Commadus
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- Sep 27, 2009
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You know they are not, the vast majority are.Are they all starts?
You know they are not, the vast majority are.Are they all starts?
Goals per minute would be a less misleasing statistic, even that wouldn't tell the whole story of a player who was asked to play very deep for around half of his utd career.You know they are not, the vast majority are.
In the end it boils down to subjective opinions of a players worth. Wasn't it SAF who said he wasn't too bothered about the records of players only what they do on the pitch.Goals per minute would be a less misleasing statistic, even that wouldn't tell the whole story of a player who was asked to play very deep for around half of his utd career.
The might of the Caf disagree!!!The best judge is Ferguson, who isn't playing him.
My vast experience of playing Pro Evo 3 trumps Sir Alex's puny opinions - obviously, we should sign Zidane and sell Beckham.The might of the Caf disagree!!!
Indeed you are correct. I get loads of stick on here for my Berba-bashing ways. But the biggest Berba hater of us all is FergieThe best judge is Ferguson, who isn't playing him.
lolIndeed you are correct. I get loads of stick on here for my Berba-bashing ways. But the biggest Berba hater of us all is Fergie
He's played a part in the last four games, starting two.The best judge is Ferguson, who isn't playing him.
Galatasaray president Unal Aysal has revealed the Istanbul club are considering a January swoop for Manchester United's Dimitar Berbatov.
Berbatov's future at Old Trafford has been the subject of speculation with the Bulgarian struggling to establish himself in Sir Alex Ferguson's plans this term.
The 30-year-old has slipped to fourth choice in Ferguson's pecking order with Wayne Rooney, Javier Hernandez and Danny Welbeck all ahead of the talented front man.
Turkish giants Gala are keen to bolster their attacking options when the transfer window reopens in January and Berbatov is on their list of targets.
"We're not just looking at Berbatov; we're interested in a number of players," Unal told Hurriyet.
"Yes, we're thinking of forwards, but now is far too early.
"We can only get in contact and decide at the end of December, when the time comes. We have four or five players in mind.
"But we can't say that we want to buy any one player because we have not decided yet."
According to reports Galatasary are closing in a deal Manchester United striker Dimitar Berbatov.
The Kanalturk TV channel claims the forward is among the Turkish giant’s "certain" signings during the upcoming transfer window.
According to Turkish online media, Berbatov may be sold to Galatasaray for 8 million euros.
The Turkish giants were among the many European clubs linked with the Bulgarian in the summer of 2010.
Berbatov's contract at United expires next summer and it seems he is almost certainly set to leave Old Trafford sooner rather than later.
The likes of Valencia, PSG, Bayern Munich and Inter Milan are also said to be interested in signing the 30-year old Bulgarian.
He's played a part in the last four games, starting two.
His record is taking a hammering.
For United he's becoming a 1 in 3 man. 138 appearances and 48 goals.
This season its 10 apps 1 goal.
Hernandez is 13 apps 4 goals.
Neither are having great starts to their season.
Are they all starts?
37 of them are substitute appearances. Remove them (and the two goals as a sub) and his record is 46 in 101. Remarkably close to... 1 in 2.You know they are not, the vast majority are.
My God! You're right! Does Fergie know this!? We have a player supposedly better than Sheringham and Cantona and he's not even including him in the Champions League Final!37 of them are substitute appearances. Remove them (and the two goals as a sub) and his record is 46 in 101. Remarkably close to... 1 in 2.
Which, for the record is better than Cantona (82 in 184 starts) and Sheringham (38 in 101), and broadly similar to Yorke (62 in 120). He's also added 25 assists, with roughly the same amount of assists-per-minute as Wayne Rooney.
I'd say its United struggling for form rather than Hernandez. Of late we haven't really been giving our strikers a great platform to perform.Hernandez still struggling to find his best form is one reason, surely?
Hernandez has been pretty rubbish at times this season. He's still very sloppy on the ball and looks a level or two below our other players when it comes to this.I'd say its United struggling for form rather than Hernandez. Of late we haven't really been giving our strikers a great platform to perform.
Im surprised it took him so long. Now I know where Berba £100k a week goes - funding his army of statisticians and bloggers!Mention Stats and Feeky comes in a flash
So in you opinion are the stats telling you he has been better than Cantona and Sherigham and as good as Yorke?
So let me get this straight:Im surprised it took him so long. Now I know where Berba £100k a week goes - funding his army of statisticians and bloggers!
In fact if we got rid of berba it would create mass unemployment and in these hard times we need as many people in work as possible.
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Really? That's very optimistic of you especially given we had Champions League and Carling Cup matches to blood Welbeck in.Fergie is using the early part of the season to blood Welbeck.
Berbatov will get more game time as the season wears on.
That's the Caf way mate.So let me get this straight:
Commadus posts misleading stat.
evra queries it.
Commadus guesses incorrectly.
I clarify the incorrect guess.
