four tournaments to get to the same total. Hard to say who's better as they were very different players who started from far different positions, but safe to say they're both right up there in the top handful of greatest Europeans of all time.

People who say this are being romantic more than anything. Ok they got to 2 finals so they must've been agood group but no one over shadows Spain's treble of tournaments. I've never heard of Brazil 82 been mentioned in more superlative form than 1970's which has been regarded as the best world cup squad ever.
Indeed it may be unfair to compare Ronaldo to Puskas at those respective ages which kinda makes this all a very pointless exercise!

 

[Stacks]

Yeah, that was me. And the reason is that George Best at his peak was the best european player ever together with Cruyff. Cristiano Ronaldo never played at the level Best did at his peak. It's a matter of peak vs longevity. I tend to favor peak


No, it doesn't. That someone is Alfredo Di Stefano. Some may consider other ex-madrid greats better than cristiano or not, and that's very much up for debate(myself i also put zidane ahead of him. Same reason as with Best. Not puskas in terms of madrid greats because while still incredible, the version that played for us wasn't better than cristiano). But Di Stefano being the greatest to ever wear the white is not.


For one thing, I rate Messi 3rd. For another, once you get past the top 5-6(maradona, pelé, messi, cruyff, di stefano, garrincha), the difference between the others is veeeery slim, and very much up to personal taste as well.


Might be, it's a natural thing for the younger generations to hold the best they have seen above the best they never saw, and cristiano peaked with globalization. But if you ask a madrid fan from spain, someone who became a madridista because of his family, Di Stefano will remain the best. The benchmark.

Fair point regarding Di Stefano, but why do you regard Zidane greater than Cristiano? What season did he have that was better than any of Cristiano's

 

[Raul Madrid]

Ronaldo contributed far more to Madrid than Zidane as a player did. Ronaldo is undoubtedly a bigger Madrid legend than Zidane.

 

[giorno]

Ronaldo contributed far more to Madrid than Zidane as a player did. Ronaldo is undoubtedly a bigger Madrid legend than Zidane.

Mmm...dunno. Cristiano won 1 CL more, but zidane's 2001-2002 CL performances -especially in the knockout rounds- were far better than any of cristiano's(and don't talk to me about goals. Look beyond the numbers). When it comes to league performances...i'd say cristiano's 2011-12 is about even with zidane's 2002-2003. Cristiano's been with us longer and gave us more, but zidane gave us one of the most iconic moments in our history. Ultimately, It's just my personal taste

 

[Raul Madrid]

Mmm...dunno. Cristiano won 1 CL more, but zidane's 2001-2002 CL performances -especially in the knockout rounds- were far better than any of cristiano's(and don't talk to me about goals. Look beyond the numbers). When it comes to league performances...i'd say cristiano's 2011-12 is about even with zidane's 2002-2003. Cristiano's been with us longer and gave us more, but zidane gave us one of the most iconic moments in our history. Ultimately, It's just my personal taste

Ronaldo has contributed far, far more on the pitch than Zidane and has broken lots of records. Why should I not talk about goals when it comes to Ronaldo, when it is something he an all-time great at? It would be ridiculous of me to leave them out. Ronaldo's 11-12 is also better than any of Zidane's individual seasons at the club. You have even admit Ronaldo has given the club more, and just one moment, no matter how great or important it was, is not enough to put him ahead of Ronaldo. Fair enough if you prefer Zidane over Ronaldo and like him more as a player, that is your right. I like Zidane more too, but he did not contribute anything close to what Ronaldo has. Ronaldo has been considered amongst the top 3 players in the world every year since he has been at the club, apart from the first one where he was injured. That was only the case with Zidane for 3 of his seasons at the club, and one of those were only for his performances for France (2006). Zidane's best at the club isn't as good as Ronaldo's best and Zidane's worst is far, far away from Ronaldo's worst (and that is not hyperbole). Ronaldo's level has not dropped at all like Zidane's did.

 

[giorno]

Ronaldo's 11-12 is also better than any of Zidane's individual seasons at the club.

