[Sweet Square]

It's fine when it happens on occasion...not when it's happening week in/week out, and seems to be turning into a regular staple of our season...when we're not getting beaten, that is.

We played some decent stuff at times yesterday, and probably should've won. Problem is though, that's not really good enough at the moment. The Chelsea side we were up against look dreadful right now, and seemed relatively content with a draw in the latter stages of the game to an extent.I

It's up to players like Schweinsteiger to offer an incisive contribution which helps us to score goals and win games. It's not really overly impressive for him to be alright against a dire Chelsea side. Granted though, he's far from the worst of our problems, because whereas I think Schweinsteiger's mostly only been alright, with some good games and poor ones, we've got other players who have been actively terrible throughout the season. Schweinsteiger definitely does need to step up his game, though.

Oh yeah I agree with you that what we've show in the last few weeks has not being good enough, but with that in mind why was anyone expecting anything different yesterday. As already mentioned regardless of form Chelsea can put in a decent performance when it comes to playing big teams, anyone expecting it to click and come together yesterday was always going to be upset.


As for Schweinsteiger he's doing ok and yes maybe he should be doing better but add in all the different factor(First season at United and in England, first time not having a winter break, the form of the team as a whole)and it's at least understandable why he hasn't been Keane 2.0

 

[Devil may care]

Much like Carrick I don't think he has the legs for a 2 man midfield these days, both need 2 CM's in there with them to let them just sit and focus on their passing while others cover the grass.

 

[United22]

He's a good player and a true leader on the pitch, there's no denying that. The problem is that we need a different kind of midfielder to make our midfield a bit more functional. In that sense, we made the same 'mistake' when we signed Di Maria. Angel had the best season of his entire career in Madrid when he had the role of the wing man to the other star players Real had up front. We broke the bank and expected him to become the focal point in our attacking plays which is something he's not comfortable with. Now he's at PSG and he's providing a shitload of assists and through balls for all the quality players who consist PSG's attacking force.

Same thing with Bastian. What we truly need in our midfield is a b2b midfielder with ball carrying and play making abilities, someone like Modric. A player who would link the midfield with offense and become the 'extra man' on both sides of the pitch. The days when Schweinsteiger could do that at top level are behind him. We saw it in the WC that he can still offer some world class performances in a deeper role, more like a holding midfielder. That's why Pep let him go, he would have to bench him a lot because at Bayern the role of the more creative midfielder is reserved for Alcantara and Alonso is the first choice holding player (with Martinez also back from injury).

In 2015 Schweinsteiger is much 'heavier' player on the pitch, less mobile and aggressive, a player who needs more time on the ball than usual and therefore a liability when given instructions to influence the play from more advanced positions. We saw that against Barca last season and we've seen it during his time at OT too with yesterday's game being a fine example.

When he's playing next to Carrick, it's like having two players occupying the same spaces and trying the same things. When he's playing alongside Scheneiderlin, Morgan operates as a defensive midfielder in our half and leaves all the play making to Bastian. Herrera could be utilized there but LvG doesn't trust his passing and positioning in deeper areas (one of the things the manager actually has a point) plus Ander's a pass n' move player more than a ball carrier or a deep lying play maker. The 'Fellaini experiment' is one of the reasons we haven't won a single match all this time and we have lost the defensive stability we had.

Bastian can give us two more quality seasons as a holding player now that Carrick's probably retiring but we need to sort out the rest of the midfield in order to put his abilities and leadership skills to good use.

Looks like our club has fecked up again. We have Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Herrera, Blind (don't forget he is actually a CDM), Fellaini and Schneiderlin for the midfield spots yet we can't actually put out a good midfield combo

 

[Cheesy]

He's a good player and a true leader on the pitch, there's no denying that. The problem is that we need a different kind of midfielder to make our midfield a bit more functional. In that sense, we made the same 'mistake' when we signed Di Maria. Angel had the best season of his entire career in Madrid when he had the role of the wing man to the other star players Real had up front. We broke the bank and expected him to become the focal point in our attacking plays which is something he's not comfortable with. Now he's at PSG and he's providing a shitload of assists and through balls for all the quality players who consist PSG's attacking force.

