[roonster09]

Basically, respect is for everyone, but campaigning for respect is only for players who don’t get it, of which Bruno obviously isn’t one of them.

Which means we have to play down the records of the player who is getting bit of love from ManUtd fans (for a change and first time in years)

Oh btw yeah I'm saying it directly. You are everything that you accuse others of. You have your agenda, you love few players which means you give all possible excuses, you don't like some players which means you play down their records. Only change is, others abuse the players, you don't.

 

[Rozay]

Which means we have to play down the records of the player who is getting bit of love from ManUtd fans (for a change and first time in years)

I don’t play down records, I barely post in the Bruno thread at all. And maybe the fact that it’s the ‘first time in years’ a United player is shown some love from the fans is a large part of my contention. It shouldn’t be the case.

And while I appreciate that some players will get criticised for performance, I don’t think any should be slagged the way some of them are. As a result, you will typically find me in those threads speaking up for those players where few other posters seem to be doing so, than camped in the Bruno love in where the same things others are being criticised for are being mitigated or ignored. That is always something I’ve called out on here, and will always be some thing I call out. I don’t get how fans can blatantly be so furious with a player who passes poorly, and then not mind the player 20 yards away passing poorly, for example. I’m always going to feel more accepting of posters willing to call out a player for a bad game if I go into the thread of another player after a bad game and see the same thing said. Instead, I go into Bruno’s thread and all I see is ‘poor lad, he’s probably tired’. The player himself and his manager literally came out and dismissed fatigue, yet posters are insistent upon it due to a refusal to call a bad performance a bad performance. If that was just because we’re ‘all United fans’ then fine, but you can see in other threads that it isn’t the case.

Above all, I just try to say w I see best I can. If I see what I think is a bad performance, I’ll call it such, if the same player puts in a poor one the following game, I’ll call it a poor one.

And, with the exception of strikers, I don’t really care too much for a player’s ‘records’. I appreciate the importance of them, but I will never get excited by a player’s ‘numbers’ - but that’s just how I grew up interpreting football. As a result, I don’t think, and never have thought l, that Bruno is as good as his numbers suggest personally, just because when I watch him, he doesn’t really wow me. I’m not from the school that finds creative midfielders running and pressing as ‘wow’ worthy. I think Jack Grealish is a better #10 than Bruno, for instance, just because I watch them and JG looks a better footballer to me. But I will always respect Bruno’s records for sure, numbers are to be respected if nothing else. Just like Gerd Muller’s are, but nobody thinks he’s the best ever. I also struggle to be that impressed with Aubameyang. He’s always been a shit player with great stats to me.

 

[Stacks]

Firstly, I don’t ‘cry’ about anything. And secondly, I have always spoken of Bruno with respect. I’ve never slagged him in the manner that other players are slagged. I don’t need to campaign for Bruno to be shown respect, because that quite clearly isn’t lacking for him around here.

Quite simply, I call out unobjective assessment of a player. If me questioning the constant dismissal of every poor Bruno performance as ‘fatigue’ - which has been happening on here since last season is considered disrespect to you, then that’s your problem. As a player, I’ve always shown Bruno respect. He’s not my favourite player stylistically, but I respect his numbers, which I’ve said repeatedly. This forum plays favourites quite obviously, which in itself isn’t the worst thing, but I think it is used to alter facts. Lukaku, for instance, could never be accused of being amongst my favourite players. I don’t like him as a player at all really. But I recognise what he does, and I also feel that in general, people shouldn’t have been calling a United player ‘thick, lazy, cnut’ etc so freely. This is not language I have used towards Bruno ever. Or Brandon Williams or Scott McTominay whose qualities I have questioned.

Ultimately, there’s no point in having player discussion, or player comparison which is often done between Bruno and Pogba if posters decide that he can either only be called brilliant or tired. It’s ridiculous.

And if you were trying to imply something else about my views on certain players then please say so so that I can address that directly.

Basically, respect is for everyone, but campaigning for respect is only for players who don’t get it, of which Bruno obviously isn’t one of them.

I am all for the Lukaku disrespect. He was hella disrespectful during his time at United and was officially one of the laziest players in the league according to running stats but he did a lot of pointing for others to run places like a big time Charlie. I don't even think you need to speak about players respectfully on a forum unless they are dead. Its not like we are saying to their face or on Twitter. They will never see nor care and continue making bank despite what is said on the Caf. Just don't be abusive or distasteful.

 

[amsoUG]

Talked about this last season in July, - still hold the same opinion.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-2020-performances.453043/page-86#post-25804233

Full post here (Posted July 2020):

I have watched Bruno from afar, and recently he is just like another Lampard, Rodriguez - stat merchants - the kind who frustrate strikers!

Having played 10/11 and worn #10 at the junior level, and studied my favourite 10s in Rivaldo, Zidane, Dinho, Ozil.... though not enough to critic but enough to know that players who play 10 like Lampard and Bruno make the strikers' jobs a drag. 10s like Lampard and Bruno are the greedy ones: always competing with strikers for not only goal-scoring opportunities like penalties but also goal scoring positions. A 10/CAM who would rather be ahead of their striker to score than drop off to link up play is a greedy one.

I have seen him intentionally playing the striker wide or short for an expected in-behind or an in-behind for an expected short as he runs forward to expect the ball back for a goal-scoring opportunity. A normal football viewer will miss some of this stuff but when you play the front line you know. Check Martial's body language recently with the recent passes from Bruno or shots.

