[captaincantona]

You don’t have to reconsider anything on Pogba it’s fact. That Bruno would be considered a success if he left tomorrow is nothing more than positive regard rather than achievement. Pogba wasn’t really welcomed back and if he performs like Bruno today and we lose 4-1 it’s the subject of the media debates post match. The Atalanta game as the prime example. ‘We have to talk about Paul Pogba’ with a banner of him on display behind. All the pundits having a say. This has a massive bearing on opinion. Bruno doesn’t have that to cope with. He was hands down by some distance the worst player on the pitch today and we lost 4-1 to Watford. He’s been consistently woeful since January yet if you didn’t watch him week in week out youd never know. Pogba has poor ‘recent form’ the world is made aware.

Ah yes..the old...”it’s fact” argument before going on to state an opinion...how does that usually work for you...do people usually just apologise and say they didnt know you had the facts?

if you thinkPogba has helped Utd “achieve” anything during his time here I would safely say you are in the minority. He has been a complete and utter waste of time and effort...while I recognise his talent and ability I am honest about what he has done on the pitch for Man Utd and only his family members or one of his barbers would say that he has been remotely decent. So that’s how I know you’re his barber...because you are blaming anyone and everyone for his ordinary performances in a red shirt except him.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[bosnian_red]

Hes a very emotional player. I think he lost belief in Solskjaer long ago and while the work ethic remained, he became much more uncontrolled and tried forcing shit way too much and got a lot worse as a result.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Him having a go at supporters after his performances this season doesn't sit right for me. He's been stinking the place up for awhile now, don't give me this "we're backing the manager" bullshit after what I've seen from him recently.

 

[Jeppers7]

Ah yes..the old...”it’s fact” argument before going on to state an opinion...how does that usually work for you...do people usually just apologise and say they didnt know you had the facts?

if you thinkPogba has helped Utd “achieve” anything during his time here I would safely say you are in the minority. He has been a complete and utter waste of time and effort...while I recognise his talent and ability I am honest about what he has done on the pitch for Man Utd and only his family members or one of his barbers would say that he has been remotely decent. So that’s how I know you’re his barber...because you are blaming anyone and everyone for his ordinary performances in a red shirt except him.

But that’s just my opinion.

No the fact being that one of the two has won something (successful) and was UEFA player of the tournament when we won something (helped to achieve).

In my opinion, to date the other started like a house on fire but has been consistently poor for 11 months now and ,other than the odd game, his form fell off a cliff when we went top of the league.

Both have had limited impact in big games but you can find good performances in them from both if you dig hard enough.

I don’t think either have been great, or very dissimilar overall. Pogba has been here longer and cost more. Is less of an impact player and has had streaks of good/bad form. We’ve struggled to find a way to get the best out of him but we’ve seen excellent performances many many times, but is swept under the carpet.
Bruno hasn’t been here as long and arrived with less expectation into a more balanced team, albeit with a lesser manager in hindsight, had a big immediate impact and was credited for single handidly transforming our season despite Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Matic all being huge parts of the post lockdown run. Even in that time Bruno started to have streaks of good/bad form as all players do, but we saw many excellent performances also, however he’s been poor since january and that’s almost a year now. The media do not and have not discussed Bruno’s poor performances in this time, while Pogba was excellent week in week out for much of the second half of last season, the Euros and the very start of this, the minute he has a run of poor form ‘We must talk about’ him.
I think we may also find a new manager struggles to fit Bruno into a functioning side, depending on how they set the team up.

I get that people don’t like Pogba, hence the discussions generally becoming personal whenever someone doesn’t share the opinion that he’s been a complete waste, but I also think that clouds people’s judgement massively and they become irrational.

 

[Jeppers7]

Fatigued.

People are still saying this too

 

[theyneverlearn]

When Bruno is not on form he is a horrible player to have in the team. I feel he needs to reset and get back to basics. He’s trying too many things that just is not working and is causing a lot more harm than good at the moment as we cannot defend.