No it wasn't

You have even admit Ronaldo has given the club more, and just one moment, no matter how great or important it was, is not enough to put him ahead of Ronaldo.

Disagree

Ronaldo has been considered amongst the top 3 players in the world every year since he has been at the club, apart from the first one where he was injured. That was only the case with Zidane for 3 of his seasons at the club, and one of those were only for his performances for France (2006).

Yeah, that's cause the golden ball hadn't been fused with the fifa monstrosity and turned into a worldwide popularity contest. Also, believe it or not, the duality with messi has helped cristiano when it comes to the golden ball. Zidane was the best player of his era, he was the best player in the world from 1998 until 2004, just as messi has been the best player in the world from 2009 until now, and everybody knew it. Golden ball doesn't go to the best player, it goes to the most consistent performer on the team that happened to win either the CL/WC/Euros, with few exceptions, usually motivated by reasons other than simply trying to decide who was the best perfomer in the world individually.

Zidane's best at the club isn't as good as Ronaldo's best and Zidane's worst is far, far away from Ronaldo's worst (and that is not hyperbole).

In terms of individual performance, Zidane's best at the club was better than cristiano's. In terms of performance over a single season, they're about equal. In terms of performance over their whole madrid career, cristiano's far better.

And yes, his level *has* dropped. His 2015-16 season was far below the 6 before. He's been far from spectacular this season either

 

[steffyr2]

Yeah, that was me. And the reason is that George Best at his peak was the best european player ever together with Cruyff. Cristiano Ronaldo never played at the level Best did at his peak. It's a matter of peak vs longevity. I tend to favor peak.

I guess that peak would be 1967 thru 1971 when Best scored 32, 22, 23, 22, and 27? Unlike Ronaldo who scored 23, 42, 26, 33, 53, 60, 55, 51, 61, 51 starting in 2006. Seems like Ronaldo should have had a few great peaks in amongst all that longevity.

Looks like Ronaldo isn't scoring as many goals this year. You will probably like him more now.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You give far too much value to the Ballon d'Or, Messi is quite a bit better than Ronaldo if you actually watch both.

Well it's all matter of opinions of course, but awards/stats/achievement won't lies. It might not tell you the whole picture, but it's most objective one could get. Ronaldo has reach the very top in the game for so many years, to the point where very very few in the history could match. In this regards (matter of objectivity), he should also be considered as GOAT.

But I understand opinions differs, some people might not like his style/approach to the game, some might like it.

But what I am saying here, is that we are not discussing who's our favourite player of all time, we are talking about the greatest, and guess what, Ronaldo qualifies in every aspect.

 

[Theonas]

Ronaldo is such a unique entity when it comes to footballing greats. There are two Ronaldos for me; 2008-2012/13 and 2013-now. His style changes to almost unrecognisable degrees throughout those periods. For me the biggest and most valuable commodity in foootball has always and will always be disorganising a defence and rendering its shape useless. This is more valuable than great defending, finishing lung busting runs or whatever job you have on a football field. Traditionally speaking this has been done through the timeless art of pace and dribbling with the help of close ball technique, first touch, acceleration and so on. This is why the most memorable players of all time mostly could do one of those things to perfection (Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Best, ... ). Some could disorganise a defence through vision and a ridiculous level of passing accuracy and technique (Zidane and Iniesta come to mind here). The thing with Ronaldo is that in the first phase of his career, he most definitely belonged to the former group and was one of the all time best. You could basically give him the ball when your team is in trouble and he will create something. Defence had no answer as he would simply would run at them with pace, technique and control and they could only foul him. From around 2013 onwards however, he either cannot and won't do that anymore. If you stop Real, you stop Ronaldo (there are few exceptions here and there of course) but he certainly no longer is the guy that will get his team out of trouble the way he or those others used to. He plays more like a better version of Gerd Muller or Van Nistelrooy which is of course still one of the best players in the world but most definitely not in the game changing league as the other company he used to belong to. This is why he really has been very difficult to evaluate the past 3 years. Before that, easily on par with the best ever, after that, an all time great finisher but no more.

