Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[JPRouve]

I'm really struggling with that one. If I'm not mistaken Corbyn never said that he was anti-Brexit and he never led people to believe that something like that. Throughout is political career he in fact has been vocally anti-EU, the only thing that you can say about him is that he isn't shouting on every roofs that he is pro Brexit. The problem here is with people who are mistakenly thinking that being the opposing party means that you are anti Brexit, that's at best naive and at worst really stupid. The current reality is that Labour and Tory leaders are pro Brexit, they might not have the same type of post Brexit in mind, but they all want it for different reasons.

At least that's my reading of the situation.

 

[Drifter]

Jeremy Corbyn is NOT a man of principal. How much more proof do you need?
He lies about his Brexit stance, does next to nothing about anti-semitism, befriends terrorists and wears a stupid Lenninist hat.

'Ever had that feeling you've been cheated?

Yes but Blair is no longer leader.

 

[Fearless]

I'm really struggling with that one. If I'm not mistaken Corbyn never said that he was anti-Brexit and he never led people to believe that something like that. Throughout is political career he in fact has been vocally anti-EU, the only thing that you can say about him is that he isn't shouting on every roofs that he is pro Brexit. The problem here is with people who are mistakenly thinking that being the opposing party means that you are anti Brexit, that's at best naive and at worst really stupid. The current reality is that Labour and Tory leaders are pro Brexit, they might not have the same type of post Brexit in mind, but they all want it for different reasons.

At least that's my reading of the situation.

Agreed. But if you're a Tory leaver you're a racist, but a Labour leaver you somehow get a free pass. Madness.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm really struggling with that one. If I'm not mistaken Corbyn never said that he was anti-Brexit and he never led people to believe that something like that. Throughout is political career he in fact has been vocally anti-EU, the only thing that you can say about him is that he isn't shouting on every roofs that he is pro Brexit. The problem here is with people who are mistakenly thinking that being the opposing party means that you are anti Brexit, that's at best naive and at worst really stupid. The current reality is that Labour and Tory leaders are pro Brexit, they might not have the same type of post Brexit in mind, but they all want it for different reasons.

At least that's my reading of the situation.

In the interview posted above he says "I campaigned against Brexit". Admittedly, he did a shit job of it but that was - ostensibly - his stance. I think this is what @Oscie is getting at above. It's the dishonesty in the way he handles this that really grates. If he's in favour of Brexit (and there are some rational reasons why it might be a good idea - I just happen to disagree with them) then come out and say it. Spare us the deceitful bollox about how he never wanted it to happen but now he must respect the will of the people.

I know most politicians are disingenuous shit-heads but it's pretty sickening having to watch the leader of the opposition so blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it.

 

[Fearless]

In the interview posted above he says "I campaigned against Brexit". Admittedly, he did a shit job of it but that was - ostensibly - his stance. I think this is what @Oscie is getting at above. It's the dishonesty in the way he handles this that really grates. If he's in favour of Brexit (and there are some rational reasons why it might be a good idea - I just happen to disagree with them) then come out and say it. Spare us the deceitful bollox about how he never wanted it to happen but now he must respect the will of the people.

I know most politicians are disingenuous shit-heads but it's pretty sickening having to watch the leader of the opposition so blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it.

He wants your cake so others can eat it.

 

[Oscie]

If I wanted my cake eaten I wouldn't have deleted the Grindr app.

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Stick a fork in that guy.

 

[Cheesy]

I reckon Corbyn is sort of ideologically opposed to the general idea of the European Union: he views it as something which is more likely to further globalisation and undermine national left-wing stances etc. He's been able to hold that position for most of his career without worrying about the consequences or practicalities of doing so because he's been a powerless backbencher for the most part.

I do suspect he recognises a lot of the dangers of Brexit currently though, albeit he's unwilling to speak out against them for fear of alienating Labour voters who supported Brexit. Or at least he certainly should recognise those dangers. If he doesn't he's genuinely quite idiotic.

 

[GloryHunter07]

He wants your cake so others can eat it.

 

[Adisa]

The party is support is too scared to champion the virtues and benefits of Freedom of Movement. Even though they k ow the path we are on will hurt us.
Feck Corbyn and the rest of them.