Once we get back to having a half decent defence and protection from midfield, we can afford to have him in the team.

 

[stoinz]

Hes a very emotional player. I think he lost belief in Solskjaer long ago and while the work ethic remained, he became much more uncontrolled and tried forcing shit way too much and got a lot worse as a result.

This is what I felt too. It seems he just doesn't trust the game plan anymore and just tries too hard to force the issue. The work ethic is still there but the results however isn't. You can criticize his performance but it is not for lack of trying.

I may have digress a bit but the couple of players that looked totally disinterested recently are Rashford and AWB. Not sure both have always been playing this way but good results just masked it. Recently whenever I look at them, they just seemed so lazy and disinterested. Almost like the fire has burnt out. When you compare it with Bruno is completely day and night in terms of work ethic and passion.

 

[E-mal]

He is part of the problem, not disciplined in the way he plays the game. I believe a coach that wants control in the game would not accept his kind of approach to the game.
Anyway, let's hope he is part of the solution for the next regime.

 

[Idxomer]

People are still saying this too

And that's after what? 90 minutes of international football in two weeks.

 

[izec]

He needs to be also benchedy if in bad form. Nope lets play him every game.

 

[villain]

No the fact being that one of the two has won something (successful) and was UEFA player of the tournament when we won something (helped to achieve).

In my opinion, to date the other started like a house on fire but has been consistently poor for 11 months now and ,other than the odd game, his form fell off a cliff when we went top of the league.

Both have had limited impact in big games but you can find good performances in them from both if you dig hard enough.

I don’t think either have been great, or very dissimilar overall. Pogba has been here longer and cost more. Is less of an impact player and has had streaks of good/bad form. We’ve struggled to find a way to get the best out of him but we’ve seen excellent performances many many times, but is swept under the carpet.
Bruno hasn’t been here as long and arrived with less expectation into a more balanced team, albeit with a lesser manager in hindsight, had a big immediate impact and was credited for single handidly transforming our season despite Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Matic all being huge parts of the post lockdown run. Even in that time Bruno started to have streaks of good/bad form as all players do, but we saw many excellent performances also, however he’s been poor since january and that’s almost a year now. The media do not and have not discussed Bruno’s poor performances in this time, while Pogba was excellent week in week out for much of the second half of last season, the Euros and the very start of this, the minute he has a run of poor form ‘We must talk about’ him.
I think we may also find a new manager struggles to fit Bruno into a functioning side, depending on how they set the team up.

I get that people don’t like Pogba, hence the discussions generally becoming personal whenever someone doesn’t share the opinion that he’s been a complete waste, but I also think that clouds people’s judgement massively and they become irrational.

Great post

 

[foolsgold]

Badly out of form for months now. Really ought to have been dropped and Donny or Jessie given a few games in that position.

Needs a reset. But like others under Ole he was untouchable and it's been a major contribution in costing the manager his job.

 

[Isotope]

I like his semi quarter-back role in 2nd half. Really want to see more of it.

 

[Devil’s Trident]

Kamikaze footballer. Gives no importance to possession whatsoever. Will try 100 stupid passes giving the ball away 99 times without a care. Goes for the glory while relinquishing the midfield responsibility all the time. I hate this kind of football but people will point to his stats and say what a footballer but moan at the same time we don’t control the games. Also tries to be a leader of men when he himself is a cry baby.

 

[Leftback99]

He needs dropping under the next manager.

 

[captaincantona]

No the fact being that one of the two has won something (successful) and was UEFA player of the tournament when we won something (helped to achieve).

In my opinion, to date the other started like a house on fire but has been consistently poor for 11 months now and ,other than the odd game, his form fell off a cliff when we went top of the league.

Both have had limited impact in big games but you can find good performances in them from both if you dig hard enough.