Same thing with Bastian. What we truly need in our midfield is a b2b midfielder with ball carrying and play making abilities, someone like Modric. A player who would link the midfield with offense and become the 'extra man' on both sides of the pitch. The days when Schweinsteiger could do that at top level are behind him. We saw it in the WC that he can still offer some world class performances in a deeper role, more like a holding midfielder. That's why Pep let him go, he would have to bench him a lot because at Bayern the role of the more creative midfielder is reserved for Alcantara and Alonso is the first choice holding player (with Martinez also back from injury).

In 2015 Schweinsteiger is much 'heavier' player on the pitch, less mobile and aggressive, a player who needs more time on the ball than usual and therefore a liability when given instructions to influence the play from more advanced positions. We saw that against Barca last season and we've seen it during his time at OT too with yesterday's game being a fine example.

When he's playing next to Carrick, it's like having two players occupying the same spaces and trying the same things. When he's playing alongside Scheneiderlin, Morgan operates as a defensive midfielder in our half and leaves all the play making to Bastian. Herrera could be utilized there but LvG doesn't trust his passing and positioning in deeper areas (one of the things the manager actually has a point) plus Ander's a pass n' move player more than a ball carrier or a deep lying play maker. The 'Fellaini experiment' is one of the reasons we haven't won a single match all this time and we have lost the defensive stability we had.

Bastian can give us two more quality seasons as a holding player now that Carrick's probably retiring but we need to sort out the rest of the midfield in order to put his abilities and leadership skills to good use.

Very good post. I think you've just about hit the nail on the head. Schweinsteiger's past his prime, certainly, but still has certain qualities we could make use of. Problem is, LVG (like with most of our team) doesn't know how to fit him into the team properly, and doesn't know how to make use of those particular qualities.

 

[gza the genius]

Keep playing him with Schniederlin and Herrera and let them do the running for him. This won't happen though.

 

[Speak]

Much like Carrick I don't think he has the legs for a 2 man midfield these days, both need 2 CM's in there with them to let them just sit and focus on their passing while others cover the grass.

What passing?
Schweinsteiger's passing isn't special at all.

If you're going to have a guy in there passing, he needs to actually be brilliant at passing and injecting pace into attacks with one/two touches.

 

[Devil may care]

What passing?
Schweinsteiger's passing isn't special at all.

If you're going to have a guy in there passing, he needs to actually be brilliant at passing and injecting pace into attacks with one/two touches.

Schweinsteiger is a good passer of the ball and I think we'd see him implement it more effectively if we had a screen in front of him.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Looks like our club has fecked up again. We have Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Herrera, Blind (don't forget he is actually a CDM), Fellaini and Schneiderlin for the midfield spots yet we can't actually put out a good midfield combo

Very good post. I think you've just about hit the nail on the head. Schweinsteiger's past his prime, certainly, but still has certain qualities we could make use of. Problem is, LVG (like with most of our team) doesn't know how to fit him into the team properly, and doesn't know how to make use of those particular qualities.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that the plan A for this season was to 'copy & paste' the Saints' tactics from their previous season. They had two hard working midfielders in Morgan and Wanyama who could cover acres of space on the pitch, fullbacks who could provide width and three players with distinctive roles up front (Mane, Tadic and Pelle). I think that's the logic behind the change of formation from LvG this season.

The problem is that neither Carrick or Schweinsteiger can partner Schneiderling effectively in our midfield. Not because Wanyama is better on the ball but because he can run with the ball, he's more agile and dynamic and can go forward without thinking of the space he leaves behind every time he's in the final third. Both our holding players like to sit deep and dictate the tempo and that leaves Schneiderlin with more responsibilities in the attacking half than he should have.