 

[JPRouve]

In the interview posted above he says "I campaigned against Brexit". Admittedly, he did a shit job of it but that was - ostensibly - his stance. I think this is what @Oscie is getting at above. It's the dishonesty in the way he handles this that really grates. If he's in favour of Brexit (and there are some rational reasons why it might be a good idea - I just happen to disagree with them) then come out and say it. Spare us the deceitful bollox about how he never wanted it to happen but now he must respect the will of the people.

I know most politicians are disingenuous shit-heads but it's pretty sickening having to watch the leader of the opposition so blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it.

Yeah, that bit is clearly dishonest particularly when he doesn't actually say that he campaigned against Brexit, he said for a "different result", if you put his EU pedigree next to that sentence, surely you realize that the man isn't for EU membership and when you listen to his description of his own Brexit, he is offering a Hard Brexit, no SM and no EUCU.

 

[Adisa]

In the interview posted above he says "I campaigned against Brexit". Admittedly, he did a shit job of it but that was - ostensibly - his stance. I think this is what @Oscie is getting at above. It's the dishonesty in the way he handles this that really grates. If he's in favour of Brexit (and there are some rational reasons why it might be a good idea - I just happen to disagree with them) then come out and say it. Spare us the deceitful bollox about how he never wanted it to happen but now he must respect the will of the people.

I know most politicians are disingenuous shit-heads but it's pretty sickening having to watch the leader of the opposition so blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it.

This. I remember when people were getting shit for criticising his crap during the referendum campaign.
Feck him...the prick.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So its all Camerons fault? Who'd have thunk.

@Paul the Wolf

I have no idea who Danny Dyer is but I'm sure if he says so it must be true.

 

[Oldyella]

This. I remember when people were getting shit for criticising his crap during the referendum campaign.
Feck him...the prick.

Agreed.

Twat.

 

[711]

In the interview posted above he says "I campaigned against Brexit". Admittedly, he did a shit job of it but that was - ostensibly - his stance. I think this is what @Oscie is getting at above. It's the dishonesty in the way he handles this that really grates. If he's in favour of Brexit (and there are some rational reasons why it might be a good idea - I just happen to disagree with them) then come out and say it. Spare us the deceitful bollox about how he never wanted it to happen but now he must respect the will of the people.

I know most politicians are disingenuous shit-heads but it's pretty sickening having to watch the leader of the opposition so blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it.

It does a bit more than grate for me, there's no way I'll vote for Corbyn simply because you can't believe what he says. What does grate is his defenders coming out with this 'political expediency to placate the racist northerners' crap. Even if that were his calculation it would just be piling lies on top of more lies, and in a bollock-less manner to boot.

 

[Jippy]

'Will of/on the patients'

 

[Adisa]

We are in sort of Trump territory where you can't criticise Corby and avoid accousations of not being a labour supporter. We have a leader that has a **** around him I agree with him on most topics but I'm entitled to call him out over this. And so happens this topic is big fecking issue.
I'm being told it's too politically difficult to even suggest maybe we should discuss FoM. You'd think we voted to leave by a landslide.
Feck off!

 

[devilish]

I wonder who had contributed to society more between a doctor who save lives on a daily basis and the high class snob who got his arse kicked by Ali G.

 

[Smores]

We are in sort of Trump territory where you can't criticise Corby and avoid accousations of not being a labour supporter. We have a leader that has a **** around him I agree with him on most topics but I'm entitled to call him out over this. And so happens this topic is big fecking issue.
I'm being told it's too politically difficult to even suggest maybe we should discuss FoM. You'd think we voted to leave by a landslide.
Feck off!

And in the same manner you lot accuse anyone of having the opposite opinion as being a **** following while frothing at the mouth in anger, funny how that works.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

'Will of/on the patients'

Did anyone point out to him that politicians should focus on lying rather than meddling in health issues.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I could have sworn that I heard Theresa May say on more than one occasion that the country is more united than ever.

The Remainers squabbling with Brexiters.
Tories squabbling with Tories.
Labour squabbling with Labour.
And all squabbling with each other.

Brexit that giveth happiness and joy to one and all.

 

[Pexbo]

We are in sort of Trump territory where you can't criticise Corby and avoid accousations of not being a labour supporter. We have a leader that has a **** around him I agree with him on most topics but I'm entitled to call him out over this. And so happens this topic is big fecking issue.
I'm being told it's too politically difficult to even suggest maybe we should discuss FoM. You'd think we voted to leave by a landslide.
Feck off!