 

[Raul Madrid]

No it wasn't

It definitely was. 60 goals and 15 assists. It took an all-time, historic record-breaking year from Messi to beat him to the Balon D'or. It was undoubtedly better. What did Zidane offer over the course of an entire season that came close to that? Try not to give the usual "look beyond the goals" response that you like to use.

Yeah, that's cause the golden ball hadn't been fused with the fifa monstrosity and turned into a worldwide popularity contest.

They used to say the same back then too. Plenty of people said that Zidane used to finish as high as he did back then because of his popularity. There is still no evidence to suggest he would have benefitted more from playing today. There is nothing to suggest he could have beaten a player like Messi to an award. He never competed against such a player.

Zidane was the best player of his era, he was the best player in the world from 1998 until 2004, just as messi has been the best player in the world from 2009 until now, and everybody knew it.

He wasn't. He was considered the best alongside Ronaldo. He did not dominate the game at all like Messi has. Messi is on another level. He would not have been able to compete with Messi like Ronaldo has.

Golden ball doesn't go to the best player, it goes to the most consistent performer on the team that happened to win either the CL/WC/Euros with few exceptions,

The award goes to who the majority think has been the best over the year. It went to Ronaldo in 2013, despite him not winning anything. Messi also won it in 2010 and 2012, despite not winning any of them competitions. That proves that what you said is not the case. That is because people believe they were better than everyone else that year. Of course the best player in a CL/WC/Euros winning team has a good chance of winning it. If they were the best player in such a team, they must have had a very strong campaign. It does not guarantee winning it though, like we have seen with Xavi, Iniesta, Sneijder and Ribery.

usually motivated by reasons other than simply trying to decide who was the best perfomer in the world individually.

Such as what?

In terms of individual performance, Zidane's best at the club was better than cristiano's.

Agreed, but Ronaldo was a different player. Zidane may beat him in a short sprint, but Ronaldo wins the marathon between the two. Simply having a higher peak is not enough for a player to be considered better than another by the majority. If it was the case, Zidane would have more individual Balon D'ors/World Player of the Year awards than Ronaldo, but he doesn't, despite Ronaldo being up against Messi who is better than anyone Zidane competed against.

In terms of performance over a single season, they're about equal

No, they are not. You will not find many who agree with that. The sheer number of goals and assists Ronaldo provides over the course of the season exceeds anything Zidane did. Zidane could never have beaten Messi to a Balon D'or relying on just a season/year at club level, and he was criticised for being inconsistent. That is a criticism that has rarely, if ever, being aimed at Cristiano.

In terms of performance over their whole madrid career, cristiano's far better.

Agreed, but if you think this is the case, I do not see how you think Zidane is a bigger legend. One goal should not be enough. Perhaps if it was close between the two, then it would put Zidane ahead, but like you have even admitted, Ronaldo has been far better.

And yes, his level *has* dropped. His 2015-16 season was far below the 6 before. He's been far from spectacular this season either

Agreed, but I am pretty confident his overall campaign will still be better than any of Zidanes.

 

[Jaybomb]

You can't really compare midfielders to attackers. Compare Zidane to the likes of Iniesta, not Messi/Ronaldo.

For me; Messi, Cristiano and Pele are the best attackers of all time.
Cruyff and Zidane the best midfielders.
Beckenbauer and Maldini defenders.

 

[adexkola]

Zidane's years at Madrid (Glasgow year apart) were underwhelming. Didn't Real have a streak of last 16 exits in the CL ala Arsenal? And I think they won the league the season after his headbutt/retirement.

Think his career in Juventus was better.

 

[Cal?]

It's hardly trolling it's just a witty remark, I personally don't take football holistically, and it depends on how you judge success metrics: by team trophies, assists, goals, dribbles, individual performances etc.

He mentioned Ronaldo is already on his way for a 5th I just discredit it with statistics and then I'm met with a witty remark as a counter argument against the original factoid which he made.