I don’t think either have been great, or very dissimilar overall. Pogba has been here longer and cost more. Is less of an impact player and has had streaks of good/bad form. We’ve struggled to find a way to get the best out of him but we’ve seen excellent performances many many times, but is swept under the carpet.
Bruno hasn’t been here as long and arrived with less expectation into a more balanced team, albeit with a lesser manager in hindsight, had a big immediate impact and was credited for single handidly transforming our season despite Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Matic all being huge parts of the post lockdown run. Even in that time Bruno started to have streaks of good/bad form as all players do, but we saw many excellent performances also, however he’s been poor since january and that’s almost a year now. The media do not and have not discussed Bruno’s poor performances in this time, while Pogba was excellent week in week out for much of the second half of last season, the Euros and the very start of this, the minute he has a run of poor form ‘We must talk about’ him.
I think we may also find a new manager struggles to fit Bruno into a functioning side, depending on how they set the team up.

I get that people don’t like Pogba, hence the discussions generally becoming personal whenever someone doesn’t share the opinion that he’s been a complete waste, but I also think that clouds people’s judgement massively and they become irrational.

You hit the nail on the head with regard to expectation. Pogba was bought for a club record feed and paid stupid money and given time to settle and every opportunity to show the type of form he had for Juve and France. He was accommodated and swapped partners and positions and pundits far and wide spoke about why UTD, the manager, the players, could not get the best out of him...notwithstanding the fact that him and his agent court attention and play the media like no other and refuse to diffuse any tensions around his relationship with managers or long term tensions at the club. He seeks attention by expressing himself in the way he does but does not back it up on the pitch...So while I respect his immense immense talent and ability...I think you reap what you sow...if he conducts himself differently, shuts up his agent, accepts criticism for his lazy performances and perhaps learned to adapt to a league where he has to play quicker and track back consistently then we wouldn’t be having this discussion...but he hasn’t done that and for a player looking for €400k per week or whatever- shame on him because what part of him looking in the mirror thinks he is playing at a level even close to a €400 k per week???? Mourinho had him pegged...so did Ferguson.

On the other hand, Bruno cost half the money and earns a third the salary...yet he didn’t need to settle into a new league even though he was coming from a farmers 5 aside in comparison to the PL...he made DVB and Fred and Werner and Havertz and Keita and now even Sancho look like fuking liars by needing so long to “adapt” cause he just kept doing what everyone expected him to...we got what we paid for...and in keys stats alone (Which may be an unfair metric due to positional differences but none the less a metric with which impact on the team can be measured singularly) he slaughters Pogba’s output in less than half the time...he is never injured and runs a like his life depends on it...he is the antithesis of Pogba’s attitude...and even during this horrendous run of form his chance creation has remained high as he is a high risk player. That was who we bought-we expected a high risk high reward player who
Lost possession but created relentlessly. We all saw his stats and we all knew that’s why NO ONE else was in for him...he is too wasteful for Klopp or Pep! but Bruno has done more or less exactly what it said on the tin while reinvigorating the whole team when he joined and showing a child like tenacity on the pitch we hadn’t seen in a Utd shirt since Rooney. He has been muck of late but his profile is to get the head down and work harder- and diffuse shit in the media as soon as it comes out...not to allow his agent to stir the pot.

Most of all...when the chips are down...and we have our backs to the wall and are being pummelled or need a late equaliser or winner...only oneof those two players is everywhere on the pitch closing down, CALLING for theball, shouting at team mates and at least trying to make something happen (even if his final product is off) the other plods around looking for someone else to take responsibility...I know which one I would want to be playing alongside and considering what Pogba himself thinks he is worth...that is shameful and it’s no wonder Roy Keane and other top midfielders of yester year question his application so often.

and finally...player of the EL...why yes, quite the achievement...or is it that he is the biggest name in the tournament with the most marketable Global presence to raise the trophies profile and show that it’s worth watching??? He was in his BOLLOX player of the tournament and stood out in exactly NONE of our really tame and limited performances against European cannon fodder. Truthfully - what game did he shine in? He is getting paid Messi and Ronaldo money and yet plays like Jonjo Shelvey on a good day...That cup was a Mourinho master class with several Utd players carrying out their instructions to a tee to allow us to win the thing...Pogba was part of that butname me the magical performances he put in that won him the award?

let’s leave it there...I like Pogba and love to see him boss other players like they are kids, swotting them away as he strides forward with purpose...but overall I see him for what he is...a flop. We expected and paid for much more but his own attitude and his choice of agent let him down. The pace of the league doesn’t suit him...I hope he goes back to Italy. On the other hand, Bruno for me has built up credit and deserves some loyalty...I expect him to get back to somewhat near his best but to be hanging him out to dry so soon...I just won’t do it.