This greedy breed of 10s play with their heads down, having more shots than even the strikers, looking for penalties and free kicks instead of passes, the showmanship to press - because they want to hog all the limelight. Give me a lazy CAM in Ozil / Zizou / Zico who don't press or trackback. The heaviest presses that Bruno makes are when he loses the ball - just a show! Authentic 10s don't feel overly guilty about losing the ball, worst of all, they can't be running around headless! Zidane in his last world cup was allowed to not press/trackback - his role was to receive the ball and spread it. Bruno has Matic and Pogba in the centre and he goes hiding in the wing and the front line. Recently it is Martial & Rashford coming back to play as #10 to bring the ball forward while he is hiding in the wing or playing on the shoulder.

The #10 role had started to be phased out of modern football because hardly any players were technical enough and selfless enough to play it well. A good 10/CAM in their element would have an open goal and still be willing to square the ball for another player to score. OGS should play 4-3-3 and keep that #10 role as obsolete as modern managers have rendered it.

Lastly, a 10 does not need much pace to perform, they need the ball and a lot of it - a 10 can walk on the pitch the whole game and still perform. Players in EPL use speed and running around to show fans that they care and therefore masking ability on the ball.

 

[macheda14]

Talked about this last season in July, - still hold the same opinion.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-2020-performances.453043/page-86#post-25804233

Full post here (Posted July 2020):

I have watched Bruno from afar, and recently he is just like another Lampard, Rodriguez - stat merchants - the kind who frustrate strikers!

Having played 10/11 and worn #10 at the junior level, and studied my favourite 10s in Rivaldo, Zidane, Dinho, Ozil.... though not enough to critic but enough to know that players who play 10 like Lampard and Bruno make the strikers' jobs a drag. 10s like Lampard and Bruno are the greedy ones: always competing with strikers for not only goal-scoring opportunities like penalties but also goal scoring positions. A 10/CAM who would rather be ahead of their striker to score than drop off to link up play is a greedy one.

I have seen him intentionally playing the striker wide or short for an expected in-behind or an in-behind for an expected short as he runs forward to expect the ball back for a goal-scoring opportunity. A normal football viewer will miss some of this stuff but when you play the front line you know. Check Martial's body language recently with the recent passes from Bruno or shots.

This greedy breed of 10s play with their heads down, having more shots than even the strikers, looking for penalties and free kicks instead of passes, the showmanship to press - because they want to hog all the limelight. Give me a lazy CAM in Ozil / Zizou / Zico who don't press or trackback. The heaviest presses that Bruno makes are when he loses the ball - just a show! Authentic 10s don't feel overly guilty about losing the ball, worst of all, they can't be running around headless! Zidane in his last world cup was allowed to not press/trackback - his role was to receive the ball and spread it. Bruno has Matic and Pogba in the centre and he goes hiding in the wing and the front line. Recently it is Martial & Rashford coming back to play as #10 to bring the ball forward while he is hiding in the wing or playing on the shoulder.

The #10 role had started to be phased out of modern football because hardly any players were technical enough and selfless enough to play it well. A good 10/CAM in their element would have an open goal and still be willing to square the ball for another player to score. OGS should play 4-3-3 and keep that #10 role as obsolete as modern managers have rendered it.

Lastly, a 10 does not need much pace to perform, they need the ball and a lot of it - a 10 can walk on the pitch the whole game and still perform. Players in EPL use speed and running around to show fans that they care and therefore masking ability on the ball.

Just because you wrote a long post a while ago doesn't make it a good post worth revisiting. There aren't enough words to criticise this post.

 

[amsoUG]

Just because you wrote a long post a while ago doesn't make it a good post worth revisiting. There aren't enough words to criticise this post.

Am not a hater, just stating what I observe! This dude is not natively a Portuguese-like CAM like a Deco, am sure he must have played as a winger or MF in his career before but not all-out CAM because CAMs are comfortable in the crowded and central spaces that he seems to shun.

Wait for the Euros and World Cup, he will be exposed once the English media hype is turned off. As a Utd fan, am hoping that he can realign his game or be moved to CM and DVB in CAM - otherwise going to a less crowded flank to receive the ball only to cross it to the opposite flank is not how a world-class CAM should play.

Btw, have you watched Portugal play?

 

[amsoUG]

Improved our results, but for the title, we need to improve as a collective.

 

[Rozay]

I am all for the Lukaku disrespect. He was hella disrespectful during his time at United and was officially one of the laziest players in the league according to running stats but he did a lot of pointing for others to run places like a big time Charlie. I don't even think you need to speak about players respectfully on a forum unless they are dead. Its not like we are saying to their face or on Twitter. They will never see nor care and continue making bank despite what is said on the Caf. Just don't be abusive or distasteful.

I have little issue with ill will to Lukaku following his departure. I do, however, think he was spoken of distastefully while he was with us. As is Jesse Lingard. Fans can say what they feel, I can’t stop them, but on a forum, I will say my piece on it that’s all.