We're currently at a place where we have a Pelé and Maradona rivalry in the same era, it's great to witness them every week, just one is clearly better than the other but, but it's good to see two professionals bring fans a lot of joy.

If Zidane pulls off winning the league this year AND the 12th CL title being the first ever club to retain it he deserves coach of the year above all and before any player getting an individual trophy, a lot of football to be played though.

Real Madrid have the most balanced team in world football right now, their midfield I actually don't think can be improved when fully fit and that helps a lot, just like when Barcelona had Xavi and Iniesta for years, teams couldn't compete.

This year with Real it's probably their year to win the league, but I think to win the Ballon d'Or you have to win the CL these days, that's what Journalists tend to favour.

As a "team" Real Madrid have more experience than the current Barcelona side, so you never know.

Barcelona is very top heavy right now and for a side to win the league, you wouldn't pick Andre Gomes and Rakitic over Kroos and Modric.

The real question is who is the next winner that's not Ronaldo or Messi.

Ronaldo is one goal behind Messi in La Liga having played a game less due to the Club World Cup, hardly a ludicrous suggestion that he might win it again, especially given the lead Real already have in La Liga.

 

[Cal?]

I'm sorry mate but I think we have to agree to disagree, ask a Barcelona fan when you come across them and you'll see the consensus will go with me.

Now you add in Villa lool. Look if it was a choice that I make a team from scratch and I can pick either Xavi and Iniesta together or just Messi? I would still pick Messi.

Barcelona without Messi basically dominated the international football scene and won the World Cup and Euro, Argentina in the mean time did sod all.

Very good. This award is about being the best player in the team that wins the most. If Barca and Argentina wouldn't win anything then Messi would have to do something extraordinary to win, which he did when he won it in 2012. Same goes for Ronaldo or any other player. If this was hands down the award for "who's the best player in the world regardless of performances and medals" Messi would win every year and there's no award that's like that.

There you have it, the Messi fans at it again. Messi deserves to win things regardless of performances. So what should the awards be based on?

 

[Cal?]

Was Ronaldo even better than Messi in la Liga or the CL?

Is this a rhetorical question? Ronaldo scored 16 goals in the UCL last season, Messi had 6.

If you'd seen Van Basten play you'd be asking "what makes Ronaldo better"

Its really not even close.

The fifa generation stats thing is a bit stale now. No doubt you guys would say he was better than Barca Ronaldo too(because stats, innit)

It's not even close, Cristiano Ronaldo is miles ahead of both Van Basten and Luiz Ronaldo.

The only players ever on the same level are Maradona, Pele and Messi.

 

[Cal?]

Really? Really?

Maradona/Pele/Messi(obviously)/Cruyff/Beckenbaur/Ronaldo 9 all so much better than Ronnie its not even funny (i could name another 10 EASY Puskas etc)

Are you blind? or just have a personal vendetta against Cristiano?

 

[Stack]

Is this a rhetorical question? Ronaldo scored 16 goals in the UCL last season, Messi had 6.

It's not even close, Cristiano Ronaldo is miles ahead of both Van Basten and Luiz Ronaldo.

The only players ever on the same level are Maradona, Pele and Messi.

oh come on seriously???
Cryuff, Puskas, Gerd Muller, Best, Di Stefano just to name a few are right up there.
Im a huge Ronaldo fan, have been since the day he first played for Utd, the last player to excite me that much was when I saw Best play but honestly if I had to choose between Cryuff or Ronaldo it would be Cryuff. Point is, your comment is way over the top.

 

[Cal?]

He was that player for 2 years 5/6 and 6/7

(Unless you are talking about when he was developing too). Serious question for y'all, when was the last time he scored a goal that you though "wow" at? Like the Messi goal in the CDR final (iirc) etc?

Im gonna leave it at that - but the one thing even you guys cannot dispute is this (Maradona/Messi/Pele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cr7)

That is clearly disputable, but I can't be bothered right now.