 

[Coops73]

He started great for us, he’s clearly one of our better players and I love his drive and work rate, he doesn’t hide but he’s been a bit shit for the last few months and his constant fecking whinging is getting on my tits.

Whether he’s been overplayed and fatigued or trying too hard I don’t know but he needs to sit out a few games in my opinion. Maybe a new manager would help.

 

[Red00012]

Not really sure why he wasn’t taken off for Lingard after 60 mins

 

[FattyFooty]

I love Bruno. But the chances hes wasting is horrible.

He also been very bad overall. And it hurts me, i love the dude. But this shit is not good enugh.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

After seeing the images on sky this morning, it's telling that when they all walked up to the fans, he did a circle motion around the players and then pointed to Ole to say, he's to blame

 

[TwoSheds]

After seeing the images on sky this morning, it's telling that when they all walked up to the fans, he did a circle motion around the players and then pointed to Ole to say, he's to blame

I didn't see it but how does what you've described there indicate he was blaming Ole?

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I didn't see it but how does what you've described there indicate he was blaming Ole?

I was just fecking round. I think as the fans were booing Ole, I think Bruno was saying blame the players, not Ole

 

[Jeppers7]

You hit the nail on the head with regard to expectation. Pogba was bought for a club record feed and paid stupid money and given time to settle and every opportunity to show the type of form he had for Juve and France. He was accommodated and swapped partners and positions and pundits far and wide spoke about why UTD, the manager, the players, could not get the best out of him...notwithstanding the fact that him and his agent court attention and play the media like no other and refuse to diffuse any tensions around his relationship with managers or long term tensions at the club. He seeks attention by expressing himself in the way he does but does not back it up on the pitch...So while I respect his immense immense talent and ability...I think you reap what you sow...if he conducts himself differently, shuts up his agent, accepts criticism for his lazy performances and perhaps learned to adapt to a league where he has to play quicker and track back consistently then we wouldn’t be having this discussion...but he hasn’t done that and for a player looking for €400k per week or whatever- shame on him because what part of him looking in the mirror thinks he is playing at a level even close to a €400 k per week???? Mourinho had him pegged...so did Ferguson.

On the other hand, Bruno cost half the money and earns a third the salary...yet he didn’t need to settle into a new league even though he was coming from a farmers 5 aside in comparison to the PL...he made DVB and Fred and Werner and Havertz and Keita and now even Sancho look like fuking liars by needing so long to “adapt” cause he just kept doing what everyone expected him to...we got what we paid for...and in keys stats alone (Which may be an unfair metric due to positional differences but none the less a metric with which impact on the team can be measured singularly) he slaughters Pogba’s output in less than half the time...he is never injured and runs a like his life depends on it...he is the antithesis of Pogba’s attitude...and even during this horrendous run of form his chance creation has remained high as he is a high risk player. That was who we bought-we expected a high risk high reward player who
Lost possession but created relentlessly. We all saw his stats and we all knew that’s why NO ONE else was in for him...he is too wasteful for Klopp or Pep! but Bruno has done more or less exactly what it said on the tin while reinvigorating the whole team when he joined and showing a child like tenacity on the pitch we hadn’t seen in a Utd shirt since Rooney. He has been muck of late but his profile is to get the head down and work harder- and diffuse shit in the media as soon as it comes out...not to allow his agent to stir the pot.