And tbh, in the case of Lukaku and Fernandes, the respect I was speaking of was more a respect for their numbers. As I’ve said, I don’t find Bruno the most awe-inspiring #10 I’ve seen in my lifetime by a long way, but I certainly respect his numbers. I also absolutely respect that we perhaps more needed someone who could just come in and affect the outcome of a match on the most basic level - chances, goals, assists and I feel that 100%, Bruno was the player we needed at the time he came to us. I don’t feel he’s the player we need when the team has transformed from the caterpillar to the full butterfly equivalent - but that player, whoever he is, was probably not one the team was ready for last January. If Grealish can put up respectable numbers with any consistency, he is far closer to what I see as a conventional top level 10. He’s hard to dispossess, he can carry the ball, beat men, do the outrageous etc. Basically, Bruno doesn’t bring any fantasy out of me, but he certainly gets my respect as a player because you have to respect a player who achieves what he has in terms of numbers. My view is similar of Lukaku, for the record. He doesn’t get me off my seat and he isn’t like the great strikers I’ve always rated, but as a striker I think he should at the least be respected.

 

[VeevaVee]

That’s the worst thing I’ve ever had the misfortune of watching

 

[Sultan]

Bruno is not just about numbers and quality of his footballing acumen. Leadership, pressing, tracking back makes him a lot more important to the team. I'd worry about this team if he had a long term injury.

I wish we had a few more players of his and Cavani's attitude.

 

[Rozay]

Bruno is not just about numbers and quality of his footballing acumen. Leadership, pressing, tracking back makes him a lot more important to the team. I'd worry about this team if he had a long term injury.

I wish we had a few more players of his and Cavani's attitude.

I agree. I should have added those things too. But my point still stands. I respect those qualities, but those are not the qualities that draw me to a #10.

I think top teams need to be careful with the workrate emphasis in general tbh. Maybe it is partly as a result of a lack of quality around, but the game is going down a route where it’s less about quality/genius and all about everyone trying to outwork each other. In certain areas of the pitch - Fernandes or Cavani roles, or the Neymar, Messi, Hazard roles etc - I do wish the conversation about running and pressing was turned down just a tad.

As I said for me, it’s a lot about preference, and the football I grew up watching that made me fall in love with the game. I would like us to go back to where the better attacking players are players who can do things with the ball that few others can. It’s all stats and running now. And I don’t think that everyone should walk around the pitch either, don’t get me wrong, but I do feel it’s all ‘character, intensity, pressing, attitude’ these days in general.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Talked about this last season in July, - still hold the same opinion.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-2020-performances.453043/page-86#post-25804233

Full post here (Posted July 2020):

I have watched Bruno from afar, and recently he is just like another Lampard, Rodriguez - stat merchants - the kind who frustrate strikers!

Having played 10/11 and worn #10 at the junior level, and studied my favourite 10s in Rivaldo, Zidane, Dinho, Ozil.... though not enough to critic but enough to know that players who play 10 like Lampard and Bruno make the strikers' jobs a drag. 10s like Lampard and Bruno are the greedy ones: always competing with strikers for not only goal-scoring opportunities like penalties but also goal scoring positions. A 10/CAM who would rather be ahead of their striker to score than drop off to link up play is a greedy one.

I have seen him intentionally playing the striker wide or short for an expected in-behind or an in-behind for an expected short as he runs forward to expect the ball back for a goal-scoring opportunity. A normal football viewer will miss some of this stuff but when you play the front line you know. Check Martial's body language recently with the recent passes from Bruno or shots.

This greedy breed of 10s play with their heads down, having more shots than even the strikers, looking for penalties and free kicks instead of passes, the showmanship to press - because they want to hog all the limelight. Give me a lazy CAM in Ozil / Zizou / Zico who don't press or trackback. The heaviest presses that Bruno makes are when he loses the ball - just a show! Authentic 10s don't feel overly guilty about losing the ball, worst of all, they can't be running around headless! Zidane in his last world cup was allowed to not press/trackback - his role was to receive the ball and spread it. Bruno has Matic and Pogba in the centre and he goes hiding in the wing and the front line. Recently it is Martial & Rashford coming back to play as #10 to bring the ball forward while he is hiding in the wing or playing on the shoulder.

The #10 role had started to be phased out of modern football because hardly any players were technical enough and selfless enough to play it well. A good 10/CAM in their element would have an open goal and still be willing to square the ball for another player to score. OGS should play 4-3-3 and keep that #10 role as obsolete as modern managers have rendered it.

Lastly, a 10 does not need much pace to perform, they need the ball and a lot of it - a 10 can walk on the pitch the whole game and still perform. Players in EPL use speed and running around to show fans that they care and therefore masking ability on the ball.

Lampard never the seemingly complete freedom Bruno has though, I disagree with a lot of what you have written. His issue is not greediness - I actually think he's a model team player - it's that he needs to be controlled because at the moment his positional discipline is shocking and it drags our whole midfield out of shape. The big teams all struggled with us last season but look our record this season, Bruno was a bit of an enigma but teams are working his role out - he can still have an influence as he's class but just needs more discipline and more of a set system around him in my opinion.

 

[lost7]

Lampard never the seemingly complete freedom Bruno has though, I disagree with a lot of what you have written. His issue is not greediness - I actually think he's a model team player - it's that he needs to be controlled because at the moment his positional discipline is shocking and it drags our whole midfield out of shape. The big teams all struggled with us last season but look our record this season, Bruno was a bit of an enigma but teams are working his role out - he can still have an influence as he's class but just needs more discipline and more of a set system around him in my opinion.