 

[Cal?]

oh come on seriously???
Cryuff, Puskas, Gerd Muller, Best, Di Stefano just to name a few are right up there.
Im a huge Ronaldo fan, have been since the day he first played for Utd, the last player to excite me that much was when I saw Best play but honestly if I had to choose between Cryuff or Ronaldo it would be Cryuff. Point is, your comment is way over the top.

If you're going to case a very wide net, all those players belong at the very top echelon of football, but if you're going to narrow it down to a handful of players, clearly those 4 I mentioned have that little bit extra to back up their claim.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Is this a rhetorical question? Ronaldo scored 16 goals in the UCL last season, Messi had 6.

It's not even close, Cristiano Ronaldo is miles ahead of both Van Basten and Luiz Ronaldo.

The only players ever on the same level are Maradona, Pele and Messi.

He played more matches and scored more against crap opposition, no where against City, PSG, Atletico, flat track bully.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He played more matches and scored more against crap opposition, no where against City, PSG, Atletico, flat track bully.

This is a very poor argument though, by your own definition, Messi scored the majority of his career goals against crap opposition too, does that makes him fat track bully too?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He played more matches and scored more against crap opposition, no where against City, PSG, Atletico, flat track bully.

Scored at hat trick away against A Madrid just a few weeks ago.

 

[Sammyjunn]

This is a very poor argument though, by your own definition, Messi scored the majority of his career goals against crap opposition too, does that makes him fat track bully too?

Im talking about that CL season, we all know Ronaldo offers nothing when he doesnt score, he only scored against the minor opposition in that campaign. Wolfsburg and some Danish club etc, a Messi vs City, PSG performances we wont really see from him.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Scored at hat trick away against A Madrid just a few weeks ago.

Wasnt CL last season I think, talking about that in this case but you're right, he did.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Im talking about that CL season, we all know Ronaldo offers nothing when he doesnt score, he only scored against the minor opposition in that campaign. Wolfsburg and some Danish club etc, a Messi vs City, PSG performances we wont really see from him.

Ronaldo did contribute most to the team which won that campaign, why are you being so harsh?

 

[Stacks]

No it wasn't


Disagree


Yeah, that's cause the golden ball hadn't been fused with the fifa monstrosity and turned into a worldwide popularity contest. Also, believe it or not, the duality with messi has helped cristiano when it comes to the golden ball. Zidane was the best player of his era, he was the best player in the world from 1998 until 2004, just as messi has been the best player in the world from 2009 until now, and everybody knew it. Golden ball doesn't go to the best player, it goes to the most consistent performer on the team that happened to win either the CL/WC/Euros, with few exceptions, usually motivated by reasons other than simply trying to decide who was the best perfomer in the world individually.


In terms of individual performance, Zidane's best at the club was better than cristiano's. In terms of performance over a single season, they're about equal. In terms of performance over their whole madrid career, cristiano's far better.

And yes, his level *has* dropped. His 2015-16 season was far below the 6 before. He's been far from spectacular this season either

I have to disagree. Zidane AND Ronaldo were the 2 best of that era . I don't agree that over a season Zidane's performances are equal to Ronaldo's. For many years Cristiano always dragged Real over the line, dragged them through matches when no one else would step up. 40 odd league goals and 15+ champions league goals will do that. I feel Ronaldo would perform for more matches than Zidane. Champions League season 2014 he scored 7 knock out goals out of 17 all tournament. These last few seasons as he has aged, C.Ronaldo goes missing more than he used to but in the earlier years, he was always there. Which individual performance of Zidane's topped C.Ronaldo's, out of interest? I feel the galacticos period weren't as successful as the money suggested (2 league titles 1 champions league) with Rafa Benitez beating Real to titles. If C.Ronaldo played for Madrid instead of Zidane during that period, Real would have won more I am sure of it, especially league titles. The guy bagged 35+ La Liga goals and 17 champions league goals etc with no Zidane level play maker to boot! (No offense to Modric)

 

[Cal?]

He played more matches and scored more against crap opposition, no where against City, PSG, Atletico, flat track bully.