As for the attack, Pelle can provide good hold up play and he's a threat in the box, Mane starts from wide positions and takes on defenders while Tadic operates more as an advanced play maker, hence all the assists he had last season. In our team Rooney is invisible in the box and concedes possession all the time, Memphis/Young/Lingard rarely get past their man, Martial is utilized either as a central or as a wide forward because he's the most talented player we have on the ball and in our poor attack he has to do a bit of everything and Mata looks like a second striker who is struggling to become a play maker because he can't operate under pressure and needs more spaces and time on the ball.

 

[711]

Schwein plus a few quid for Danny Drinkwater would be a good deal.
Seriously, Leicester fans I know say he's crucial to them.

 

[Winrar]

Schwein plus a few quid for Danny Drinkwater would be a good deal.
Seriously, Leicester fans I know say he's crucial to them.

sad thing is he used to be our player...

 

[Bwuk]

He should be played ala Pirlo to get the best out of him with two more mobile players in front of him.

Bastian as a #6 with Herrera + Morgan at #8.

 

[criticalanalysis]

True. I call this 'England national team syndrome'

When players don't want to ever pass to anyone who's unmarked, or to receive the ball unless they're unmarked.
So they spend the whole game running AROUND that zone that does the most damage, and they spend the whole game passing in front of the opposition. And even with 60% + possession, the only real avenue is still going round the opposition and crossing, because playing through the middle is impossible without being comfortable in those tight areas.

Herrera attempts it, but is scrappy with his technique. Same for Rooney, who also often needs three touches to get the ball under control, where better players only need one.
I disagree about Mata, though. He's just as useless under pressure as the others. He avoids the centre just as much as anyone, and he gives the ball up pretty much as soon as he's closed down.

Yup, that's why Barkley, Wilshere, Llanna, Kane and Alli are rightfully being called the new breed of talent. They aren't afraid and have the technique/ability to turn on the ball and receive in tight spaces.

Herrera has good technique but half of his scrappiness is because he's taking responsibility and trying to force the issue (even when he's getting closed down/there is limited space/the opposition is set up to counter). And for me the same but to a lesser extent goes to Mata.

Until we have a decent right (and left if we play Martial up top) winger and another striker, we won't see the full 'effectiveness' of Mata's ability. He's shown he can get away from presses and in tight spaces but his execution is iffy due to a combination of factors like personnel and the actual positions he receives the ball.

 

[Libano]

Schwein plus a few quid for Danny Drinkwater would be a good deal.
Seriously, Leicester fans I know say he's crucial to them.

A bit early days for that sort of trade, don't you think? Like every player on the team bar DDG he's performing below par, I think a boost of confidence instilled by a new coach would raise his and everybody's level considerably. Right now I am missing his long range passing game completely - that can't be up to physical decline. I expect a sharp upswing in form once we get closer to Euro 2016, otherwise there would be no way for him to secure his place in the German starting 11.

 

[Wade3]

But our problems in Heynckes' first season were 100% related to Schweinsteiger getting injured? It totally hurt our balance in the team, Kroos had to play deeper, because neither Tymo nor Gustavo could offer enough in the build-up from deep and we again had the massive disconnection between attack and defense that caused us so many problems under van Gaal.

It's not surprising that Schweinsteiger can't play on that level anymore and to me it looks as if he's trying to do it or van Gaal asks him to do it, instead of adjusting his role in a way that suits his physical condition today. I wouldn't read too much in a game against a Chelsea side that's even more flawed than United. I agree that Schweinsteiger gives a lot structure to the team that's clearly missing without him. But that doesn't change the fact that he's still underwhelming, far from performing great.


This I disagree with for these reasons. The midfield set-up is still flawed, because if it depends on an ageing and often underwhelming player who looks clearly past his peak, especially physically, to have at least a bit of structure against an opponent in awful form, then that's a problem and certainly nothing to build on.

Balu spared me the time of writing a post of my own.

 

[ottosec]

Anyone noticed how he's never trying any hard through balls these days? When he first started playing for us he was very positive in his passing, always trying to find players in good positions, now he is mostly content with keeping the ball and safe passing. Looks like the philosophy got to him.

 

[Name Changed]

Regardless of whether or not he is the player he used to be, we are still miles better with him in the team. He is the one true leader we have, and the team seems to have a little bit of purpose when he plays. We have no leadership and no purpose/structure when he doesn't.