Yep I agree, I think we'll improve as a team if Bruno become less of a second striker and more of an attacking midfielder. His output in terms of goals/assists may decrease, but overall I think we'll benefit greatly in terms of play. Sometimes I notice one of our midfielders/defenders have the ball in our own half and we have no outlet whatsoever because it feels like everyone else is so high up.

Although to be fair football is a game of small margins. If he had scored that curler yesterday, we would all have different opinions most likely

 

[Sultan]

I agree. I should have added those things too. But my point still stands. I respect those qualities, but those are not the qualities that draw me to a #10.

I think top teams need to be careful with the workrate emphasis in general tbh. Maybe it is partly as a result of a lack of quality around, but the game is going down a route where it’s less about quality/genius and all about everyone trying to outwork each other. In certain areas of the pitch - Fernandes or Cavani roles, or the Neymar, Messi, Hazard roles etc - I do wish the conversation about running and pressing was turned down just a tad.

As I said for me, it’s a lot about preference, and the football I grew up watching that made me fall in love with the game. I would like us to go back to where the better attacking players are players who can do things with the ball that few others can. It’s all stats and running now. And I don’t think that everyone should walk around the pitch either, don’t get me wrong, but I do feel it’s all ‘character, intensity, pressing, attitude’ these days in general.

Absolutely agree.

I remember Sir Alex asking Giggs as he got older to change the number of runs he made and choose his moments to preserve his longevity.

Football has changed. We used to judge players by our eyes. There is no question Bruno is not in the same league in terms of talent as Messi, Neymar or a prime Hazard but he adds his lack of that sheer talent with other qualities which makes him a vital cog for the team at present. Like yourself, I would always put talent first, but not everyone can be a Messi, Ronaldo, or De Bryune.

 

[AshRK]

I agree. I should have added those things too. But my point still stands. I respect those qualities, but those are not the qualities that draw me to a #10.

I think top teams need to be careful with the workrate emphasis in general tbh. Maybe it is partly as a result of a lack of quality around, but the game is going down a route where it’s less about quality/genius and all about everyone trying to outwork each other. In certain areas of the pitch - Fernandes or Cavani roles, or the Neymar, Messi, Hazard roles etc - I do wish the conversation about running and pressing was turned down just a tad.

As I said for me, it’s a lot about preference, and the football I grew up watching that made me fall in love with the game. I would like us to go back to where the better attacking players are players who can do things with the ball that few others can. It’s all stats and running now. And I don’t think that everyone should walk around the pitch either, don’t get me wrong, but I do feel it’s all ‘character, intensity, pressing, attitude’ these days in general.

Football has changed. You see these xg stats etc and for a Football purists these things doesn't matter. I bet if sir alex was managing now he wouldn't have been getting that much credit as he doesn't talk about pattern of plays and tactics.

 

[Rozay]

Absolutely agree.

I remember Sir Alex asking Giggs as he got older to change the number of runs he made and choose his moments to preserve his longevity.

Football has changed. We used to judge players by our eyes. There is no question Bruno is not in the same league in terms of talent as Messi, Neymar or a prime Hazard but he adds his lack of that sheer talent with other qualities which makes him a vital cog for the team at present. Like yourself, I would always put talent first, but not everyone can be a Messi, Ronaldo, or De Bryune.

In fairness to Bruno, I’m not saying he has to have Messi, Neymar kind of ability anyway. But he’s not top tier talent wise to me, and as a result - there will always be room, perhaps not loads of room - but room above him for us to upgrade. That is not to slight him, but there is scope, whether now, whether in two years - for a 10 to come along who can run but also has a superior level of talent that enables the team to firstly keep possession and knot better - but also make the difference against the very best.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Talked about this last season in July, - still hold the same opinion.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-2020-performances.453043/page-86#post-25804233

Full post here (Posted July 2020):

I have watched Bruno from afar, and recently he is just like another Lampard, Rodriguez - stat merchants - the kind who frustrate strikers!

Having played 10/11 and worn #10 at the junior level, and studied my favourite 10s in Rivaldo, Zidane, Dinho, Ozil.... though not enough to critic but enough to know that players who play 10 like Lampard and Bruno make the strikers' jobs a drag. 10s like Lampard and Bruno are the greedy ones: always competing with strikers for not only goal-scoring opportunities like penalties but also goal scoring positions. A 10/CAM who would rather be ahead of their striker to score than drop off to link up play is a greedy one.

I have seen him intentionally playing the striker wide or short for an expected in-behind or an in-behind for an expected short as he runs forward to expect the ball back for a goal-scoring opportunity. A normal football viewer will miss some of this stuff but when you play the front line you know. Check Martial's body language recently with the recent passes from Bruno or shots.

This greedy breed of 10s play with their heads down, having more shots than even the strikers, looking for penalties and free kicks instead of passes, the showmanship to press - because they want to hog all the limelight. Give me a lazy CAM in Ozil / Zizou / Zico who don't press or trackback. The heaviest presses that Bruno makes are when he loses the ball - just a show! Authentic 10s don't feel overly guilty about losing the ball, worst of all, they can't be running around headless! Zidane in his last world cup was allowed to not press/trackback - his role was to receive the ball and spread it. Bruno has Matic and Pogba in the centre and he goes hiding in the wing and the front line. Recently it is Martial & Rashford coming back to play as #10 to bring the ball forward while he is hiding in the wing or playing on the shoulder.