Whilst Messi was great against the same Atletico when Barca lost?

 

[giorno]

I guess that peak would be 1967 thru 1971 when Best scored 32, 22, 23, 22, and 27? Unlike Ronaldo who scored 23, 42, 26, 33, 53, 60, 55, 51, 61, 51 starting in 2006

Yeah, about that, quality of goals > quantity of goals. Scoring 25 goals in 4-5 goals blowout against minnows looks very good when you look at stats. Not so much when somebody actually watches you score 5 against espanyol and then disappear in the champions league semifinal AND final. Cristiano Ronaldo, and to a lesser extent Messi, are the biggest stats-padding players ever.
Also? Goals are the most important aspect of the game, sure. But simply scoring more goals doesn't automatically make one the better player

It definitely was. 60 goals and 15 assists. It took an all-time, historic record-breaking year from Messi to beat him to the Balon D'or. It was undoubtedly better. What did Zidane offer over the course of an entire season that came close to that? Try not to give the usual "look beyond the goals" response that you like to use.

Not better, on par with it. He absolutely dominated nearly every second of nearly every game. Cristiano scored 60 goals, of which like 20 came late in blowouts. Not exactly important goals. That wasn't his best season because of how many goals he scored, it's because of his overall contributions to the team. Goals were just a big part of it, but the way he scored several of goals and the way he was a constant threat to the opponents, even 70 yards away from the goal. That season was the perfect combination of ridiculous goalscoring numbers and devastating play on the ball. That, and 2007-2008, were the two best seasons of his career

There is nothing to suggest he could have beaten a player like Messi to an award. He never competed against such a player.

He did, and he won, in 1998

He wasn't. He was considered the best alongside Ronaldo.

No, after ronnie got injured at inter, there was no debate about him being the best

He did not dominate the game at all like Messi has. Messi is on another level. He would not have been able to compete with Messi like Ronaldo has.

Of course he didn't dominate like Messi. Messi in on another level than Zidane. He's also on another level than cristiano. To say that zidane, a guy who scored a brace in a WC final and was by far the best player in another, would not have been able to compete with messi is just bs. Especially when it comes to the FIFA popularity contest in the age of globalization.

The award goes to who the majority think has been the best over the year. It went to Ronaldo in 2013, despite him not winning anything. Messi also won it in 2010

Yeah, they won those years because of popularity. Cristiano only won it over Messi because of the portugal-sweden playoff in november, otherwise it would have gone to messi. Meanwhile, ribery had an incredible year, being consistently the best player for the world-conquering bayern munich and generally playing at the same level as cristiano(messi was consistently better than both, but missed a good chunck of the year to injury). Ribery won the journos vote overwhelmingly.

Likewise, in 2010, Messi didn't even make the top 3 among the journos(neither did cristiano)

and 2012, despite not winning any of them competitions.

Messi's 2012 was almost comparable to Maradona's '86. We're talking about one of the 3-5 greatest individual years by any player ever. Of course he won.

That proves that what you said is not the case. That is because people believe they were better than everyone else that year.

No. The FIFA votes in this era generally go to the perceived best player in the world overall, not the one who was the best that year. Messi and Cristiano have been the two best players in the world for the last 8 years, but they weren't always the two best in terms of performance.

Of course the best player in a CL/WC/Euros winning team has a good chance of winning it. If they were the best player in such a team, they must have had a very strong campaign. It does not guarantee winning it though, like we have seen with Xavi, Iniesta, Sneijder and Ribery.

If the BoD had remained separate from FIFA, sneijder and ribery would have won

Such as what?

Politics, bias, just not having seen enough football to form an actual opinion and just going with the one of the two best players in the world who was perceived as having the better year...

Agreed, but Ronaldo was a different player. Zidane may beat him in a short sprint, but Ronaldo wins the marathon between the two. Simply having a higher peak is not enough for a player to be considered better than another by the majority.

We disagree on this

If it was the case, Zidane would have more individual Balon D'ors/World Player of the Year awards than Ronaldo, but he doesn't, despite Ronaldo being up against Messi who is better than anyone Zidane competed against.