 

[Ryan7]

He should be played ala Pirlo to get the best out of him with two more mobile players in front of him.

Bastian as a #6 with Herrera + Morgan at #8.

I'd like to see this.

 

[Blackwidow]

A bit early days for that sort of trade, don't you think? Like every player on the team bar DDG he's performing below par, I think a boost of confidence instilled by a new coach would raise his and everybody's level considerably. Right now I am missing his long range passing game completely - that can't be up to physical decline. I expect a sharp upswing in form once we get closer to Euro 2016, otherwise there would be no way for him to secure his place in the German starting 11.

The coach is Löw... What are you dreaming of?

If you ask me what I am dreaming of... - some injuries would be helpful for the German team. The right injuries at the right time. Best connected with an injury crisis in Stuttgart, Hoffenheim and the whole Baden-Württemberg, Saarland...

 

[DWelbz19]

He is playing, right? Honestly haven't seen him in the game at all apart from when he got fouled.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Maybe the slowest player ever to play in our midfield.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

YEah he's been anonymous. Would do better with carrick second half. Looks like he's playing left wing or something

 

[Sammyjunn]

Stop the bad backheels.

 

[Varun]

Aye

 

[kouroux]

Bayern conned us again.

 

[Godfather]

We missed him when he was out. How anybody cannot see that is beyond me.

 

[Ballache]

We missed him when he was out. How anybody cannot see that is beyond me.

It feels like I was watching a different game, I thought he was good today.

 

[Devil81]

Bayern conned us again.

Not really, Pep actually said they felt his legs had gone. I think Bayern were happy for it to end as it has, nothing worse than seeing a former great player decline at his club.

 

[gofelx]

I only watched the 2nd half but he did well there. Involved in both goals scored today as well.

 

[kouroux]

Not really, Pep actually said they felt his legs had gone. I think Bayern were happy for it to end as it has, nothing worse than seeing a former great player decline at his club.

I was joking.

 

[Wade3]

He had a stretch in the second half where he looked like the Schweinsteiger of old. Then he had some easy passes he simply botched. Overall he was solid.

 

[Stobzilla]

Kept the attacks alive for both goals.

 

[Godfather]

It feels like I was watching a different game, I thought he was good today.

Some are just overly harsh. He does well for us. Him out hurt us more than most see.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Probably the first home game he's had a genuine impact on things that matter. He falls on his arse a lot though.

 

[Zoo]

I thought he played well today.

 

[dichinero]

Basti is a real privilege to have at our club. Any fan that thinks we paid for the Basti of 3 years ago needs to stop playing video games. What we have brought in, is a player that gives us what no player in the club can offer, leadership and intelligence. His legs have gone but I was impressed by impact on those around him. I had a giggle when he was shouting at players and directing the play while the ball was half way across the pitch. As long as he is fit, he should play. You can't buy his experience for even £50m in today's market.

 

[Devil may care]

He was poor in the first but improved a bit in the second, his lack of mobility puts a lot of work on his midfield partner defensively though.

 

[Escobar]

Much better today I thought. Still not back to his best but I also feel that his fitness levels improved

 

[Sylar]

He did decent second half, but kept the move alive for our first goal. Honestly think we should go back to what we were doing early season, swapping him and Carrick more (subbing one for the other to keep them both fresh).

 

[Anduin]

I think he's a large part of our problem, i.e. pedestrian play... yes, he controls the game, but he also slows it down considerably. Most of the time I just can't see what he adds (leadership aside) what Schneiderlin/Herrera as a midfield two couldn't. Still happy to have him in the squad, but it's backed up by numbers that we're too negative with him and Morgan together in a midfield two.

 

[izec]

He really ran a lot today i thought, he was always running into the box, which i really liked. Sure not every touch is perfect and he doesnt win every tackle, but he tries and we need to manage him better, instead of playing him or Carrick until they are tired, then rotating them when it is too late. He was much more positive in the 2nd half with his passing