The #10 role had started to be phased out of modern football because hardly any players were technical enough and selfless enough to play it well. A good 10/CAM in their element would have an open goal and still be willing to square the ball for another player to score. OGS should play 4-3-3 and keep that #10 role as obsolete as modern managers have rendered it.

Lastly, a 10 does not need much pace to perform, they need the ball and a lot of it - a 10 can walk on the pitch the whole game and still perform. Players in EPL use speed and running around to show fans that they care and therefore masking ability on the ball.

It'll help if you don't think of him as a midfielder or even a #10 at all.

Our shape recently has been 4-4-2/ 4-2-4 and he's playing as a striker akin to Griezmann; only he has a ton of positional freedom.

 

[Rozay]

Football has changed. You see these xg stats etc and for a Football purists these things doesn't matter. I bet if sir alex was managing now he wouldn't have been getting that much credit as he doesn't talk about pattern of plays and tactics.

Yea, and I kind of understand why it changed too. Quite simply, there was too little top, top level talent in the game, and what was there was typically concentrated at a few clubs. The issue is, there were many more clubs that had money/prestige too, and we couldn’t all just accept that we won’t win - so the gap has to be closed somehow.

Running and outworking is a great neutraliser I think, and it gives everyone a chance pretty much. Not many teams now have individuals that are of a superior level to everyone else’s, so outworking the opponent is of greater emphasis, and the fine margins are all micro-analysed now.

Players I grew up watching who were considered the world’s best are now considered ‘luxury players’.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Once we bring in more quality and the creative burden isn't solely put on his and Rashford's shoulders we'll likely see a more rounded performer. At the moment Ole is getting the most out of him offensively, even if he does lose the ball on occasions.
Now If Bruno was to tone down his creative instincts in this current side then we'll likely be alot worse off.
Bruno being who he is at the present is something we just have to accept.
This is my feeling anyway.

 

[Rozay]

Once we bring in more quality and the creative burden isn't solely put on his and Rashford's shoulders we'll likely see a more rounded performer. At the moment Ole is getting the most out of him offensively, even if he does lose the ball on occasions.
Now If Bruno was to tone down his creative instincts in this current side then we'll likely be alot worse off.
Bruno being who he is at the present is something we just have to accept.
This is my feeling anyway.

You see, I feel it is actually the opposite. Bruno is exactly the #10 we need NOW because we don’t have consistent top level attacking quality in the team. Right now, we don’t need the fanciest, we need productivity to help us win games.

IF, hypothetically, we has great technicians on top of their game creating and scoring chances at will, playing great football, then in my opinion, Bruno would then be exposed a little. It’s been said, for example, that ‘Bruno isn’t a Pep player’ and wouldn’t play for a City or a Barca. If we had that type of quality passing and cohesive unit - then we would be more suited to a Bernardo Silva/David Silva type of player in the 10 role. The 10 wouldn’t be required to have 30 goal involvements for example - the emphasis would be on passing, press resistance and ball retention.

As it stands, a David Silva, for example, isn’t the player we need as much as we need a Bruno. And that is because we have forwards who can barely be relied upon to score goals, full backs who struggle to contribute offensively and midfielders who are better without the ball than they are with it.

 

[horsechoker]

Once we bring in more quality and the creative burden isn't solely put on his and Rashford's shoulders we'll likely see a more rounded performer. At the moment Ole is getting the most out of him offensively, even if he does lose the ball on occasions.
Now If Bruno was to tone down his creative instincts in this current side then we'll likely be alot worse off.
Bruno being who he is at the present is something we just have to accept.
This is my feeling anyway.

To me it's more about keeping everyone in form at the same time. The last time everyone was in form from an attacking perspective was just after restart.

This season Martial has been out of form, Rashford has blown hot and cold, Greenwood has had a few good moments but not enough and now Fernandes is struggling. Pogba is the only one who is in form and he's often playing deep or wide where he can only create for others.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yep I agree, I think we'll improve as a team if Bruno become less of a second striker and more of an attacking midfielder. His output in terms of goals/assists may decrease, but overall I think we'll benefit greatly in terms of play. Sometimes I notice one of our midfielders/defenders have the ball in our own half and we have no outlet whatsoever because it feels like everyone else is so high up.

Although to be fair football is a game of small margins. If he had scored that curler yesterday, we would all have different opinions most likely

Exactly, you can freeze frame when Pogba or Fred has the ball deep and sometimes you have four attackers all playing on the shoulder of the defensive line. Need that connector in the AM role more centrally at least occasionally for the more patient approach.

 

[Stacks]

I have little issue with ill will to Lukaku following his departure. I do, however, think he was spoken of distastefully while he was with us. As is Jesse Lingard. Fans can say what they feel, I can’t stop them, but on a forum, I will say my piece on it that’s all.