Zidane won has many FIFA WPOTY as cristiano(who will likely surpass him come january). Cristiano has one more BoD, which he won because his teams happened to win CL and Euros, and despite him not being the best player on either in terms of performance, he's cristiano ronaldo, so the award goes to him

No, they are not. You will not find many who agree with that. The sheer number of goals and assists Ronaldo provides over the course of the season exceeds anything Zidane did.

Zidane dominated games from beginning to end, was a difference maker in nearly every big game his teama played, and massively improved his teammates.

Zidane could never have beaten Messi to a Balon D'or relying on just a season/year at club level, and he was criticised for being inconsistent.

Wrong. Zidane wins the CL with madrid, scoring in the winner in the final, scoring at the camp nou in the semi, and generally being the best player on the pitch by far and pretty every game, he beats messi to the BoD

That is a criticism that has rarely, if ever, being aimed at Cristiano.

Let me level my criticism at cristiano. It makes no difference to us if he scores 1 goal in a 4-0 blowout instead of 3 in a 6-0 blowout. It makes a huge difference if he shows up in a CL semi-final or final. Cristiano only ever played like an all time great in 1 semi-final game in a madrid shirt, 2012 at the bernabeu vs bayern. He was a nonentity on both finals. Zidane lasted little more than two seasons at his best with us, but in the CL, he was always a monster.

Agreed, but I am pretty confident his overall campaign will still be better than any of Zidanes.

Zidane led us to a CL win. Cristiano hasn't done it yet, not at that level and with that level of consistency game-to-game, round-to-round

Ronaldo did contribute most to the team which won that campaign, why are you being so harsh?

He didn't, really. He contributed justcas much as Bale, Kroos, Modric, Pepe, Casemiro, Marcelo, Carvajal, Keylor and Ramos. There was no real standout player for us in the last CL. In 2013-14, Di Maria, Bale, Ramos and Modric contributed as much or more than him(certainly Di Maria and Bale did), for all that he scored 6 goals in 3 games against galatasaray and copenaghen, two meaningless goals against bayern, 1 meaningless goal in the final...

 

[Raul Madrid]

Not better, on par with it. He absolutely dominated nearly every second of nearly every game. Cristiano scored 60 goals, of which like 20 came late in blowouts. Not exactly important goals. That wasn't his best season because of how many goals he scored, it's because of his overall contributions to the team. Goals were just a big part of it, but the way he scored several of goals and the way he was a constant threat to the opponents, even 70 yards away from the goal. That season was the perfect combination of ridiculous goalscoring numbers and devastating play on the ball. That, and 2007-2008, were the two best seasons of his career

You have a funny memory if you think Zidane dominated every game that year. That was a season where people said that Zidane won it because of his popularity and reputation and his consistency was questioned. Henry, Ronaldo, Nedved and Shevchenko were at a similar level that year, and plenty of people thought Henry should have won it. Again, it took an all-time great goal-scoring season from Messi to beat him to the Balon Dor that year. It was definitely better than any of Zidane's Madrid seasons that year, as were most of his seasons at Madrid. Zidane's specialty were tournaments and big games. Over the course of an entire season, Ronaldo leaves him way behind.

He did, and he won, in 1998

Ronaldo was not at the level Messi has reached back then. It is also funny how you have tried to belittle Cristiano's award wins yet are willing to use that win. That was a year where several players were considered to have been better and more consistent than Zidane, and it was said by a lot of people that he won that year mainly because of his contributions in the final, and his team getting far with him missing lots of games for France not being held against him. You use this to champion Zidane but question the awards Ronaldo has won?

No, after ronnie got injured at inter, there was no debate about him being the best

This isn't true. It was because of his injury that Ronaldo was at Zidane's level. After the injury, Ronaldo was considered the best alongside him. If not for the injury, Ronaldo would have been better. Zidane did not have a season as good as Ronaldo's season at Barcelona.