Most of all...when the chips are down...and we have our backs to the wall and are being pummelled or need a late equaliser or winner...only oneof those two players is everywhere on the pitch closing down, CALLING for theball, shouting at team mates and at least trying to make something happen (even if his final product is off) the other plods around looking for someone else to take responsibility...I know which one I would want to be playing alongside and considering what Pogba himself thinks he is worth...that is shameful and it’s no wonder Roy Keane and other top midfielders of yester year question his application so often.

and finally...player of the EL...why yes, quite the achievement...or is it that he is the biggest name in the tournament with the most marketable Global presence to raise the trophies profile and show that it’s worth watching??? He was in his BOLLOX player of the tournament and stood out in exactly NONE of our really tame and limited performances against European cannon fodder. Truthfully - what game did he shine in? He is getting paid Messi and Ronaldo money and yet plays like Jonjo Shelvey on a good day...That cup was a Mourinho master class with several Utd players carrying out their instructions to a tee to allow us to win the thing...Pogba was part of that butname me the magical performances he put in that won him the award?

let’s leave it there...I like Pogba and love to see him boss other players like they are kids, swotting them away as he strides forward with purpose...but overall I see him for what he is...a flop. We expected and paid for much more but his own attitude and his choice of agent let him down. The pace of the league doesn’t suit him...I hope he goes back to Italy. On the other hand, Bruno for me has built up credit and deserves some loyalty...I expect him to get back to somewhat near his best but to be hanging him out to dry so soon...I just won’t do it.

You don’t like Pogba. That’s absolute nonsense. At least be honest about that. Your entire post shows that and your refusal to accept any achievement. Also jumping straight in with personal slights just because someone rates him.

As for Bruno, when he does anything that makes the team successful then he will get preferential treatment from me.

 

[roonster09]

You don’t like Pogba. That’s absolute nonsense. At least be honest about that.

Pot kettle Black

 

[Idxomer]

He's gonna find it difficult with our next permanent manager.

 

[PoTMS]

He's been shite for a long, long time now but deserves the benefit of the doubt seeing as he is the only reason Ole lasted this long.

 

[Bestie07]

Bruno will pose a huge dilemma for our next manager. His form is partly what got Ole the full time gig here, and his drop of form has caused massive issues that has led to Ole's departure.

He is the reason we are having to play the 4231 system when we don't have a single player capable of playing in the midfield two behind him. We are unable to control a game against any opposition at all because he is so careless with possession. One of the biggest complains I had with Ole was his refusal to drop Bruno to the bench (or play him as a striker) and play with a midfield which allowed us to take control of a game.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He's gonna find it difficult with our next permanent manager.

Or maybe not. A more reigned in Bruno can still have a big part to play but the kamikaze one we've been witnessing all too often wasn't doing the team any favours even if his numbers suggest otherwise.

 

[Foxbatt]

When Bruno is not on form he is a horrible player to have in the team. I feel he needs to reset and get back to basics. He’s trying too many things that just is not working and is causing a lot more harm than good at the moment as we cannot defend.

Once we get back to having a half decent defence and protection from midfield, we can afford to have him in the team.

This is because no player actually wants to lose a match. When things don't go right they look at the coaches to get it right. When they cannot get it right then the players try to do things on their own. This actually makes it much worse. This is what I feel is happening to Bruno. He has lost faith in the coaching and so trying to do things on his own.

 

[BluesJr]

Needs to really learn how to balance his risk taking with safe play otherwise he won’t survive.

 

[Red_toad]

Hes a very emotional player. I think he lost belief in Solskjaer long ago and while the work ethic remained, he became much more uncontrolled and tried forcing shit way too much and got a lot worse as a result.

Dropped off massively once we signed Ronnie, I don’t think being in his shadow is good for him.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Under a coach who will control him i.e. drop him when he loses positional discipline I think he could be world class and consistent. He’s perfect for a more advanced CM, has the workrate, can tackle and is technical enough.

Donny as 8, him at 10 and then play Fred behind as a pure limited 6. That will be functional and good enough to dominate most teams if we sort our positional game out when in possession.