His problem is this:

The majority of the subset of Conservatives who are also staunch Remainers would never consider voting Labour even if it meant scuppering Brexit.

On the other hand, the subset of Labour voters who would either vote for a Tory government or abstain for 5 years just to ensure Brexit happens is considerably larger than the subset Tory Remainers who would vote for labour.

So sadly, it would be political suicide. The result would be a large Tory Majority and dickheads like Boris and Rees Mogg would be free to push through whatever they liked.


At least by “supporting the vote” it gives Corbyn a chance to sneak into power if it all goes tits up and even if Brexit is damaging, at least we would have a government who will be interested in protecting national services and the basic rights and interests of the majority of the British public.

 

[sun_tzu]

At least by “supporting the vote” it gives Corbyn a chance to sneak into power

Im not sure I see that myself - I think his base and supporters will support him prety much whatever he does but he wont win over any new support.

The conservatives should be on course to be crushed in the next election given the shablmes they have made but I fully expect that May will be gone by summer 2019 after a clusterfec of a brexit deal (and whoever was in charge i think they would have made a rubbish deal as its almost impossible to negotiate such a deal in those timescales but that said she has on top of that handled her party and the public message badly as well)... that will give e new leader around 2 years to bang on about the economy and how vital stability is - and how they are doing such a jolly good job here is some nice electable tax cuts and boom another election to the blues

 

[EyeInTheSky]

The twat at the end killed me.

You were an extra in the plot twist of one of his shite movies??

 

[Sweet Square]

His problem is this:

The majority of the subset of Conservatives who are also staunch Remainers would never consider voting Labour even if it meant scuppering Brexit.

On the other hand, the subset of Labour voters who would either vote for a Tory government or abstain for 5 years just to ensure Brexit happens is considerably larger than the subset Tory Remainers who would vote for labour.

So sadly, it would be political suicide. The result would be a large Tory Majority and dickheads like Boris and Rees Mogg would be free to push through whatever they liked.


At least by “supporting the vote” it gives Corbyn a chance to sneak into power if it all goes tits up and even if Brexit is damaging, at least we would have a government who will be interested in protecting national services and the basic rights and interests of the majority of the British public.

Pretty much this. What Corbyn and Labour are doing is basic politics, not sure how anyone can be that annoyed by it.

 

[711]

His problem is this:

The majority of the subset of Conservatives who are also staunch Remainers would never consider voting Labour even if it meant scuppering Brexit.

On the other hand, the subset of Labour voters who would either vote for a Tory government or abstain for 5 years just to ensure Brexit happens is considerably larger than the subset Tory Remainers who would vote for labour.

So sadly, it would be political suicide. The result would be a large Tory Majority and dickheads like Boris and Rees Mogg would be free to push through whatever they liked.


At least by “supporting the vote” it gives Corbyn a chance to sneak into power if it all goes tits up and even if Brexit is damaging, at least we would have a government who will be interested in protecting national services and the basic rights and interests of the majority of the British public.

With the added bonus that he gets Brexit as well, which is what he really wants in the first place, the lying twat. Basic politics my arse.

 

[horsechoker]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44655080

Brexit: 'Last call' for deal, Donald Tusk warns UK

Donald Tusk has issued a "last call" to the UK to "lay the cards on the table" if a Brexit deal is to be done in time.

The European Council president said the "most difficult" issues were unresolved and "quick progress" was needed if agreement was to be reached by October.

Talks continue over the terms of the UK's withdrawal from the EU in March next year. What happens to the Irish border remains a sticking point.

The UK says both sides want to see a "faster pace" in talks.

But Prime Minister Theresa May has been unable to say much new at this summit - the last one before October - because she has yet to get her cabinet to agree on a blueprint for the UK's future relationship with the EU.

 

[Fearless]

Pretty much this. What Corbyn and Labour are doing is basic politics, not sure how anyone can be that annoyed by it.

Of course you're not sure. How can anybody in their left mind get annoyed about Jeremy Communist?

 

[Fully Fledged]

Do you really believe that?

Yes.