Of course he didn't dominate like Messi. Messi in on another level than Zidane. He's also on another level than cristiano. To say that zidane, a guy who scored a brace in a WC final and was by far the best player in another, would not have been able to compete with messi is just bs. Especially when it comes to the FIFA popularity contest in the age of globalization.

What are you referring to when you say "by far the best player in another"? I don't see how it is BS to say that. There is absolutely no proof that he could have competed with him, as he never competed with such a player before. Ronaldo has, and won three times against Messi when he was playing at a very high level. Beating one of the best 4 players ever is far more impressive as an individual achievement than anything Zidane did at Madrid.

Yeah, they won those years because of popularity. Cristiano only won it over Messi because of the portugal-sweden playoff in november, otherwise it would have gone to messi. Meanwhile, ribery had an incredible year, being consistently the best player for the world-conquering bayern munich and generally playing at the same level as cristiano(messi was consistently better than both, but missed a good chunck of the year to injury). Ribery won the journos vote overwhelmingly.

Ronaldo scored 69 goals that year and had a large number of assists, which was a lot more than anyone else. I do not see how you can say it was just because of the Sweden game. Ronaldo deservedly won it that year. You thinking he won it because of popularity is just your opinion and something you will be unable to prove.

If the BoD had remained separate from FIFA, sneijder and ribery would have won

But it didn't, so it is not relevant. After the manner of some of Zidane's wins, it would be ridiculous to try to use this against Ronaldo.

Politics, bias, just not having seen enough football to form an actual opinion and just going with the one of the two best players in the world who was perceived as having the better year...

Regarding the bias, like I said, it evens itself out. The amount of football that players watch cannot be proven.

No. The FIFA votes in this era generally go to the perceived best player in the world overall, not the one who was the best that year. Messi and Cristiano have been the two best players in the world for the last 8 years, but they weren't always the two best in terms of performance.

That is just your opinion. The majority disagree.

We disagree on this

Ronaldo will be remembered as the better player between the two, I am sure of that. You could set up a poll on plenty of forums asking who is better and Ronaldo will win it.

Zidane won has many FIFA WPOTY as cristiano(who will likely surpass him come january). Cristiano has one more BoD, which he won because his teams happened to win CL and Euros, and despite him not being the best player on either in terms of performance, he's cristiano ronaldo, so the award goes to him

People said the same about Zidane's wins in 1998 and 2003, regarding his team winning the WC in 98 and his popularity in 03. It is hypocritical to use this against Ronaldo, but brush over it when it comes to Zidane.

Zidane dominated games from beginning to end, was a difference maker in nearly every big game his teama played, and massively improved his teammates.

Set up a poll on here and ask who the forum thinks is better. Ronaldo will win, he is the better player.

Wrong. Zidane wins the CL with madrid, scoring in the winner in the final, scoring at the camp nou in the semi, and generally being the best player on the pitch by far and pretty every game, he beats messi to the BoD

Like I said before, he never beat a player like Messi before to such an award, so you cannot say that for certain,. With Ronaldo, you can say for a fact that he did. Three times.

Let me level my criticism at cristiano. It makes no difference to us if he scores 1 goal in a 4-0 blowout instead of 3 in a 6-0 blowout. It makes a huge difference if he shows up in a CL semi-final or final. Cristiano only ever played like an all time great in 1 semi-final game in a madrid shirt, 2012 at the bernabeu vs bayern. He was a nonentity on both finals. Zidane lasted little more than two seasons at his best with us, but in the CL, he was always a monster.

Ronaldo is not about putting in all-time performances like Zidane. To expect that of him suggests a misunderstanding of the type of player that he is. No player has scored more in CL semi-finals than him. Overall, he contributed more in CL semis than Zidane. I agree about the finals though, he was poor in them. Overall Ronaldo has been better in the CL though, hence him winning the award for the best player in the competition 3 times, to Zidane's 1.

Zidane led us to a CL win. Cristiano hasn't done it yet, not at that level and with that level of consistency game-to-game, round-to-round

The last 3 CL wins were team efforts. No one player lead the team to anything.