And tbh, in the case of Lukaku and Fernandes, the respect I was speaking of was more a respect for their numbers. As I’ve said, I don’t find Bruno the most awe-inspiring #10 I’ve seen in my lifetime by a long way, but I certainly respect his numbers. I also absolutely respect that we perhaps more needed someone who could just come in and affect the outcome of a match on the most basic level - chances, goals, assists and I feel that 100%, Bruno was the player we needed at the time he came to us. I don’t feel he’s the player we need when the team has transformed from the caterpillar to the full butterfly equivalent - but that player, whoever he is, was probably not one the team was ready for last January. If Grealish can put up respectable numbers with any consistency, he is far closer to what I see as a conventional top level 10. He’s hard to dispossess, he can carry the ball, beat men, do the outrageous etc. Basically, Bruno doesn’t bring any fantasy out of me, but he certainly gets my respect as a player because you have to respect a player who achieves what he has in terms of numbers. My view is similar of Lukaku, for the record. He doesn’t get me off my seat and he isn’t like the great strikers I’ve always rated, but as a striker I think he should at the least be respected.

that's fair. I think we should just have both (Grealish and Bruno). 20 goals and 10-15 assists is hard to replace and very few teams in Europe have and AMC who has that kind of output. Sometimes you need match winners in the team. Everyone has their role. We shouldn't have to play 'through' Bruno which is part of the problem. We rely too much on him to create something or score. He isn't as bad in build up as people make out as I have seen some amazing one touch moves and attacks he has launched through a deft bit of skill but her certainly ain't traditional. That said, the rulebook says you win by making the ball cross the line so having as many players who can facilitate this as possible, provides the greatest chance of winning games.

 

[SportingCP96]

Aren't you guys currently top? You have no faith that you'll maintain the position?

Yes we are and no I don’t believe we have. I have see this story many of Times. If we could not win the title in 15/16 I don’t know when we can.

I hope to god I am wrong and today is a big game to determine how serious we are about winning the title.

Sporting vs Benfica today.

 

[Grande]

You see, I feel it is actually the opposite. Bruno is exactly the #10 we need NOW because we don’t have consistent top level attacking quality in the team. Right now, we don’t need the fanciest, we need productivity to help us win games.

IF, hypothetically, we has great technicians on top of their game creating and scoring chances at will, playing great football, then in my opinion, Bruno would then be exposed a little. It’s been said, for example, that ‘Bruno isn’t a Pep player’ and wouldn’t play for a City or a Barca. If we had that type of quality passing and cohesive unit - then we would be more suited to a Bernardo Silva/David Silva type of player in the 10 role. The 10 wouldn’t be required to have 30 goal involvements for example - the emphasis would be on passing, press resistance and ball retention.

As it stands, a David Silva, for example, isn’t the player we need as much as we need a Bruno. And that is because we have forwards who can barely be relied upon to score goals, full backs who struggle to contribute offensively and midfielders who are better without the ball than they are with it.

I think you are right and you are wrong - right about Bruno not being a Pep player, wrong about the reason why. I think Bruno has the technique to play ball retention with a class of top recyclers, but I don’t think he has the patience and it will not make full use of his talent, which is that his mind works in overdrive to create and expose imbalances rapidly. This is most effective with a team looking for his passes and movement and playing directly towards goal. An example - had he played for LvG in a club side, he would become mad being constantly shown videos of himself and told in front of the others that he took the wrong choice and should have made a side pass to win a yard instead of a lob to win twenty. Had he played for LvG in the Netherlands NT, being told to follow certain principles but apart from that go take responsibility and be creative with Robben and Van Persie, Netherlands might have won that world cup. Or how Zlatan has been the best player for several trophy winning teams, but couldn’t play for Pep. Horses for courses, but it’s not like Pep has found the superior course. He is just one of the best jockeys around ever for certain kinds of horses.

I’ll compare Bruno to Cantona, even if Cantona was about panache as well, his greatest gift was that he was for function and had the confidence to regularily try the outrageous if it could lead to a goal. With players and coaches who needed him to fit into a system, he was good (but frustrated). With players and coaches who wanted to exploit his talent and follow his lead, he was brilliant, and more efficient actually than flashy, despite all the gems our memory will never forget. Now, I thinkFerguson and United used his departure as an opportunity for growth and hence were even better, but I don’t think that he was a hindermemt to improving, or that it wouldn’t be possible to become as dominant a team with him in it.

 

[always_hoping]

Bruno is not just about numbers and quality of his footballing acumen. Leadership, pressing, tracking back makes him a lot more important to the team. I'd worry about this team if he had a long term injury.

I wish we had a few more players of his and Cavani's attitude.

Yes not enough Bruno like players on the team. A year today since his debut. Right now 2nd and 6 points ahead of 5th compared to then 6th and 5 points off 4th.

 

[roonster09]

Yes we are and no I don’t believe we have. I have see this story many of Times. If we could not win the title in 15/16 I don’t know when we can.

I hope to god I am wrong and today is a big game to determine how serious we are about winning the title.

Sporting vs Benfica today.

If you guys win the league, this thread will be shitfest, saying how he was the one holding your team back.

Hopefully you will win it.

 

[Rozay]

I think you are right and you are wrong - right about Bruno not being a Pep player, wrong about the reason why. I think Bruno has the technique to play ball retention with a class of top recyclers, but I don’t think he has the patience and it will not make full use of his talent, which is that his mind works in overdrive to create and expose imbalances rapidly. This is most effective with a team looking for his passes and movement and playing directly towards goal. An example - had he played for LvG in a club side, he would become mad being constantly shown videos of himself and told in front of the others that he took the wrong choice and should have made a side pass to win a yard instead of a lob to win twenty. Had he played for LvG in the Netherlands NT, being told to follow certain principles but apart from that go take responsibility and be creative with Robben and Van Persie, Netherlands might have won that world cup. Or how Zlatan has been the best player for several trophy winning teams, but couldn’t play for Pep. Horses for courses, but it’s not like Pep has found the superior course. He is just one of the best jockeys around ever for certain kinds of horses.