And I'm the one ribbed for posting about stats?
Was the stat correct?So let me get this straight:
Commadus posts misleading stat.
evra queries it.
Commadus guesses incorrectly.
I clarify the incorrect guess.
And I'm the one ribbed for posting about stats?
6 goalsReally? That's very optimistic of you especially given we had Champions League and Carling Cup matches to blood Welbeck in.
In anycase have you seen his performances in the latter end of the season? I could be wrong but 1 goal in 3 seasons post-February is a terrible record. (And yes I understand it's largely down to Fergie not picking him, which again says a lot for a first team striker).
Really? I got him down as 7 goals. I made an error and typed in February instead of April. Last season was the first time he scored for us in April in any competition. But yeah doesn't really change the fact that he's been non-existant for us at the latter end of the season so doubt that's Fergie's strategy.6 goals
You stated that Berbatov was "becoming a 1 in 3 man", saying he'd got "138 appearances and 48 goals". evra then queried how many of the 138 appearances were starts, to which you guessed "the vast majority". As it turns out 37 out of 138 were sub appearances. I don't think many would say that 73% is a "vast majority". In fact, it turns out when you take out his sub appearances and goals, he's pretty much a 1-in-2 striker. That's why it was misleading. Add substitute appearances on to any striker's record and it will drastically worsen.Was the stat correct?
How was it misleading?
How was my guess incorrect?
I agree totally. I think a lot of the hype surrounding Welbeck is because he's a local lad who is a product of the youth academy (the first in an attacking position who has seriously threatened the first team since probably Mark Hughes).I don't think Welbeck has been anywhere near as good as some have made out this season, he's still a young boy learning and it often shows, against Sunderland for example he was as poor as I've seen him.
Hernandez has shown much more in his time at the club, I'm sure Welbeck's day will come but Hernandez is ready now, and partnered with Rooney he is superb.
The thing with Hernandez is that his game isn't (currently) about being really effective on the ball or about creating for other players. It's about getting a couple of chances and putting one of them away and in this regard he's been relatively successful this season (equalising as a sub against the scousers, getting the winner in a tight game vs Everton). I think since the Bolton game anyone playing ahead of Rooney has looked relatively poor, mainly due to the totally lack of creativity from both central midfield and our wings.Hernandez has been pretty rubbish at times this season. He's still very sloppy on the ball and looks a level or two below our other players when it comes to this.
So what I posted was correct and not misleading then - if you say it is then if we drill into his record of goals against teams and performances against the top v bottom sides etc - where do you draw the line to say what is misleading? It wasn't a guess. So all you really queried was my use of the term "vast majority".You stated that Berbatov was "becoming a 1 in 3 man", saying he'd got "138 appearances and 48 goals". evra then queried how many of the 138 appearances were starts, to which you guessed "the vast majority". As it turns out 37 out of 138 were sub appearances. I don't think many would say that 73% is a "vast majority". In fact, it turns out when you take out his sub appearances and goals, he's pretty much a 1-in-2 striker. That's why it was misleading. Add substitute appearances on to any striker's record and it will drastically worsen.
Our whole game plan was too centered around Ruud, and needed to change and become more fluid. If Ruud had been happy to hang around and not necessarily be center stage he probably could have. Whereas I should imagine Hernandez is probably fairly happy with his position at the moment...it's always puzzled me that we got rid of Ruud because his game as an out & out striker was limited yet we have Hernandez who plays a similar game on the last defender's shoulder and he is the goods.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hernandez but was gutted that Ruud left and don't see what the Mexican brings that Ruud didn't.
I agree.I think Berbs is worth his place in the team. He might not have played very well recently but his confidence must be shot to pieces. In terms of ability he is up there, he complements Chicharito very well (and would Welbeck too) and with some games he would surely be the player he was last season.
In another thread there is a question of whether SAF can be criticised. This is an interesting case in point of that for me. I couldnt manage a kids sunday league team, so far be it for me to question SAF. But the way he has handled Berbs in the last 2 seasons leaves me utterly confused. All I can say is, maybe he just doesnt fit the style we play or whatever... fine, but SAF still has to carry the can for that because Berbs has always done what it says on his metaphorical tin. He hasnt changed since he arrived at Spurs. I cant understand how SAF pursued a player for so long only to be unable to fit him into the team. It baffles me.
The 5 years in between Ruud leaving and Hernandez joining is very significant and kinda negates that argument, in fairness.it's always puzzled me that we got rid of Ruud because his game as an out & out striker was limited yet we have Hernandez who plays a similar game on the last defender's shoulder and he is the goods.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hernandez but was gutted that Ruud left and don't see what the Mexican brings that Ruud didn't.
He's also come off the bench and done the opposite of what he went on there to do.Bolton last year, got the winner. Also contributing doesn't always have to mean goals, he's put in very useful aerial displays off the the bench and helped us retain the ball.