 

[Cheesy]

We are in sort of Trump territory where you can't criticise Corby and avoid accousations of not being a labour supporter. We have a leader that has a **** around him I agree with him on most topics but I'm entitled to call him out over this. And so happens this topic is big fecking issue.
I'm being told it's too politically difficult to even suggest maybe we should discuss FoM. You'd think we voted to leave by a landslide.
Feck off!

Much as I'm becoming increasingly annoyed by him, I still find the '****' accusations a bit silly. He's got plenty of fervent supporters but then that's usually the case with any major party leader. Have seen plenty who aren't that keen on him, but like the general ideals he's promoting all the same.

 

[Cheesy]

Pretty much this. What Corbyn and Labour are doing is basic politics, not sure how anyone can be that annoyed by it.

I mean...I sort of agree with this, in that I can see why it's the approach Corbyn is taking...but then if we're arguing this, could I not hypothetically argue that Miliband was just playing politics in not being particularly hard against austerity because there was a generalised support for it? Or that Labour leaders who've employed harsh rhetoric against immigration, in order to placate anti-immigrant supporters, were just playing politics? The entire point of Corbyn's election was that he'd be an honest politician who'd support his own left-wing ideals irrespective of how those ideals were being perceived by the wider public. If polling consistently suggested the public supported right-wing economics, Labour leftists would (rightfully) be up in arms if Corbyn thus adjusted his platform and moved to the centre.

I'd be less annoyed or critical of this if it was consistently reaping successes for Corbyn and if he was pulling further and further away in polling. But he isn't. Against a really, really bad Tory government. And while he was able to boost his standing during last year's election, because he employed a genuinely good campaign that energised voters, if there's another one soon he's not going to come across well if he just pretends Brexit isn't a thing.

 

[Adisa]

His problem is this:

The majority of the subset of Conservatives who are also staunch Remainers would never consider voting Labour even if it meant scuppering Brexit.

On the other hand, the subset of Labour voters who would either vote for a Tory government or abstain for 5 years just to ensure Brexit happens is considerably larger than the subset Tory Remainers who would vote for labour.

So sadly, it would be political suicide. The result would be a large Tory Majority and dickheads like Boris and Rees Mogg would be free to push through whatever they liked.


At least by “supporting the vote” it gives Corbyn a chance to sneak into power if it all goes tits up and even if Brexit is damaging, at least we would have a government who will be interested in protecting national services and the basic rights and interests of the majority of the British public.

I'm not sure I agree. First of all, I think Corbyn is actively wants hard brexit regardless of any political calculation. If he is indeed calculating anything, I think he's bet that his core voters would vote for labour regardless of his position of brexit.
Where is think he's mistaken is, if brexit ends up being a shambles, part of the shitstain would fall on him whether he likes it or not. And what's worse, I think it would stop a lot of would be labour voters (young voters) who are overwhelmingly against Brexit from going to the polls.

 

[Adisa]

I mean...I sort of agree with this, in that I can see why it's the approach Corbyn is taking...but then if we're arguing this, could I not hypothetically argue that Miliband was just playing politics in not being particularly hard against austerity because there was a generalised support for it? Or that Labour leaders who've employed harsh rhetoric against immigration, in order to placate anti-immigrant supporters, were just playing politics? The entire point of Corbyn's election was that he'd be an honest politician who'd support his own left-wing ideals irrespective of how those ideals were being perceived by the wider public. If polling consistently suggested the public supported right-wing economics, Labour leftists would (rightfully) be up in arms if Corbyn thus adjusted his platform and moved to the centre.

I'd be less annoyed or critical of this if it was consistently reaping successes for Corbyn and if he was pulling further and further away in polling. But he isn't. Against a really, really bad Tory government. And while he was able to boost his standing during last year's election, because he employed a genuinely good campaign that energised voters, if there's another one soon he's not going to come across well if he just pretends Brexit isn't a thing.

Or that Blair was playing centrist politics cause that's where the votes were.
You can't have it both ways.

 

[Adisa]

Much as I'm becoming increasingly annoyed by him, I still find the '****' accusations a bit silly. He's got plenty of fervent supporters but then that's usually the case with any major party leader. Have seen plenty who aren't that keen on him, but like the general ideals he's promoting all the same.

I'd fall into the later category. But there's an effort by some to paint the people not happy with his position on brexit as Blairite centrists. I don't think that's ubdeniable.
Paul Mason being one and I like Paul Mason or used to like him.