I’ll compare Bruno to Cantona, even if Cantona was about panache as well, his greatest gift was that he was for function and had the confidence to regularily try the outrageous if it could lead to a goal. With players and coaches who needed him to fit into a system, he was good (but frustrated). With players and coaches who wanted to exploit his talent and follow his lead, he was brilliant, and more efficient actually than flashy, despite all the gems our memory will never forget. Now, I thinkFerguson and United used his departure as an opportunity for growth and hence were even better, but I don’t think that he was a hindermemt to improving, or that it wouldn’t be possible to become as dominant a team with him in it.

He doesn’t have the press resistance for me. You can’t compare his feet with someone like Bernardo Silva’s or Phil Foden.

I think in a generation gone by, he would have probably been a more traditional central midfielder (a goalscoring one). He doesn’t have the silk of a 10 of yesteryear, but he does have a great eye for goal and a great engine and is probably suited to going both ways (on the pitch!)

But I don’t think he’s a Barca type player if he simply wanted to, more a Bayern type of player to me. And I’m not saying that type of football is the only way to play - but the teams I gave have been the most consistent at controlling games in recent times, because they have the players to do it. We don’t have to control a game of course, and can continue to rely on transitions etc - but as the team develops more and more, I suspect we would want to dictate the ball more often than we do. Currently, we don’t have the players to do so from back to front, not just #10.Bruno is the 10 we need for the team we have I think.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yes we are and no I don’t believe we have. I have see this story many of Times. If we could not win the title in 15/16 I don’t know when we can.

I hope to god I am wrong and today is a big game to determine how serious we are about winning the title.

Sporting vs Benfica today.

Out of interest, how do Sporting fans see this season? Any differences without Bruno positive or negative in how the team plays because he's a quite a unique player positionally and I cna't imagine there's a straight swap scenario?

 

[SportingCP96]

If you guys win the league, this thread will be shitfest, saying how he was the one holding your team back.

Hopefully you will win it.

That would come with no base if that is said.
Unless you follow the league and the teams and know the context I don’t feel it’s fair for someone to make that claim. People need to realize we haven’t won the league in 20 years.

I do believe you though that that will be said

 

[roonster09]

That would come with no base if that is said.
Unless you follow the league and the teams and know the context I don’t feel it’s fair for someone to make that claim. People need to realize we haven’t won the league in 20 years.

I do believe you though that that will be said

Well your expectations are unrealistic, people all of a sudden became experts on Norwegian league when Ole was doing bad, they even challenged regular Norwegian league fans. So what I said will happen for sure.

 

[SportingCP96]

Out of interest, how do Sporting fans see this season? Any differences without Bruno positive or negative in how the team plays because he's a quite a unique player positionally and I cna't imagine there's a straight swap scenario?

If we had Bruno this season I think we would be far more ahead by now.

This team is a very young team and the coach is very young as well. The spirit in this team is there greatest attribute as they fight until the very end but we are missing a goal scorer. We urgently need another striker.

Bruno would of loved to play with these young guys and the team would be significantly stronger with him.

I urge everyone to watch the big game today!

a win from Sporting today would send us 9 points clear of Benfica. We haven’t beat Benfica at home in the league since 2012.....

 

[SportingCP96]

Well your expectations are unrealistic, people all of a sudden became experts on Norwegian league when Ole was doing bad, they even challenged regular Norwegian league fans. So what I said will happen for sure.

I’ve been in the CAF long enough to know for a fact that you are correct! Haha

Rest assured though Sporting won’t win the league anyways, I’ve become numb to this and know how this scenario ends for us..

 

[Ali Dia]

If we had Bruno this season I think we would be far more ahead by now.

This team is a very young team and the coach is very young as well. The spirit in this team is there greatest attribute as they fight until the very end but we are missing a goal scorer. We urgently need another striker.

Bruno would of loved to play with these young guys and the team would be significantly stronger with him.

I urge everyone to watch the big game today!

a win from Sporting today would send us 9 points clear of Benfica. We haven’t beat Benfica at home in the league since 2012.....

how is Nuno Mendez getting on?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Talked about this last season in July, - still hold the same opinion.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-2020-performances.453043/page-86#post-25804233

Full post here (Posted July 2020):

I have watched Bruno from afar, and recently he is just like another Lampard, Rodriguez - stat merchants - the kind who frustrate strikers!

Having played 10/11 and worn #10 at the junior level, and studied my favourite 10s in Rivaldo, Zidane, Dinho, Ozil.... though not enough to critic but enough to know that players who play 10 like Lampard and Bruno make the strikers' jobs a drag. 10s like Lampard and Bruno are the greedy ones: always competing with strikers for not only goal-scoring opportunities like penalties but also goal scoring positions. A 10/CAM who would rather be ahead of their striker to score than drop off to link up play is a greedy one.