 

[Jeppers7]

Pot kettle Black

I do like Pogba?

 

[roonster09]

I do like Pogba?

"I like Bruno, my second fav player but"

 

[eire-red]

When he dropped deeper and him, Matic and DvB started to play as more of a trio, we looked a lot more balanced. Under Zidane, could he turn Bruno into a Modric-type playmaker?

Could DvB play the B2B role? We just need to sort out a holding midfielder... I really don't know, but for 15-20 mins we had a grip on midfield and actually looked like a team until the red.

Trying to pull some positives from yesterday... If that's possible.

 

[jem]

When Bruno is not on form he is a horrible player to have in the team. I feel he needs to reset and get back to basics. He’s trying too many things that just is not working and is causing a lot more harm than good at the moment as we cannot defend.

Once we get back to having a half decent defence and protection from midfield, we can afford to have him in the team.

I like him, but I think one of the first things that should happen is Bruno losing his undroppable status (frankly no player on this team merits it.) Donny could definitely offer something different from time to time.

 

[Jeppers7]

"I like Bruno, my second fav player but"

Can you find me anything where I have criticised Bruno personally? Or when he’s played well and I haven’t said he played well? It’s a player performance thread, sorry if I feel he’s been poor since January that’s my opinion on his performances. Is he still my second favourite player? Not at the minute but he’s one of the players when in form I most like to watch and the one player when you’re at the game that you can see have an influence on the team overall when he’s on it. I think that’s pretty consistent with my posts and it’s a massive jump from that to saying Pogba has had only a handful of decent performances, talking about barbers, dancing, downplaying his role in EL etc.

 

[spiriticon]

I love Bruno but if we get Ten Hag or a similar manager, he's fecked.

He has no place in a team trying to play progressive, possession based football.

 

[captaincantona]

Can you find me anything where I have criticised Bruno personally? Or when he’s played well and I haven’t said he played well? It’s a player performance thread, sorry if I feel he’s been poor since January that’s my opinion on his performances. Is he still my second favourite player? Not at the minute but he’s one of the players when in form I most like to watch and the one player when you’re at the game that you can see have an influence on the team overall when he’s on it. I think that’s pretty consistent with my posts and it’s a massive jump from that to saying Pogba has had only a handful of decent performances, talking about barbers, dancing, downplaying his role in EL etc.

Having a humorous take on things does not lessen the relevance of an opinion...you are obviously not his barber...

however, I have asked you to name the performances in the EL that warranted his POTT award. I happen to believe that’s a nonsense to just point at something like that as proof of anything. Like pointing at us finishing second last season as a sign of improvement when if anyone actually watched us they would know we were still quite a poor side. So go on...EL magic from Pogba...player of the tournament performances...name them?

In addition, who said he had only a handful of good games? You see you are making up arguments against Pogba that are not being made. I have said that he has been given much more opportunity than Bruno to justify the leeway he has been given, his transfer fee, his wages, the disruption his agent causes, his open flirting with RM...all could be tolerated if his performances justified such behaviour...they haven’t...he has been entirely underwhelming at Utd and you have yet to prove any different. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t played well sometimes...just not well enough when you consider his incredible ability...we have seen almost nothing of that quality consistently in red shirt...That doesn’t mean I don’t like him...I just don’t want him pacified and rewarded with a huge new deal when he had shown that Over his 5 years here he has offered very very limited and unremarkable returns for the investment....I hope he leaves as I think his wages alone could find 2 much more fitting players for what we need.

and my central point which again you ignored is that considering the positive displays and attitude and commitment we have seen from Bruno in his short Utd career to date...he doesn’t deserve to be thrown under the bus just yet.

All very reasonable...only a bias person would interpret what I have said otherwise...unless you actually studied to be a barber and never made the ‘cut’...and I touched a nerve...( lighten up)

 

[lsd]

Regardless of what you think of Ole, that is the type of player you want in your team.

I noticed Donny urging Ole to walk away at the end too when Ole was looking back to the fans