 

[Cheesy]

I'd fall into the later category. But there's an effort by some to paint the people not happy with his position on brexit as Blairite centrists. I don't think that's ubdeniable.
Paul Mason being one and I like Paul Mason or used to like him.

For what it's worth, I do think the Corbynites are correct in that there are groups of Labour supporters who - in their opposition to Brexit - don't seem to realise that the British political landscape has changed significantly, and that Brexit isn't necessarily a weird anomaly but instead a consequence of that and a reaction to inequality and neoliberal politics etc. Those people will no doubt feel incredibly aggrieved if their views are essentially ignored and swept aside as racist, undignified etc.

But at the same time if you're going to aim for an open, liberal society then you ultimately have to fight for that, and pacifying such voices on Brexit continually strikes me as fairly disingenuous.

 

[Sweet Square]

I mean...I sort of agree with this, in that I can see why it's the approach Corbyn is taking...but then if we're arguing this, could I not hypothetically argue that Miliband was just playing politics in not being particularly hard against austerity because there was a generalised support for it? Or that Labour leaders who've employed harsh rhetoric against immigration, in order to placate anti-immigrant supporters, were just playing politics?

Yeah that could've of been the case but a lot of people didn't like that approach so they joined in big numbers to change the party. If people aren't happy with Labour view on Brexit well then they should join the party and try to change it. What we have at the moment is a small group of conservatives and liberals voters complaining that a socialist labour leader isn't listening to their demands. I posted a newstatemans article a few pages back which put it well - It's far easier for some to image all that's needed to stay in the EU is to change one man mind rather then the reality being that it will take years possibly decades of fighting.

The entire point of Corbyn's election was that he'd be an honest politician who'd support his own left-wing ideals irrespective of how those ideals were being perceived by the wider public. If polling consistently suggested the public supported right-wing economics, Labour leftists would (rightfully) be up in arms if Corbyn thus adjusted his platform and moved to the centre.

The whole of point(In the beginning anyway)was to elect a far left leader with the hope of moving politics to the left(The honest politics stuff was always just nice P.R).

I'd be less annoyed or critical of this if it was consistently reaping successes for Corbyn and if he was pulling further and further away in polling. But he isn't. Against a really, really bad Tory government. And while he was able to boost his standing during last year's election, because he employed a genuinely good campaign that energised voters, if there's another one soon he's not going to come across well if he just pretends Brexit isn't a thing.

Yeah I would agree with you here but then at the same time I really couldn't give a shit about polling any more.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah that could've of been the case but a lot of people didn't like that approach so they joined in big numbers to change the party. If people aren't happy with Labour view on Brexit well then they should join the party and try to change it. What we have at the moment is a small group of conservatives and liberals voters complaining that a socialist labour leader isn't listening to their demands. I posted a newstatemans article a few pages back which put it well - It's far easier for some to image all that's needed to stay in the EU is to change one man mind rather then the reality being that it will take years possibly decades of fighting.

Seriously? That’s how you’d categorise Labour voters who think Corbyn should do more to oppose Brexit?

 

[Grinner]

What exactly is a Danny Dyer and why does he talk like that?

 

[Adisa]

For what it's worth, I do think the Corbynites are correct in that there are groups of Labour supporters who - in their opposition to Brexit - don't seem to realise that the British political landscape has changed significantly, and that Brexit isn't necessarily a weird anomaly but instead a consequence of that and a reaction to inequality and neoliberal politics etc. Those people will no doubt feel incredibly aggrieved if their views are essentially ignored and swept aside as racist, undignified etc.

But at the same time if you're going to aim for an open, liberal society then you ultimately have to fight for that, and pacifying such voices on Brexit continually strikes me as fairly disingenuous.

I am in agreement. Above all I'm a realist. There are some of our fellow people on the left that have the fantasy of a leftist utopia post brexit and I fear Corbyn is part of that crew.
The reality will be very different.
I agree that the political landscape has changed. However I do not believe for a second that it's changed so much so that we can't even have a debate about having a liberal society.
I think people who want to maintain some of that have a right to be angry their party leaders seem to have succembed to fear.

 

[Adisa]

What exactly is a Danny Dyer and why does he talk like that?

He's a cockney actor. That's how they talk in that part of London.