I have seen him intentionally playing the striker wide or short for an expected in-behind or an in-behind for an expected short as he runs forward to expect the ball back for a goal-scoring opportunity. A normal football viewer will miss some of this stuff but when you play the front line you know. Check Martial's body language recently with the recent passes from Bruno or shots.

This greedy breed of 10s play with their heads down, having more shots than even the strikers, looking for penalties and free kicks instead of passes, the showmanship to press - because they want to hog all the limelight. Give me a lazy CAM in Ozil / Zizou / Zico who don't press or trackback. The heaviest presses that Bruno makes are when he loses the ball - just a show! Authentic 10s don't feel overly guilty about losing the ball, worst of all, they can't be running around headless! Zidane in his last world cup was allowed to not press/trackback - his role was to receive the ball and spread it. Bruno has Matic and Pogba in the centre and he goes hiding in the wing and the front line. Recently it is Martial & Rashford coming back to play as #10 to bring the ball forward while he is hiding in the wing or playing on the shoulder.

The #10 role had started to be phased out of modern football because hardly any players were technical enough and selfless enough to play it well. A good 10/CAM in their element would have an open goal and still be willing to square the ball for another player to score. OGS should play 4-3-3 and keep that #10 role as obsolete as modern managers have rendered it.

Lastly, a 10 does not need much pace to perform, they need the ball and a lot of it - a 10 can walk on the pitch the whole game and still perform. Players in EPL use speed and running around to show fans that they care and therefore masking ability on the ball.

Honestly, this is largely nonsense. Bruno is clearly a joy for the strikers to play with considering he's one of the few players that actually creates opportunities. Yes he's wasteful and that can be costly, but to criticize him by saying he's too greedy is just plain wrong. Loads of pundits including Van Persie, Cole, even Scholes himself have said they would love to play with Bruno. Frankly, the fact you'd prefer Ozil says a lot, o think Fernandes is twice the player because that work rate is an asset.

 

[tomaldinho1]

If we had Bruno this season I think we would be far more ahead by now.

This team is a very young team and the coach is very young as well. The spirit in this team is there greatest attribute as they fight until the very end but we are missing a goal scorer. We urgently need another striker.

Bruno would of loved to play with these young guys and the team would be significantly stronger with him.

I urge everyone to watch the big game today!

a win from Sporting today would send us 9 points clear of Benfica. We haven’t beat Benfica at home in the league since 2012.....

You've sold me, these days I'm probably watching more football than ever in the late kick offs! Any particular players you'd recommend a non Liga Nos watcher should look out for (also from Benfica if it's not taboo to rate their payers )?

 

[yamo123x]

Our Portugese magician has been poor of late, the team relies on him so much to deliver and i feel we do not have any creativity other than him. If he dont play well we dont play well.

This is why we need to add another 1 or 2 creative players who can ease the burden on him and give us an extra dimension when playing again compact defences.

With Mata and Lingard both likely to move on in the summer, Pogba possibly through the exit door and Martial very poor too i would hope we would target the likes of Sancho and Grealish to give us an extra dimension.

 

[SportingCP96]

how is Nuno Mendez getting on?

Best Left back in the league. He had a small slump due to injury in December but he is back to his brilliant best. The players below have been the standouts of this shocking great campaign so far.

-Nuno Mendes
- Pedro Porro
- Pedro Goncalves
- Joao Palhinha (Monster CDM and our most important player)

 

[SportingCP96]

You've sold me, these days I'm probably watching more football than ever in the late kick offs! Any particular players you'd recommend a non Liga Nos watcher should look out for (also from Benfica if it's not taboo to rate their payers )?

This game will have many potential transfer targets in display

Sporting:
-Nuno Mendes (left back) 18 years old
- Pedro Porro (right back) 21 years old
- Pedro Goncalves (CAM/wide forward) 22 years old
- Joao Palhinha 24 year old (Monster CDM and our most important player) ** Wont be able to play this game because of a BS booking
- Tiago Tomas 18 year old sporting striker already 5 goals this season has been great for us
- Matheus Nunes 22 year old will be playing in Palhinhas position

Benfica:
Darwin Nunez (Striker)
Rafa (winger) dam good player in our league
Jan Vertonghen and Otamendi also are in Benfica former EPL players you all know.

HUGE title race game especially with Porto at our heels and this could be a gut punch game to Benfica which would put them on there knees in this title race.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Our Portugese magician has been poor of late, the team relies on him so much to deliver and i feel we do not have any creativity other than him. If he dont play well we dont play well.

This is why we need to add another 1 or 2 creative players who can ease the burden on him and give us an extra dimension when playing again compact defences.

With Mata and Lingard both likely to move on in the summer, Pogba possibly through the exit door and Martial very poor too i would hope we would target the likes of Sancho and Grealish to give us an extra dimension.

I don’t agree with this. I think he needs to get better at holding on to the ball, working the ball about and choose better positions so that he can bring others in to play. Having more creative players around him isn’t going to help if he’s just going to ping something forward every minute glimpse of an opening. One of our biggest flaws is our lack of ability to create or sustain chances due to our Midfield just not being great at working as a unit.

Ole has said it as well, we try to force things too often and try Hollywood passes and need to cut that out. If we can do that and our midfield and especially him just get better at working together and trying to move defences about to create spaces we as a team will be doing much better.

No doubt if people leave we will need replacements and you’ve listed some great ones but nothing will change unless the midfield gets better in possesion.